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Krusk
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Krusks Fighter

Post by Krusk »

Wrote this forever ago as an offhand "Shut the fuck up about fighters". It sort of proved the point that just adding +A million damage doesn't matter, and ended a debate but that was about it. I relink it whenever I see a "We should give the fighter +X damage each attack" proposal, and its usually effective at proving the point. Someone re-linked me to it and I think it might have merit.

Most people I see say a tome fighter is too powerful/annoying to use. This seems like a step between. It obviously still gets owned by a wizard, but could you play one in a game and not feel bored?

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards ... 28.55;wap2

What do you think of this? Would you let someone play it?

Skill Points 4+, add listen, spot, diplomacy, Gather info, heal, knowledge local, perform, profession, sense motive as class skills.

Level 1- Face Cutting - Choose One.
Two Handed Weapons - You can cut people's faces off with melee attacks. If they hit, the opponent must roll a Fort save or die. DC = 10 + Fighter Levels + Cha Mod

Two Weapon Fighting - You can cut people's faces off with lots of melee attacks. If they hit, the opponent must roll a Fort save or die. DC = 10 + ½ Fighter Levels + Cha Mod

Shielded Fighting - You can cut people's faces off with melee attacks while saving your own. If they hit, the opponent must roll a Fort save or die. DC = 10 + ½ Fighter Levels + Cha Mod. You add your Cha mod to saves against this power.

Ranged- You can shoot people's faces off with attacks. If they hit, the opponent must roll a fort save or die. DC 10 + ½ Fighter levels +cha mod

Level 1- Feat changes
You get a feat every level. They can be any feat, even epic ones. If they say fighter bonus feats, congrats you can ignore all prereqs except for other feats. (except diehard, dodge, and toughness, you can ignore those.) Lastly, if you spend an hour meditating in the morning you can swap all your fighter feats for new ones. [note, this was written for normal feats, not scaling feats. That probably matters]

Level 1- SR
You gain SR equal to your character level +10. You can turn it on or off as a free action.

Level 2- Super Human Stamina.
You heal an amount of fast healing equal to your fighter level/2.

Level 5- Super Smith
You can make appropriate magic items; weapons, armors, rings, and generally things that need forging are ok. Robe and wands are not. Ask your DM before you begin construction. You count as a wizard who knows the correct spell for doing this even though you are not. You also get the artificer crafting pool from now on at the same rate as them.

Level 6- Natural Born Leader
You get leadership. The feat.

Level 10, 12, 14, 16, 18- Cool Powers.
Pick one power at each of the above levels. Not more than once on the same one though.
1- “Cut through reality” You can cast plane shift. Use your sword and cut through the (Insert whatever cosmology you use here)
2- “It’s a Bird” You gain a fly speed equal to your move speed.
3- “You can move underwater as though you weren’t. Even arrows you shoot work fine. Also you don’t need air.
4- “Ghost faced Killaaaaa” You can become incorporeal at will.
5- “That’s broken” Each of your successful attacks also casts MDJ targeted on your specific foe. CL and DC = 10 + 1/2Fighter level + Cha mod.
6- “Stone Cold Stare” You can cast Dominate Monster just by looking at someone. Treat as a gaze attack, with a DC= 10 + ½ fighter level + Cha mod.
7- “And Stay Dead” When you kill something, you immediately cast Soul Bind as a free action. CL/DC= 10 + ½ Fighter level + Cha mod.
8- “You wouldn’t like me when I’m angry. You are always under the effect of “the shape change spell”. You know CL and DC.
9- “Faster than a what now?” Cast Time Stop at will.
10- “Dance for me” Cast Otto’s Irresistible Dance at will.

Level 11- Super Super Human Stamina
Your fast healing becomes regeneration.

Level 20- Can't die anymore.
If something would kill you it doesn't. (Face cutting overrides this power, pretend it’s like highlander or something)


Notes
Skills – Skills that let them contribute out of combat, for investigative purposes. Because everyone knows town guards are warriors but their leaders are fighters. Cops ought to be loosely good at sense motive and the like.

Face Cutting - You will note two handed weapon users get a higher save DC, but there will be less a round. Good for when you know its feasible for you to beat them. Two weapons and archers are for when you are spamming hoping the enemy rolls a 1. Shields are good at defending against this ability. This was intended to work on constructs and undead.

