OSSR: Heroes of Horror

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OSSR: Heroes of Horror

Post by RobbyPants »

OSSR: Heroes of Horror

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This book was, for quite some time, my favorite D&D splat. I think I liked it mostly for some ideas that I didn't often see in any other D&D books, even though I never really utilized anything in here. This book is a lot of fluff, and most of the mechanics listed are either geared deliberately toward the theme of the book (of course) or suggested alterations on existing mechanics. A lot of the fluff and advice can be found in countless articles and blogs online; and most it is pretty system agnostic. In fact, a lot of it runs counter to standard D&D games, and, frankly, falls apart in a standard D&D game.

So, that being said, lets delve into a D&D book that focuses pretty hard on playing not-D&D!



Introduction:

This is a one page blurb that gives a one paragraph outline of each chapter, and devotes two paragraphs toward describing 3.x's third attempt at a taint system. I'll get into taint more later, but given this book's love of grey-and-grey morality (also, more on that later), it seems really weird. We have a suggested rules changes to make alignment less deterministic, all while using a system that has very real consequences for [evil] acts, areas, and monsters.

They don't get into the authors until the end, but I might as well mention them up front. We've got James Wyatt, who is apparently the only D&D author. Joining the WotC team are Ari Marmell and C.A. Suleiman. I know nothing about either of them, except this is the first D&D book they each worked on.



Chapter 1: Dread encounters

We start out with an italic story about three of the iconic characters getting ready to right vampire spawn, but they're all DARKER and EDGIER than normal. Tordek's obviously been affected by taint (he has green flames in place of his sockets), and Mialee apparently needs to cut herself to get blood for her spells. Lidda's already out for the count, but I'm sure she's got lots of eyeliner and piercings, or something. Anyway, the vampire spawn get out of the way revealing that their master is (dun dun DUN), their old cleric pal, Jozan.

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The idea's actually not bad. It seems odd to include the detail about Mialee taking a rather suboptimal prestige class from Complete Arcane, but whatever.

This chapter bounces around with a lot of headings about different things, but ultimately linked to introducing horror into the game. I suppose it's a good place to start. This chapter has lots of fluff to hopefully draw you into reading the rest, but the it is otherwise quite schizophrenic.


Stand-Alone Encounters

From what I am told, the stand-alone encounter is "the Platonic ideal of horror gaming".

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Something like that.

What they're getting at is it's easier to be spooky for a little bit of time rather than a long time. As I find out later in the chapter, a "single encounter" is actually one or two pages of background text before the actual fight. It makes sense that you have to build up to it, but it's not the first thing that pops into my mind for "encounter".


Setting the Stage
We get some good advice about how this is really going to work if the players are on board with this. If everyone's always cracking Monty Python jokes, it's hard to run a horror game. You don't often see DM-player relationship advice in D&D books, so it's a nice change of pace. They suggest using dim lighting and/or music to set the atmosphere. I've never actually tried this, so I guess it depends on the group.


Creating Horror
Some more good advice on pacing and gradual reveals. The idea is to build tension slowly, with a few breaks here and there. We get an example story about the PCs investigating a house, getting increasingly creepy details before finding the mutilated bodies of the homeowners. They leave most of the dismemberment out, and they mention that heaping gore on gore can actually hinder things.

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Feels like D&D, but not very spooky.

Another idea is to hit the players with the realization that the conclusion of the adventure is just the beginning of something worse. Thankfully they very explicitly state not to do this very often.


Horrific Ideas
We get four broad categories of things that can be used in horror, some better than others.

The Unknown: This idea is pretty good in abstract, but doesn't work too well for D&D. You use a monster the players don't know, to help minimize them from thinking of the monster like a stat-block that can be defeated with tactics and d20s. The book even mentions using obscure books to confound the players. How this interacts with the PCs making the appropriate Knowledge checks is wholly unstated.

The Unforgivable: Basically, the idea is to attack friends or loved ones of the PCs. This certainly can up the ante, but most of my players have a history of rolling badass loners. I can only see this type of tactic exacerbating the issue.

