[OSSR]DSA 1st Edition Advanced Rules

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Rasumichin
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[OSSR]DSA 1st Edition Advanced Rules

Post by Rasumichin »

[OSSR]DSA 1st Edition Advanced Rules

The year is 1985. German boardgame company Schmidt Spiele has published the first edition of DSA (Das Schwarze Auge; known as The Dark Eye in English) one year ago - originally because they couldn't secure the rights for the German D&D translation, so they just decided to make their own game.
1st edition DSA is a fairly typical D&D clone for the time. Instead of roll over, you get roll under with 1d20. Instead of armor making you harder to hit, it absorbs damage if you get hit. You get active parry as well because of that. And you get a lot more starting hit points than in D&D - 35 if you're a dwarf (DSA treats races as classes up until 4th edition), 20 if you're a puny wizard. The system is level-based and you get to level up to level 21 to drive the point home that your character is better than in D&D. But you only get 5 stats instead of 6 - courage, intelligence, charisma, dexterity and anal circumference strength. You roll stats in order and if they aren't good enough to play as a dwarf or wizard or at least as a fighter or elf, you receive additional punishment by having to play as a generic adventurer who gets none of the extras that the other classes receive.

Because the basic rules clock in at a meager 64 pages with lots of white space and black and white pictures of lackluster quality, Schmidt Spiele decides that maybe it's time to give people more rules and an actual setting description. So they put out another box set, which looks like this:
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Strictly speaking, the title translates to "adventure expansion game", which sounds as hilariously lame and unwieldy in English as it does in German.
Inside of the box, there's a new screen for Mister Cavern (who is affectionately known as the Master in DSA), an expanded rules booklet with 64 stapled black and white pages, a map of the continent of Aventuria and another 64 page booklet with setting description. Which i'm going to start this review with. To make the oldschool production values more bearable, i am accompanied by a bit of leftover weed and Bombay Saphire gin, which i already have to get another glass of.

Introduction

This booklet is written by late Ulrich Kiesow, who was creative director for DSA until well into 3rd edition. The credits mention 5 other people contributing to it, and they're basically Kiesow's gaming group. Ina Kramer, one of said 5 people, also did all of the artwork. Some of her NPC portraits still get recycled today, such as Fran-Horas the Bloody, emperor and demonologist, who has been abducted to the Netherhells over a thousand years ago, but which this book still wants you to give a fuck about. They succeeded at that for a lot of German gamers, in no small part because Fran-Horas the Bloody looks like this:

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That guy's basically Kosheij the Deathless. Problem being that immortality is about the last thing you want when you get physically dragged into the Netherhells by pissed-off demons.

In the half page introduction, Kiesow mentions that the publisher got flooded with letters from fans who had all kinds of questions to the authors. Like, what the stats for a blowgun are or what the game's setting is like. Which is why he's now putting out the notes he made for his gaming group. He calls the 64 page booklet an "almanach" that describes Aventuria "in all of its details". Which is downright hilarious when you consider that in DSA4, the description of the continent has bloated to more than 3000 pages.

Chapter 1: The Origin of Aventuria

After the introduction, we're off to a 3-page chapter that gives us various creation myths for the continent. Half of the first page of that is made up by headlines to waste space. Then we get to hear about how the world was originally as flat as a pancake in the pan until some guy killed a couple wolf cubs and the parent wolfs got super pissed and because they're the giant sky wolves they tore up the pancake-shaped land to create mountain ranges and the places where they took a piss turned into lakes.
This is what Nivesian nomads actually believe. I need another sip of gin now.
After that, there's a one paragraph account of how Rastullah (Aventuria's not-Allah) created humans out of sand and his own blood. Then we get half a page about the dwarfs who think that their creator Ingerimm created the perfect dwarven master race. Then he stepped out of the dwarven mines, got blinded by the sun which caused him temporary madness and he created the rest of the world, which all sucks due to him being crazy at the time. The dwarfs don't really have an explanation for how there can be a blinding sun outside of the mines when Ingerimm hasn't yet created the outside world, but i'm fortunately too stoned to care.
The next account is from the people of Maraskan, who think the world is a giant frisbee that the hermaphroditic twin gods Rur and Gror throw at each other. Then we get paragraph that makes fun of a sect that believes that the world is actually spherical and orbits the sun and then the chapter closes with the creation myth of the Twelve Gods, which i'll talk about later in the religion chapter.

Chapter 2: Geography

This chapter is 4 pages long. One of these is taken up by a map of the continent, and the last page is 3/4 empty. The chapter begins with Kiesow telling the readers that medieval cartography totaly sucked and that they always have to keep in mind that this chapter tells them much more about Aventurian geography than the denizens of that continent will ever know and that not even the gods will ever have a view of that place that's as detailed as the map in that chapter. Well...the map's outlines are still valid 30 years later, but it is missing dozens of major cities that where just added later. I can't find the map online, so here's a more recent version to give you an impression of what we're talking about:

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The people who believe that the world is a frisbee live on the big island to the east. Nowadays, they get eaten by Cronenberg-style body horror demons a lot.

