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maglag
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Post by maglag »

Mortal wounds are now a thing, so forcing a termie squad to take a morale check shouldn't be too hard.

And when I say big blobs, I mean big blobs. Like in AoS (where morale works pretty much like this already) you see tournament winning lists with 100 strong blobs, and 40-50 strong units aren't rare either. Without blasts/templates, you'll simply never be able to deal half of their numbers on wounds in any timely manner and they can perfectly afford to tank some d6 wounds every round, instead of running away or insta-dying to sweeping advance.

That goes doubly now that even ork armor has a chance to stop bolters and stacks with cover, so good luck grinding that blob down at range before they gets close.

You're however quite right that small units like eldar like will melt pretty fast, yes. MSU will be pretty risky.
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Post by shlominus »

30 orks suffer 7 casualties from shooting
7th edition - no moral effect
8th edition (assuming ld6) - 4,5 more orks removed

10 casualties
7th - 1,5 more removed
8th - 7,5 more removed

15 casualties
7th - 1,5 more removed
8th - 12 more removed, the unit is virtually wiped out

there will probably be a special rule for bigger ork mobs, so it might not be that bad, but it'll almost certainly be worse than 7th edition. blobs with lower toughness and/or special moral rules will quickly melt away under fire. kill half of a blob in 7th and it's usually a better than 50% chance the rest will keep fighting (and even if they flee they can rally). in 8th they will simply be gone.

i don't think comparing aos blobs to 40k blobs is useful, cause nothing we've seen so far indicates that 40k unit stats will change with the number of models in 8th edition. i seriously doubt that we will see 100 strong blobs of anything.
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Post by Voss »

maglag wrote:Mortal wounds are now a thing, so forcing a termie squad to take a morale check shouldn't be too hard.
A check? Sure. If you can reliably drop 3 mortal wounds on a terminator squad, there is a chance they lose 1 more guy on a 6. So if you can spam smite on 20+ psykers, this is indeed an easy thing. But your 'optimism' assured us this wouldn't happen.
And when I say big blobs, I mean big blobs. Like in AoS (where morale works pretty much like this already) you see tournament winning lists with 100 strong blobs, and 40-50 strong units aren't rare either. Without blasts/templates, you'll simply never be able to deal half of their numbers on wounds in any timely manner and they can perfectly afford to tank some d6 wounds every round, instead of running away or insta-dying to sweeping advance.
. So, something you made up that doesn't happen in 40k will be magical protection if people inexplicably only fire one random weapon at the big unit every turn rather than using the basic principles of focus fire. Right.
That goes doubly now that even ork armor has a chance to stop bolters and stacks with cover, so good luck grinding that blob down at range before they gets close.
Really, focus fire. Also basic statistics and averages.
Also, Good luck finding cover for entirely theoretical mega blobs that take up more space than any cover pieces GW produces.
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Post by maglag »

shlominus wrote:30 orks suffer 7 casualties from shooting
7th edition - no moral effect
8th edition (assuming ld6) - 4,5 more orks removed

10 casualties
7th - 1,5 more removed
8th - 7,5 more removed

15 casualties
7th - 1,5 more removed
8th - 12 more removed, the unit is virtually wiped out

there will probably be a special rule for bigger ork mobs, so it might not be that bad, but it'll almost certainly be worse than 7th edition. blobs with lower toughness and/or special moral rules will quickly melt away under fire. kill half of a blob in 7th and it's usually a better than 50% chance the rest will keep fighting (and even if they flee they can rally). in 8th they will simply be gone.

i don't think comparing aos blobs to 40k blobs is useful, cause nothing we've seen so far indicates that 40k unit stats will change with the number of models in 8th edition. i seriously doubt that we will see 100 strong blobs of anything.
That's not really fair comparison considering that:
-Your 7th edition orks spent more points on nobz leaders and boss poles. Well duh of course a more expensive squad with leaders for better morale will fare better!
-Your 7th edition orks are taking the same number of casualities despite 8th edition orks being considerably tougher against shooting.
-You ignore the bit where the 7th edition ork survivors that reached melee will probably get punched first, then just ran over.
Voss wrote:
maglag wrote:Mortal wounds are now a thing, so forcing a termie squad to take a morale check shouldn't be too hard.
A check? Sure. If you can reliably drop 3 mortal wounds on a terminator squad, there is a chance they lose 1 more guy on a 6. So if you can spam smite on 20+ psykers, this is indeed an easy thing. But your 'optimism' assured us this wouldn't happen.
And indeed, you don't need 20+psykers to inflict a couple casualities on a termie squad.