The Unexpected: Here, we throw unexpected consequences at the players after a session of murder hoboing. This can certainly go a long way to enforcing a grey-and-grey morality, and would have to involve a break from the norm of stabbing things and taking their shit. The specific example they use is pretty nice (stopping the BBEG from killing people, only to find out he's been sacrificing them to hold back a greater evil). Of course, if done wrong, or too much, the game devolves into Metal Gear Solid, where you realize at the end that the only winning move is not to play. Fffffff----

The Unthinkable: This is a specific call-out to grey-and-grey morality. Later chapters will include optional alignment rules, for obvious reasons.


Creepy Effects
We're treated to a good page-and-a-half table of creepy things. The book explicitly says not to linger on any of these for too long; they're just for mood setting. Knowing my players, any deviation from the norm will result in 45 minutes of Search checks, investigations, and going off the trail to figure out what the fuck is happening. I guess know how ADD your players are before using any of these.

Some are very mundane, that could be used to good effect (a wolf howling, a single window of a fine house boarded up for no obvious reason, or fog). The problem with a lot of them is that they could indicate the presence of an invisible creature and/or magical effect (flames flicker with no wind, hearing moans under ground in a cemetery, or footsteps echo with no obvious source). I can tell you damn well what my players would do: they'd spend 45 minutes looking for that non-obvious source, then get pissed at me for having the (obviously real) threat escape with no dice rolls or chance of being caught.


The Villain of a Horror Encounter
We get a list of around a dozen different monsters and villains from various books and movies. Anyone from Grendel to the Terminator. We also get "just about every James Bond" villain, noted for their "over-the-top" antics.

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Witness the horror


Inside the Numbers
The first bit of advice here is to throw the PCs against a monster with a much higher CR than they can handle, and count on the players metagaming, so they'll get scared. Strictly speaking, I see what they're getting at, but I see this ending in one of three ways:
  • The players don't get it and the PCs all die.
  • The players get it and run, but don't come up with a way to defeat the monster, possibly leading to confusing or anger.
  • The players know exactly how dangerous a troll is at 1st level, run away screaming, and come back on horses with flaming arrows and kite that motherfucker into oblivion.
I guess the first two are a type of horror, but it seems like third scenario is the only one with any resolution. I guess only use this if you want the PCs to run for a narrative reason, or want a break from the actual horror part of the session.

There's also stuff about doing unorthodox things to throw people off, and some good advice about putting the PCs in unusual and hindering environments. Of course, most of the environment challenges listed are very low level. The notable exception is the DM's ever-favorite rule-breaking Antimagic Field, cuz reasons.

This actually brings up a rather important point about the book: most of the advice seems geared toward low-level adventures. Since we've known for years that D&D doesn't really function at high-level, it's not surprising that affects horror campaigns. Still, the book has a, perhaps deliberate, reluctance to discuss this. There's a bit in a later chapter about ways to alter certain types of magic to better suit a horror game, but they don't really ever deal with the sheer myriad of problems a 10th level caster can just solve in any given six seconds.


Unusual Villains
This is more of a list of different types of scenarios you can use to add urgency or dread to an adventure. We get countdowns, weird body horror, being trapped, and any of the above, but also with a monster.


Villainous Traits
Just over a page list of random physical traits or mannerisms to make villains more off-putting. This is a lot like Fields with Style in the Tome of Fiends, but typically smaller effects.

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"I dunno. Should we trust him?"


Sample Encounter: to Grandmother's House
This isn't so much of an "encounter" as about a full page setup followed by a pretty brief encounter. The basic idea is that there is a cottage eight miles out from the town. Finding this cottage involves a DC 10 Search or Survival check, or the help of a local. A whole bunch of kids have gone missing (several, recently) and the PCs are going to investigate! The exact number of missing kids isn't stated, but apparently no one in the town has been able to track them this whole time.

On your way to the house, things get spooky (hearing the sounds of crying kids instead of animals in the woods, seeing the reflections of screaming kids in the lake). The optional taint rules are in effect, the closer you get to the place; the lingering evil around here is causing all of this fucked up shit.