We learn that Aventuria is one of three continents on a planet called Ethra (it's called Dere in German; both names are anagrams of "Earth"). Ethra is the third planet in a yellow dwarf solar system with nine planets in total. The continent of Aventuria is tiny, notably smaller than Europe. Because the climate there is conveniently wacky, you still get to play in all of the climate zones found on Earth, from polar icy wastes to deserts to tropical jungles. The human population is estimated as 1,2 million people, which never really worked out unless you declared most of the continent a wasteland, but whatever.
The text mentions that there's orks up north who live in an area imaginatively referred to as Orkland and that they eat practically everything, including insects.
Then it tells you about a new subtype of elf introduced in this box set, the wood elfs. It stresses that these only live in a single northern mountain range, the Salamader Stones, and that they do not venture outside of that place and that it's therefore highly unlikely that player characters will ever be these wood elfs that we've just been introduced to as a supposedly playable race because fuck you. That "yes, we have wood elfs, but please don't play them" attitude has somehow persisted over the editions and has been eagerly sucked up by a lot of players because they're stupid shitcocks who don't want you to play as an elf who regularly joins his tribe's ecstatic hippie hivemind by eating shrooms and who uses magic to run across the treetops. The latter two facts got introduced in later editions, though, so back to 1st edition.

Goblins get a brief mention. DSA goblins look like this:

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DSA orks are of the hairy variety as well, but their fur is black.

Then, we're off to a paragraph about the Middenrealm, the biggest political entity of Aventuria. We'll get back to these assholes in later chapters. After that, we get passing mentions of the not-Renaissance-French/Italians of Horasia and the not-Arab Novadi of the Khôm desert. The last two paragraphs are about the South of the continent with not-Native Americans in the jungles and the people of Slaver's Bay Al'Anfa, who later developed into a mix of ancient Romans and Conquistadors who export tons of drugs from the jungle and their plantations and who also happen to live in a theocracy run by the priests of Boron, the god of death, silence, forgetting, sleep, psychiatry, dreams, prophecy and getting high as fuck. As you see, Boron is kinda greedy with his domains. You can meet his avatar in one of the DSA2 adventures and he's actually a pretty cool guy, so i'll get myself another gin and light one up in his honor.
Last edited by Rasumichin on Wed Nov 18, 2015 11:42 pm, edited 3 times in total.
schpeelah
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Post by schpeelah »

The wiki you're hotlinking from does not support hotlinking. You're the only one who can see the pictures, because you have them in your cache.
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angelfromanotherpin
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Post by angelfromanotherpin »

I can see them, and I don't have them in my cache.
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Post by Axebird »

Same, they work fine for me.
schpeelah
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Post by schpeelah »

Well, they're broken for me and I'm getting a 403 forbidden when I try to go to the pics' source.
Rasumichin
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Post by Rasumichin »

Damn, i have no idea what's going on there. I'll finish the post i'm working on and try if i can fix the links tomorrow so that they work for everyone.
Antariuk
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Post by Antariuk »

Yeah, finally someone doing a DSA review :)
I've recently managed to get a spot in a DSA 3 group of veteran players, so hopefully this will get me prepared for what's coming.
"No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife between the shoulder blades will seriously cramp his style." - Steven Brust
Rasumichin
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Post by Rasumichin »

Chapter 3: History of Aventuria

This chapter clocks in at 9 pages and would more aptly be called History of the Middenrealm. The Middenrealm is, at that point in the metaplot, the major player in Aventuria, but it's been in decline for centuries. It used to rule the entire continent in the days of Rohal the Wise, who keeps showing up in the metaplot from time to time and unsurprisingly turns out to be one of the biggest Master Penis NPCs.

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Rohal's headgear is appropriately phallic for a Master Penis NPC

The chapter doesn't get in medias res, though. It begins with a warning that the historic accounts are highly unreliable and illustrates this with two conflicting stories about the 5th war between Nostria and Andergast. Nostria and Andergast are two tiny backwater kingdoms in the Northwest of Aventuria who have regualry been at war with each other for about a millenium. The Nostrian account of the battle is boastful propaganda about valiant Nostrian knights who successfully venture into Andergastian territory in retaliation of a border raid. The version from Andergast describes how cowardly Nostrian invaders get beaten back by a heroic unit of Andergastians. Both sides claim to have only lost one man while slaughtering hundreds of enemies it's all blatantly racist bullshit to make sure you don't miss how unreliable all of it is.
Both Nostria and Andergast have stuck around and are largely supposed to be comic relief. Two hillbilly fiefdoms brewing spinach beer and having a hundred different varieties of preparing a weird kind of flounder (Nostria) or producing ham and marrying their cousins (Andergast). These factions exist mostly so you can have this:

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Springfield later gets raided by orks. Shelbyville gets raided by vikings.