Feats- No longer stuck with unwanted ones, and you can experiment a bit.

Item making- Make whatever items you need for way cheaper than other people, make what you need in addition to loot found.

Good powers- Now you’ve got some utility.

Leadership- Fighters at level 6+ should be someone people know, and a force to be reckoned with. Maybe even training people to fight.
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erik
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Post by erik »

Level 1 fort Save or Die on all hits? Uhhhh. How did you never get shamed for posting this? I assume it was just so bad that nobody mocked it or that people thought you were trolling with a terribad class to mock Tiers.

Fighter Epic Feats every level (since you cannot qualify for any other Epic feats), is probably stupid broken. I haven't bothered to care what Fighter Epic Feats are.

Time Stop/Shapechange/Dominate Monster/MDJ/Irresistable Dance at will at level 10. I'm reading that right? What the hell?

Once you hit level 12 you can just spam whatever SoD you chose as your second "cool power" until you've won the encounter.

Aside from the absurd design principles that must underlie whatever inspired this, other things are just sloppy.

There's no reason why the SR needs to toggle as a free action.

Lazy to not just list the entire skill list.

I have no idea what this means: "Level 10, 12, 14, 16, 18- Cool Powers.
Pick one power at each of the above levels. Not more than once on the same one though.". You were worried someone would pick the same one twice?

There is precious little that is salvageable from this entire class. Fast Healing and Regeneration are appropriate. That's. About. It.

No. I would not let anyone play this and they should thank me for it. This kind of class design breaks games and ruins families. This is in no way an improvement over the Tome Fighter, and it is worse for the game than the SRD Fighter.

When having free Leadership is the weakest thing about your class, you know you fucked up.
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Kaelik
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Post by Kaelik »

If ever I wanted to give someone a demonstration of the literal worst possible class, I now don't have to write it, because I can just link them here. You have failed on literally every level:

1) Stupidly Broken.
2) Still fucking useless against a bunch of enemies.
3) Literally every single ability is poorly written.
4) Stupidly complicated for no reason.
5) Breaking the RNG just because breaking the RNG makes you feel good and not for any fucking reason.

Let's see if we can even cover all of this:

1) Your face cutting ability is dumb right from the beginning, because it is a fort save that doesn't explicitly effect objects, so you don't actually do anything to undead or constructs, which instantly makes constructs and undead the only thing you will ever face.

2) Your face cutting ability for Two handed fighting doesn't actually require that they be two handed fighting, so they have no reason to ever take the TWFing one. Ever.

3) Your THF thing scales faster than the other ability by +1 at level 1, and +10 at level 20. Are you under the false belief that you roll d4s at level 1 and d100s at level 20? If not, why did you think that making it basically worse at level 1 and objectively fucking better at level 20 was a good thing? JUST ADD A FLAT MODIFIER STOP MAKING THINGS SCALE STUPIDLY BECAUSE YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW RNGS WORK.

4) The save is based on Charisma. Which means Charisma is now the most important stat for Fighters, and no one will ever play a Dwarf Fighter ever again, because only Spellscales and Spirit Hellbred and Star Elves are Fighters.

5) Now Fighters have to wake up every morning and think about if they want to completely redesign 5-27 goddam feats every day. Extra complexity for practically no actual benefit. Clearly your favorite kind of complexity based on this class.

6) Super Smith---- god fucking damn if I had any hope for humanity left you would kill it. Sooooooo many problems. a) NOT EVERYONE NEEDS TO MAKE ITEMS! If one person can make items, then the party has items, if Fighters can't that is fucking fine. Of course, this class makes Fighters the only people who ever make items, since you get a crafting pool, and you can make items that might otherwise require a level 17 Wizard or Cleric. b) UGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG Do you not get that you need to define abilities? First off, you say "make" an item, not "craft" which is the term that has all the time and cost baggage that would explain how this ability actually fucking works. c) If this is a tome game, only being able to make Rings isn't even a problem. If it isn't a tome game, only being able to make rings is a super fucking itsy bitsy tiny disadvantage. d) YOU FUCKING IDIOT, SOME PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO PLAY GAMES WITHOUT DOUBLE WBL. THEY SHOULD HAVE THAT OPTION!

7) LEADERSHIP! Leadership is fucking stupid, fucking broken, and fucking dumb, and you are dumb for including it. And wholly shit, it should not be a mandatory class feature.