Once you get there, you find out that a grey jester (new monster in the book) has been draining kid's Cha scores and turning them into slaves, all while a green hag eats them while they're still alive. You're encouraged to try and subdue the kids, who will otherwise fight to the death, even if the other monsters are slain. I could see this being a good horror encounter, if run well, apart from the whole "no one else found them the whole time" part.


Sample Encounter: Annalee's Baby
A baby! We know this one's gonna be edgy!

So, for whatever reason, the PCs arrive at the village of Eastbrook. The map looks almost exactly like a beetle. I'm guessing that's on purpose, but the layout of the 20 or so buildings isn't really important. The PCs note that there is no one on the street, except for one person rushing to church. They're all urged to come along. It turns out that there's a ghost haunting the place, trying to kill his still living wife and baby. What an asshole! Time to kill a ghost!

We're given some backstory on this ghost, Jonah. When living, he was a researcher and scribe who had to work overtime to provide for the baby that was on the way. How a village with 20 buildings supports a job like that is beyond me. It turns out, the real asshole in this story is the baby (dun dun DUN!), which is actually an unholy scion (new monster in the book, which of course features a baby monster, but at least it's not that fucked up atropal scion shit). It turns out sometimes fetuses can get possessed, or something, and even control their pregnant mother. The dad sensed something was wrong, and the supergenius evil fetus sensed that, so she made her mom beat herself up and tell the cops her husband beat her. He gets killed in the arrest when he resists, and that's that.

Fast-forward to the PCs being here. The baby is now born, but still an infant. The ghost is actually still researching how to stop his unholy asshole kid at the time the PCs have been sent to kill him. Just to keep things interesting (read: possibly unwinnable), Jonah gets pissed at being interrupted, and somehow confuses the PCs for the guards who killed him. I guess he gets a DC 15 Will save to stop being delusional, followed by a second save if the PCs choose not to fight the ghost they were sent to kill who is currently fighting them. So, it seems that barring some lucky rolls and/or very non-murder-hoboy behavior from the PCs, you're probably getting the bad ending on this encounter. I guess, on the plus side, ghosts come back a few days later, so they can repeat this process until they somehow figure it out.

Once they get Jonah to talk to them, he tells his side of the story, yet he doesn't have any actual evidence. So, the good ending is the PCs have to figure out if they are going to trust a ghost they were sent to kill who attacked them about killing a baby cuz he says so. The book rightfully mentions that this is a pretty fucked up scenario. It's all left deliberately open-ended, because of course it is.

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Because of course Google image wouldn't fail me!


New Demigod: Cas
We get a new demigod at the end of the chapter: Cas, the demigod of spite. He's essentially a moose minotaur focused around holding unhealthy grudges, and he gets name dropped throughout the book pretty much any time we need someone being extra fucked up. He's also the reason that baby was all evil in the last section. The pregnant mother spruced up Jonah's study, but it turned out that it used to be a shrine of Cas. I cannot fathom how fucked up life must be in Heroes of Horror D&D. You spend too much time in sprucing up your man cave only to have your unborn baby go crazy and get psychic powers.

Anyway, the art on him is actually pretty badass. Toward the end of 3.5's life, a guy by the name of Draaken started doing some of their art. His style is particularly suited for this book.

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This is the only picture I could find of him, but now I get to call him "Scary Moose" until the end of time.

Cas gets the domains of Destruction, Pain (BoVD), Spite (new to this book, of course), and Strength. He's neutral evil, and seems to exist to make your D&D villains less accountable, or maybe more tragic.



Next up: Dread Adventures!
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Post by OgreBattle »

Can you talk to the evil baby, or diplomance it in any way?
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Post by koz »

Ari Marmell is the smarm-gargler who designed the Shadowcaster in Tome of Magic. Don't trust him with writing any further than you can throw him.
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Post by RobbyPants »

OgreBattle wrote:Can you talk to the evil baby, or diplomance it in any way?
its in the church with its mother, so you certainly could, but I'm going to assume anything savvy enough to get its mom to beat herself to blame her father is smart enough to play the role of "cute baby". As for Diplomacy, it knows common and has an Int of 3+, so I imagine you could roll in and make it friendly or helpful with a good enough roll.

