Review/Drinking Game: Warhams 40k 7Ed: Send Help

General questions, debates, and rants about RPGs

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
OgreBattle
King
Posts: 6820
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2011 9:33 am

Post by OgreBattle »

I am curious as to what happened with their codex and why it was such a big deal.
They added a Necron hero who likes to collect 40k armies.
As in he puts them in stasis then arranges them in his house/tomb. He has a full catachan army, but his tyranid army had to be shelved due to them breaking out and killing other necrons.
User avatar
maglag
Duke
Posts: 1912
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2015 10:17 am

Post by maglag »

Maxus wrote:
angelfromanotherpin wrote:I am curious as to what happened with their codex and why it was such a big deal.
Also, early Necrons were seriously space zombies. They had no minds, and no motivations that anyone could see. As one acquaintance of mine said, "They sleep, they wake up, they kill everything alive, they go back to sleep. They're terrifyingly predictable."

This guy asked my advice for a Rogue Trader game, and flipped out when I suggested that the necron in the hold of the ship killing people have a workshop built, because that was so obviously against canon, etc etc etc

Well, then the new Necron fluff hit, and it turns out that the basic footsoldiers are mindless, but the higher-ranked ones retain more and more of their original personalities, until you hit the Necron Lords and Overlords and Cryptechs, who are mentally themselves in a self-repairing robot egyptian zombie body.

It gave Necrons multiple different Dynasties who are squabbling for power/control, have their own motivations/wants, and they're willing to cut deals and cooperate, lay plans, trade, etc etc etc.

Made them into people instead of a black black tide that kills all life on a world down to bacteria.

And some people loved it, and some people went apeshit.
The people who loved it are the ones with selective memory.

Necrons weren't "kill everything", quite in the contrary, because they served the C'tan gods that really liked to munch on people souls. Their real goal was to enslave the other races to provide a steady supply of souls for the C'tan masters that gave them their awesome metal bodies.

Also necrons were a real threat, with their most basic warriors even tougher than spech merines, several kinds of super tech like the best space ships, and, probably more important, still innovating and increasing their numbers with stuff like pariahs and shit.

Oh, and necrons actually had a viable plan to close the Eye of Terror by building stablizing pylons in key points and finally stop daemons messing everything up every other friday, which would be an improvement for all the living even when taking in account the "you are our cattle now" aspect.

But the 6th edition newcrons? They're literally a bunch of clowns:
-Their leaders have "personality" in that they're completely insane and 99% of the time screwing their own for no real gain, like the above mentioned collector. They have "wants" in that they're competing to see who can self-destruct faster.
-They killed their own gods (the C'tan) for no real reason (wait, Newcrons are self-destructive insane to the extreme) after the C'tan helped them beat the eldar. The eldar then regrouped and kicked the newcron's asses now that they only had shards of the C'tans left. Primitive cave people then permanently killed even more newcrons over the next millenia.
-Newcrons operate in crumbling decadent technology. They can only use some webway paths for moving around the galaxy, and more often than not end up throwing themselves inside suns. Also newcron basic warriors are rotting rusting robots that any spech merines can kill by the hundreds. Even ork boyz can now face a bigger newcron force and win in the fluff.
-Newcrons have zero ways of increasing their ranks since pariahs were retconned out of existence, meaning that newcrons are no real threat to anyone anywhere because their numbers will only go down and their tech is all shit now.

40K already had orks for comedic relief, there was no need of retconning another faction for that.
Last edited by maglag on Tue Dec 08, 2015 12:20 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Koumei
Serious Badass
Posts: 13877
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
Location: South Ausfailia

Post by Koumei »

Hey, what did I tell you assholes about reading the fluff? You can suffer brain damage from that.

So, here we talk about the Necrons. Let's start with the army-wide rules and usual bullshit random table of Warlord Traits:

Reanimation Protocols works like Feel No Pain (5+ base), except never against Strength: D, and Instant Death just provides a -1 penalty rather than negating the roll. If you have this AND FnP, you have to choose which: three saves per Wound would be overdoing it.

Living Metal used to be totally haxx, it meant "I have Armour 14 on all faces and you don't get to add extra dice to penetration - no Armourbane, no Melta, no Rending. Just bring Strength 9-10 weapons or go fuck yourself". That was annoying enough it made up for the thing costing "All the points" in an army that had a rule where if you lose half your infantry you instantly lose. They no longer have the instant loss thing, but Monoliths are still way expensive, and Living Metal is now "I ignore Crew Shaken (but still lose a Hull Point), and can regenerate Hull Points".

The traits are just shit like Eternal Warrior (this is great), Zealot (this isn't), bubble of Leadership re-rolls (always handy), modify Reserves rolls/ME FIRST rolls (can be handy - especially with planes), bubble of PointlessRelentless (this is *almost* useless on Necrons, and is ACTUALLY useless on the Warlord itself) plus Crusader, and a boost to Challenges (plus a benefit if the foe chickens out).

Okay, HQ is the following:

Overlords:
Image
The best kind!

Image

They are "the expected choice", and get all the special item options. It's an Independent Character with a Staff of Light but everyone is just going to swap it out for a Scythe, this is a fact. Note: the Scythe hits at AP 2 but doesn't reduce you to Initiative 1. Lords and Overlords are Initiative 2 by default, so all it means is you hit first against Power Fists.

Lords are just weaker Overlords. As in, they lose 1 WS, BS, W and A. That is all. However there is one very special option that is very much different: Overlords can take Catacomb Command Barges. It's a Fast Open-Topped Skimmer with Armour 11 all sides (except actually it's Armour 13 until you manage to nick the armour once, then the quantum shielding collapses down to 11). It has a Gauss Cannon or Tesla Cannon (these guys love Mister Tesla), and ignores Crew Stunned. It comes with a bubble of Leadership re-rolls (if it's the Warlord with that trait, it's a bigger bubble).

I love the way Command Barges look:
Image

The little guys actually piloting it remind me of the desk jockeys in Evangelion.

Crypteks were ultra-cool before the bandaid, but you have to drink once now. Now it's just a Lord with worse S and T and A, and only a 4+ Armour Save, and more expensive. But they get +1 to their Totally Not Feel No Pain roll, and grant that bonus to their whole unit. They can take special wargear and relics, but not basic weapons, and also have their own really expensive wargear option that gives an Invulnerable Save.

So as they stand? Yeah, you probably DO want to take one or two still. They're great for support, after all. But before they were divided into different schools of thought. You had the guys with Frag Missile Launchers (one per retinue could take a harp with a special rule that permanently erodes enemy armour), the guys with Krak Missile Launchers (one per retinue could take the Solar Pulse, which I will mention later, one per retinue could take... something else but I forget which), the guys with mind-affecting Flamers (Strength 8 vs Leadership, you know the deal), and the guys with Haywire blasters (one per retinue could take a lightning storm that fucks you up if you Deep Strike in).

I liked the character and the unique (for the army) firepower, but for actually helping units out, you probably just want the generic boost to survival. And hey, more bodies to hold relics.

Unless the drink is getting to my brain, I believe DESTROYER LORDS used to get the ability to possess enemy vehicles. No longer. Now it's a big old very tough Jet Pack character with Preferred Enemy (Your Mum), who will obviously swap his staff for a scythe I mean seriously.

Image

It's basically this.

It has heaps of special characters, unlike some of the other books lately. You have the Overlord who flat-out chooses a new Warlord Trait each turn, which is great, and gives his unit certain special rules if nearby enemies have them. This is a great Warlord just for being able to actually support the army and change up the way you play the game, rather than being the Malneus Calgar of Necrons.

There's a bodyguard Lord with a Warscythe who can teleport with his unit 1/game (if teleporting close to the above guy it doesn't scatter), and is great at leaping in the way to fight on behalf of friends.

There's a Cryptek who boosts the stats of one unit of Warriors or Immortals and carries a Bright Lance that's an assault weapon and thus Obama isn't allowed to ban it.

There's another Cryptek who has an AP 2 Power weapon that re-rolls if it misses, and each turn he has a chance of all his stats being boosted (as in, 5 5 7 7 4 4 4 10 4+) for the rest of the game.

There's an Overlord with a Warscythe and the ability to possess enemy vehicles (THERE WE GO), and he picks one group of Immortals and gives them Furious Charge and Counter Attack.

Finally there's an Overlord who possesses other friendly characters (non-unique) when killed, and carries a weapon that hits at S 7 with a chance of unleashing shockwaves out to other models.

The minis for these aren't shit, but they're not special.

Troops are really boring. There used to be just Warriors, that's it. Now there are Warriors:

Image

They shoot you with Gauss Rifles, okay? Okay. Compared to the old dex, they have a reduced statline (Toughness? Armour Save? I forget) and are a lot cheaper. They can take a Night Scythe transport or, if 10 or fewer, a Ghost Ark.

And Immortals, which were reduced to Troop status. They had a mild stat drop and are cheaper. They get Gauss Blasters or Tesla Carbines. These USED to be great anti-charge weapons, because you Overwatch and only hit on a 6, and each 6 for gauss weapons causes extra automatic hits. No longer does this apply to Snap Shots.