8) At level 10 you get an always on undispellable Shapechange spell, a spell that was already the most powerful spell in the game tied with Gate and Wish at level 17. No way that will be a balance problem. But hey, at least the fighter has to pay for this by grinding the game to a halt and making everyone else miserable while he flips through monster books literally every single fucking round! YAY POINTLESS COMPLEXITY!

9) At level 10, Fighters stop playing games with ranges, or time, or interaction, or the existence of sanity. They become literally omnipresent, and exist in a quantum state adjacent to all characters with all possible items in the game currently equipped. I think this is a good idea because I AM A FUCKING IDIOT!

10) Oh look, the fighter forces 15 saves on every attack roll. THIS IS A FEATURE NOT A BUG, MY GOAL IS TO DESTROY THE GAME BY FORCING EVERYONE TO GIVE UP BECAUSE THE FIGHTER WASTES ALL THE GAME TIME WITH THOUSANDS OF POINTLESS ROLLS!

11) The fighters casts an AoE spell with a huge area on successful attacks, do this spell he casts have the same AoE as the spell or is it only on the person hit... WELL THE ABILITY DOESN'T SAY, but fuck clarity, the important thing is making the game take the maximum amount of time, so let's just say that the Fighter forces the entire party to roll will saves or have all their items destroyed every time he is inside.

12) But hey, if your fighter is so fucking dumb that he takes planeshift, or a fly speed, or the ability to breathe underwater instead of THE ABILITY TO CAST A 9th LEVEL SPELL THAT LET'S HIM DO ALL THOSE THINGS, then it might not immediately break the balance of the game.


But for the sake of argument, let's pretend all those problems were fixed (By which I mean, delete the entire class after level 1, because every single thing you wrote after that was just you being literally the dumbest person) if the question you are asking is: What if every single attack a fighter made was a save or die? I would point out that we have two classes and a feat that already do that, and all three of those things (Tome Monk, Tome Soldier, Combat School) are all way more limited than what you are proposing in at least one if not all ways, and one of them (Combat School) is still incredibly problematic.

So in short, even if your class wasn't literally the dumbest in every way, you still have provided literally nothing to the world, except evidence of the fact that no one should ever trust your opinion on anything ever at any point.
Last edited by Kaelik on Fri Dec 04, 2015 2:05 am, edited 5 times in total.
DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?
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Post by erik »

Ah, it looks like there's no such thing as a Fighter Epic Feat, but apparently there are epic feats with minimal pre-reqs. I just assumed they all required level 21+. Some of the minimal pre-reqs ones are actually quite reasonable, but mostly you'd probably just take maybe the +30 HP to set level 1-2 on easy mode, and then take +1 Cha each level, since Fighters apparently only need Cha to win in this derby.

Getting free AoO whenever someone casts defensively is nice (Spellcasting Harrier[Epic]), but how does that measure up to another +1 Cha? I mean you do want your 30+ DC Fort SoD on every hit at level 10, right?

(class spoilered due to my concern of the ubernoob effect, and I'd hate to lose a valuable resource to link to as an example of class design done wrong as badly as possible)
What do you think of this? Would you let someone play it?

Skill Points 4+, add listen, spot, diplomacy, Gather info, heal, knowledge local, perform, profession, sense motive as class skills.

Level 1- Face Cutting - Choose One.
Two Handed Weapons - You can cut people's faces off with melee attacks. If they hit, the opponent must roll a Fort save or die. DC = 10 + Fighter Levels + Cha Mod

Two Weapon Fighting - You can cut people's faces off with lots of melee attacks. If they hit, the opponent must roll a Fort save or die. DC = 10 + ½ Fighter Levels + Cha Mod

Shielded Fighting - You can cut people's faces off with melee attacks while saving your own. If they hit, the opponent must roll a Fort save or die. DC = 10 + ½ Fighter Levels + Cha Mod. You add your Cha mod to saves against this power.

Ranged- You can shoot people's faces off with attacks. If they hit, the opponent must roll a fort save or die. DC 10 + ½ Fighter levels +cha mod

Level 1- Feat changes
You get a feat every level. They can be any feat, even epic ones. If they say fighter bonus feats, congrats you can ignore all prereqs except for other feats. (except diehard, dodge, and toughness, you can ignore those.) Lastly, if you spend an hour meditating in the morning you can swap all your fighter feats for new ones. [note, this was written for normal feats, not scaling feats. That probably matters]

Level 1- SR
You gain SR equal to your character level +10. You can turn it on or off as a free action.