After establishing that the narrator is unreliable, we're off to discussing calendars. That part reads as if you've just been sent back to school and your teacher is trying to be funny and engaging and fails utterly. But it works at establishing the scope of the setting. We go back in time about two thousand years, learn how Aventuria got settled by humans from a neighboring continent and how they have their first violent run-in with the dwarfs. Then they expand their territory and have their first violent run-in with the trolls. Which turns into a war lasting 20 years that almost wipes out the entire troll population. The troll genocide results in the settlers leaving their borders unprotected and they get run over by orks, goblins and ogres. Then there's battles with demons and gods getting involved, there's wars against the not-Arabian Novadis and the not-Persian Tulamidians, there's a period where the people suffer a reign of terror under the clerics of Praios (the god of sun and law and hating wizards) who still happens to be the main god of the pantheon inspite of his clerics being pompous dicks who have a history of forming mobs with torches and pitchforks. After persecuting sexy witches and clerics of the other Twelve Gods for a couple generations, the priest emperors get kicked out by Rohal the Wise aka Penis Cap guy, who brings about an age of prosperity, but stays on the throne for more than 160 years without aging a day. People get creeped out, start forming a mob with torches and pitchforks because old habits die hard and Rohal decides that it's time to get the fuck out of Dodge. Problem is that nobody is sure who should succeed him, so we get the Mage Wars. Which are like the Clone Wars in a lot of ways: they start as a passing mention and you think "woah, that sounds awesome", then the franchise actually does something with them decades later and it all turns out to be total horseshit. Seriously, fuck this crap:
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As is customary for DSA adventures, none of the cool things on the cover actually happen when you play this.
After the mage wars, we slowly get into recent history. Turns out the current dynasty is a total failure and about to lose massive amounts of territory.
Almost all of this chapter is a setup for that. The players get primed for the next 30 irl years of metaplot development. Several of the events in this chapter are foreshadowings of future developments, even some of the NPCs show up again, all the supposed history is nothing but a hidden introduction to shit getting real in Aventuria.

Which would have been an awesome idea if these events wouldn't have gotten resolved through railroady adventures full of cut scenes, plot holes and the unavoidable Master Penis NPCs.

That's it for the first part of the book.
Coming up next: gods, the peoples of Aventuria and a selection of monsters.
Last edited by Rasumichin on Sat Nov 14, 2015 6:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Lago PARANOIA
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Post by Lago PARANOIA »

I'm only familiar with DSA via the Realms of Arkania PC trilogy.

The trilogy is really oldschool computer game design, with all of the baggage it entails. The adaptation also introduces a number of design flaws from porting the ruleset faithfully, such as useless classes, useless skills, and idiotic randomized character advancement. And any particular game has lots of layers of complication that don't really pay off in every or any game. But it's still a fairly fun pre-Diablo II cRPG that has excellent dungeon design and has a lot of little things to immerse you into the experience of being a collection of Conan-level murderhobos who get continually dragged into conspiracies. It's pretty much the cream of the crop for first-person, multiple-character dungeon crawlers and if you're interested in the genre at all that's probably the best place to start despite its mean-spirited 'fuck you for not reading the manual and/or predicting the future' design philosophy common to other RPGs of the era.
Josh Kablack wrote:Your freedom to make rulings up on the fly is in direct conflict with my freedom to interact with an internally consistent narrative. Your freedom to run/play a game without needing to understand a complex rule system is in direct conflict with my freedom to play a character whose abilities and flaws function as I intended within that ruleset. Your freedom to add and change rules in the middle of the game is in direct conflict with my ability to understand that rules system before I decided whether or not to join your game.

In short, your entire post is dismissive of not merely my intelligence, but my agency. And I don't mean agency as a player within one of your games, I mean my agency as a person. You do not want me to be informed when I make the fundamental decisions of deciding whether to join your game or buying your rules system.
Rasumichin
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Post by Rasumichin »

Antariuk wrote:Yeah, finally someone doing a DSA review :)
I've recently managed to get a spot in a DSA 3 group of veteran players, so hopefully this will get me prepared for what's coming.
Are you playing the Borbarad campaign/7 Gezeichnete by any chance?
Some of this 1st edition stuff actually foreshadows parts of it, but a lot of the background for that particular campaign only got introduced in 3rd edition. They added tons of details to the magic rules and cosmology just to set that campaign up. But the stuff that's coming up in my next review post is still relevant to the game even today.
Lago PARANOIA wrote: The adaptation also introduces a number of design flaws from porting the ruleset faithfully, such as useless classes, useless skills, and idiotic randomized character advancement.
Oh god, yes. Randomized character advancement was a huge problem in the first 3 editions (i think Realms of Arcania is based on DSA2, but it could also be 3rd ed, which is just DSA2 with glaringly obvious rules exploits). Every time you leveled up, you had to roll over the attribute or skill rating you wanted to raise, so if you where already good at something and wanted to get even better at it, you had a good chance of wasting that level.
They finally stopped that crap in DSA4, but they retained the useless classes and useless skills that had started creeping in during 2nd and 3rd edition and actually added even more of them. It's a lot like WHFRP in that you can play rat catchers or farmers or bakers, but these classes are not assigned to you randomly - there's actually people who voluntarily play as potters or subsistence farmers when they could just as well stat up gladiators or necromancers or goblin boar riders.
Antariuk
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Post by Antariuk »

Rasumichin wrote: Are you playing the Borbarad campaign/7 Gezeichnete by any chance?
Some of this 1st edition stuff actually foreshadows parts of it, but a lot of the background for that particular campaign only got introduced in 3rd edition. They added tons of details to the magic rules and cosmology just to set that campaign up. But the stuff that's coming up in my next review post is still relevant to the game even today.
To my knowledge we're going to play a range of official DSA 3 modules, some of which are sitting on our GM's shelf still being shrinkwrapped. So I think its not going to be Borbarad and company. All we did so far was character generation, which involved rolling on more weird origin tables than I comfortable with and make the results somehow work for your character. My tulamidian Mage ended up with a magic item, so I guess that's not so bad, but to be honest I have no idea.
Last edited by Antariuk on Sat Nov 14, 2015 3:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Rasumichin
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Post by Rasumichin »