They can take a Night Scythe. Oh and they look like this:
Image

ELITES have the following:

Lychguard are necrons that all carry Warscythes so they're very expensive and get shot to death before they reach you. The entire unit can elect to be more expensive by swapping the scythes for Invulnerable Saves and Power Swords. They can take a Night Scythe.
Image

Deathmarks are SNOIPERS that can Deep Strike or take a Night Scythe. They used to have a rule where they come in and mark any one enemy unit, and then for the rest of the game all Deathmarks get a bonus to wound all such marked units. This was FUCKING HILARIOUS in Kill Teams, where you take ten of these guys for your whole army, mark ten separate models (quite likely "The entire enemy army"), and then your whole army gets the bonus.

Now, it's just "When you Deep Strike in, all your shooting attacks Wound on a 2+". That's enough of an overreaction to an edge case that it's worth a drink.

Also, if you have them in Reserves and an enemy unit Deep Strikes in, you can immediately Deep Strike your Deathmarks even though it's not your turn. Without rolling. They can then shoot the squads that Deep Struck (and only them). It's not even your turn, it's not even a Shooting Phase. They're just that cool. But they can't shoot on your next turn if you do this.

Image

Flayed ones used to be shit. Now they're cheap enough for what they do: Infiltrate or Deep Strike or Outflank, cause Fear (I know, useless), and make 3 attacks each (4 for dual-wielding, 5 on the charge) at WS 4 S 4 with re-rolls to Wound. AP 5, so Orks and Guardsmen and Dark Eldar Get Rekt.

Image
It puts the lotion on its skin...

Triarch Praetorians fly around on jump packs and "uphold the mad code of honour". What they actually do is beat you in the head at S 5 AP 2 in close combat and shoot you in close quarters for the same profile, or they shoot you with a S 6 pistol and stab you with a Rending Gauss sword. Also they're Fearless. And can take a Night Scythe.

Image

Stalkers are really frigging cool looking walker robots. They're Armour 13 or 11 all around (quantum), and nearby non-vehicle Necrons get a bonus to shooting. That's awesome. You can take them in squads of 1-3 and while they do okay in close combat (WS 4 S 7 A 3), they don't have specific wargear for that, and they come with a Heavy Flamer that can instead be fired as two Melta Guns. Or you could swap it for heavy tesla or a blast weapon.

It's good, but I'm going to have to subtract a point for not being able to take the Death Ray, which is an actual weapon. Seriously, if you're going to reference War of the Worlds, do it properly.

Image
X-Box is HUEG LOL

You used to get C'Tan Shards. Which you take as a basic thing and then give some random special rules to them. Not that good. That's gone, and now they've brought back the Shard of the Deceiver and Shard of the Nightbringer - the old stuff from their original dex. The Nightbringer floats over and kills a bunch of dudes in close combat and is kind of annoying to kill, The Deceiver is a bigger pain in general. The two actually pair up pretty well, but I'd say they're too expensive.

A future post will begin on Fast Attack, Heavy Support, Lords of War (WHAT? MAKING USE OF THAT ACTUAL SLOT? HAXX!), and THE DECURION.
Count Arioch the 28th wrote:There is NOTHING better than lesbians. Lesbians make everything better.
Koumei
Serious Badass
Posts: 13877
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
Location: South Ausfailia

Post by Koumei »

Right, I'm continuing this because I hate you all, or something. Fast Attack starts with the Dedicated Transport choices.

A Night Scythe is a supersonic flying transport. It actually can't Hover, but that's okay because it uses its own special form of disembark: INVASION BEEEEEEAAAAAMS.

Image
This joke will be made again later in the same post!

Image

It can "hold" up to fifteen models, and if it moves no more than 36" it can drop them off via Scotty Beaming. If it moved 24+ inches, they only get to fire Snap Shots. If it is destroyed, they take no damage and are placed into Ongoing Reserves (so they have to crawl on from their own table edge at their usual awful speed).

That bit is good: they specify they take no damage. Previously it didn't, so when Flyers were made a thing, there was a big argument about whether:
A) The rules for Flyers completely overwrite the rules that "were clearly intended for when it wasn't a Flyer"
B) Only the specific rules apply, not the usual damage, "as clearly intended"
C) Both - they take damage AND go into reserves, "as clearly intended"

Okay, Ghost Arks: they're big and bulky things, at Fake Armour 13 and 4 Hull Points. Non-Fast Open-Topped Skimmers, they hold up to 10 models (Warriors and Necron Infantry Characters only). They can fire a whole load of Gauss shots out, and can also regenerate models in Necron Warrior units.

Image
Phone not included.

WRAITHS: The Oblivion
They used to look like this:
Image

Now they look like this:
Image

This is why you are wrong if you like Oldcrons more than Newcrons.

Anyway they are beasts, as in the unit type, not a "These things are absolute beasts". That said they're S 6 T 5 W 2 A 3 Sv 3+ assholes with Rending, Fearless, 3+ Invulnerable Saves and the ability to ignore units and terrain when moving. They don't really get much to back them up, which is a problem, but they're a great close combat thing, and a lot of other armies would love to have some of these.

Also they can take pistols, trans-beams (Heavy, AP 2, and 6 to Wound always Wounds with Instant Death, 6 to Pen always causes a Penetrating Hit) or an Initiative booster (only works in close combat, not against Death Spinners).

Scarab Swarms are also beasts, but they're not as good. As such they're cheaper. In 5Ed you used them to nibble Armour Values off vehicles. Now they just make Gauss attacks in close combat.

Tomb Blades are something that every Newcron player rushed out to buy with the new Dex (more on that later).

Image
I'm surprised they can see where they're going, what with the glowing ball blocking their vision.

Basically they're Jetbikes. They are described as flying at literally breakneck speeds and turning so abruptly that only their robo-frames can handle it. They are not, however, treated as Eldar Jetbikes and they lack the Skilled Rider rule, so they're just as good at flying as Ork Deffkoptas. Also according to the description, the rider is just there to basically point where it wants to go, and the actual computer does all the piloting and calculations.

Anyway, they have Twin Gauss Blasters (which can be swapped for Twin Tesla Carbines, or single Particle Beamers, which are Blast weapons), and can take a 3+ Armour Save, Stealtjh or Ignores Cover. It's handy to put some fast-moving firepower in your army, and it's also nice to see Jetbikes where the whole unit can take stronger weapons. BUT WE'LL GET TO ELDAR LATER.

Some people might mention Destroyers. These are still Destroyers. They can still take Heavy Destroyers. They are Jet Pack Infantry with T 5 W 2, and they're kind of mental. Regulars have Gauss Cannons, Heavies have Heavy Gauss Cannons. Which makes sense I guess. They have Preferred Enemy (your mum), too. Kind of pricey on a per-model basis (as in, Terminators), but minimum squad size is seriously "one".

Image

I regret having already used the Daleks picture.

Anyway, for Heavy Support you can take a squad of Heavy Destroyers without regulars.

Image
A popular character on /tg/, back in the day

Remember the big scarabs of their old dex? Now you have Canoptek Spyders instead. Units of 1-3, Monstrous Creatures.

Image

They cost the same amount as Heavy Destroyers and are a bit tankier but don't put out the same kind of firepower. Or any firepower, as the baseline. They can be upgraded with Twin Particle Beamers, Aura of Adamantium Will (bonus to cancel out Psyker powers) or the ability to repair vehicles. Also they can reinforce nearby units of Scarabs, but risk taking damage each time.

So they put the Support in Heavy Support.

DOOOOOOOOOOOOM SCYTHES are supersonic flyers with the DEATH RAY.

Image
I told you I'd make this joke again.

Image

The Death Ray used to be a really cool, if inaccurate, weapon where you place two markers within range, then scatter them, then every model between the two markers suffers a S 10 AP 1 hit. It was cool. Now it's probably more useful (S 10 AP 1 Blast with the Lance rule just to make sure you're fucked - but still fairly low range), but just not as cool.

That means drink once.

And then again because of the bit where it's only on a flyer, not on a walking robot.

MONOLITH (I was going to make a reference to the film but I haven't seen it)
Image

Image

Great for airbrushing and fancy freehand art.

So these are 4 Hull Point Armour 14 Living Metal assholes that can Deep Strike. Heavy Skimmer Tanks with a whole bunch of Gauss shots, the ability to pull friendly units close to it (1/turn, grabbing them out of Reserves or off the table), and the Particle Whip (Big Blast). There are things you can do with them, but they are pricey. That's just a thing.

Annihilation Barge... used to be the Big Thing in 5-6Ed. It was super-cheap and unleashed a huge payload of reasonably high strength Tesla shots. With a special rule that 6 to hit not only caused the extra hits, but also caused extra hits to arc out to nearby units. You could just unleash a payload at enemies and stack all the hits on, or throw a bunch of attacks at a flyer, get one hit, then that becomes three S 7 hits.