Level 2- Super Human Stamina.
You heal an amount of fast healing equal to your fighter level/2.

Level 5- Super Smith
You can make appropriate magic items; weapons, armors, rings, and generally things that need forging are ok. Robe and wands are not. Ask your DM before you begin construction. You count as a wizard who knows the correct spell for doing this even though you are not. You also get the artificer crafting pool from now on at the same rate as them.

Level 6- Natural Born Leader
You get leadership. The feat.

Level 10, 12, 14, 16, 18- Cool Powers.
Pick one power at each of the above levels. Not more than once on the same one though.
1- “Cut through reality” You can cast plane shift. Use your sword and cut through the (Insert whatever cosmology you use here)
2- “It’s a Bird” You gain a fly speed equal to your move speed.
3- “You can move underwater as though you weren’t. Even arrows you shoot work fine. Also you don’t need air.
4- “Ghost faced Killaaaaa” You can become incorporeal at will.
5- “That’s broken” Each of your successful attacks also casts MDJ targeted on your specific foe. CL and DC = 10 + 1/2Fighter level + Cha mod.
6- “Stone Cold Stare” You can cast Dominate Monster just by looking at someone. Treat as a gaze attack, with a DC= 10 + ½ fighter level + Cha mod.
7- “And Stay Dead” When you kill something, you immediately cast Soul Bind as a free action. CL/DC= 10 + ½ Fighter level + Cha mod.
8- “You wouldn’t like me when I’m angry. You are always under the effect of “the shape change spell”. You know CL and DC.
9- “Faster than a what now?” Cast Time Stop at will.
10- “Dance for me” Cast Otto’s Irresistible Dance at will.

Level 11- Super Super Human Stamina
Your fast healing becomes regeneration.

Level 20- Can't die anymore.
If something would kill you it doesn't. (Face cutting overrides this power, pretend it’s like highlander or something)


Notes
Skills – Skills that let them contribute out of combat, for investigative purposes. Because everyone knows town guards are warriors but their leaders are fighters. Cops ought to be loosely good at sense motive and the like.

Face Cutting - You will note two handed weapon users get a higher save DC, but there will be less a round. Good for when you know its feasible for you to beat them. Two weapons and archers are for when you are spamming hoping the enemy rolls a 1. Shields are good at defending against this ability. This was intended to work on constructs and undead.

Feats- No longer stuck with unwanted ones, and you can experiment a bit.

Item making- Make whatever items you need for way cheaper than other people, make what you need in addition to loot found.

Good powers- Now you’ve got some utility.

Leadership- Fighters at level 6+ should be someone people know, and a force to be reckoned with. Maybe even training people to fight.
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Kaelik
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Post by Kaelik »

erik wrote:Ah, it looks like there's no such thing as a Fighter Epic Feat, but apparently there are epic feats with minimal pre-reqs. I just assumed they all required level 21+. Some of the minimal pre-reqs ones are actually quite reasonable, but mostly you'd probably just take maybe the +30 HP to set level 1-2 on easy mode, and then take +1 Cha each level, since Fighters apparently only need Cha to win in this derby.

Getting free AoO whenever someone casts defensively is nice (Spellcasting Harrier[Epic]), but how does that measure up to another +1 Cha? I mean you do want your 30+ DC Fort SoD on every hit at level 10, right?
Presumably he means the Epic Fighter Bonus Feat List:

Epic Fighter Bonus Feat List
Armor Skin, Combat Archery, Damage Reduction, Devastating Critical, Dire Charge, Distant Shot, Epic Endurance, Epic Leadership, Epic Prowess, Energy Resistance, Epic Toughness, Epic Weapon Focus, Epic Weapon Specialization, Exceptional Deflection, Improved Combat Reflexes, Improved Manyshot, Improved Stunning Fist, Improved Whirlwind Attack, Infinite Deflection, Instant Reload, Legendary Commander, Legendary Rider, Legendary Wrestler, Overwhelming Critical, Penetrate Damage Reduction, Perfect Two-Weapon Fighting, Reflect Arrows, Spellcasting Harrier, Storm of Throws, Superior Initiative, Swarm of Arrows, Two-Weapon Rend, Uncanny Accuracy. In addition to the feats on this list, the fighter may treat any feat designated as a fighter bonus feat, but not listed here, as being on his or her bonus feat list.