Part II : The gods of Aventuria

The numbering of the chapters for this thing is all over the place. Part I was divided into three chapters, part II is just one 4 page chapter until we're off to Part III. The 4-page chapter/part/whatever we're dealing with here introduces the Twelve Gods, Aventuria's most important pantheon. Or maybe that should be translated as Twelfgods, because it's a single word.
The first thing we get to see of the Twelfgods is a two-page spread of this frieze that gives you a nice view of Tsa's and Rahja's tits and allows you to have dick waving contests with Praios and Efferd:

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Hesinde is somehow missing in that version of picture. In case you where wondering, she also shows us her boobs and is holding up a snake, both of which are things that she does a lot.

In spite of mostly being ripped off from classic sources, the Twelfgods quickly developed into a defining feature of the game world. Most of the human population worships them, the months in Aventuria are named after them (July is Praios because sunshine, August is Rondra because thunderstorms and so on) and at some point they also made up pretty neat symbols for them that could be printed on merchandise:
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The writeup at this point is pretty bare bones, but all the basics are there. We don't get all of the details that where added over the years, like how the various popes are called or how you can tell an inquisitor and a sun mystic apart by their choice of dress, but the text delivers the core information for each deity in a short paragraph. Some of it is kinda generic (Praios is the all-seeing god of law and sunshine, Efferd is basically Poseidon), some of it falls more on the quirky side. Phex, the trickster god of merchants and thieves, is worshipped by libertarians who don't tell anyone they're clerics of Phex to make it easier for them to steal your shit or rip you off in a business deal. The libertarian trickster pope is known as The Moon and is in such deep cover that even the other clerics have no idea who he is. But whenever you see pictures of Phex clerics, they dress like super obvious rogues or have poorly hidden tattoos of their god's symbol.

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Yup, looks totally trustworthy to me.

As you can probably guess from that pic, the clerics of Rondra are basically crusaders. They are really into martyrdom, which is a good thing because their code of honor requires them to employ tactics that are openly suicidal. Because there's so damn many opportunities for crusades and martyrdom in the recent metaplot, the church is now in accute danger of dying out.

It later turns out that two of the Twelve are secretly gods of the lizard people. Ironically, these eldritch horrors are Tsa, the love and peace hippie goddess of youth, creativity and rebirth, and Hesinde, goddess of art, education and alchemy. Not exactly the gods you'd suspect to be worshipped alongside Dagon and Cthulhu, but that's the way DSA lizard people roll.
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If we just spell these deities as Zsssaah and H'Szint, the mammals will never figure out what's up.

When clerics get confronted with the similarities between their snake cult and the lizard people's snake cult, they usually rationalize it as "oh, some of our missionaries must have been here before." If they are unable to rationalize this and freak out, they end up in an insane asylum where monks and nuns of Boron administer liberal amounts of sedatives.

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Some of Boron's clerics also handle the whole euthanasia business, so you'd better tell them that the medication is working.

After telling us about the Twelfgods, the chapter then lays the foundation for an endless number of gamers playing their clerics as lawful stupid fanatics who commit all kinds of atrocities in the name of the Twelve. Simply by telling us that Aventurians do not believe in their gods, they know that they exist because they can expect to witness some divine magic once in a while. Which has been reprinted in every edition so far and has always been viewed as a license to shout RONDRA WILLST IT while killing fellow PCs for unhonorable combat tactics like using magic or crossbows or whatever.
That never made any kind of sense, because it's a fantasy setting where the supernatural is commonplace, so a cleric healing you with prayer is nothing special when a wizard can also heal you by waving a wand around and reciting a formula (in most editions, the wizard is also a lot better at this than the cleric). Not to mention that the Twelfgods are a classic polytheistic pantheon where the various gods are often directly at odds with each other - Phex wants reaganomics because he's into social darwinism while Peraine wants free public health care because she's into compassion. Travia wants you to be monogamous and prudish, Rahja wants you to explore your sexuality and attend the swinger parties at her temples. Firun wants you to hunt your food, Tsa wants you to be vegetarian. Praios wants you to be lawful, Phex wants you to steal gems for his lair. Ingerimm demands that his clerics never put out a fire, Efferd demands that his clerics eat sushi because cooking your food is a sin. It's kinda obvious that religious laws in Aventuria are not absolutes, but i guess some people just want to burn heretics.

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Can't we all just get along and have a LARP with Rahja clerics?

