Revisiting an Old Tale: Advice?

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virgil
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Revisiting an Old Tale: Advice?

Post by virgil »

Say you took out student loans from a school, then paid them off. Your mother simultaneously took out loans for the same school using your identity, but used the wrong last name (correct birth date and social security number). You don't get evidence of this having happened until eight years later when you file taxes and have the entire return seized. Technically half of it is returned because you actually make no income and the only reason you filed is because your spouse filed jointly (you live in a community state). You can't get information about this loan because their proof of identification questions use invalid information (valid for the mother who performed the fraud). You have a busy life, are heavily frustrated by this turn of events, and pretend to be an ostrich for two years.

Now you are getting a phone call (they still use the wrong last name) about this, and they threaten to garnish your spouse's wages. Who do you call to get this resolved? This might be enough contact/identity to finally get information on the loan in question.
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Post by Maj »

Hells yes. Talk to the fraud division of the loan servicer.
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Post by virgil »

Guide for Assisting Identity Theft Victims wrote:Disputing a fraudulent student loan is more demanding than for other types of fraud. For example, a copy of a police report is not enough to support discharge of a loan on the basis of identity theft. Rather, clients must certify that they did not sign the promissory note or receive benefit of the loan; they might also be asked to provide a copy of a court verdict or judgment that determined they were a victim of identity theft.
Great, now we have to figure out how to get a court document.
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Post by name_here »

I feel like the fact that your legal last name isn't actually on the loan should probably give you a leg up on invalidating it.

Your bank might also give you a hand, since money that gets garnished isn't going to be in your bank account.
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Post by Kaelik »

What state do you live in/ did you go to school in?
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Post by virgil »

We live in Texas. My wife (the victim of the loan fiasco) went to school in Portland (PNCA, specifically).
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Post by Maj »

Has the loan servicer provided copies of the initial paperwork to you?
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Post by virgil »

We got off the phone with them earlier today, and they claim to be doing so right now and are putting the whole thing in dispute ("that only gives you 30 days and you are still going to owe us"). Granted, they acted kind of incredulous and condescending at the claim of fraud to go unnoticed for years. Hopefully we can use the name thing to help in spite of their snark, in paraphrase, "the loan is attached to her social security number, so the last name doesn't matter to us unless you have a court order".
Last edited by virgil on Fri Nov 06, 2015 4:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by hyzmarca »

virgil wrote:
Guide for Assisting Identity Theft Victims wrote:Disputing a fraudulent student loan is more demanding than for other types of fraud. For example, a copy of a police report is not enough to support discharge of a loan on the basis of identity theft. Rather, clients must certify that they did not sign the promissory note or receive benefit of the loan; they might also be asked to provide a copy of a court verdict or judgment that determined they were a victim of identity theft.
Great, now we have to figure out how to get a court document.

The first step, I suspect, would be to put your mother-in-law in prison.

But really, get a lawyer.
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Post by RobbyPants »

How do you know your mother-in-law did this? Did she admit to it?
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Post by virgil »

RobbyPants wrote:How do you know your mother-in-law did this? Did she admit to it?
It's not a certainty, but a strong likelihood. The mother-in-law has a history of attempting this. She had attempted to buy a car in my wife's name, which she managed to stop when she got a collection call and showed up to show that she was, in actual fact, an emancipated 14 year old girl (rather than a fat Indian in her 30s). She had actually attempted to do the loan thing previously, but the initial process for that attempt was noticed/thwarted by a nearby loan officer who had just finished working with my wife for her actual loan half an hour previously.
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Post by name_here »

Did those previous incidents result in any paperwork? If you can get ahold of some evidence that it's happened before, that might help this time.
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Post by Kaelik »

Oh I see, I was thinking that the mother in law was someone she cared about. If you are willing to deal with this, you should definitely start by reporting the crime to the police, and they will do nothing about it, but the loan companies will start to maybe believe you are serious.

But yes, if the last name is wrong (and wasn't ever her legal last name, or wasn't her name at the time she went to college) then that is the best direction to address it from. Make it abundantly clear to the loaning company that you will never pay one cent, and that you've already reported her estranged mother who she emancipated herself from to the authorities, and they will start to come to terms with the fact that you aren't trying to trick them.

Also, was it the same loan servicer that did the loans she already paid back?
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Post by virgil »

Silly Kaelik, thinking we have have a shred of sympathy for family :P She had been seized from her mother by protective services back when she was maybe 4 for reckless abandonment and given custody to the biological father. Technically she emancipated herself from her father, and as far as we can tell, the mother assumed she took her father's last name after that (hence the name discrepancies).

I guess we report to the local police? I'll try to have the missus get any records she can from the college that they know of (they only know of the one loan she got and paid off). I'm having her fill out this Identity Theft Victim's Complaint & Affidavit form I got ahold of, then get notarized/copied to throw at whomever we need to; though fully filling it out will take a bit for the disputed loan paperwork to get here. We only recently got any of the credit report agencies to believe my wife was who she said she was, and they're sending the reports to us now.