Also the article mentioned there will be ways of reducing enemy morale.
Voss wrote:
And when I say big blobs, I mean big blobs. Like in AoS (where morale works pretty much like this already) you see tournament winning lists with 100 strong blobs, and 40-50 strong units aren't rare either. Without blasts/templates, you'll simply never be able to deal half of their numbers on wounds in any timely manner and they can perfectly afford to tank some d6 wounds every round, instead of running away or insta-dying to sweeping advance.
. So, something you made up that doesn't happen in 40k will be magical protection if people inexplicably only fire one random weapon at the big unit every turn rather than using the basic principles of focus fire. Right.
Sure if you have a table that's nothing besides clear plains where everything has perfect line of sight to everything, but I personally find such games quite dull.
Voss wrote:
That goes doubly now that even ork armor has a chance to stop bolters and stacks with cover, so good luck grinding that blob down at range before they gets close.
Really, focus fire. Also basic statistics and averages.
Also, Good luck finding cover for entirely theoretical mega blobs that take up more space than any cover pieces GW produces.
Heh, now that templates and blasts aren't a thing, bunching up your blob members inside cover is a viable tactic.

Plus, if ork big meks are famous for anything, is their kustom force fields.
Last edited by maglag on Mon May 08, 2017 12:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by shlominus »

maglag wrote:
shlominus wrote:30 orks suffer 7 casualties from shooting
7th edition - no moral effect
8th edition (assuming ld6) - 4,5 more orks removed

10 casualties
7th - 1,5 more removed
8th - 7,5 more removed

15 casualties
7th - 1,5 more removed
8th - 12 more removed, the unit is virtually wiped out

there will probably be a special rule for bigger ork mobs, so it might not be that bad, but it'll almost certainly be worse than 7th edition. blobs with lower toughness and/or special moral rules will quickly melt away under fire. kill half of a blob in 7th and it's usually a better than 50% chance the rest will keep fighting (and even if they flee they can rally). in 8th they will simply be gone.

i don't think comparing aos blobs to 40k blobs is useful, cause nothing we've seen so far indicates that 40k unit stats will change with the number of models in 8th edition. i seriously doubt that we will see 100 strong blobs of anything.
That's not really fair comparison considering that:
-Your 7th edition orks spent more points on nobz leaders and boss poles. Well duh of course a more expensive squad with leaders for better morale will fare better!
-Your 7th edition orks are taking the same number of casualities despite 8th edition orks being considerably tougher against shooting.
-You ignore the bit where the 7th edition ork survivors that reached melee will probably get punched first, then just ran over.
you are correct, i could have been more rigorous with the numbers, but in general my point stands.

i mentioned the fact that 8th edition orks will likely get some special rules, so i assumed they will spend those same points in the new edition as well. why would you assume otherwise? they will likely lose a few boyz less then i said but the fact remains that they will be removed a lot faster than they are now. we will only know specifics once all the rules and stats are out. until then approximating the numbers is good enough for me.

it's true, having a pitiful save more often has a bit of impact, but the overall picture doesn't change much. you know that. i doubt that i can agree about them being "considerably tougher against shooting". slightly tougher maybe, though we know too little to say at this point. enough to counter the effects of the new morale system? nope. definitely not.

changes to the melee rules are not part of my post and if no orks reach melee them striking first is irrelevant. the new rules make it more likely that noone will reach melee combat.

what about units without special rules like boyz? i chose orks specifically because they have such rules and t4. they last longer than other blobs! lesser targets will melt away. don't nitpick, when you can't refute the overall point. :)

btw, you mention ways to reduce enemy morale in your psyker example. guess what those abilities do to blobs. ;)
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Post by maglag »

Infantry dudes can each fire at their own target! Finally, only took 8 editions to get there!

Also new wound progression. If S=T is a 4+, if S higher 3+, only 2+ to wound if S doubles T or higher, and vice versa, so if S lower wounds on a 5+ and if half or less wounds on a 6+.

So heavy bolters and pulse guns and everything else S5 suddenly looking like they'll be the new meta as they can wound T8 on a 5+ while lascannons only do it on a 3+ now. Plasma guns and autocannons also only wound MEQs on a 3+ too.