After ruining hundreds of gaming groups by encouraging people to play their clerics as raging assholes, the chapter explains to us why they don't give stats to the gods and that the gods do not interfere directly - in spite of what they said just one paragraph ago and in spite of the history section making a big deal out of direct divine intervention during the battle that led to the formation of the Middenrealm.
They also tell us that you'll never run into one of the gods in a dungeon, but it seems they changed their mind afterwards, because there's several adventures in DSA1 and 2 where that happens. The next paragraph also gives you plot hooks where the gods work as Mr. Johnson and hire the group to steal artifacts for them, but that doesn't count because they're in disguise.
Last edited by Rasumichin on Sat Nov 14, 2015 6:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
schpeelah
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Post by schpeelah »

Rasumichin wrote:It later turns out that two of the Twelve are secretly gods of the lizard people. Ironically, these eldritch horrors are Tsa, the love and peace hippie goddess of youth, creativity and rebirth, and Hesinde, goddess of art, education and alchemy. Not exactly the gods you'd suspect to be worshipped alongside Dagon and Cthulhu, but that's the way DSA lizard people roll.
Image
If we just spell these deities as Zsssaah and H'Szint, the mammals will never figure out what's up.

When clerics get confronted with the similarities between their snake cult and the lizard people's snake cult, they usually rationalize it as "oh, some of our missionaries must have been here before." If they are unable to rationalize this and freak out, they end up in an insane asylum where monks and nuns of Boron administer liberal amounts of sedatives.
Why is that a problem? I'd understand if, say, a law cleric had a crisis of faith from such a revelation if the law god gave laws indicating he doesn't like lizard people or the lizard people were claiming to have been given contradictory laws from the same god. But why is it a terrible revelation that the goddess of art does not take sides in racial conflicts? (I'm assuming here the lizard people are in some sort of conflict with the PC races, you didn't bring them up before now).
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Post by Rasumichin »

There's a lot of factions that have a problem with the lizard people, largely due to humans having been the slaves that built the lizard pyramids before humanity rose up against their scaly masters and banished them to the swamps, but the main issue here is that the way humanity anthropomorphises its gods has no foundation in the setting's reality. An average human believer of the Twelve would view his gods very much in a Graeco-Roman way, where they're ultimately like very powerful human beings with human emotions and human relationships towards each other. The reality of the setting, however, is that the gods are alien, impersonal creatures whose churches have very little to do with what they're actually on about and who mostly care about harvesting faith energy from their believers to prevent that they fall from divinity and turn into demons, as DSA works under the "gods need prayer badly" idea. These facts are largely unknown among humans, but you can find out about them by doing some research and connecting the dots - and the easiest way to do that is to look at the lizardfolk pantheon, which contains several gods that have fallen and suffer from receiving too little faith energy and one or two gods who've already crossed the threshold and turned into demons.
So a Hesinde cleric would view his deity as a calm, collected professorial woman up in the sky who's using her knowledge to defend creation against the archdemons. Then he finds out that his deity is actually worshipped alongside one of the main archdemons in the lizardfolk culture, that the tenets of their faith have nothing to do with his, that lizardfolk culture is fine with sacrificing human slaves to the gods and that Hesinde obviously doesn't give a damn about any of that and still hands out divine energy to her lizardfolk clerics. Humans in the setting have a very naive, whitewashed image of what their deities actually are and if you're one of the first people in the setting to practice comparative theology, you're bound to find out that everything you believed about your faith is blatantly wrong and your life choices about joining the clergy and collecting knowledge are all based on lies.

Under Lovecraftian genre conventions, that's entirely sufficient to drive someone mad and the entire lizardfolk plot is basically Lovecraft with dinosaurs.
That doesn't mean you have to go nuts from finding this out (DSA never had sanity loss rules, so it's entirely a player choice), i also think that Lovecraftian madness isn't a particularly robust concept, but the default assumption within the genre would be that discovering the actual cosmic order reduces you to a sobbing, paranoid mess and that's how these things have been played up in fiction regarding the reptilian cults.
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Post by schpeelah »

If they know this little about the gods, and the lizardfolk religion differs this much, how could they possibly tell that it's the same goddess? Are there ways to identify which god granted a particular spell? Do lizardfolk clerics use the same holy symbols?

Similarly, how can they tell a particular god is not a demon?
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Post by Longes »

Lovecraftian madness isn't a particularly robust concept
Lovecraftian madness, as pretty much Lovecraftian Anything, is overblown far out of proportion from what the source material gave. Lovecraftian protagonists don't go mad from revelation. They go mad from seeing the alien architecture of R'Lyeh, or from seeing Cthulhu scoop and eat 1d10 sailors, or from being pursued by the mysterious assassins, or from being assaulted by black magic. But not really from the revelation that people of Insmouth are fucking the fishpeople in exchange for gold.
Last edited by Longes on Sat Nov 14, 2015 10:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Rasumichin »

Longes wrote:
Lovecraftian madness isn't a particularly robust concept
Lovecraftian madness, as pretty much Lovecraftian Anything, is overblown far out of proportion from what the source material gave. Lovecraftian protagonists don't go mad from revelation. They go mad from seeing the alien architecture of R'Lyeh, or from seeing Cthulhu scoop and eat 1d10 sailors, or from being pursuid by the mysterious assassins, or from being assaulted by black magic. But not really from the revelation that people of Insmouth are fucking the fishpeople in exchange for gold.
True, but this is specifically about the overblown kind of Lovecraft madness, not Lovecraft novel madness. I don't know how much actual source material Hadmar Wieser and the other people who wrote the mythos expies into the setting have read, but i'd say it's a given that they where much more excited about the common geek notion of "going mad from the revelation" than Lovecraft's writings themselves.
Besides that, seeing the alien architecture of R'Lyeh the brood caverns of Wajahd is something that could potentially be a thing that happens to your character in this game if MC is feeling particularly sadistic.
schpeelah wrote:If they know this little about the gods, and the lizardfolk religion differs this much, how could they possibly tell that it's the same goddess? Are there ways to identify which god granted a particular spell? Do lizardfolk clerics use the same holy symbols?