According to the collector, her legit and paid back loan (with her actual legal name and a co-signor) and this disputed loan were both made with the same company. We're supposedly getting a copy of the promissory note along with the other paperwork.

I'm personally worried about the loan collection company's powers in this situation. As far as I can tell, me saying we won't pay a cent doesn't truly matter to them because they can start garnishing 15% of my paycheck without even looking at a court because it's a student loan and we're in a community property state.
Last edited by virgil on Fri Nov 06, 2015 4:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Kaelik »

Oh they can definitely do all kinds of fucked up things, but if you make abundantly clear that she didn't take out the loan, knew nothing about the loan, her mother has been reported to the police, and you are absolutely never going to pay them a cent, because you will hire a lawyer if necessary, then you can tell them to fuck off.

You should also look into how long ago the loan was taken out, and how long payments have been due but not been made, because there is a statute of limitations, and if your mother never paid back any, and the loan wasn't it deferment of forbearance, they may be unable to enforce the loan at all, or very nearly at that point. Which is all the more reason to make clear that you will fight it tooth and nail, and they will never get any money because you will win.

Convincingly sounding like someone who is willing to cut off your nose to spite your face, whether true or not, can be the most effective deterrent, and in this case, it should be believable, because legal fees are going to cost you very little in the short term and nothing in the long term if they fight you on this.
Last edited by Kaelik on Fri Nov 06, 2015 4:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by virgil »

Kaelik wrote:You should also look into how long ago the loan was taken out, and how long payments have been due but not been made, because there is a statute of limitations, and if your mother never paid back any, and the loan wasn't it deferment of forbearance, they may be unable to enforce the loan at all, or very nearly at that point. Which is all the more reason to make clear that you will fight it tooth and nail, and they will never get any money because you will win.
Loan was taken out in 2006 (when she entered college), entered automatic deferment/forbearance after my wife graduated with her master's in '08, and then went directly to "hasn't seen a dime" in '09 and floated there since.

They've already taken my entire tax return twice now, though I managed to recover half of it each time by filing injured spouse report, which was still financially better than filing separately. Unless filing separately can protect my paycheck at this point? We weren't able to get info on the loan because the CRAs didn't believe my wife was her until the last month or two, and we honestly had been ostriches over this. Now we got this loan agency, so we can get some actual info.
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Post by Kaelik »

virgil wrote:They've already taken my entire tax return twice now, though I managed to recover half of it each time by filing injured spouse report, which was still financially better than filing separately. Unless filing separately can protect my paycheck at this point? We weren't able to get info on the loan because the CRAs didn't believe my wife was her until the last month or two, and we honestly had been ostriches over this. Now we got this loan agency, so we can get some actual info.
The fact that they successfully took tax returns in the past might get them around the statute of limitations, it might not. In either case if the loans were taken before 2010 they might not be technically private, so if they are government guaranteed then no statute of limitations exists.

So I would say probably just focus on the fraud angle, but if having a no nonsense conversation about how you are definitely not going to let them take your money over loans that weren't to you (or your wife) doesn't solve the problem, you probably will need a lawyer.
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Post by JonSetanta »

virgil wrote:We live in Texas. My wife (the victim of the loan fiasco) went to school in Portland (PNCA, specifically).
Not shot by local law enforcement yet for loan evasion?
I don't know how things go in Texas but it's a fairly gun-heavy state.

Then again I'm in Baltimore right now so who am I to say.
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Post by virgil »

Does anybody have any advice on how to find a lawyer, which I assume is the proper person to talk to get help us get a judgement for false certification on this whole identity theft? My Google-fu is proving to be super weak.
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Post by Josh_Kablack »

Dunno about Texas, but here in southwest PA, searching "Allegheny County Bar Association" brings up links to online lawyer search and referral services. Try that with your county subbed in.
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Post by virgil »

Have given verbal and written requests for validation of the debt, or really, any information at all. They have not provided such, promising it's totally in the mail.

Have been attempting to get in touch with one lawyer, but are getting brushed off. We've been told that proving the loan was done fraudulently will be difficult because the loan was taken out at the same bank, for the same college, at about the same time. We know the loan is fraudulent because it's under the wrong name and the real loan went directly to the school, who verified that one to be completely paid off.

Out of curiosity, if we somehow manage to actually get a court order saying the student loan is identity theft, will the money taken from the tax offset (about $3k by this point) be recoverable?
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Post by Eikre »

You should understand, people can and do use inconsistent aliases on their official paperwork, and such practice is legitimate by common law. A person is absolutely attributable with their patrilineal surname, and its use on the original loan paperwork is far less 'incorrect' than you might think. It's fine circumstantial evidence for your suspicion of her mother, but it's really not a self-sufficient point in your defense.
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Post by virgil »

The name is only of note for who to suspect. The main argument is that she didn't take the loan in question and paid off the loan she actually took over four years ago.
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