Nurgle will be sad since lasguns and bashees and other S3 stuff wound them on a 5+ besides offering no help against S6/7 now.
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Post by maglag »

Characters can no longer join units, however they can't be targeted by guns if there's closer enemies available for shooting unless you have a special rule. Except if they have more than 10 wounds. Rowboat specifically has less than 9 wounds so he doesn't get sniped by the enemy's big guns right away. Not needing to get a bunker unit just to meatshield/babysit your commanders is pretty nice.

Commander auras now only affect units with specific keywords like a Kroot Shaper buffs only Kroot and Drazhar adds +1 to nearby Incubi to-hit rolls. So we can forget about cherry-picking commanders from one faction to buff the uber units from another faction.

GW's paranoia with deathstars does not exactly fills me with confidence since they weren't the biggest problem around. Although they were indeed quite annoying if you had a more casual army.

Heroic Intervention is something completely different now, instead of your nearby mooks jumping to save your commander, now it's your commander that can jump to help mooks that just've been charged. That seems interesting, as a choppy commander can stand by to help ranged squads.

Also some Imperial Guard bits. Leman Russes are T8 with 12 wounds and lose speed when below half health.

Commissars will limit the number of casualities you can take from morale checks, so yes, infantry blobs looking pretty good. Predicting now orks will get something similar.

Ratlings can fire directly at characters regardless of other units in between. So probably other sniper units will be able to do it too. Taking snipers of some kind may become a lot better depending on how good characters end.

Orders are now passive abilities without need of rolls, but can only keep one at a time. Also Rapid Fire 2 means 4 shots, just like I predicted earlier.
Last edited by maglag on Wed May 10, 2017 2:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Stahlseele »

Characters can no longer join units, however they can't be targeted by guns if there's closer enemies available for shooting unless you have a special rule. Except if they have more than 10 wounds. Rowboat specifically has less than 9 wounds so he doesn't get sniped by the enemy's big guns right away. Not needing to get a bunker unit just to meatshield/babysit your commanders is pretty nice.
but wait . . does that mean the bigger and tougher a unit is the easier it is to take down, because everybody and their mom can shoot at them if in range, no matter what is between them?
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Post by maglag »

Stahlseele wrote:
Characters can no longer join units, however they can't be targeted by guns if there's closer enemies available for shooting unless you have a special rule. Except if they have more than 10 wounds. Rowboat specifically has less than 9 wounds so he doesn't get sniped by the enemy's big guns right away. Not needing to get a bunker unit just to meatshield/babysit your commanders is pretty nice.
but wait . . does that mean the bigger and tougher a unit is the easier it is to take down, because everybody and their mom can shoot at them if in range, no matter what is between them?
Only for characters. You can still focus fire dreads and rhinos just fine if they aren't hiding behind some big piece of terrain. Although that isn't exactly new. 6th and 7th edition were infamous for the fact that you if brought a single big unit, they would be sniped first turn pretty easy. That was a pretty big weak point for 40K Rowboat since he couldn't join units and could only footslog through the field.

From GW's facebook page there seems to be some suggestions Hiveguard will be able to cover for nid commanders.

Also Magnus is mentioned in the article as having 12 wounds and an invulnerable save, so maybe he gets to live be a fire magnet for 1 round.

Also from facebook, challenges are gone, and everybody rejoiced.
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Post by OgreBattle »

Man a squad of fire dragons with a flamer Exarch will be ultra murderous. Encouraging people to stick anti-infantry and anti-tank guns in the same unit is a good direction.

I was wary on the armor mods returning but with lascannons only being -4 and boltguns not even giving a -1 it seems armor will still matter.

In comparison this makes Shadow War Armageddon feel significantly crappier.

With weaponskill being a set "hit on X+" I wonder if "in assault you have an inv sv of X+" will make up for characters meant to be evasive fighters, like a parrying Dire Avenger Exarch.

The new wounds system is... interesting and my judgement largely depends on how the strength and toughness of stuff turns out to be.

Maybe we'll get s5 ap-1 heavy bolters facing off against s6 ap- shurikannons.


Here's an 80's illustration of Eldar giant robots beating the shit out of stuff

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Post by Judging__Eagle »

maglag wrote:Infantry dudes can each fire at their own target! Finally, only took 8 editions to get there!
Wow. I knew it was a "time-saving" factor in the 2e->3e change when squads were limited to single targets, but it led to weird examples in actual gameplay (1 person in a squad firing a weapon, while the rest don't; even if there are valid targets for both).
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Post by maglag »

OgreBattle wrote: Maybe we'll get s5 ap-1 heavy bolters facing off against s6 ap- shurikannons.
Seems like so, since Heavy Bolters indeed have penetration 1 now.