Similarly, how can they tell a particular god is not a demon?

Divine and arcane magic in DSA are entirely seperate from a fluff perspective. If somebody uses an arcane power like a demon pact, it pings as arcane magic on divination spells or liturgies. If you're good at these, you can even narrow down that it's demonic magic or even which particular demon you're dealing with.
If, on the other hand, somebody uses divine magic, it doesn't register as magic at all. There's something supernatural happening, but it's not the force that people refer to as magic.

Moreover, all forms of DSA magic (both arcane and divine) are so granular that an experienced researcher can identify them just by their effects. This isn't like Shadowrun where anybody can throw a manaball. While there's a few things that are common knowledge among all traditions, there's also highly specific stuff that only certain groups have access to.
If the lizardfolk cleric of Charybb'Yzz regularly has to submerse himself in unwater that burns everybody besides him and his followers and if he summons and comands sea serpents, it's glaringly obvious to an observer with a high rank in magical lore that the lizardfolk has made a pact with Charyptoroth, the archdemon of...uh, sea monsters and pirates, i guess. Charyptoroth used to be a normal sea goddess eons ago and now she's stuck in the chaos outside of creation and doesn't even get a coherent perversion of her former domain, but just "water, except EVIL". The archdemons are a part of the setting where this whole "let's make everything relate to the Twelfgods" shtick fails more often than not.

Anyway, you're right that the similarities between Hesinde, human snake goddess of scholarly stuff, and H'Szint, lizardfolk snake goddess of transformation, are fleeting enough that one could explain it away as a syncretism. That's where the author's desire to have Lovecraft in Aventuria strains suspension of disbelief.
But that still leaves the problem that there's a goddess that's similar in name and symbolism, although not in aspects and practices of worship, and that this goddess obviously grants divine magic-but-not-actually-magicmagic to her followers. And that they use some liturgies that the church of Hesinde uses as well, and that there's an obviously demonic clergy in the ziggurat on the other side of the road and the H'Szint clerics and the Charybb'Yzz clerics great each other and talk about the weather and exchange recipes for fried locusts on a stick and Hesinde obviously doesn't care, in spite of Charyptoroth cultists doing pirate raids from their naval bases in the Shadowlands and abducting gods-fearing people to incubate them with not-Deep Ones.
If a cleric is aware of that, which we can safely assume given that a sizeable chunk of the setting has recently been taken over by demon worshippers, it's hard to stomach that there's any kind of god that is uncaring about clerics and demonologists living next door to each other. And if said god bears a fleeting similarity to the entity you've devoted your life to, a crisis of faith is something i wouldn't want to rule out. I'd just say that outright denial should be a more common response than ending up in an asylum, because most people will look for easy ways to resolve cognitive dissonance.
Rasumichin
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Post by Rasumichin »

Part III: People and Cultures of Aventuria

These are five and a half pages about who actually lives in the setting. The description starts up North and then moves South. Nowadays, that would mean that the first thing we hear about are yetis, snow elfs and evil snow elfs like Pardona.

(NSFW because shapeshifting in DSA results in nudity)
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One of many overpowered DSA NPCs that the players can't do shit against because plot reasons. Player characters can't shapeshift into anything larger than a horse, Pardona gets to shapeshift into a frost dragon because she invented frost dragons 3000 years ago.
As this is DSA1, the glacier palaces of the snow elfs have not been written into the setting yet, so the first people we hear about are the Nivesians. They're Asian-looking nomads with red hair that DSA tried to make you give a fuck about. They became a playable character class in DSA2. Because being part of an exotic ethnicity was enough to qualify as a character type in DSA1-3. Being an exoticized stereotype never really worked out for the Nivesians because their culture has a morbid fear of death which means that they freak out as soon as they see corpses or undead and it's a kinda shitty idea to adventure as a Nivesian when all you get in exchange for your crippling fear of skulls is being good at leatherworking and kinda ok with a short bow.
The other culture described here are the Norbardians, which are based on the Roma people. Unlike WoD: Gypsies, DSA portrays its not-Gypsies as traveling merchants instead of people with a genetic predisposition for crime. Because DSA racism is usually of the "positive" variety where foreign ethnicities fulfill the stereotype of magical negros, noble savages and in this case cheerful, balalaika-playing merchants who lead a romantic life on the road. They also have weird as fuck hairdos because DSA likes to add random details to a culture to distract from the fact that they're all based on clichés of actual ethnic groups.

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Then we get a brief text about the orks. We learn that they are extremely mysoginist, xenophobic assholes which makes it ok to kill them for xp.

After that, we're off to the Thorwalians, who are basically vikings. Unlike Nivesians and Norbardians, their portrayal as heavily tattooed badass sailors/muderhobos who can drink you under the table and invented a kind of ultraviolent baseball made them an instant success with players.

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Somebody's about to get pillaged.

