Hands Free Culture

virgil · Post by **virgil** » Mon Apr 04, 2016 8:48 pm

Blink dogs, unicorns, ropers, etc. There are several varieties of monsters that are sentient, speak language, and lack thumbs. How debilitating is it for such creatures to integrate in a society, presuming civilization isn't so humano-centric that they'd sooner call the guards than acknowledge a manticore as having an opinion. Is the lack of social progress for a Disabilities Act enough of a hindrance to send the large majority of such creatures into the woods, the ones that remain in civilization being powerful enough to enable servants? Would a particularly magical society, able to hand out mummified elf hands like candy as prosthetic limbs, enable a more diverse society?

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Mon Apr 04, 2016 9:19 pm

Well, there's the question of whether they have any interest of integrating into humanoid culture in any significant number. If 99% of blink dogs and unicorns are totally cool with just chilling in their packs/herds in the woods and living a hunter-gatherer life, then the question becomes kind of moot.

I think the nature of the handless intelligent creature is then going to figure into things in the case of one or more wanting to be part of humanoid society. A pack of blink dogs or a unicorn probably has really good public opinion, and is useful enough, that if they don't have an actual servant, they probably have a humanoid friend willing to stay nearby them or at least be on call to help them with shit. And the culture might well be willing to make some basic accommodations. Maybe the black smith engineers an alternative door handle that can be operated by paw/hoof without getting on the nerves of the handless or the handed. If the handless community is small, shopkeepers are probably willing to accommodate, if they're large, the blacksmith (being the person most likely to have real engineering knowledge, I would think) could probably rig up a reasonably cheap mouth-operated grabber that alleviates peoples' concerns about quadruped mouth germs.

Stahlseele · Post by **Stahlseele** » Mon Apr 04, 2016 10:27 pm

In a world with magic being cheapish common . .
buy a trinket with small scale telekinesis on it for mundant stuff?

Pixels · Post by **Pixels** » Mon Apr 04, 2016 10:53 pm

That's what the "mummified elf hands" is referring to - a Hand of the Mage. It is inexpensive and lets creatures open doors and stir pots and stuff. But to be honest lacking thumbs is only the tip of the iceberg when trying to integrate species with radically different sizes, sanitation requirements, dietary requirements, and so on. Blink dogs fit pretty well because they're already very similar to creatures human society accommodates, but expecting unicorns to come inside and have a few beers is not something that your typical fantasy bar (or house) is designed to do. It would be a nightmare to design a space that is intended to be used by, say, humans, dragon turtles, unicorns, and pixies at the same time.

If you wanted to have a very interracial city, either you'd have to liberally apply magic to the problem or segregate into subsections more tailored to the size and physiology of its primary inhabitants.

RelentlessImp · Post by **RelentlessImp** » Mon Apr 04, 2016 11:09 pm

Prak wrote:Well, there's the question of whether they have any interest of integrating into humanoid culture in any significant number.

Your own Bastards & Bloodlines OSSR says that blink dogs and unicorns totally want to integrate... to bone and make adorably overpriced half-breeds.

erik · Post by **erik** » Mon Apr 04, 2016 11:23 pm

Dear ghost Virgil, you even have a MLP avatar. How dare you ignore their influence! Whether they seamlessly integrate or not is totally up to the setting. There is no reason for them to be unable beyond setting fiat.

Edit. Oh I'm not done.

Who cares if they cannot build houses or be blacksmiths? Those are skill sets I totally lack despite my thumbhandedness, but here I am in my own house that even sometimes has electricity. If you want to see videos of animals using plenty of human objects like doors, toasters or whatever then Google and the internet won't disappoint.

virgil · Post by **virgil** » Tue Apr 05, 2016 12:05 am

erik wrote:Dear ghost Virgil, you even have a MLP avatar. How dare you ignore their influence!

Equestria isn't the D&D-verse, so it's example is only really applicable for answering the question of whether a unicorn can integrate in sufficiently advanced society, where even regular ponies have some variety of telekinesis.

So it's still a legit question as to whether a typical D&D-level of magic/tech is enough to maintain a diverse set of species, and how such a society would pan out to accommodate them.

erik · Post by **erik** » Tue Apr 05, 2016 12:13 am

There is no D&Dverse. Unless you mean the specific campaign worlds in which case, well, society works the way their campaign bibles and texts say so. If your campaign world is Ponyfinder then it is totally a MLP port.

So I hold to that whether and how the non thumbed are integrated is totally up to the author. And very little tech adaptation is required, if any.

Zaranthan · Post by **Zaranthan** » Tue Apr 05, 2016 12:20 am

I think he's trying to ask about humanocentric settings like Greyhawk and Forgotten Realms.

erik · Post by **erik** » Tue Apr 05, 2016 12:28 am

Well what they have is already written. And boring. Bah humbug.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Tue Apr 05, 2016 4:17 am

Pixels wrote:That's what the "mummified elf hands" is referring to - a Hand of the Mage. It is inexpensive and lets creatures open doors and stir pots and stuff. But to be honest lacking thumbs is only the tip of the iceberg when trying to integrate species with radically different sizes, sanitation requirements, dietary requirements, and so on. Blink dogs fit pretty well because they're already very similar to creatures human society accommodates, but expecting unicorns to come inside and have a few beers is not something that your typical fantasy bar (or house) is designed to do. It would be a nightmare to design a space that is intended to be used by, say, humans, dragon turtles, unicorns, and pixies at the same time.