Now... A) Tesla no longer gets bonus hits if you're firing Snap Shots. B) It's taken a HUGE increase in points cost. And C) Its weapon no longer arcs out to hit other units.

They're not suddenly shit, but it was a massive downgrade. Obvious overreaction? Drink once!

Image

Yes, this uses the same kit as the Command Barge. There are a lot of "This kit makes two things" units.

Then the Doomsday Ark, which is kind of an upside down Ghost Ark with a giant fuck off cannon instead of the ability to hold troops. That's what it's called: a Fuck Off Cannon. Or a Doomsday Cannon.

Image
If this guy had a personality, he'd make penis jokes.

If it moves, it fires a strong Blast. If it stays still it fires a REALLY strong long range Large Blast.

Finally you have the Transcendent C'tan. This used to be a Lord of War and was utterly haxx, it was turbobanned from basically every tournament ever. And looked like it belonged in a Monster In My Pocket set. Anyway, now nearby enemies are always in Difficult Terrain, it ignores all Terrain, it Deep Strikes, is Fearless, blah blah blah good stats etc. and also it has a special power. To determine the effects, you select the target and then... ROLL ON A RANDOM TABLE (and empty your cup!)

LORDS OF WAR

The Tesseract Vault also took a bit of a nerf. We're still talking a Super-Heavy Skimmer (Living Metal) with 9 Hull Points and 14 Armour. It throws out heaps of Tesla, and it has an upgraded RANDOM TABLE OF THE C'TAN.

Also whenever it explodes, you automatically get the biggest and baddest explosion.

Image

That vault was supposed to imprison the guy inside.

OBELISK
Image
That's Obelix.

Image
That's the Obelisk, which is less cool than any Asterix character.

It's a big Super Heavy Living Metal lump with a bunch of Tesla Spheres, Deep Strike, and it disrupts the movement of enemy Flyers, Skimmers, Jetbikes and Flying Monsters. Also if you want it can start on the table in Sentry Mode with a 3++ save but can't move or shoot. Then on your turn you power it up and it instantly works like normal.

Imotekh... Imotekh...
This character is an Overlord and a Lord of War. He regenerates, causes Darkness on turn 1 of gameplay, randomly causes lightning to hit enemies 1/game, lets Flayed Ones re-roll their scatter arrival, has a Staff of Light that shoots harder, and if he's the Warlord you can modify Reserve rolls.

Coming next, you'll actually see me bust out the purity seal, because that's where we talk about the Decurion, which I've been hyping so much that it won't be nearly as cool as you're anticipating.
Last edited by Koumei on Wed Dec 09, 2015 3:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
Count Arioch the 28th wrote:There is NOTHING better than lesbians. Lesbians make everything better.
Koumei
Serious Badass
Posts: 13877
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
Location: South Ausfailia

Post by Koumei »

Now, ladies and gentlemen... the Decurion.

For the Necron Decurion, you need the following:
1+ Reclamation Legion
0-1 Royal Court per Reclamation Legion
1-10 auxiliary choices per Reclamation Legion, of which we have the following:
* Judicator Battalion
* Destroyer Cult
* Canoptek Harvest
* Star-God
* Flayed Ones
* Deathmarks
* Annihilation Nexus
* Living Tomb
* Deathbringer Flight

Basically, you field a Superformation, which is built piecemeal out of other formations. This really lets you play around with your options and point values, build thematic army lists, and double down on the units you really want.

Image

Some of the auxiliary choices are boring: Star-God is just "take a Shard, Transcendent C'tan, or Tesseract Vault", Flayed Ones is "unit of Flayed Ones", Deathmarks is "unit of Deathmarks".

So the big base of it that will take up a chunk of points and the reason why everyone suddenly bought a unit of Tomb Blades:
A Reclamation Legion is 1 Overlord (or special character Overlord - Catacomb Command Barge optional), 0-2 Lychguard, 1-4 Immortals, 2-8 Warriors, 1-3 Tomb Blades, and 0-3 Monoliths. You'll notice that's more than a basic 2 Troops 1 HQ just on its own, and can be as big as 1 HQ 2 Elite 12 Troops 3 Fast 3 Heavy.

The whole lot gain Relentless (largely useless) and Move Through Cover, and the Overlord gets a bubble of "Re-roll 1 on Reanimation Protocols".

Worth the 3 Troops choices and the Tomb Blades? Yes.

Judicator Battalions are 1x Stalkers and 2x Praetorians. They get Move Through Cover, and each turn you select one unit within LoS of any of the Stalkers. The whole formation gets Warp Time re-rolls to Hit/Wound/Penetrate against that unit. This is nice.

Destroyer Cults are 1 Destroyer Lord, 3x Destroyers, 0-1x Heavy Destroyers (minimum 3 models per Destroyer unit). They all get Move Through Cover, and when shooting they re-roll failed Wound/Penetrate rolls. Noice.

Deathbringer Flight: do you want 2-4 Doom Scythes? You do? Awesome! Every Doom Scythe gets a BS bonus (ie Scatter reduction) when shooting at units that other Doom Scythes in the formation already shot at on that turn. 2 per previous pile-on. So the first shoots at +0 BS (-4" scatter), the second shoots at +2 (-6"), the third shoots at +4 (-8" ie "more than the average roll") and the fourth shoots at +6 (-10" ie "the maximum roll is 2 inches"). Also enemy units within 12" of at least two Scythes from this unit are -1 Ld.

Living Tomb: 1 Obelisk and 0-2 Monoliths. Just taking an Obelisk has no special rules, mind you. You have to Deep Strike them, but they all automatically arrive on Turn 2. Place the Obelisk first, and then if the Monoliths want to land close to it, they don't scatter. Each Monolith that jumps into play like this can then grab one unit in Reserves and automatically pull it into play out of its gate.

Annihilation Nexus: 1 Doomsday Ark, 2 Annihilation Barges. At the beginning of a turn, if the Ark's quantum shields are down, it can steal the quantum shields from one of the barges (if active).

Canoptek Harvest: 1 Spyder, 1 unit of Wraiths, 1 unit of Scarabs. Move Through Cover and Relentless (Relentless is useful for Wraiths if they carry the T-Beamer). Each turn, choose one of three rules, and the Spyder gets the rule and passes it on to the other units in the formation. They can actually grab Reanimation Protocols this way.

Royal Court: SO MANY HQ CHOICES, HAHAHA. You get an Overlord (including special characters or a Barge), 1-3 Lords (including the character Lord) and 1-3 Crypteks (including the character Crypteks). Move Through Cover + Relentless. If the Overlord is the Warlord, you can roll twice for the Necron Warlord Trait.

Finally, there's a bonus for the whole Decurion: +1 to Reanimation Protocols (so it's 4+ unless taking an Instead Death hit), and vehicles with Living Metal ignore Crew Shaken as well as Crew Stunned.

So in short: if you're playing at 1500 or more, do the Decurion. Under that? It gets a bit pricey so you might want to do a Combined Arms thing so you can take just the 1 HQ 2 Troops + essential things. Or you still might want to do this, depending on exactly what you want to take. If you go below 1000, then honestly, just go "Fuck you, I'm running Unbound AND I'M NOT EVEN FORGING THE NARRATIVE" and roll up with 1 Overlord plus an Imperial Knight.

Decurions: it's the new thing, and it's super great.

Super great.

Edit: Oh right, what do we want next? Vanilla Eldar, Harlequins, Adeptus Mechanicus I, Adeptus Mechanicus II, Spaz Morans, Khorne, Assassins, Knights, Tau?
Last edited by Koumei on Wed Dec 09, 2015 3:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
Count Arioch the 28th wrote:There is NOTHING better than lesbians. Lesbians make everything better.
name_here
Prince
Posts: 3346
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:55 pm

Post by name_here »

A bunch of people are kind of displeased about the Newcrons straight-up being TOMB KINGS IN SPAAAAACCCCCEEEEE! and marking the first major instance of taking something original in WH40k and turning it into a ripoff of something from Warhammer Fantasy instead of the other way around. I also liked their old implacable and hostile fluff more than being ineffectual and insane.
Last edited by name_here on Wed Dec 09, 2015 3:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
DSMatticus wrote:It's not just that everything you say is stupid, but that they are Gordian knots of stupid that leave me completely bewildered as to where to even begin. After hearing you speak Alexander the Great would stab you and triumphantly declare the puzzle solved.
User avatar
maglag
Duke
Posts: 1912
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2015 10:17 am

Post by maglag »

Some motivators for Koumei's hard and funny work:
7e ally rules in a nutshell:
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

What may even be more disturbing are the 40K fans who are also MLP fans.
Silent Wayfarer
Knight-Baron
Posts: 898
Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2009 11:35 am

Post by Silent Wayfarer »

Admech pls? I'd like to hear about them.
If your religion is worth killing for, please start with yourself.
User avatar
OgreBattle
King
Posts: 6820
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2011 9:33 am

Post by OgreBattle »

Image
Koumei
Serious Badass
Posts: 13877
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
Location: South Ausfailia

Post by Koumei »

If you're making your armies Pokemasters, then everyone specialises in Dark Type Pokemon. Because everything is Grim and Dark.