Also twin-linked means double shots now. Tyranids and Tau rejoice. And eldar too. Orks pretty happy as well.

And combi-weapons can use either mode every turn. Or you can fire both on the same phase in return in return for -1 to hit. Need to hammer the math on that, but this alone may make chaos termies great again. Sternguard just had an empragasm. Orks also can spam combi weapons pretty easy although shooting at 6+ to hit may not be the most kunning of plans.

Meltaguns have penetration 4, inflict 1d6 wounds, or roll twice and take the best result if target is whitin half range. I think this may be the first re-roll mechanic we've seen in the previews, was starting to get worried.

Another classic gun, the Battle cannon is penetration 2, fires 1d6 times and inflicts 1d3 wounds with each hit. Dice for the dice gods! Statistics for the statistic throne!

Well, all in all that's a lot more dakka than before for special weapons. Let's hope GW did some half-decent math on costs and stuff or this may end up turning an even shootier edition than before.
Last edited by maglag on Wed May 10, 2017 11:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Voss »

Battlecannons are suddenly anti-vehicle, anti-characters, and worse against infantry.

Weird effect of all this firepower (especially the twinlinked change): vehicle duels are going to be brutal and quick (lots of shots, high strength and AP modifiers), infantry duels are going to slog (less shots, less strength, less AP).

Even gun dreads are suddenly much better.
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Post by maglag »

Yeah, carnifexes and monstrous creatures can't tank battle cannons anymore either.

Where are you getting less shots and less stregth for infantry from? The Imperial Guard Article said that Rapid Fire 2 means 4 shots per dude so I would say it's pretty safe that Bolters being Rapid Fire 1 still means 2 shots per dude. And S3/4 vs T3/4 still are the same to-wound as before.

Speaking of infantry duels:
-Battlecannons had AP 3, now they're AP -2.
-Rubric marines inferno bolters were AP 3, so I bet they'll be AP -2 now.

If that is the case, then Thousand Sons may finally get their time in the sun as they shoot through cover while being more effective against termie/vehicle armor than standard bolters.
Last edited by maglag on Thu May 11, 2017 12:49 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by OgreBattle »

That's great news for Deathwatch ...template weapons just hit automatically right so a bolter-flamer is a flamer that fires extra -1 to hit s4 shots.

Too bad Eldar don't got any combi weapons, but would make a good addition for corsairs if they ever get expanded on.
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Post by Voss »

maglag wrote:Yeah, carnifexes and monstrous creatures can't tank battle cannons anymore either.

Where are you getting less shots and less stregth for infantry from?
Less shots and less strength than vehicle weapons. A lot of the new vehicles for late 6th and 7th edition had fuck tons of twinlinked crap, as did a lot of older stuff. A straight conversion means a lot of things are throwing out 10+ shots with decent base strength and AP.
A bunch of bolters, a special and a heavy weapon are seriously not worth caring about.

For example, a long range duel between tactical squads is generously going to pull off 8*.66*.5*.33=0.87 wounds, plus a plasma shot (0.37 wounds, assuming Ap -3) + plus a lascannon shot (0.47 wounds) for a grand total of 1.71 wounds. [And that is with no cover at all, so adjust that _down_ in most cases].

At close range it isn't amazingly better. (Another 1.24 wounds). So at close range with anti-marine special and heavy weapons you're seriously doing ~3 wounds. With no cover. That... sucks. That's probably 3 less bolter shots back so...it adjusts the return wounds barely any at all.


Points adjustments are going to be a HUGE deal (and something they've noticeably not talked about). With orders being automatic, guardsmen may laugh at marines all the way home. Yeah, they hit slightly less and wound slightly less, but they get double the shots at a <currently unknown> fraction of the cost. There is an easily solvable X where guardsmen pick up a big fucking 'greater than' sign and drop it with the small end pointed at marines.


@ogrebattle. Again, it's entirely down to points. how much is a deathwatch dude over a normal marine, and how much more is the combi?

Even without the stupid shit like the morale test for death and fucking mortal wounds on the basic psychic power (math exemption! nearest models die!), the tyranny of math is going to rule this edition. They better have kicked the tires on this fucker really damn hard.
Last edited by Voss on Thu May 11, 2017 1:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by maglag »

Well, GW did say they've been doing playtesting, and even got at least one 40k tournament pro player to help (the author of the faction-specific articles so far).