I've been calling this thing "super genius", but I actually have no idea what its Int score is. All I know is it gets Int +6, even in utero, but D&D has never really qualified the ability scores of babies, let alone fetuses. Special power-wise, its mother is under a constant Charm Person and will go to great lengths to protect her child, it can see through her senses instead of its own at will, and it gets Charm Person/Animal 3/day. This is actually a template that can be used on adults, but the unholy scion in question is a baby.
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Post by Krusk »

Ari Marmell used to post online and discuss rules and stuff, until worc banned their writers from doing that sort of thing, under the name "mousefaratou".

You could probably find some way to find posts by him places and form an opinion. I dont really have one, and while he did write shadowcaster, i also assume wotc had a lot of interferance on the new base classes and made sure they were shitty for undetermined reasons.
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Post by Slade »

I assume a baby till grown up'd is Int 2 (since babies are sentient like an animal, and everyone assumes babies aren't evil like animals).

So add Int 6 to get 8, you get a slightly retarded normal human (standard deviated from 10). Which fits with a baby in charge. Not the brightest thing, but not a moron.
Heck, in elite array, most adult Fighters are same Int.

But, the book doesn't say so we are left to wonder.
Last edited by Slade on Wed Aug 03, 2016 2:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by CapnTthePirateG »

koz wrote:Ari Marmell is the smarm-gargler who designed the Shadowcaster in Tome of Magic. Don't trust him with writing any further than you can throw him.
In his defense he did write a set of fixes after myself and others complained about how crap the class was on EnWorld.

They are not good fixes, but that gets points in my book.
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Post by Username17 »

Ari Marmell over represented himself and misrepresented himself many times. He was part of that weird ass pre-4th edition thing where he got some of his friends to pretend to be "won over" by 4th edition only to have it later be revealed that paid shills were involved. He was one of the writers on Tome of Magic, his subsequent claims to have been the writer of the Shadowcaster are probably exaggerated.

C. A. Suleiman has an extensive - but terrible - body of work over at White Wolf. He's one of the people who wrote fill-in material during White Wolf's shovelware period around the point of winding down the old world of darkness and gambling the company on the new world of darkness.

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Post by hyzmarca »

RobbyPants wrote:
OgreBattle wrote:Can you talk to the evil baby, or diplomance it in any way?
its in the church with its mother, so you certainly could, but I'm going to assume anything savvy enough to get its mom to beat herself to blame her father is smart enough to play the role of "cute baby". As for Diplomacy, it knows common and has an Int of 3+, so I imagine you could roll in and make it friendly or helpful with a good enough roll.

I've been calling this thing "super genius", but I actually have no idea what its Int score is. All I know is it gets Int +6, even in utero, but D&D has never really qualified the ability scores of babies, let alone fetuses. Special power-wise, its mother is under a constant Charm Person and will go to great lengths to protect her child, it can see through her senses instead of its own at will, and it gets Charm Person/Animal 3/day. This is actually a template that can be used on adults, but the unholy scion in question is a baby.
Put a helm of opposite alignment on it. Problem solved. Everyone lives happily ever after. Except the ghost, obviously, because he's a ghost.
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Post by Ancient History »

Wasn't Cas the lieutenant of Vecna? Or am I thinking of a different of a different Cas?
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Post by hyzmarca »

Ancient History wrote:Wasn't Cas the lieutenant of Vecna? Or am I thinking of a different of a different Cas?
Kas, with a K. Totally different guy.
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Post by Ancient History »

My bad, carry on.
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Post by RobbyPants »

Chapter 2: Dread Adventures

The last chapter focused on introducing some basic concepts and doing a single horror encounter. This chapter is geared toward an entire adventure. If you guessed that the next chapter is devoted to horror campaigns, you're right! There is some good stuff in here, such as focusing on an overall mood for your adventure, rather than just throwing a bunch of "horror encounters" together back to back.


Horror Adventures in Nonhorror Campaign
This short blurb gives a few reasons/ways to use horror adventures in otherwise non-horror campaigns. We have:

Driving Home the Villain's Malevolence: This one doesn't really scream "horror" to me, but you're supposed to make the villain do worse stuff than he has so far. They say if your descriptions make the players uncomfortable, that you're doing it right (um...), but then they go on to reverse that and say not to overdo it and to respect your player's comfort level. I think this goes with what was said in the last chapter about getting everyone on board (so they presumably have a higher-than-normal tolerance for discomfort), because otherwise this is completely contradictory.