So presumably you should take Epic Leadership at level 1, and have as your cohort a level 1 Fighter with Epic Leadership and a level 1 Fighter as his cohort who is also a level 1 Fighter with Epic Leadership!

VICTORY!

Alternatively, Improved Combat Reflexes and Uncanny Accuracy make hitting with your save or dies more likely and/or give more attacks.
DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?
The U.S. isn't a democracy and if you think it is, you are a rube.

That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
Krusk
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Post by Krusk »

erik wrote: (class spoilered due to my concern of the ubernoob effect, and I'd hate to lose a valuable resource to link to as an example of class design done wrong as badly as possible)
lol, nah Ill leave it up forever. I did something dumb on the internet, it happens. Please link often, if it helps.

So my intent wasn't so much to see if it were perfect and amazing. Thats why i put all the context about "I wrote this forever ago off hand". It was more to see if there was anything worth saving in the general concept. Obviously a lot of it needs a lot of polish before its actually usable (apparently, even if then). I was mostly looking for "Is it worth finishing", and the clear response I got was "No, you asshole." so I won't.

Some specific responses.
- Epic Feats - Yeah, you probably spot ban those for cases like leadership.
- Level 12 spam whatever SOD you want - Basically. Some should probably have a cooldown to it like planeshift and timestop though. like 1 encounter or something to steal 4e mechanics.
- Save or die at will at level 1 - You basically have that anyway. A greatsword and 18 strength is 2d6+6. Most things have 8HP or less. It came off the idea that people were counting what the average damage per level should be, and I said "This is faster, here". And just gave them a save or die instead.
- level 10 - yeah, a single awesome spell at level 10. Shapechange and dominate monster might be a little much, for that level, but the others? sure.
- sloppy- yeah. Did you read the context for how it was written?
- SR toggle as a free action - many buff/beneficial spells allow SR. This allows your team to buff you.

kaelik
- stupidly complicated - I dont really think its that complicated. Except the feat swapping, which is a pain in the ass and in practice I imagine would be someone having 2-3 feat builds they rotate through.
- affect objects - My notes said it should probably have that edited in to work somehow.
- Two handed/two weapon - it should obviously specify you have to use the right style.
- D4s vs d100s. I really have no idea what you mean. The intent was two handed has a better DC and the others give more options for people to roll. I don't think anyone would ever be failing these DCs often. considering worst case, its DC 20+cha or 30+cha at level 20. At level 1 you are looking at DC 10-15. That doesn't sound too high, considering you probably died from the sword damage anyway.
- based on charisma - that arguement can be applied to basing it off any stats. I mean, yeah a high charisma fighter is unusual, but not when you consider any protagonist in anything. But I don't really want to debate how poorly defined charisma is, so sure this can be true.
- Crafting - It can make more than rings? It can make swords and armor and shit. Just not wands and scrolls. d - They can play any of the other big pile of classes that don't get free items then?
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Kaelik
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Post by Kaelik »

Krusk wrote:- stupidly complicated - I dont really think its that complicated. Except the feat swapping, which is a pain in the ass and in practice I imagine would be someone having 2-3 feat builds they rotate through.
You gave them Shapechange and Disjunction. Literally the two most complicated spells to use in the game. And Shapechange gives almost every other ability so there is no reason not to take it at level 10.
Krusk wrote:- D4s vs d100s. I really have no idea what you mean. The intent was two handed has a better DC and the others give more options for people to roll. I don't think anyone would ever be failing these DCs often. considering worst case, its DC 20+cha or 30+cha at level 20. At level 1 you are looking at DC 10-15. That doesn't sound too high, considering you probably died from the sword damage anyway.
BLARGARWARGARAL!