I guess one advantage of table wargames over table rpgs is that there's clear tournaments/pros/victory/defeat conditions.
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Post by Judging__Eagle »

CSMs decent BS means that picking between combiflamers or combimelta feels like it's decision to be made. That's a new feeling. For my own CSM terminators it used to be that flamer or combibolter were the way to give myself the most strategic choices with overwhelming tactical application. Mostly b/c deep strike teams are either going to face mass infantry or a bunch of vehicles. However hard physical limits on how many CSM terminators it's reasonable to own also showed up. Five combiflamers, or five combimeltas, suddenly feeling like good ideas is a strange feeling. Being able to use the non-bolter component more than once per game will likely make people use it at least once per game (from a usual level of 0/game).

However, I have the sneaking suspicion that all of these various dakka-favouring mechanics might not be so great in the long run. GW has gone between long and short range favouring mechincs in the past, and retracted their decisions in the writing of their next editions (e.g. 2nd ed's "faction (in)specific army lists" were meant to prevent Rogue Trader minmaxing).

Bringing back Overwatch, Section fire selection, beefing up dual-linked weapons so that they don't insult the player's intelligence, allow combi-weapons to be used as recklessly as the factions that wield them, and the rest all seem like interesting changes.
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Post by Voss »

maglag wrote:Well, GW did say they've been doing playtesting, and even got at least one 40k tournament pro player to help (the author of the faction-specific articles so far).
.
'Pro player'. Oh dear.
Do you mean the guy who organizes a tournament once a year in Vegas? Because that is a completely different thing. He's just an opinionated fucker with a small audience and an overblown sense of entitlement.

Or do you mean the guy with the online store that makes up lies for Bell of Lost Souls to promote said store?

Neither of those being on the 'play testing' docket should be reassuring.
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Post by maglag »

One makes money from people actually playing the game. The other makes money from people buying the game's pieces. If nothing else, they have the right motivations to do a good job with this. And working in Las Vegas should mean one knows a fair deal about statistics.

Plus so far they've managed to point out several of the crappiest units that nobody was using, so not too shabby.
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Post by Voss »

maglag wrote:One makes money from people actually playing the game. The other makes money from people buying the game's pieces. If nothing else, they have the right motivations to do a good job with this.
no they don't. They have the right motivations to deliberately lie to people to keep their businesses afloat for as long as possible. [and considering one has a documented history of lying to get BoLS readers to his own webstore, this isn't surprising behavior]
They don't want to see 40k crash and burn like fantasy did.


Regardless, they're simply shilling for linked products (that currently sell poorly) and dropping a few approved tidbits.
This is getting 'community voices' to sell products sight unseen in advance to bolster sales. That's all it is- scummy business tactics and exploit a couple self-proclaimed experts that will sell themselves for playtest rules.
And working in Las Vegas should mean one knows a fair deal about statistics.
What?
Are you familiar with logic at all? Living in the same city as casinos does not magically impart a knowledge of statisitcs.
Plus so far they've managed to point out several of the crappiest units that nobody was using, so not too shabby.
any random fucker who reads net lists could tell you the exact same thing.
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Post by maglag »

Rubric Marines datasheet.
-Instead of a point cost we get a "power rating", which is what will be used for the scrub noob casual modes. Hopefully we'll get a separate book with more granular point costs for more serious games.
-Basic aspiring sorceror and 4 rubrics is 8 power rating, you can add batches of 5 extra rubrics for 6 power each up to a squad of 20. Other upgrades are free on a "can take a special weapon per 5 dudes, one heavy weapon per 10 dudes, sergeant can swap staff and pistol for different versions" a la loyalist scum.
-MEQ statline as usual, except movement is 5 to represent their crappy initiative/S&P. Aspiring sorcerer movement 6.
-Inferno weapons are AP -2, just as planned. Except the soulreaper which is AP -3 along S5, awesome!
-Force weapons deal 1d3 wounds now. Staff boosts Str by 2 and has AP -1, sword doesn't boost Str but has AP -3, while Axe is a good middleground at Str+1 and AP-2. Bye bye unwieldly, you won't be missed. Also good they noticed swords were lagging behind the other options.
-Rubric marines only get a 5+ invulnerable, but in return get All is Dust that boosts their saves by 1 against damage 1 weapons. So rubrics count as termies against lasguns/bolters. Extra awesome. Heavy weaponry will hurt them more than before but I'll take the extra durability against the new guard rapid fire 2.
-They also get to ignore the -1 to hit penalty for moving and firing heavy weapons a la rentless.
-The Aspiring Sorceror is a psyker with 1 power/deny per round. That only knows a nerfed Smite aka only 1 mortal wound or 1d3 if you roll high. Really, GW? I guess it's a good way of reigning in psyker spam, but probably would've been more intuitive to make this the basic smite and then have a Greater Smite or something for non-spammable psykers.
-Units have two sets of keywords, one used for army building and other for in-game interactions. Particularly interesting is that instead of being chaos space marines, Rubric Marines are Heretic Astartes. GW keeps watching over their IPs.
-There is a mention of a "Death to the False Emprah" special rule and Icon of Flame wargear that gets no actual rules. Word is that common special stuff shared between multiple units of the same faction will only be detailed once. At least they say they'll do an effort to keep it all on the same publication instead of needing to drag multiple documents along.