Adeptus Mechanicus have two books and between them they almost have enough to be a whole army, but honestly they're supposed to be taken as additions to a regular Imperial army. So let's start with the Skitarii: More Haywire Than Eldar.

Skitarii get a special thing where, each turn you choose a different doctrine to grant the army. You can't use the same one twice. They're pretty basic: you get a "Sum Total +1" bonus slider between WS and BS, where you can add +1 to one, add +2 to one but -1 to the other, or give +3 and -2.

Certain units also get to add 3" to their Move, Run and Charge distance. I will note this as the Speedy Gonzales rule, but it's not actually called that.

Their Warlord Traits are: Eternal Warrior, Master-Craft a weapon, re-roll Feel no Pain, Shrouded (5+ Cover when in the open, 3+ in most actual cover), a bubble of Leadership re-rolls, and BS 4 Overwatch (for his whole unit)

Now, they don't even have HQ choices, so they have their own Detachment: Skitarii Maniple. Which is 2-8 Troops, 0-4 Elite, 0-2 Fast Attack, 0-4 Heavy Support, and 0-1 Fortification. The Warlord gets to re-roll his Trait (if it's a Skitarii one) and gets Preferred Enemy (all). All units get the Scout rule (but can't use that to Outflank) and Crusader.

Troops: Skitarii Vanguard
Image

These guys are radioactive, which is interesting. The leader has 2 Wounds and can be the Warlord. They get a 4+ save and a radioactive gun (S 3, good number of shots, 6 to Wound automatically Wounds even T7 foes and causes 2 Wounds). They get 6+ Feel no Pain and Relentless, and enemies locked in combat with them have -1 Toughness. Some models can take special weapons.

Skitarii Rangers
Image

4+ Save, Relentless, Move Through Cover, FnP 6+, leader gets 2 Wounds and can be the Warlord. These guys have Galvanic Rifles - 30" range Rapid Fire guns that let you choose the model hit on a 6. Can take special weapons.

Image

Special like that. That's a 60" Sniper weapon with Armournbane. The other options are Rapid Fire S 6 Haywire rifles and Assault 3 Plasma weapons.

Elite: Sicarian Ruststalkers
Image

They have Strength 4 and 2 Wounds each. They get a FnP 5+, Speedy Gonzales, Furious Charge (S 5 on the charge) and they're Bulky. They get Mind scrambler grenades (thrown: Blast, Haywire, wounds on 4+. Assault: ignore Cover, and can be used to make a Haywire attack), and a Transonic Razor and a Chode Claw (S +0, one attack is Fleshbane). I mean Chord Claw. They can instead swap all of that (including the 'nades) for a pair of Transonic Blades (S +1) - in which case the leader can buy a Chord Claw as well. All of those weapons Wound on a 6 even against stupidly high Toughness, and in round 1 every to Wound roll of 6 is AP 2, all rounds after that all attacks are AP 2.

Sicarian Infiltrators:
Image

Basically have the same statline as above, but instead of Move Through Cover they get Infiltrate and Stealth, and their equipment is a Stub Carbine (Assault 3, not Pistol) and a Power Sword. Or you can swap it for Taser Goads (+2 Strength, 6 to hit causes 3 hits) and Flechette Blasters (S2 Pistol that re-rolls failed Wounds and fires five times each time).

Fast: Sydonian Dragoons
Image

It's a Walker with a Data Tether (nearby infantry get a Ld boost when you're using Imperatives), Speedy Gonzales, Crusader, and an innate 5+ Cover Save. Comes in squads of 1-6, and has Taser Lances (S +2, charging is S +3 double Initiative. Any 6 to hit gives 3 hits). These can be swapped for radiation sniper rifles. Can also take Phosphor guns (S 5 AP 4, damaged targets get -1 to Cover saves and friendly units re-roll Charge distance against them).

I like the Phosphex of Horse Heresy. It's S 5 or 6 and Poisoned 3+ anyway, and is always a blast that A) lets you adjust the template after scatter if that results in more minis being hit, and B) remains on the table as Dangerous Terrain for the rest of the game. Phosphex is crazy shit. Phosphor weapons are just handy support weapons.

Heavy: Ironstrider Ballistarii
Image
(The one on the right)

1-6 Walkers with Data-Tethers, Twin-Linked Autocannons (that fire at BS 2 when firing Snap Shots), Speedy Gonzales, Crusader, and Precision Shots. So they're sort of Snipers but without actually having the Sniper rule. They can swap the Twin Autocannons for Twin Lascannons that also fire BS 2 when Snap-Shotting.

Onager Dunecrawler
Image

It's a reasonably bulky Walker (Crawler: ignore Terrain, but can't Run) with a 6+ Invulnerable Save. The squad size is 1-3 and the save boosts to 5+ for two, or 4+ for three of them. They get a Data Tether and an Eradication Beamer (as the target gets further away it goes from single shot to Blast to Large Blast, but the power goes down from S 10 AP 1 to S 8 AP 3 to S 6 AP 5). That can be swapped for a Twin Heavy Phosphor Blaster (S 6 AP 3 Heavy 3, see Phosphor above), or a Neutron Laser (S 10 AP 1 Concussive Blast) plus "BS 2 on Snap Shots" Heavy Stubber, or the crazy Icarus Array. The Array is a Twin Autocannon with Interceptor and Skyfire, plus a Gatling Rocket Launcher (same range, S 6 AP 4 Heavy 5 Skyfire No Cover) PLUS a Daedalus Missile Launcher (same range, S 7 AP 2 Heavy 1 Skyfire). Flyers get Shrekt.
They can also take Smoke Launchers, a Probe (enemies get no bonus attacks for charging friendly units in 6"), or a Power Fist that grants regeneration to the model with it. As a Power Fist, it has Unwieldy. As a Walker. That means you drink.

All unit leaders can take a 5+ Invulnerable Save or a 4+ Invulnerable Save that causes Blind tests on nearby units, or Digi-Weapons. Or Relics. A lot of unit leaders can take Arc Mauls (Haywire Power Mauls) and Dataspikes (gives a bonus Haywire attack at Initiative 10).

As you can see, the Detachment is basically exactly what you want.
Image

But that's not all! You can ALSO take specific little formations of them, and that is specifically made with Allies in mind.

The Battle Maniple is 1 unit of each of the above, with the exception of Dragoons/Ballistari: you choose *1* of those two. If it contains your Warlord, you can re-roll their Skitarii Warlord Trait and the Warlord gets Preferred Enemy (all). All models in the formation within 12" of a Dunecrawler are Ld 10. Finally, the whole thing gets Scouts (can't use it to Ouflank) and Crusaders. So basically it's the same as the "choose this and that" detachment, except with the Leadership boost.

War Cohort: THREE BATTLE MANIPLES (at this point this really is your main army). All it grants (on top of the basic Battle Maniple stuff) is that you can 1/game re-use an Imperative.

Sicarian Killclade: 3x Ruststalkers, 1x Infiltrators. All enemies within 12" of the Infiltrators suffer the -1 Toughness. 1/game, Ruststalkers can Run and Assault in the same turn, as long as that turn isn't the first one.

Ironstrider Cavaliers: 2x Sydonian Dragoons, 1x Ironstrider Ballistarii. They get Outflank and can re-roll which side they enter from. Also choose one enemy character at the start of the game. This formation get to re-roll failed Wounds against that character and their unit. The whole formation can see through all other units in the formation. Finally, the whole thing starts in Reserves and you roll for the whole formation as one big thing.

And the whole thing is done.
Count Arioch the 28th wrote:There is NOTHING better than lesbians. Lesbians make everything better.
User avatar
Prak
Serious Badass
Posts: 17345
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by Prak »

For determining LOS, instead of crouching down and trying to "BE THE MINI", couldn't you just take out the camera that is in literally every person's pocket and use that? Hold it in front of your mini, viewfinder level with their head/sensory apparati, and either take pictures, or just record as you move it around their head?

Or am I expecting too much from GW?
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.
Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.
FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
Koumei
Serious Badass
Posts: 13877
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
Location: South Ausfailia

Post by Koumei »

They don't say that, but you certainly could. They used to sell small laser pointers designed specifically for checking LoS, but either they weren't making their money back or it's a British "Health and Safety Gone Mad" thing.
Count Arioch the 28th wrote:There is NOTHING better than lesbians. Lesbians make everything better.
Silent Wayfarer
Knight-Baron
Posts: 898
Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2009 11:35 am

Post by Silent Wayfarer »

Thanks, Koumei!

On an unrelated note I plant to get an Imperial Knight Crusader for the mini.
If your religion is worth killing for, please start with yourself.
Schleiermacher
Knight-Baron
Posts: 666
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2012 9:39 am

Post by Schleiermacher »

I'd like to see Harlequins next. I was always interested in their particular brand of crazy.
Koumei
Serious Badass
Posts: 13877
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
Location: South Ausfailia

Post by Koumei »

Sure thing, after Ad-Mech II, I'll cover the Harlequins. Which kind of fits alongside these. Not as an ally, but in the sense of "It's a minidex you use to supplement your existing armies".