Ensnaring the PCs into a Story Hook: Make your plot hooks pack some sort of emotional punch.

Humbling the Players: This one seems to go against any bit of good DMing advice I can think of. Again, in the last paragraph, they warn against overdoing it because people will get pissed. Despite the initially awkward advice, it's nice to see the book repeatedly warn DMs of things that might piss off their players.

Simple Change of Pace: Obvious enough.


Designing a Horror Adventure
This is actually a pretty big section compared to the others, so far. It starts out talking about the mood of the adventure. This is in and of itself not the actual plot, but the mood you want to convey. There's a pretty long list, with each item getting about a paragraph devoted to it. We get things like claustrophobia, eeriness/incongruity, helplessness, self-loathing, and spiraling despair. I've always found this section interesting to pick for ideas, although the self-loathing one seems like it could really ruin the experience for the players if done poorly.

Next, we get to the setting, and how that interacts with a horror adventure. There's some pretty good advice in here to help DMs use the setting to move the plot forward, and to help it all make sense.

The book gets into plot, why it's important, and that you can't easily run a horror sandbox. We're also told not to railroad the shit out of the players, because railroading DMs are the second worst kind.

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Dick.

There are several paragraphs that tell the DM to know the motivations of the PCs and NPCs, and to extrapolate what will happen as things progress. The DM should be able to adapt on the fly as the players do things they didn't expect. Basically, this is the same stuff the DM should be doing anyway, but make it more spooky.

There is a brief section about mysteries in a horror game. They say that an in depth look is beyond the scope of the book, but devote a few paragraphs to some genuinely good mystery D&D advice. Use lots of clues (more than you think you should) because the players never see the grand picture that the DM does. Leave lots of breadcrumb trails, because the players are really only ever going to be aware of the one they find. Also, mix it up, so it doesn't get stale. Of course, the part that's missing is anything regarding how to handle magic in mysteries. I guess they can get away with that by declaring mysteries to be "out of scope". Well played, Heroes of Horror.

Next, we have types of villains. Each type gets one or two paragraphs. There are things like
  • The hidden danger: assassins, werewolves, and possessed victims.
  • The overt threat: boo!
  • Poor fool in over his head: hubris and magic and plot contrivances, oh my!
  • The normal person: Ed Gein gets name dropped, here.
  • The decoy: This seems almost Scooby Doo-like to me.
  • The treasonous loved one: it can make for an emotional story, and it probably also makes for an entire party of badass loners for the next campaign.
  • The evil PC: only do this with a group that won't hate each other afterward.
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There is some advice about how to run different types of villains. For example: intelligent villains should metagame (srsly). "Unstoppable" monsters should have one hard to find weakness. So, run these like puzzle monsters, but more spooky.

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RARR!

Only make the monster truly unstoppable if it's Cthulhu.

We get about ten to fifteen different motives that a villain could have. A lot are pretty mundane and straight forward. A few seem to be pretty much the same thing (enrichment is "the desire for personal gain" and self-gratification is "the fulfillment of some personal desire"). I guess word count is a thing.

Each PHB class is given three brief things that they might be doing as a villain. We get a Wayne Reynolds picture of a town being overrun by wolves, bats, and rats.

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This, but awesomer


Techniques of Terror
Now, we get some "tricks" for the DM to pull.

Splitting up the party: Cuz this always works so well and doesn't grind the game to a halt. In all fairness, they do delve into two options, and only one involves actually making half the players physically leave the room. The other is to rapid-fire switch between groups and let the players know what's happening, which can add a sort of metagame terror.

Don't show everything: Keep descriptions vague, and don't have the monster reveal itself until appropriate.

Threaten friends, allies, and loved ones: This is like the third or fourth time they've suggested this.