1) If you don't understand the most basic fucking math in the fucking universe, that +1 is different from +10, then I don't know how to fucking help you. At level 1, the DC is one point higher. At level 10, the DC is 10 points higher. THAT MAKES NO FUCKING SENSE. Only a goddam idiot would do that.
2) If you think that no one is ever likely to be failing the saving throws on spells cast by a Sorcerer (much less a Sorcerer with +10 to his DC) then you clearly are living in a different universe than everyone else, and nothing you say will ever make sense to anyone.
Krusk wrote:based on charisma - that arguement can be applied to basing it off any stats. I mean, yeah a high charisma fighter is unusual, but not when you consider any protagonist in anything. But I don't really want to debate how poorly defined charisma is, so sure this can be true.
No it can't. It definitely can't. Saying that all the Charisma boosting races are fucking Sorcerer races, and all the Charisma penalty races are fucking fighter races is not an argument that applies to any stat, because it only applies to fucking Charisma. Did you even read the argument?
Krusk wrote:They can play any of the other big pile of classes that don't get free items then?
No they can't. If you play in a party with one of these fucks, then you get double WBL whether you like it or not (alternative bonus option, you are like some fuck with Vow of Poverty who refuses to ride horses in a timed adventure, because you want to fuck over your party to prove your independence). The artificer is a bad class for like 5000 reasons, but one of them is because it forces the party to have double WBL (or triple).
DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?
The U.S. isn't a democracy and if you think it is, you are a rube.

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Post by erik »

The problems with the class hit almost every note of bad design. I point out the sloppiness just because that is merely one of the check-boxes on the list.

The problems with your SoD are that
-it does not scale appropriately (one is not like the others for no good reason, low levels TWF/ranged wins, higher levels THF wins)
- DC outpaces full casters who get a limited allotment of SoD
- in addition to being unlimited use.
That charisma is the primary stat of this class isn't a dealbreaker, but it seems to be accidental. If the DCs weren't based upon Cha there would be no other reason to care about that stat. It's forced.

The argument that an unlimited SoD is kosher because you can already kill stuff with damage is weak. For one thing, you are still dealing that damage. For another thing that is only at level 1. And it certainly isn't faster on the gaming table since now you are rolling damage and forcing someone else to roll saving throws. So the argument that it speeds things up is only true to the extent that combats are won faster, not because the mechanic is smoother. Quite the opposite.

Most enemies are not supposed to be killed in one hit by damage as you advance. Making everything die in one hit almost guaranteed is disruptive unless everyone can be doing that, which is a very different game however.

This thing shares next to no DNA with fighter class, so even the name is poor design. It is closer to a warlock as it revolves around the SoD and later the game breaker at will SLAs.

Epic feats is nothing but problems. Out the gate that you need to spot house rule, even in the description, which is a sign that this ability is a hot mess. It just throws balance off further for no good reason. It brings a huge hassle of bookkeeping for no good reason. Why is it even there?

I said there was no reason for creating a separate mechanic for SR toggle because that option already exists as a standard action, just not as a free action. Making special cases just for a single class without good reason is bad design.

At level 10 you are gaining one of the most powerful level 17 caster abilities, except at-will, as a SLA, and with a hyper-boosted casting stat.

If you want to be able to craft items that's fine, but why throw the artificer garbage on top of it all? Surely not because you felt this class was shortchanged.

Part of class design is figuring out how your class fits with others. This one doesn't fit with anything else. Having one in your party ruins the game for everyone. From level 1 onward there's no point at which it is acceptable, it just gets less and less appropriate.


IF you wanted something to salvage, you could start from scratch with an at will SoD class or better yet, save or suck. Closer to a warlock or hexblade than a fighter.

Things to keep in mind would be keeping the DCs level appropriate, providing a role for the character without making everyone else useless. Save or Die doesn't interact well with other party members unlike damage, which is why handing out lesser status effects is complimentary to having an adventuring party.

If you want to keep this as a fightan man class, leave the most potent status effects via weapons only, especially melee. Don't bother mechanically differentiating TWF/THF/Sword and Board. No good comes of that. Just give one per round and let the players organically choose how they fight. If you want, you can tie a few certain hexes to styles, but they should all operate under the same mechanics.

I actually do approve of giving out SLAs to classes to give them something comparable to casters on a limited basis, but you did it all wrong. Do not under any circumstances hand out higher level spells well before primary casters get them. And if you hand out SLAs, don't make them at will unless they are coming on late enough that casters aren't eclipsed. -5 or so levels is probably a decent limit. Unlimited CLW at level 6 isn't bad. Unlimited Fireball at level 10 may be okay. But don't give those out like candy either. Just a few.

I'm half tempted to write one up as an example since I'm awake at 3am here (poor kiddo has been throwing up all night), but I'm not interested in writing out all the various hexes/status effect jabs right now.
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