First I want to mention something: the AdMech have no tanks. Now every Imperial army that has tanks only has tanks because the AdMech gave them the tanks, and in most cases they actually have AdMech on hand to repair and maintain them. And half these guys just adhere to the cognitive dissonance of allowing prayers to the Omnissiah while stomping on the faces of people who believe in a slightly different viewpoint of the Emperor.

But the AdMech apparently give ALL their tanks away, as part of the deal for tagging along with every army and not being declared heretics. That might actually be written into the fluff, but I doubt it. Anyway, between both these books and the Knights and also the Horse Heresy stuff, their only vehicles are Walkers.

Image
Pictured: Horse Heresy

But on with the Cult Mechanicus.

These chaps have Canticles of the Omnissiah. These work like the Imperatives, in that you use one per turn and each one is 1/game. However the effect depends on the number of units you have that use the rule.
Iron Soul: Stubborn -> Stubborn + Leadership re-rolls -> Fearless
Electromancer: bonus Initiative 10 S 4 attacks -> 2 such attacks -> 3 such attacks
Remorseless Fist: re-roll 1s to hit in close combat - > re-roll 2s as well -> re-roll all close combat Misses
Omniscience: re-roll 1s to hit in shooting - > re-roll 2s as well -> re-roll all shooting Misses
Shroudspalm: Stealth -> Shrouded -> Stealth AND Shrouded
Machine-Might: +1 S -> +2 S -> +3 S

Traits are Eternal Warrior (always nice), Master-Craft one weapon, re-roll FnP, DON'T ROLL ON RANDOM FUCKING TABLES for Mysterious Objectives (just flat-out choose what you want it to be, SCORE), Haywire close combat attacks, and Warlord's unit always gets the maximum benefit for Canticles.

Most of these are pretty solid. Like, the absolute worst one is Master-Crafting a weapon, and even that isn't total shit. If you have two rolls, you're golden.

Their special Detachment is the Cult Mechanicus Battle Congregation, which is:
1 HQ, 2-8 Troops, 0-4 Elites, 0-2 Heavy Support, 0-1 Fortification.
Not included in this book: Fast Attack
Benefits: re-roll your Mechanicus Warlord Trait, 1/game re-use a Canticle. I could see reasons to take Combined Arms instead (there are some bulky fucking units here that would make good use of Objective Secured), but this works well enough for its purpose that you could also use it just fine, especially if you want to load up on heaps of robot mans.

(As a side-note, I would allow all the Horse Heresy Mechanicum options in this, to be honest. A lot of them basically use the same chassis as a lot of these things.)

Special Wargear: Digi-Weapons, Info-Slave Skull, 5+ Invulnerable, 4+ Invulnerable with Blind burst, Stasis Field (going to ground gives 2++ but you are WS 0 BS 0)
Relics: some useful things but nothing super special, mostly I want to mention that I forgot to point out that the Skitarii literally have THE SKULL OF FUCKING TESLA as a relic.

HQ: Tech-Priest Dominus.
Image

He's expensive, and he's kind of built like a Space Marine captain. With a 2+/5++ save. So a Terminator captain who can't Deep Strike but can chase you down. He has FnP and Relentless, and comes with so much wargear. Aside from the saving throw wargear, he has a Scryerskull (1/turn identify a Mysterious Objective on the battlefield), a Volkite Blaster (let me tell you all about these at the end), a Macrostubber (Pistol with 5 shots when it fires), a Power Axe, and a Tentacle Harness (Dataspike, also he can fire all guns in the Shooting Phase). He gets to repair friendly vehicles, and restore lost Wounds to himself and friendly AdMech (including Skitarii). He can also swap some weapons out for an Eradication Ray (Heavy weapon, up close it's S 8 AP 1 Heavy 1, further away it's S 6 AP 3 Heavy 1 Blast) and a Phosphor gun (remember those?)

Troops: Kataphron Breachers
Image
Rumble rumble rumble

Do you like your Troops to be Toughness 5 with 2 Wounds? I thoughrt so! (Eat a dick, Tyranid Warriors!) They get a 3+ Save as well, are Very Bulky and Relentless, but they can't run. They can fire 2 weapons per turn but these ones don't come with 2 guns. They have a Heavy Arc Rifle (Heavy 2 Haywire gun) and an Arc Claw (Strength +1, Haywire). The former can be swapped for a Torsion Cannon (Heavy 1, high power, causes d3 Wounds/Hull Points when it hits), and the latter can be swapped for a Hydraulic Claw (Unwieldy +2 Strength weapon, you can choose to swap all attacks for one S 10 AP 2 attack). 3-12 per unit. A hard nut to crack. Admittedly, 50 points per model.

Kataphron Destroyers
Image

More expensive than the above, and only a 4+ save, but they have the same special rules and are loaded up with an Assault 2 Plasma Gun (yes, each, and as Troops with multiple wounds) and a Phosphor Blaster. They can swap one for a Heavy Grav Cannon (Grav weapons are pretty crazy currently), and the other for a Flamer that automatically lands 3 hits when firing Overwatch. 3-12 models.

Elite: Fulgurite Electro-Priests
Image

5-20 kind of squishy dudes with FnP and Zealot, as well as electric sticks (in close combat they get +2 Strength, Concussive, and any 6 to Wound causes Instant Death) and a 5+ Invulnerable Save. Hammer of Wrath at S 4 and they effectively have Grenades. Also if they wipe an enemy out in close combat (including chasing them down), their Invulnerable becomes 3++, which is totally haxx.

Corpuscarii Electro-Priests
Image
We have such sights to show you.

5-20 kind of squishy dudes with FnP and Zealot, as well as Electrostatic Gauntlets (close combat: Strength 4, Ranged: 12" S 4 Assault 2 Twin-Linked, I think they get that Tesla rule as well for ALL THE HITS) and a 5+ Invulnerable Save. S 4 Hammer of Wrath and basically have grenades.

Heavy: Kastelan Robot Maniple
Image
They look so dumb, I wish I could find the thing where one is talking to a Forgeworld Castellax Robot (looks very similar). But hey, Dreadnoughts. Dreadknights. Maybe the Imperium just has to have stupid looking robots for anything smaller than a Knight?

1-3 Datasmiths (T 4 W 2 Sv 2+/5++ Power Fist, Armourbane Pistol, Dataspike, FnP).
2-6 ROBOTS (Monstrous Creatures, T 7 W 3 Sv 3+ Fearless, twin Power Fists, Flamer with 12" extra reach like the Hellhounds get).
As long as at least one Datasmith is still alive, you can activate protocols (in addition to Canticles, not limited in use). A) Robots get FnP, B) Double your Attacks (to 4, 5 for two weapons, 6 on the charge) but can't shoot, C) Fire the carapace weapon twice but can't move or charge.

Also the Robots get a 5++ against shooting, and on a 6 it bounces the shoots off at the firer (not Templates, Blasts or Psychic attacks).

Robots can swap the fists for a Twin Heavy Phosphor Blaster, and can swap the Flamer for a carapace single Heavy Phosphor Blaster. Datasmiths can take special wargear options.

That is seriously the entire army list. Now we get the special detachments!

Cohort Cybernetica: take 1 Dominus and 2 Kastelan Robot Maniples and slam them together as a single unit even though normally you can't do that. The Domino counts as a Datasmith for the purpose of activating Protocols, and as long as he's still there, the effects apply immediately rather than "starting on your next turn". Each "Not a Robot" in the group can choose to not fire, but instead personally direct the fire of one Robot. That lets that Robot pick a different target to shoot from the rest of the unit. It counts as three units for "How big is my Canticles bonus" and for Victory Points. You will give the Dominus the relic that grants the whole unit regeneration. You will then basically never die.

Elimination Maniple: 2-3 units of Destroyers, and 1-3 units of Robots. As long as any robot causes Wounds/Glances/Penetrations against an enemy unit, by using Phosphor weapons, the Destroyers all get +1 BS and Ignores Cover against that enemy for the rest of that phase.

Numinous Conclave: the best way to take your Electro-Priests. Probably costs around a thousand points and a million dollars. 2-3 units of each flavour of Electro-Priest. They all gain Crusader. Corpuscarii get +1 shot from the gauntlets if within 6" of the Fulgurites, and enemies wounded by this become "Electrified" for the rest of the turn. Fulgurites get to re-roll failed Wounds against Electrified units.

Holy Requisitioner: 1 Dominus + 2-3 units of Breachers.
They all Deep Strike together as one clump. First place the Dominus, without scatter if it's close to an Objective, and then everything else arrives, and doesn't scatter if close to him. Then they all get Counter-Attack and Zealot when close to an objective.

All in all, it's solid, and really designed for linking with Skitarii. The two complement each other nicely.