Thorwalians have a tendency to beat the shit out of roughly 90% of the inhabitants of Aventuria. At first, they mostly attacked slavers and whalers (because unlike actual vikings, Thorwalians don't keep slaves and don't hunt whales) but quickly expanded their shit list to lizardfolk, Horasians, Nostrians, other Thorwalians...the developers just kept adding more and more groups to their list of people to commit hate crimes against and when DSA4 rolled out, they had become incredibly disruptive assholes who'd just punch everybody at the slightest provocation because they all got the flaw of being choleric douchebags. If you picked Thorwalian as a race (the people who made DSA4 somehow thought it was a good idea to give different stats to different human ethnicities), you where forced by the rules to go berserk all the time.

After that, we get two paragraphs about wood elfs, who are described as anarchists (DSA elfs basically live in anarcho-syndicalist communes), but then are rumored to somehow have a king. We get told that some of them actually leave their homelands to go on adventures, but the reasons for that are said to be unknown. I'd have thought that this is kinda important when this box set makes them a playable character type. Even now, 30 years later, we still don't get an answer to that question. Wood elfs are the most elfy elfs of all because they give the least amount of fucks about anything outside their woods and are perfectly happy with staying at home, shapeshifting into squirrels and making fun of the clumsy humans who stumble into their territory.

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We'll never know why she leaves her native forests to become a muderhobo.

Goblins get a brief mention and are described as basically animals, which makes it ok to kill them for xp. In DSA4, goblins and orks finally get recognized as a playable species. At least as long as you're ok with being an outcast who gets killed on sight in most places - DSA doesn't give a shit about making playable species actually playable.

The next two paragraphs are about the Fountland and basically describe the Polish feudal system. Then we get a paragraph about Nostria that just tells you it's similar enough to the Middenrealm to not be described here. The problem with that (besides the grave insult to the glorious and unique culture of the mighty Nostrian empire) is that the entire page dedicated to the Middenrealm is just a description of how shitty life under feudalism is, which any modern audience would already have guessed before reading that page. At the end, we get a paragraph repeating what has been described in excruciating detail in the history chapter: that the Middenrealm is a failing state with a decadent, incompetent emperor who's about to run everything into the ground. How they became the good guys of the setting is beyond me. It clearly wasn't the original intention. Just in case you've missed how awful the Middenrealm is, we get descriptions of two regions that have split off from the realm and now fare much better. After that, we get half a page of vaguely racist text about the not-Arabians of the Khôm desert, who raid caravans and are into fat chicks.

The last half page of the chapter is about the city states of the South. That includes some pretty cool parts of the setting such as the sprawling melting pots of Fasar and Rashdul or the largely derelict city of Selem that later becomes Aventuria's Innsmouth. The problem is that we do not get to learn any more than that about them because this subchapter is mostly about the narco state of Al'Anfa.

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Supplying the entire continent with drugs is profitable enough to build your own giant raven statue for ritual suicides.

Al'Anfa is set up as another faction of bad guys because they'll invade the Caliphate of the Khôm desert early in DSA2. When that happens, you're supposed to fight against the Al'Anfanians as agents of the Middenrealm. Which makes no sense at all, because the emperor of the Middenrealm is tied to Al'Anfa by marriage and the Middenrealm has also had violent border disputes with the Caliphate for centuries, so one would assume that they'd team up with Al'Anfa to hone their alliance and finally secure their Southern border. If that wasn't nonsensical enough, the conflict gets resolved by the players watching a cut scene where a Master Penis NPC does all the work for them.

Coming up next: monsters.
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Post by Username17 »

Even by the standards of "D&D campaign worlds made by children in the 80s" (which I might possibly also be guilty of), having the Orks come from Orkland is pretty bad. Calling the coldest part "Yeti Land" isn't much better.

-Username17
Rasumichin
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Post by Rasumichin »

To add insult to injury, the biggest river in the setting is literally called The Big River. They've also got an ingame Monster Manual that's called The Monster Handbook and is written by a dwarf named Gargy, son of Gax, or an Aleister Crowley expy who goes by the name of Thomeg Atherion. I could go on with dozens of examples of bad puns, blatant plagiarism and unimaginative proper names, but most of these fortunately don't translate well to English.
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Post by Daniel »

My personal favorite name lifted from somewhere else remains the evil king Mordor.

And there is that hunchbacked longnosed dwarf that shows up in an early solo adventure lifted straight out of a 19th century German faerie tale. The rest of the adventure is something straight out of the Arabian Nights, the dwarf not so much.
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Post by Rasumichin »

They've also got a wizard named Gandolf and a pirate called Dagon who's a cultist of their Cthulhu expy. Or a guy who's a shameless plagiarism of Captain Ahab and is called Kapitän Achab.
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Post by Daniel »

Gandolf, author of Ringknowledge for beginners. :wink:
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Post by Rasumichin »

