It was Perfect. It was Perfect again. Ready for PMK3

General questions, debates, and rants about RPGs

Moderator: Moderators

Shrieking Banshee
Journeyman
Posts: 143
Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2015 1:33 pm
Location: Space

It was Perfect. It was Perfect again. Ready for PMK3

Post by Shrieking Banshee »

Not enough PAIRS for you to play with? Your dice too small? Well prepare, for the most perfect and balanced game in the multiverse-To get perfect again!

Warmachine MKIII: If you didn't see this coming your a moron!



http://privateerpress.com/community/pri ... r-be-the-s

PP heard complaints about gender inequality, so the next editions design philosophy will be based off the Female Angler fish. It has MORE PAIRS THEN YOU CAN HANDLE!
User avatar
hogarth
Prince
Posts: 4582
Joined: Wed May 27, 2009 1:00 pm
Location: Toronto

Post by hogarth »

Sorry -- where does Popular Mechanics for Kids get involved in this story? Is this game designed by Elisha Cuthbert and Jay Baruchel?
User avatar
Kaelik
ArchDemon of Rage
Posts: 14757
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by Kaelik »

Why does this obvious Bot have 76 posts on TGD?
DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?
The U.S. isn't a democracy and if you think it is, you are a rube.

That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
Shrieking Banshee
Journeyman
Posts: 143
Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2015 1:33 pm
Location: Space

Post by Shrieking Banshee »

I was just joking. Didn't know this was the game to not be spoken of.
Koumei
Serious Badass
Posts: 13871
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
Location: South Ausfailia

Post by Koumei »

That's not the issue. We often speak of Warmahordes, often along the lines of "So what you absolutely DON'T want to do is what Privateer Press did..." There are entire threads devoted to the game being awful and the company being staffed by wank pheasants. I can't tell if you know that (the references to ALL THE PAIRS and IT WAS PERFECT NOW IT'S PERFECTER) or if basically everyone knows the problems with PP and it's basically an accepted truth world-wide.

The issue is more that... every single aspect of your post, from title to bizarre link at the bottom to general content, comes across exactly like an adbot. I would expect a discussion thread to start with a post that reads less like a spambot ad (complete with "letting the jack out of the bag and why chinese food will never be the s" (ame again?)) and more like "Okay, everyone saw this coming, they need a new round of easy money from existing players so they print a new edition. Let's talk about problems with the old one and the new one." or something.
Count Arioch the 28th wrote:There is NOTHING better than lesbians. Lesbians make everything better.
User avatar
erik
King
Posts: 5861
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by erik »

I thought it was fairly well done. *shrug* it told me PP has new edition and they're still everything they always have been.
User avatar
Maxus
Overlord
Posts: 7645
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by Maxus »

erik wrote:I thought it was fairly well done. *shrug* it told me PP has new edition and they're still everything they always have been.
Concur. It sounded like a parody of their so-called selling points.
He jumps like a damned dragoon, and charges into battle fighting rather insane monsters with little more than his bare hands and rather nasty spell effects conjured up solely through knowledge and the local plantlife. He unerringly knows where his goal lies, he breathes underwater and is untroubled by space travel, seems to have no limits to his actual endurance and favors killing his enemies by driving both boots square into their skull. His agility is unmatched, and his strength legendary, able to fling about a turtle shell big enough to contain a man with enough force to barrel down a near endless path of unfortunates.

--The horror of Mario

Zak S, Zak Smith, Dndwithpornstars, Zak Sabbath. He is a terrible person and a hack at writing and art. His cultural contributions are less than Justin Bieber's, and he's a shitmuffin. Go go gadget Googlebomb!
PhoneLobster
King
Posts: 6403
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by PhoneLobster »

Crazed ad bot seems pretty close to intended tone, and for obvious reasons.

I don't think I have much to say about PPs new edition (yes the acronym of their company name appears to be "PeePee" I don't know why we haven't made fun of that more), I won't be bothering to look into it in detail.

I just predict the following chain of events.

1) They will identify "problems" they weren't problems until just now and maybe they aren't really problems at all except that a community consensus of morons who don't even know the rules of the game they play has decided they are problems not actual problems the game is fucking perfect, but something whatever.

2) They will declare goals to fix those problems.

3) They will implement rules that will result in the direct opposite outcomes compared to their goals.

4) They will declare victory.

5) "Forum Insiders" will declare the game to be once and future perfect again.

I also predict that the steam roller format will continue to exclude the greater part of the rule set by means of ridiculously mechanic biased objectives and ever more ADHD inspired time limitations.

I predict the fan base will collectively determine that arguably the weakest factions and units in the game are the best and the strongest are the worst.