Skitarii: that's a very smart hat you're wearing.
Tech-Priest: thank you, you're looking good today

I said I'd wax poetic about Volkite weapons. These get a purity seal but I can't be bothered grabbing the picture. So what are they? They're Strength 6 weapons that cause bonus hits (same strength) equal to the number of Wounds caused (these don't chain into yet more). Basically they're heat rays that cause people to combust and explode into clouds of cinders and hot ash. Which is a very visceral thing, and a big part of 40k is visceral weapons. Like, if they made a classic-style FPS game with Imperial weapons (Fire Warrior can fuck right off), it would be as much fun as things like Blood and Painkiller.

Overall, it fills a useful niche: killing Aspect Warriors. These chumps are pretty elite/dedicated to one good task, and relatively expensive per model, but come in small squads of specialists without wasteful "eight guys with lasguns" and aren't too tough. You blast a group of 5 with a Blaster (3 shots out to 2 feet), two of them explode, and then they kill another two. The survivor then shits himself and remembers that this is all from one model.

Volkite Pistols aren't that great because it's one shot - you're talking two hits maximum. But it's still good strength, most people are DELIGHTED to have a pistol that's S 6 and doesn't even explode in their hand!

Volkite Chargers are, IIRC, Assault 2 weapons (Forgeworld Horse Heresy only), and you put a couple of them in a unit or chuck one on a vehicle as a side weapon, and roast a couple of extra dudes. Again, you're happy enough to have a decent strength weapon in there, and the extra hits are gravy.

The Blasters, though, are Heavy 3 and that's enough firepower to actually make a difference. It's multi-target weaponry without using templates. I think there are also ones that unleash 5 or 6 shots, and Sisters would love that stuff. But Horse Heresy only.

Also there's a Knight with a close combat weapon that has its Deflagrate rule (the extra wounds), and a Horse Heresy Space Marine Superheavy Tank that fires a thin Volkite beam through multiple units.
Count Arioch the 28th wrote:There is NOTHING better than lesbians. Lesbians make everything better.
Silent Wayfarer
Knight-Baron
Posts: 898
Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2009 11:35 am

Post by Silent Wayfarer »

Also there's a Knight with a close combat weapon that has its Deflagrate rule (the extra wounds)
That's the Cerastus Knight, I think, with its Tempest Blade. Its altfire mode gives it the ability to hit everything in base contact with it, the Deflagrate rule, on top of a S10 AP 2(?) base attack. Also Stomp hits at S10. In other words it's a big Fuck You to infantry.
Last edited by Silent Wayfarer on Thu Dec 10, 2015 6:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
If your religion is worth killing for, please start with yourself.
Koumei
Serious Badass
Posts: 13877
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
Location: South Ausfailia

Post by Koumei »

HARLEQUINS~
Image
Was that too obvious?

For the record, this is another tag-along army. There really isn't enough to make a whole force, and if you do, you'll be really vulnerable to certain things. Like Flyers. Also, you need to do some crazy delicate painting for these, so you really want them to be a small centrepiece thing.

Anyway on with the show.
They only have Troupes Troops, Elites, Fast Attack and Heavy Support. They are BFFs with Eldar and Dark Eldar, they put up with Tau and the Imperium, they team with Orks if they really have to, and they spit in the face of Chaos, Nids and Crons.

THREE Warlord Trait tables. Troupe Masters roll a d6, whereas Death Jesters and Shadowseers roll a 1d3 (or roll a d6 on the core rule book tables).
LIGHT Traits: re-roll all To Hit rolls of 1 and all saving throw rolls of 1, 4++, slight movement increase, +4 to Seize the Initiative (act first despite deploying last), select d3 units to Deep Strike/Scout/Infiltrate, redeploy 1d3 units.

TWILIGHT SPARKLE Traits: first three are the same, choose to +/-2 to any "Does the game end yet?" rolls, Instant Death on any 6 to Wound (or 5-6 on Kiss of Death attacks), 1/game Mirror Leap (teleport 24" but can't charge).

DARK Traits: first three are the same, enemies in base contact have to roll 3d6 for Fear/Morale checks, Warlord+unit get a bonus turn at the end of the game, and double-suicide in a challenge (if the Warlord is killed, you roll off to see if the opponent also dies).

A lot of average ones.

Their basic Detachment is precisely 3 Troops, 0-7 Elite, precisely 2 Fast Attack and precisely 1 Heavy Support. You can re-roll your Harlequin Warlord Trait, and all the Fleet units get to have the old Fleet rules where you can Run and Charge in the same turn. It's not bad, but seriously, just use the little formations that I'll detail later.

For wargear, you only have specific options listed unit-by-unit (like 4-5Ed. I miss those days. Instead of claiming the same gun is just as expensive no matter who holds it), except for the Relics (Enigmas of the Black Library). These are available to Troupe Masters, Shadowseers, Death Jesters and Solitaires. Most noteworthy is there is a Shuriken Pistol that fires as many times as your Attacks characteristic and only costs 5 points. The Solitaire can't take it, sadly, but it's a bargain thing.

Troops: Troupes
Image

It's 5-12 guys and they cost more than Space Marines. They have good statlines but are still S 3 T 3, and the Troupe Leader gets 2 Wounds. They all ignore terrain and have a 5++ Invulnerable Save, as well as Plasma Grenades, and the Shuriken Pistol + CCW. They are Fleet, Cause Fear, have Furious Charge and Hit & Run. So a lot of rules layered on there, and they're REALLY supposed to run up, charge you, then flit away to charge someone else even if they don't kill you.

Any and all models can swap their CCWs for a Harlequin's Kiss/Embrace/Caress, for +5/5/8 points respectively. Any and all models can swap pistols for Neuro pistols (always Wounds on a 2+ and AP 2) or Fusion pistols (Melta). The master can swap his weapon for a Power Sword, and can take Haywire grenades. They can take a Starweaver.

Harlequin's Kiss: roll one attack separately, it is the Kiss of Death attack. It is always S 6 AP 2 and a 6 to Wound causes Instant Death.
Harlequin's Embrace: normal CCW, but you also get Hammer of Wrath (as 1d3 S 6 automatic hits).
Harlequin's Caress: each 6 to Hit in close combat is AP 2 and automatically Wounds regardless of Toughness, and automatically Glances vehicles.

Elite: Death Jester aka Killer Clown
XImage

Decent statline, 2 Wounds, suffers Instant Death from a Scatterlaser still. Ignores Terrain, 5++, Fear, Fleet, Furious Charge, Hit & Run, can join units, and on a 6 to hit with shooting he picks the model hit. Furthermore, if he shoots you and causes even 1 casualty, you have to test Morale as though taking 25% casualties... with a -2 penalty to Ld... and if you fail, he decides which direction you fall back. In future turns you fall back normally, but he can totally make you fall "back" into allies' charge range, or straight into them where you get wiped out.

He can take haywires, and has the Shrieker Cannon: a Shuricannon that can instead be fired as S 1 AP 5 Assault 1 Bladestorm (the usual Shuriken rule), Poison 2+, Pinning, and anything killed causes a Blast at S 5 AP 4.

Shadowseer:
Image

2 Wounds, decent stats, level 1 Psyker (can upgrade to 2). Ignores Terrain, 5++, Pistol and Fleshbane CCW that also gives +2 S and Concussive, Fear, Fleet, Furicharge, Hit & Run, can join units. They choose powers from Telepathy, Sanctic Daemonology, and their own special one, Phantasmancy. They can take a Neuro Disruptor and Haywire grenades.

Phantasmancy is this:
Primaris: Veil of Tears (Charge 1: enemies targeting the caster's unit roll 2d6x2. If they're further away than the result, they auto-miss and can't shoot anyone that turn.)
1. Dance of Shadows (Charge 1: grant Stealth and Shrouded (4+ Cover in the open, 2+ in most terrain) to a unit)
2. Peal of Discord (Charge 1: Nova that hits all in 9", S 4 AP - Assault 2d6, Concussive)
3. Shards of Light (Charge 1: 24" S 3 AP - Assault 3d6 Blind)
4. Fog of Dreams (Charge 2: curse an enemy to only hit on a 6 in close combat and only fire Snap Shots when shooting (so, only hit on 6, can't use Blasts))
5. Laugh of Sorrows (Charge 2: enemy unit takes 2 Ld tests. First one causes Wounds equal to the failure margin, the second causes Wounds equal to the SUCCESS margin. No armour or cover.)
6. Mirror of Minds (Charge 2: pick a specific enemy model: make opposed 1d6+Ld rolls. If the Shadowseer wins/draws, the target loses a Wound (no armour or cover) and roll again, keep going until target wins a roll or dies).

Some are okay, but you might just want to stick with Telepathy.

Solitaire:
Image
Easy joke.

Image

This guy costs more than a lot of Space Marine heroes. Just saying. Then again he's WS 9 BS 9 S 3 T 3 W 3 I 10 A 6 Ld 10. Ignores Terrain, Fear, Immune to Instant Death, Deep Strikes, Hit & Run, Fleet, Furicharge, Fearless, 3++ Invulnerable, moves 12" in the Movement Phase... AND A PARTRIDGE IN A PEAR TREE.

Can't join units ever, is Unique (thus limited to 1 per Detachment/Formation, pretty sure you can take multiple if you have multiple formations though), and never has Warlord Traits, so don't make him the Warlord. Has a Kiss and a Caress. Can take Haywires.