The evil duplicate ploy: Have a doppelganger fuck with the players in various ways. For extreme roleplayers only: have one of the PCs be replaced with a doppelganger without the player's knowledge. I'm not exactly sure how this works, but whatevs. "Oh, by the way, Fred, you need to target Jeff with that spell, and not the goblins, because you've actually been a doppelganger for the last three sessions".

Finding the Achilles' heel: This is pretty much a restatement of the whole puzzle monster thing.

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What are the odds!?



Sample Adventure: For Hate's Sake
This is billed as a sample adventure to showcase what we've seen so far, and that it's not fully fleshed out. The primary antagonist is Samuel Amad, a normal guy who's been slighted enough times to become a full-out cleric of Scary Moose, and one serious grudgelord.

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No, Google Image, not him. This guy:

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We get a background on why our asshole villain is such an asshole. A barmaid broke his heart, a rival badmouthed him, and his childhood bully is now quite successful as an adult (I guess it is the best form of revenge!). So, the obvious solution to all of this is to go to the library with a rage boner and research ancient religions until you find the one with Scary Moose. Scary Moose gave Samuel a purpose and also four levels of cleric. Even then, Samuel didn't seem to actually go out and kill anyone. All of his focus on this religion of spite somehow caused him to hate people less (WTF!?), so Scary Moose needed to step in. A bane wraith (new monster in the book) is now stalking the streets, being the asshole that Samuel couldn't bring himself to be.

These things are actually pretty hardcore, and they get some art from Draaken:

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What makes them such assholes is that if they get within 30 feet of a sentient being, they immediately know the name and appearance of every one of that person's friends and loved ones, as well as a sense of where the person believes them to be. No save (the book even calls this out; it's not an omission). It then proceeds to ability drain the fuck out of their friends, just to screw with them, and turn them into (standard MM) wraiths.

So, back to the adventure, this bane wraith has been going around killing anyone who angered Samuel (because he wasn't mad enough, himself), and is now killing other people just for the lulz. Sameul can't stop being mad enough to make the bane wraith go away (wait, I thought this thing was here because he wasn't mad enough. Also, the rules don't work that way), but he's still super pissed and isn't going to just cooperate with the PCs. I'm really confused how angry Samuel actually is.

Part 1: A rising of wraiths
The PCs start investigating some dead bodies. A DC 15 Heal or Knoweldge(Religion) check shows they died of ability drain (those skills do that?). Then, wraiths start attacking them during one of the investigations! Once the spawn are killed, the PCs draw the ire of the bane wraith. Now, their friends start dying.


Part 2: A band of assassins
Now, wraiths who used to be loved ones start attacking the PCs until they figure this out (how?). Then, the DM is to take an old adversary who wants to "take advantage of the situation" and have them send some assassins at the PCs.

Scary Moose takes advantage of the assassins taking advantage of the bane wraith, and "influences them" and their "innate hatred and violence" to have them kidnap a friend of the PCs. I guess the gods of D&D don't care about free will. Take that boring alignment debates!

We are explicitly told that if the PCs best the assassins, they're actually really useless at giving any useful information. This is supposed to be a wild goose chase (of killing friends and loved ones).


Part 3: A shrine of spite and malice
Now, we get to the shine of Scary Moose where Samuel lives. There are a few ways they might find this place listed out. One involves baiting the bane wraith with a loved one. I mean, I guess they're all gonna die anyway. You can also backtrack the murders far enough to realize they all come from the same neighborhood and find Samuel's house. Then, there are some clues there, and anyone with knowledge of the area knows that there used to be a cult of Nerull in an old warehouse. This is where Samuel built his shrine to Scary Moose. They find a hidden entrance, fight some wraiths, and then Samuel himself. He's babbling incoherently, possibly begging for forgiveness, and is so sorry and upset about his actions and hatred... that he can't stop fighting the PCs.


Further adventures
After killing the bane wraith, a bunch of wraiths, a bunch of assassins, and a variably angry lunatic, the PCs troubles might not be over! Now they've (possibly) gotten the attention of Scary Moose himself: the guy who's incapable of letting go of a grudge and is also a god! Or demigod, but still, his avatar statted out in chapter 1 is something like 17 levels higher than this adventure. Good luck, players!

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How about a nice game of D&D!