All in all still feeling positive. Rubric Marines now can put up a proper fight against tanks and stuff hiding in cover and without challenges the aspiring sorceror can dish out some pain in melee. Power Rating isn't point cost but seems fairly ok at allowing you to quickly put an army together. Of course it will depend on how cheap/expensive everything is, but at 8 power cost for a basic rubric marine squad, other MEQ can't be that much cheaper. I notice a clear lack of any anti-morale mechanic, hopefully that's what "Death to the False Emprah" will do.

Oh, and Sneaky eldar too:
-Banshees mentioned as having a special ability that allows them to (almost) always stab first even if they get charged besides being one of the fastest moving infantry in the game.
-Asurman's stabbing deals mortal wounds and has an aura granting Inv saves now as part of buffing the Phoenix Lords.
-Striking Scorpion's Mandiblasters deal mortal wounds at the start of the fight phase. That sounds downright obscene to be honest. Termies, dreads, seems like motherfucking striking scorpions will chew right through them now.
-Avatar of Khaine will allow him to shrugg off "some" mortal wounds. Sure, why not? The wailing doom is S+2 in melee with AP-4 and 1d6 re-roll and take best, or S8 at ranged with the same AP and damage. That melee profile means the Avatar should 1-round pretty much any big target in melee, in particular since he should be hitting on a 2+.

Really hoping mortal wounds stay limited to uber melee units and psyker powers. Also confirmation that they aren't 100% mortal. Depending on how good the Avatar of Khaine can tank them it may make him great again!
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maglag
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Post by maglag »

First point costs. Loyalist scum basic dudes 13 points each. Remember when they costed as much as 3 guardsmen before grenades? Grav-pistol for sergeant at 7 points (which remember now you can shoot them in close combat), and the squad's most expensive upgrade is the multi-melta at a whooping 27 points. Which it's somewhat fair as now they can move and fire that sucker with BS 3 while frying through cover.

Oh, and summons come out of your army'point cost now, kinda like reserves except you have some choice on what you want to summon after the game started. This is pretty good news since it stops all the summoning chains sillyness that was going around.

GW pulls a really weak excuse to why point costs are not on the main datasheets because "saving space" and that it'll "make it easier to errata costs on the fly for balance purposes". Neither sounds really plausible, since datasheets have plenty of space for a few more numbers and that wouldn't stop publishing errata, but at least GW promising to be willing to change the point cost of stuff more regularly to fix what's broken would be a step up from the current "your army sucks, wait 1d6 years for a new codex/supplement".
Last edited by maglag on Sat May 13, 2017 12:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
FrankTrollman wrote: Actually, our blood banking system is set up exactly the way you'd want it to be if you were a secret vampire conspiracy.
Shrieking Banshee
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Post by Shrieking Banshee »

As a Non 40K player are the rules actually good? It seems like by an objective measure they seem like a nightmare.

Why is everybody in my local place excited for this?
Koumei
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Post by Koumei »

The rules are pretty bad, I mean, right here we have people arguing over the finer points of how many orks die of fright when other orks die rather than pointing out that the entire thing is fucking stupid and a basic simplification of "Man, morale is too hard to figure out, let's just make more people die" ala the "Hard to keep track of vehicle damage in Apocalypse, just make them all explode". Half the changes seem to be overreactions to other changes (remember when 4E had to trip over its own nutsack in "fixing" critical hits?).

As for why they're excited for it, either they are gullible freaks (if they still like 40k I guarantee you this is the case.), or specific words (and not general promises) have spelled out something specifically good for their specific faction and they're sure it's their time to shine now. Which really still boils down to them probably needing some kind of handler in day-to-day life, but still, it's more than just "Some British guy told them everything will be great and they believed it".
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