Finally, once per game, he can do a special move: roll (Turn number)d6. The total is the number of inches he can move that turn. He can fly over terrain when doing this, and his base Attacks characteristic becomes 10 for that turn.

Fast Attack: Skyweaver Jetbikes
Image

2-6 jetbikes that are large enough that they have two riders each. 2 Wounds, Toughness 4, 4+ Armour Save and 5++. Fear, Furious Charge, Hit & Run, and they have Mirage Launchers and a Star Bolas (which can be swapped for a Zephyrglaive). They also have Shruicannons that can be swapped for Haywire Cannons (Haywire Blasts). Expensive.

Bolas: 1-use S 6 AP 2 Blast
Zephyrglaive: S +0 AP 3, unless charging where it's S +1 AP 2.

Starweaver:
Image

A transport with 2 HP and Armour 10 all sides. But it still has the 5++ Invulnerable. It has 2 Shuricannons and Mirage Launchers (1/game trigger against enemy shooting for a 4++ against Shooting until next turn) and is an Open-Topped Fast Skimmer that can hold 6 models. Causes Fear.

Heavy Support: Voidweavers
Image

Haha, heavy. So it's an Open-Toppede Fast Skimmer, taken in units of 1-3. All Armour 10, 2 Hull Points, Fear, Haywire Cannon, 5++, Mirage Launchers, and 2 Shuricannons. The back one can fire at separate targets from the rest of the weapons because it points backwards. Any can swap the Haywire for a Prismatic Cannon: can be a S 3 AP 4 Large Blast or a S 5 AP 3 Blast or a S 7 AP 2 Lance.

And here we have some lovely formations!

Cegorach's Revenge is 3 Troupes, 3 Jesters, 3 Seers, 1 Solitaire, 2 Skyweaver units, 1 Voidweaver unit and a partridge in a pear tree. You get to re-roll Invulnerable Saves of 1 for the whole formation, you can re-roll your Warlord Trait if it's from this book, and starting on second turn, all Fleet units can do the old Fleet thing of Run+Charge. Yes, this is practically an entire 1500 point army. Actually it might seriously be that. Or more. Let me stop and check right now. Okay, so taking the bare minimum squad sizes and no upgrades of any kind, it's 1,065. So yeah, it's a 1500 point force. Madness.

The Serpent's Brood is 3 Troupes, 2 Skyweaver units, 3 Starweavers and a unit of Voidweavers. The Troupes specifically have the Starweavers as Dedicated Transports. You can re-roll your Harlequin Warlord Trait, and the Troupes can use Consolidate moves and their Hit & Run move to embark on Starweavers if they get close enough. That's cute.

Cast of Players, ie the standard Eldar booster addition: 1 Troupe, 1 Death Jester, 1 Shadowseer. The unit is locked together as a single unit that can't split up. They get Crusader, and any nearby Eldar or Dark Eldar units also get Crusader.

Cegorach's Jest: 1 Troupe, 1 unit of Skyweavers, 1 unit of Voidweavers. Fleet units get Old Fleet starting on turn 2.

The Heroes' Path: 1 Jester, 1 Seer, 1 Solitaire. They all get Stealth, Shrouded and Infiltrate, but they can't join units or be joined by other characters. So they're just three disruption specialists.

Pikachu's Faolchu's Blade: 2 units of Skyweavers, 1 unit of Voidweavers. Anything in this unit that Jinks gets to re-roll its cover save.

And that is all. As you can see, they are designed to be used alongside your existing Eldar, and can really fill some weaknesses. Against armies that ARE NOT immune to Fear, they combo hilariously with certain Dark Eldar, letting you stack multiple Ld penalties and then force enemies to fail Ld tests and die horribly.

So next could be Space Marines, Khorne, Eldar, Assassins, Inquisition, Knights (I understand people wanting to buy these just to paint them up. I just can't justify the cost in the way I CAN justify the cost to spend the same amount, over time, on a bunch of units), or Tau.
Count Arioch the 28th wrote:There is NOTHING better than lesbians. Lesbians make everything better.
User avatar
Stahlseele
King
Posts: 5974
Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2010 4:51 pm
Location: Hamburg, Germany

Post by Stahlseele »

CORN! next please ^^
Welcome, to IronHell.
Shrapnel wrote:
TFwiki wrote:Soon is the name of the region in the time-domain (familiar to all marketing departments, and to the moderators and staff of Fun Publications) which sees release of all BotCon news, club exclusives, and other fan desirables. Soon is when then will become now.

Peculiar properties of spacetime ensure that the perception of the magnitude of Soon is fluid and dependent, not on an individual's time-reference, but on spatial and cultural location. A marketer generally perceives Soon as a finite, known, yet unspeakable time-interval; to a fan, the interval appears greater, and may in fact approach the infinite, becoming Never. Once the interval has passed, however, a certain time-lensing effect seems to occur, and the time-interval becomes vanishingly small. We therefore see the strange result that the same fragment of spacetime may be observed, in quick succession, as Soon, Never, and All Too Quickly.
User avatar
OgreBattle
King
Posts: 6820
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2011 9:33 am

Post by OgreBattle »

Harlequins also get hallucinogen grenades that work differently from dark eldar phantasm grenades, even though both are described in a very similar manner.

I wonder why they added a back facing shurikannon to the weavers though, it looks really strange, the idea of a 'back facing gun that fires separately' is also not common in 40k.

The general consensus is that harlequin infantry is good but their bikes/weavers are bad and largely a tax to get formation bonuses
Koumei
Serious Badass
Posts: 13877
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
Location: South Ausfailia

Post by Koumei »

Image

It was either that or I Like Corm.

So, Khorne gets his own Codex because the small children who play the game think the "SUPER ALWAYS ANGRY EXTRA VIOLENT FIGHT OWENS FIGHT RAGE BLOODFUCK SKULLSHITTER KILL KILL DEATH SMASH FEED ME MORE BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE JOHN CENA DO DO DO DOOOOO" is cool, and that generates money. The game won't get better until we kill every child and teenager on the planet.

So, specifically this is Daemonkin of Khorne. In some ways it is hamstrung by trying to adhere to Daemons (d6E) and also Chaos Meringues (d6E), which aren't great. And have major problems.

Now we have a special rule this time! Every time they say "blood" in the name of something, drink oncethink about drinking once.

They get a special rule across the whole army, called BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! Drink twice. Any time a unit with this rule wipes an enemy unit out or is wiped out, gain a Blood Tithe point and drink once. Any time a character with that rule slays an enemy character in a challenge or is slain in a challenge, gain a Blood Tithe point and drink once. You can have up to 8 of these points at a time. Whenever you spend any of these points, you lose all extra ones remaining: go big or go home.

1 point: army gains Adamantium Will (+1 to Deny psyker powers) for one turn
2 points: army gains Furious Charge and Rage for one turn
3 points: army gains FnP for one turn
4 points: army-wide +1 Attack for one turn
5 points: create a new unit of 8 Bloodletters or 5 Flesh Hounds
6 points: create a new Skullcannon or unit of 3 Bloodcrushers
7 points: select one of your non-Daemon characters with the BFTBG rule. It attempts a Ld test. On a failure it turns into a Spawn, on a pass it turns into a Daemon Prince with Flight and Wings. If it is the Warlord, this doesn't count as dying, and it retains the Warlord Trait and any Artefacts it had.
8 points: as above, but they just die on a fail, and on a pass become a Bloodletter of Unfettered Fury.

A bunch of things have Daemon of Khorne as a rule: this gives them Daemon (5++ and Fear), Hatred (Daemons of Slaanesh), and Furious Charge. Chariots with this rule have S 7 Hammer of Wrath.

Other things have Mark of Khorne, which gives Rage and Counter-Attack, ie +1 A in the first round of any combat.

There is a SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE! rule that forces you to accept/issue challenges.

They like Daemons and Chaos Marines a lot. They are okay with Necrons and Orks. They barely tolerate Dark Eldar and Tau. They fucking hate the Imperium, Eldar, Harlequins and Tyranids.

Warlord Traits are: bubble of Charge distance re-rolls, Zealot, +1 Attack, generate double Blood Bloods when killing characters in challenges, Preferred Enemy (All), Warlord automatically passes the Ld test to become a Daemon Prince

So we have the Chaos Lord
Image
The paintjobs will largely be shit for this army. This is because kids just dip the minis in red paint, shake the excess off, and blot two black dots in for the eyes.

He is Fearless and Marked and has the usual rules. He can take lots of different gear and even be a Terminator.

Daemon Princes
Image

This is a Monstrous Creature that is reasonably bulky but mostly exists to deal the pain. It is a Daemon of Khorne, can Derp Strike, and is Fearless. It can take Gifts and Artefacts, as well as Flight and a 3+ Armour Save.

Herald:
Image

Don't worry, it's far less malevolent than the Herald Sun/Morning Herald, rags put out by Murdoch over here. This is the cheap HQ choice. It carries a Power Sword, is a good fighter, dies relatively easily, and is a Derp Striking Fearless Daemon of Khorne. It can take Loci, Gifts and Artefacts.