I predict an errata document larger than the core rules within six months.

I predict that while they will get the direct opposite of intended goals in general they will very specifically make rules that make the game more, not less turtley, and which favor infantry and solos ahead of jacks instead of the other way around.

I suspect that the whole hordes vs warmachine imbalance will remain entirely not on their radar at all.
Last edited by PhoneLobster on Mon Apr 18, 2016 9:37 am, edited 2 times in total.
Phonelobster's Self Proclaimed Greatest Hits Collection : (no really, they are awesome)
Shrieking Banshee
Journeyman
Posts: 143
Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2015 1:33 pm
Location: Space

Post by Shrieking Banshee »

Sorry, I once again apologize for my bizarre title. I was rushing and I should have but more effort into the post.

I mean in this forum "Play like you got a pair" is universally reviled, so my joke was that the new design philosophy will be based off the female Angler fish which has multiple pairs of testicles. I guess joke failed.

As for that phrase they are planning to remove it from the game. So yay for removing inane slogans?

Planned Changes:

A: More free points for jacks. Thats their marketing strategy to increase the minimum point count jack problem fix.

B: Jacks now generate one free focus a turn. Unless your the Convergence of Cyriss. Now they generate 3 each turn. Because thats fair when releasing newer better stuff is your solution to older problems.

C: Dead beasts now provide 1 fury a turn. This only applies too Big beasts I believe but be prepared for the giant beasts to be buffed to hell and back. Giant Beast models didn't sell well.

D: Frenzied beasts now charge the closest model and not enemies first. So slightly more risk I guess?

F: Fear effects and skill checks removed.


Thats whats been leaked so far. So yes, the game is perfect once more.
Last edited by Shrieking Banshee on Mon Apr 18, 2016 3:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Shrieking Banshee
Journeyman
Posts: 143
Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2015 1:33 pm
Location: Space

Post by Shrieking Banshee »

Because Im a crazy person with nothing better to do, I have been keeping up with the changes that PP has been doing.


Its fascinating for PP to slowly descend into the same company practices that GW was doing, and how people defend them for it despite the action being impossible evil a month ago.

Boiling frog I guess. Plus blind rabid devotion helps.
pragma
Knight-Baron
Posts: 822
Joined: Mon May 05, 2014 8:39 am

Post by pragma »

I'd love updates. I have a bunch of friends who are deep in the Warmachine scene and I'd like ammunition to needle them without developing another forum addiction.
Almaz
Knight
Posts: 411
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:55 pm

Post by Almaz »

Shrieking Banshee wrote:Because Im a crazy person with nothing better to do, I have been keeping up with the changes that PP has been doing.


Its fascinating for PP to slowly descend into the same company practices that GW was doing, and how people defend them for it despite the action being impossible evil a month ago.

Boiling frog I guess. Plus blind rabid devotion helps.
I always like to remind myself that the frog was lobotomized. It seems especially apropos to remember here.
Shrieking Banshee
Journeyman
Posts: 143
Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2015 1:33 pm
Location: Space

Post by Shrieking Banshee »

pragma wrote:I'd love updates. I have a bunch of friends who are deep in the Warmachine scene and I'd like ammunition to needle them without developing another forum addiction.

OOOOOH.

Well in that case, Il do it so you don't have too:

A: More crutch mechanics. You get even more free points to get warjacks with. Because A: More shit you have to buy, and B: PP sucks at making you take jacks normally.

B: Lots of models are finding themselves unusable in other factions (Mercs primarily). Now Cephalyx can't use lots of crys stuff so its all useless now, and certain stuff is getting their FA lowered, thus becoming paperweight models. And of course some idiots are defending these choices against angry fans.

In terms of design PP is still and flippant and stupid as ever:

They flip flop between saying that mechanics override fluff, or that design overrides fluff, or that fluff overrides mechanics.

Monstrocties are mutant humans so have the most HP out of warjacks. And Khador was promised that its MOW heavy infantry would be some of the only with 8 points of HP out of heavy infantry to make them distinct. Except the Convergence of Cyriss whos heavy infantry was already point for point better then the MOW because "They are also metal LOLZ!!!!!!". Despite the fact that other factions have armor powered by god.

PP is also still trying to balance better game mechanics (Fury) with slightly worse stats not realizing that it just means you pick the best beast and use it to maximize the fury mechanic.
Last edited by Shrieking Banshee on Tue May 17, 2016 5:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
Shrieking Banshee
Journeyman
Posts: 143
Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2015 1:33 pm
Location: Space

Post by Shrieking Banshee »

You know, the super frustrating aspect of PP design, is how slapdash it is. There is always abstract handwaving, but never any specific thought into any of their design.