I guess hand of the mage works. It's half an npc blink dog's starting wealth and just over a third of an npc unicorn's starting wealth, and the dogs could probably share a few among the pack to bring the price down more if they felt they needed other swag. So it's doable. And they could totally have less icky items of at will mage hand. I'd say the 5# limit is kind of a big deal, but it's workable and unlikely to matter in day to day life.

As far as drinks go, unicorns and similar creatures could be easily served by just knocking out a wall from waist up next to the actual bar of the inn, or putting out some outside seating which humans have been known to enjoy in the real world, too. A heavily racially mixed city is going to need to be more extreme, but you can look at Zootopia for some starting inspiration at least.

RelentlessImp wrote:
Prak wrote:Well, there's the question of whether they have any interest of integrating into humanoid culture in any significant number.
Your own Bastards & Bloodlines OSSR says that blink dogs and unicorns totally want to integrate... to bone and make adorably overpriced half-breeds.

As hilarious as the book is, and as awesome as some of the crunch is, I don't consider Bastards and Bloodlines canon

Dogbert · Post by **Dogbert** » Tue Apr 05, 2016 9:29 pm

virgil wrote:Equestria isn't the D&D-verse.

Unless the MLP tabletop game Hasbro just licensed to some guys use 5E...

Ice9 · Post by **Ice9** » Tue Apr 05, 2016 10:58 pm

Collar of Perpetual Attendance (from the WotC site, but it's basically a command-word item of Unseen Servant, costs 1800g IIRC) is a much better option than Hand of the Mage if you can afford it. Lifts up to 100 lbs, which seems like enough to handle most day-to-day situations.

Dogbert · Post by **Dogbert** » Tue Apr 05, 2016 11:19 pm

I kind of want the MLP game to be a 5E reskin, and then see it make big-boy profits (unlike 5E), just to have something new to poke fun at Mearls for.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Wed Apr 06, 2016 12:29 am

Honestly, it'd be a really good idea, because for it's flaws and limitations, I can see 5e being a great intro system.

Then you teach them 3.5.

RelentlessImp · Post by **RelentlessImp** » Wed Apr 06, 2016 12:34 am

Prak wrote:Honestly, it'd be a really good idea, because for it's flaws and limitations, I can see 5e being a great intro system.

Then you teach them 3.5. fill in the gaps of the unfinished system with 3.5 rules.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Wed Apr 06, 2016 12:37 am

Or that.

ishy · Post by **ishy** » Wed Apr 06, 2016 9:59 pm

Prak wrote:Honestly, it'd be a really good idea, because for it's flaws and limitations, I can see 5e being a great intro system.

Then you teach them 3.5.

3.5 or d20 modern?

[url=http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dd/20060401a wrote:wizards article[/url]]The My Little Pony RPG uses the game system of the d20 Modern Roleplaying Game, featuring custom-designed ponies with rules for choosing a wide range of pony colors, hair styles, accessories such as “cutie marks,” and powers such as “rainbow flight” and “find-and-seek”.

Wiseman · Post by **Wiseman** » Wed Apr 06, 2016 10:07 pm

Don't know if this is particularly relevant to this thread, especially since I haven't gotten around to a "The World in General" section, but in PMDD20 pokemon come in all sorts of body types, shapes and sizes. Although they all are intelligent, many handless pokemon are content with hunter-gather lifestyles in the wilderness, though some do live in cities. Also, most buildings are build to accommodate pokemon of at least large size. Doors are also a more rare thing, with most portals covered with curtains.

Shrapnel · Post by **Shrapnel** » Wed Apr 06, 2016 10:11 pm

How does a Voltorb go hunting, then?

RedstoneOrc · Post by **RedstoneOrc** » Wed Apr 06, 2016 10:22 pm

Shrapnel wrote:How does a Voltorb go hunting, then?

By exploding ....duh...

More seriously? By rolling over pikachus' cheeks for more electabuzzez :^)

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Wed Apr 06, 2016 10:35 pm

RedstoneOrc wrote:
Shrapnel wrote:How does a Voltorb go hunting, then?
By exploding ....duh...

More seriously? By rolling over pikachus' cheeks for more electabuzzez :^)

Step 1: lie in wait for an unsuspecting pokemon with you eyes closed.
Step 2: Explode
Step 3: Wake the fuck up and eat.

RelentlessImp · Post by **RelentlessImp** » Wed Apr 06, 2016 10:36 pm

ishy wrote: 3.5 or d20 modern?
[url=http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dd/20060401a wrote:wizards article[/url]]The My Little Pony RPG uses the game system of the d20 Modern Roleplaying Game, featuring custom-designed ponies with rules for choosing a wide range of pony colors, hair styles, accessories such as “cutie marks,” and powers such as “rainbow flight” and “find-and-seek”.

You know, as bad as Ponyfinder is, at least it uses a system you won't feel like a shitheel for playing/inflicting on your players.

erik · Post by **erik** » Wed Apr 06, 2016 10:47 pm

ishy wrote:wizards article

i guess that means my avatar turned 10 years old a few days ago.

Pity that they're so stupid that they only treated the idea of MLP d20 as a joke. The only funny part of the whole thing was that they'd use d20 Modern.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Wed Apr 06, 2016 10:48 pm

Conceptually, d20 Modern could have worked. I mean, classes based on ability scores were bullshit, as were the actual specific talents, but the idea of "here is your class, you get a bonus feat from it's list every even level, and a talent from it's specific trees at ever odd" wasn't a bad one.