It can also take a Blood Throne (drink once).
Image

Apparently there is a game called Blood Throne. Ten quid says it's a shitty browser game that has annoying "MEN ONLY FOR THIS GAME" ads.

Image
It's a sturdy chariot that is a Daemon of Khorne and can Deep Strike. It gets to make a few attacks of its own, and can regain lost Hull Points when it causes casualties with Hammer of Wrath. If the Herald has a Locus, then units within 6" of the Throne gain the benefits of it.

There is a special Herald called Skulltaker. He takes skulls. He has Eternal Warrior and a 3+ Armour Save, and a Soul Blaze Power Sword that causes Instant Death on a 6 to hit.

BLOODTHIRSTER (drink once) OF UNFETTERED FURY!
Image

A Flying Monstrous Creature, Fearless Derp Striking Daemon of Khorne, that wrecks face in close combat and has loads of Wounds. It also has a 3+ Armour Save, an Axe of Khorne (AP 2 weapon that causes Instant Death on a 6 to Wound), and a Lash of Khorne (12" S 6 AP 2 Assault 1).

BLOODTHIRSTER (drink once) OF INSENSATE RAGE!
Image

A Flying Monstrous Creature, Fearless, Derp Striking Daemon of Khorne that wrecks face in close combat and has loads of Wounds. It also has a 3+ Armour Save, a Great Axe of Khorne (GREAT! Strength D AP 2, even Monstrous Creatures are Initiative 1 with it), and Rage.

WRATH OF KHORNE BLOODTHIRSTER! (drink once)
Image

A Flying Monstrous Creature, Fearless, Derp Striking Daemon of Khorne that wrecks face in close combat and has loads of Wounds. It also has a 3+ Armour Save, an Axe of Khorne, a Bloodflail (drink once - 12" S 7 AP 2 Assault d3, and AP 2 Melee), and Hellfire (Soul Blaze Heavy Flamer). It also has Adamantium Will and Hatred (Characters).

Okay that was a lot of HQ choices. Let's move onto Troops.
Chaos Cultists are just a bunch of crappy humans who are shitty. They still have BFTBG and SFTST (leader), and the Mark of Khorne. 8-35, a couple of weapon options but you don't care, they're 6 points apiece.

Chaos Space Marines come in squads of 8-20 and you know what rules and options they get because they're Chaos Space Marines. With a Mark of Khorne. They can take a Rhino if they want.

Berserkers/Berzerkers:
Image

Berserkers are the "Special Space Marines" of Khorne. They have WS 5 and Fearless, Furious Charge and all the usual stuff. 8-20 models, Bolt Pistol + CCW which can be upgraded to a Chainaxe (AP 4 melee weapon, that's all). If you want to waste points you can throw some Plasma Pistols in. Can take a Rhino.

Bloodletters (drink once)
Image

Fearless, Derp Striking Daemons of Khorne with Blood for the Blood God! They all carry Power Swords, and it's 8-20. One can be a unit leader with Skulls for the Skull Throne. Can take an Instrument and a Banner... OF BLOOD (drink once).

Next post we tackle Possessed and beyond!
Last edited by Koumei on Thu Dec 10, 2015 12:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Count Arioch the 28th wrote:There is NOTHING better than lesbians. Lesbians make everything better.
User avatar
Stahlseele
King
Posts: 5974
Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2010 4:51 pm
Location: Hamburg, Germany

Post by Stahlseele »

Welcome, to IronHell.
Shrapnel wrote:
TFwiki wrote:Soon is the name of the region in the time-domain (familiar to all marketing departments, and to the moderators and staff of Fun Publications) which sees release of all BotCon news, club exclusives, and other fan desirables. Soon is when then will become now.

Peculiar properties of spacetime ensure that the perception of the magnitude of Soon is fluid and dependent, not on an individual's time-reference, but on spatial and cultural location. A marketer generally perceives Soon as a finite, known, yet unspeakable time-interval; to a fan, the interval appears greater, and may in fact approach the infinite, becoming Never. Once the interval has passed, however, a certain time-lensing effect seems to occur, and the time-interval becomes vanishingly small. We therefore see the strange result that the same fragment of spacetime may be observed, in quick succession, as Soon, Never, and All Too Quickly.
User avatar
maglag
Duke
Posts: 1912
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2015 10:17 am

Post by maglag »

Koumei wrote: So, Khorne gets his own Codex because the small children who play the game think the "SUPER ALWAYS ANGRY EXTRA VIOLENT FIGHT OWENS FIGHT RAGE BLOODFUCK SKULLSHITTER KILL KILL DEATH SMASH FEED ME MORE BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE JOHN CENA DO DO DO DOOOOO" is cool, and that generates money. The game won't get better until we kill every child and teenager on the planet.
Although your reasoning is amusing, there's actually a more simple reason for Khorne getting its own codex.

Mono-Khorne sucked the hardest in the "vanilla" kayos books.

Mono-Tzecenceth can be quite strong with the "vanilla" kayos books, and mono-Nurgle/Slaanesh isn't too shabby either. But mono-Khorne is pure pony shit. SSHHHIITTTT:
-No magic psykers.
-You don't have much in the way of ranged attacks.
-You're not as tough as nurgle or as fast as Slaanesh so you're gonna get shot to bits while trying to close in.
-No magic psykers.

So GW noticed that Khorne models were selling a lot less than the other kayos god's models, realized they had screwed up, and so they decided to make a new book where you can only take corn units from the vanilla kayos books but get a bunch of special rules that kinda make up for the fact you have neither proper guns nor magic psykers. You'll still be shot to bit trying to reach the enemy, but BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD will then allow you to summon reinforcements to the frontlines which may actually get into melee.

While mono Nurgle/Tzenceth/Slaanesh can just use their psykers to summon more daemons.
Last edited by maglag on Thu Dec 10, 2015 2:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.
ishy
Duke
Posts: 2404
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:59 pm

Post by ishy »

maglag wrote:So GW noticed that Khorne models were selling a lot less than the other kayos god's models, realized they had screwed up,
Yeah, sure, that sounds likely.
Gary Gygax wrote:The player’s path to role-playing mastery begins with a thorough understanding of the rules of the game
Bigode wrote:I wouldn't normally make that blanket of a suggestion, but you seem to deserve it: scroll through the entire forum, read anything that looks interesting in term of design experience, then come back.
Silent Wayfarer
Knight-Baron
Posts: 898
Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2009 11:35 am

Post by Silent Wayfarer »

The 8 point rule for the Corn army, does it turn you into a Bloodletter or a Bloodthirster?
If your religion is worth killing for, please start with yourself.
Koumei
Serious Badass
Posts: 13877
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
Location: South Ausfailia

Post by Koumei »

Sorry, I mistyped. You turn into a full-on Bloodthirster of Unfettered Fury. Assuming you have the model actually there to place (otherwise, just don't spend the points you fool). Similarly, the thing for Daemon Prince is actually "Has Wings if the model does". So basically, you always put wings on every DP model ever.

And that's hilarious, maglag. GW realising they've fucked up and doing something to fix it and making a faction useful by that.

laughingdarkeldargirls.jpg
laughtingbattlesisters.jpg
laughingorkgirls.jpg

No, it really is that they can release a Khorne-themed tampon and teenage boys will buy it. That's why Age of Sigmar started out as Space Marines vs Khornate Space Marines. This is also why they go so stupidly over the top with Khornate names/fluff/imagery, as seen in AoS with THE BLOODSECRATOR (drink once) who weaves spinal cords into his hair.

Basically, teenage/pre-teen boys all flock towards three armies:
1. Space Marines. Partially because they're the kind of people who play Halo and if they don't like something they call it gay, but at the same time their main obsessions aside from BIG GUNS are "big muscular men who only hang around other big muscular men". It's great they they work it all out at an early age, but they could at least be honest about it. Oh and also partly because it's pushed as the army for them (and this is honestly a good idea).
2. Orks. Because they think the idea is hilarious, and it gives them an excuse to shout a lot. Also they think you can just put a hundred green blobs on the table and charge forward and win. This never works for them. You really need to shy away from "lots of men" with Orks. And also really use screening.
3. KHOOOOOOOOORNE. Because of reasons I put above. (Also: they're Space Marines, BUT SPIKIER!)

You really don't see kids playing any other flavour of Chaos (despite Nurgle having the best Marines, and Tzeench (with Slaaneshi support) having the best Daemons). You don't see them playing Eldar. Or Tau. You will *occasionally* see them with Guard (focusing on tanks), or Necrons. But rarely.

GW did not realise their errors and then do something to fix that. Anything that helped the forces of Khorne (for starters, just doing away with the Warp Storm random table and Daemon Instability, which are army-wide problems for Daemons) is a pure coincidence.

Anyway, buckle in for some more reviewing. Once I get something to eat and drink.
Count Arioch the 28th wrote:There is NOTHING better than lesbians. Lesbians make everything better.
Post Reply