Next up: A Horror Campaign!
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Post by Starmaker »

RobbyPants wrote:A DC 15 Heal or Knoweldge(Religion) check shows they died of ability drain (those skills do that?).
Yes, this is by no means new in 3.0/3.5 adventures. Heal diagnoses, Knowledge (Religion) includes knowledge of undead.
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Post by Kaelik »

Hey Jeff, remember the last eight times you cast spells? Yeah it turns out you didn't cast those spells because you were a doppleganger the whole time so you can't cast spells. Yeah, I have no idea why the enemies were wandering around blind after you didn't cast Glitterdust either.
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Post by Koumei »

hyzmarca wrote:
Ancient History wrote:Wasn't Cas the lieutenant of Vecna? Or am I thinking of a different of a different Cas?
Kas, with a K. Totally different guy.
I was wondering, too. I was pretty sure there was a Cas and a Sword of Cas dating back to older editions, but it turns out this is Kas the Betrayer, of Sword fame:
Image

And this right here is Big Cas:
Image
And he is seven feet tall, and you Can't. Teach. That.

I have no idea how the "replace with a doppelganger without the player knowing" thing could possibly work. Even with their knowledge you still need a PC who still has abilities the doppler could arguably mimic.
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Post by Starmaker »

Koumei wrote:Even with their knowledge you still need a PC who still has abilities the doppler could arguably mimic.
...Fighter?
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Post by hyzmarca »

RobbyPants wrote: The evil duplicate ploy: Have a doppelganger fuck with the players in various ways. For extreme roleplayers only: have one of the PCs be replaced with a doppelganger without the player's knowledge. I'm not exactly sure how this works, but whatevs. "Oh, by the way, Fred, you need to target Jeff with that spell, and not the goblins, because you've actually been a doppelganger for the last three sessions".
Psychic douppleganger varient that takes on the memories, personalities, and class levels of its victims. It became too Fred and lost itself in the persona.
Last edited by hyzmarca on Sat Aug 06, 2016 12:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by RobbyPants »

Starmaker wrote:
Koumei wrote:Even with their knowledge you still need a PC who still has abilities the doppler could arguably mimic.
...Fighter?
:rofl:

I get the impression that PCs with no real abilities are the easiest to run horror adventures for. The lack of skill points might be a problem, because the various adventures and encounters presented actually do expect you to use them.

Although, the two base classes listed later in the book are both full casters, so who knows.
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Post by Josh_Kablack »

RobbyPants wrote:
Part 1: A rising of wraiths
Then, wraiths start attacking them during one of the investigations!
Wait. Wraiths - plural ?!? If a party can even survive an attack by multiple Wraiths, that party jolly well have access to Speak with Dead if not Diviniation. How the fuck does the murder investigation take longer than one day to reset spells?
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Post by erik »

Speak with Dead doesn't help a lot if the killer doesn't know why he was killed or who did it. People are getting killed by a magically disguised spirit that can kill you without you noticing via Wisdom drain.

Divination isn't a lock either but it is great fodder since you can pre-write riddle clues in anticipation. Divination outright says it gives cryptic rhymes and omens.
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Post by RelentlessImp »

I gotta say that I really like this sourcebook. It provides some actual decent advice for horror games, even if it does repeat itself, and it gave a viable arcane necromancer class, even if its class abilities post-8 are kind of crap.

The feat section is just full of bullshit, though, especially for necromancers.
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Post by RobbyPants »

I agree that it has some good advice. A lot of it could have gone into the DMG.

Just a heads up: it will probably be at least a week for chapter 3. Real life is getting in the way.
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Post by Username17 »

Koumei wrote: I was wondering, too. I was pretty sure there was a Cas and a Sword of Cas dating back to older editions, but it turns out this is Kas the Betrayer, of Sword fame:
Image
That's actually Sorin Markov. A different vampire with a giant black sword.

Kas is actually from the seventies and looks like Wolverine.

Image

-Username17
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Post by karpik777 »

FrankTrollman wrote:That's actually Sorin Markov. A different vampire with a giant black sword
Strickly speaking Sorin doesn't use a giant black sword, and that picture is some kind of fan(?) edit changing several things about him.
ImageImage
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