Part IV: The Creatures of Aventuria

The final part/chapter of the book describes animals, monsters and various humanoids in alphabetical order and takes up half of the booklet, giving you stats for 60 different creatures. Well, not really, because some of these like the sphinx and the elemental are openly described as plot devices that "don't need stats" because you're supposed to use them as blatant deus ex machinas, McGuffins or ways to annoy your players. Annoying your players is also suggested for some of the creatures that actually have stats, like aurochs that randomly jump out of the bushes, fuck your shit up for a combat turn or two and then disappear when they've wasted enough of your hit points to make the rest of the adventure more tedious and rage-inducing challenging. That is described as a "colourful enrichment for every forest adventure".
Another "colourful enrichment" for your game of oldschool DSA is the basilisk. Basilisks "don't need stats" because just looking at them kills you and staying close enough to them to hit them with pointy things also kills you. The only way to defeat them is a series of attribute checks to determine if you can show them their mirror image. For unexplained reasons, fighters are the only characters that are allowed to do that. If they don't die horribly, they get rewarded with an amount of xp that forever puts them a level or two ahead of everybody else (not that it matters, because DSA1 character advancement is random anyway, so your lvl 10 fighter may be worse than somebody else's lvl 5 fighter just because you suck at being lucky).
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Because there can never be enough bad puns, the herb basilicum is known as basiliskum in DSA.
If you don't want to outright TPK the group, but just annoy the fuck out of them, you can bother them with borbarad mosquitos, which suck xp instead of blood. If you hit them before they suck the xp, they poison you. Borbarad mosquitos are DSA's rust monster. After that, we get a writeup of demons, which boils down to "there's so many different ones of them that we can't tell you anything specific." They don't even bother to stat up an example. The next monster is a meat-eating plant you don't give a damn about and then we're at D like dragons, including the reliable old TPK mainstay, the giant lindworm.

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Less heads than the Dark Queen of Krynn, but at least they grow back if you chop them off.

Because giant lindworms are filed under D like dragon, they do not appear next to all the other creatures that are giant somethings, such as giant apes, giant stag beetles, giant caimans or giant amoebas. I don't know why people who don't have microscopes would call a monster giant amoeba when they can't possibly know what a normal amoeba is.

After the dragons, we get a brief description of lizardfolk, which mostly consists of describing their appearance. Beyond that, we get to know nothing about them except that they're sapient beings who even form their own adventuring parties and have their own motivations - what these motivations might be is not mentioned. Only that there's a saltwater and a freshwater variety of lizardfolk, which never gets brought up again in any of the later products. Instead, most of them just get banished to the imaginatively named Lizard Swamps.

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At least they get to keep their dinosaurs.

Unicorns also show up. Female characters can convince them to stay with the group (as long as MC feels like it) because unicorns are really into virgins. I would have thought it's kinda rude to assume that every female character in the party is a virgin, but i guess you have to put up with that if you want to have your own unicorn.
If you're not a default-virgin female, your choice of animal companions is restricted to horses and dogs in this edition. Dogs are supposed to level up like humans or elfs or dwarfs, but their advancement is capped at level 3, which will inevitably kill them if they keep adventuring with you for long enough. Not that they're likely to survive until 3rd level, as a first level dog has such crappy stats that it's likely to get killed by the next rat you run into. We get reminded several times that dogs shouldn't be played like Lassie and can only do things normal dogs can do - what that is depends entirely on mother may i, but at least that spares us the animal training rules from later editions, as these involve extended tests and that's something DSA never got right.
On page 50, we finally get to iconic DSA monsters. Namely the kraken newt, which is a weird mix of cephalopod and amphibian that Thorwalians like to cook in cream sauce, and the maraske. Which is totally unlike the tarasque, but a giant arachnid with a stinger to inject its cleptotoxin into you. Marasken eat poisonous mushrooms and get more and more venomous with age. The oldest ones have venom that does 24d6 damage, which is enough to kill anybody besides high level characters really, really dead. At least the stinger breaks off easily. Which just means that it squirts poison into your eyes and blinds you.

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Yeah, i think we'll just stick to the edible monsters.

The next monster is the maru, which is a race of crocodile men who automatically go berserk within 1d6 combat turns. Going beserk mostly means they flail around blindly and get really bad at hitting you. They're somehow still really popular as mercenaries and get hired "exclusively by villains." Probably because the good guys have too much common sense to waste money on soldiers that can't stick to any tactics for more than 12 seconds at most.

As most of the iconic DSA monsters start with M, we then get introduced to the morfu. Morfus are horse-sized, warty slugs that shoot venomous crystal shards at you, which mostly means rolling a ton of dice for 12 attacks with crappy damage rolls and then rolling more dice if they manage to penetrate your armor and poison you.

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If you're a rat catcher in Southern Aventuria, most of your job is spent scratching these from the hulls of ships.

Another gem is the entry for piranhas. These are supposed to be super dangerous because they appear in giant swarms. The number of fish is determined by rolling 1d20, though. For a group of 5 players, that means 4 piranhas per character at most, so the suggested plot twist of making a creek unpassable by letting a swarm of piranhas appear may not work out as MC planned.

After that, we get to the rats that can kill your 1st level dog, followed by various great cats. Including the sabertooth tiger. Which is cool and all, but they're the only kind of tiger that exists in the setting, so i don't quite get why they aren't just called tigers or sabertooth cats.
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They're still fucking metal, though.
Coming up next: more monsters, including vampires and werewolfs.
Last edited by Rasumichin on Sun Nov 15, 2015 8:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Longes
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Post by Longes »

The final part/chapter of the book
Wait, what? Did I miss something? Where are the classes? Are those all the playable races?
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