I can almost see the designing shrugging and putting their hands in the air saying "I dunno.....Immovable maybe?" When designing the characters.

Recently they released the information about Jack Marshals. A way to get more Warjacks on the battlefield. But PP just can't admit that its a shitty mechanic and Hordes does it easier and better.

When I want to Run more Beasts in Hordes, I get some Paingivers or some other stuff that simply radically increases Fury Production. In Warmachine you have to jump through elaborate hoops.

You gotta connect a Warjack to another solo (Which means your extra warjack doesn't get access to the Warcasters Field marshal Ability, nor the Free Focus they now generate, and can't be cheaper under warjack points), and then that Solo dishes out some mediocre abilities, and can't run the jack to its full potential. Maybe it gets some awful drive ability as well that doesn't synchronize with anything well.

But the worst bit is how intellectually dishonest PP is with itself. Convergence of Cyriss (Or COC) is still the best Warmachine Faction because its the most fun too play. Its designed not to suffer any of the drawbacks of the core Warmachine System, which just pisses me the hell off.

Like its Battlebox Caster is one who's Warjacks regenerate (Like Hordes) and now they can also all generate 3 Focus on their own now!

Just...Goddam.
User avatar
OgreBattle
King
Posts: 6820
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2011 9:33 am

Post by OgreBattle »

So what would you propose being the mechanic for warjacks that makes them work as smoothly as hordes
Shrieking Banshee
Journeyman
Posts: 143
Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2015 1:33 pm
Location: Space

Post by Shrieking Banshee »

Well in effect, this would require balancing out spells and shit for Warmachine AND Hordes but a simple pimple satisfying solution is two separate pools of focus for Warjacks and Spells/ Defense. Maybe double the focus score, and split it in half (And again rebalance casters).

Warjacks spend focus directly from a warcaster and are not allocated it at the beginning of the turn. Although less strategic, its also less punishing. Hordes always has the option of "Buying that 1 extra attack, and I don't care if I frenzy the next turn", once again making their "Risk" mechanic more a benefit then anything, and so is the reverse! Killed a thing early? No more need of spending fury, spend it somewhere else.

Warmachine doesn't have that. If your jack runs out of Focus thats it. Tough luck. Or the reverse. Killed something early? Well fuck you buddy. You wasted focus.

Next up make the whole random damage grid thing efficient. Warjacks (And to a lesser extent beasts) are so risque because you deal 1/3rd of its health and its suddenly a deadweight. Either lost weapon, or of course the destroyed Cortex. Now your warjack can't do things a trooper can do. Honestly the Retribution of Scyrah had a better idea.

Have a linear line for a while, and then have the random stuff at the bottom. So that way the warjack runs smoothly for a while, until then dropping efficiency rapidly, instead of the complete randomness.

Next up, make warjacks/ Beasts run, charge, and do power attacks free. They already have their own innate cost of losing your primary attacks. Don't make warjacks worse then basic infantry by default.

Lastly make Trample worth ANYTHING. Either shove stuff out of the way during a trample, or make it easier to pull off. You shouldn't be able to stop a rampaging robot or beast by spreading out your infantry a little. The Warnoun should be dictating infantry placement, not the other way around.

This of course would require massive rebalancing, and changing of things, and maybe its full of shitty flaws I didn't notice. But its better then what is now!
Shrieking Banshee
Journeyman
Posts: 143
Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2015 1:33 pm
Location: Space

Post by Shrieking Banshee »

You know as cancerous as the PP fanbase on the PP forums is, its a whole new dimension on 4Chan. But I don't know what I should have expected.
Koumei
Serious Badass
Posts: 13871
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
Location: South Ausfailia

Post by Koumei »

I'm pretty sure everything is cancerous over there. What with it just being one big ball of cancer. Except the cancers sometimes fight each other* because X is both THE BEST and also THE WORST thing ever, and if you disagree with either of those positions, you are personally everything that is wrong with everything.

*Can actual cancers in living tissue do this? Is that a thing that sometimes happens?
Count Arioch the 28th wrote:There is NOTHING better than lesbians. Lesbians make everything better.
User avatar
GreatGreyShrike
Master
Posts: 208
Joined: Tue Feb 18, 2014 8:58 am

Post by GreatGreyShrike »

One paper a while back by Nagy, Victor, and Cropper suggested that cancers getting cancer and dying is why large organisms like whales don't all get cancer and die much more frequently than humans do - because it takes a much larger cancer to affect a larger animal, so there is more opportunity for the cancer to get cancer and die.
Shrieking Banshee
Journeyman
Posts: 143
Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2015 1:33 pm
Location: Space

Post by Shrieking Banshee »

Well most of the game was leaked in what looks like at least some of the finalized draft (Because it leaked accurate data before the official information came out).

Any yeah. PP fixed the game perfect. There are no flaws. Its so perfect that it hovers and glows in midair.

In all seriousness it seems like at least a step in a better direction. Still pushing models though.
Grek
Prince
Posts: 3114
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 10:37 pm

Post by Grek »

GreatGreyShrike wrote:One paper a while back by Nagy, Victor, and Cropper suggested that cancers getting cancer and dying is why large organisms like whales don't all get cancer and die much more frequently than humans do - because it takes a much larger cancer to affect a larger animal, so there is more opportunity for the cancer to get cancer and die.
I don't understand why cancer getting cancer would be beneficial to the organism at all. Wouldn't you just have two kinds of cancer at that point?
Chamomile wrote:Grek is a national treasure.
Mask_De_H
Duke
Posts: 1995
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2009 7:17 pm

Post by Mask_De_H »

Grek wrote:
GreatGreyShrike wrote:One paper a while back by Nagy, Victor, and Cropper suggested that cancers getting cancer and dying is why large organisms like whales don't all get cancer and die much more frequently than humans do - because it takes a much larger cancer to affect a larger animal, so there is more opportunity for the cancer to get cancer and die.
I don't understand why cancer getting cancer would be beneficial to the organism at all. Wouldn't you just have two kinds of cancer at that point?
You aren't getting the second cancer, which fucks with your cellular production and ultimately kills you: the cancer is getting cancer, which fucks with its cellular production and kills it. Given cancer is rampant overgrowth of screwy cells, a cancer with cancer burns itself out faster, killing both malignant growths.

Just like a dead man doesn't produce more living cancer cells, a dead cancer doesn't produce more second order cancer cells.
FrankTrollman wrote: Halfling women, as I'm sure you are aware, combine all the "fun" parts of pedophilia without any of the disturbing, illegal, or immoral parts.
K wrote:That being said, the usefulness of airships for society is still transporting cargo because it's an option that doesn't require a powerful wizard to show up for work on time instead of blowing the day in his harem of extraplanar sex demons/angels.
Chamomile wrote: See, it's because K's belief in leaving generation of individual monsters to GMs makes him Chaotic, whereas Frank's belief in the easier usability of monsters pre-generated by game designers makes him Lawful, and clearly these philosophies are so irreconcilable as to be best represented as fundamentally opposed metaphysical forces.
Whipstitch wrote:You're on a mad quest, dude. I'd sooner bet on Zeus getting bored and letting Sisyphus put down the fucking rock.
User avatar
GreatGreyShrike
Master
Posts: 208
Joined: Tue Feb 18, 2014 8:58 am

Post by GreatGreyShrike »

I am not a biologist or medical professional. My understanding as a layman is that as cancer grows, it needs to devote an increasing amount of it's growth to structural concerns like developing blood vessels and other organized behaviour of benefit to the tumor as a whole but not necessarily to each individual cell. If the tumor does not do this, the cancer will eventually die or stabilize in size because it's cells won't receive nourishment. If some of the cancer cells defect from the whole 'have blood vessels and some sort of structure' bit and just replicate completely wildly, then they can kill themselves or limit the cancer's growth before the cancer gets big enough to kill the whole organism. Tumours need a larger amount of structure and organization to grow larger sizes, so this effect would be more prevalent among larger animals because in most small animals the tumor would kill the animal before this became a problem for it.
Shrieking Banshee
Journeyman
Posts: 143
Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2015 1:33 pm
Location: Space

Post by Shrieking Banshee »

Holy crap, things are heating up. Jason soles needed to issue and APOLOGY for being a shit asshole.
Shrieking Banshee
Journeyman
Posts: 143
Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2015 1:33 pm
Location: Space

Post by Shrieking Banshee »

Shrieking Banshee wrote:Holy crap, things are heating up. Jason soles needed to issue and APOLOGY for being a shit asshole.
Also something else:

Quote Originally Posted by Asdrubael View Post
@WithScience - I agree with your feelings towards the vibe of that thread and the weird, tepid responses. But, it's the second to last insider, so they've been dealing with a pretty regular dose of asinine comments, having their abilities as designers questioned, and all kinds of snark from the community. Likewise, they got guy punched by the leaked cards. So, I'd guess that they're kind of worn down.
Soles
There is definitely some weariness going on. Yesterday felt off to us as well, like we were dealing with a lot more probing questions honed from information that we had not provided. That can get annoying. And I am sorry it showed.
Translation:

Leaked cards meant that people where informed and could ask us hard hitting questions instead of begging us for information.
Post Reply