Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2015 3:19 am
This War of Mine pretty much follow suit: Realism, Grimdark, and just like other survival games but instead of getting around monsters it is other people.
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Since I just finished going over how all the games you listed have flavor that amounts to "REALISM" "GRIMDARK" or both, and that plenty of other games have those same flavors and do them just as well, no, it still makes no sense at all. You are still obviously completely wrong.silva wrote:Thanks for the description, Longes.
You know what ? Blade, Prak and Judging Eagle are right. I was thinking the issue again and came to the conclusion that what distinguishes Eastern European games is not their prowess in "flexing the media boundaries" (while Stalker does this, its more of an exception than the norm) but in the way it deals with themes and flavour.
Does it make more sense ?
Sorry, Kaelik, I was a bit vague in my attempt at metaphor. I was merely trying to say that there is always a hipster impulse to trash whatever the dominant/mainstream culture is, while promoting foreign, "exotic" alternatives like they can do no wrong.Kaelik wrote: The example games feature zero samurai and a non zero number of english knights. So I'm not sure that applies.
Well actually, the Witcher is an English badass who was given a polish name by a plagarist, and is sold as polish for that reason. But sure, I agree with the general principle.Stinktopus wrote:Sorry, Kaelik, I was a bit vague in my attempt at metaphor. I was merely trying to say that there is always a hipster impulse to trash whatever the dominant/mainstream culture is, while promoting foreign, "exotic" alternatives like they can do no wrong.Kaelik wrote: The example games feature zero samurai and a non zero number of english knights. So I'm not sure that applies.
If The Witcher were made by Activision, silva would be calling it a bland, generic fantasy interspersed with blatant sexploitation. But, The Witcher is about a Polish badass and Polish tits, and apparently Poland is exotic now.
Huh.. if you read my previous posts, you will see I didnt even considered The Witcher series as I think its too on the mainstream side.Stinktopus wrote:If The Witcher were made by Activision, silva would be calling it a bland, generic fantasy interspersed with blatant sexploitation. But, The Witcher is about a Polish badass and Polish tits, and apparently Poland is exotic now.
Geralt is not remotely a Polish name, and the books are popular in part for being based on distinctly Slavic folklore and culture.Kaelik wrote:
Well actually, the Witcher is an English badass who was given a polish name by a plagarist, and is sold as polish for that reason. But sure, I agree with the general principle.
I don't care if his name is polish or not. The point is that the witcher series was written by a plagiarist who stole an english character and then wrote fan-fic about him, and sold it as original work. So when someone says that Geralt is a polish badass, they are just wrong, since he is in fact an english character.schpeelah wrote:Geralt is not remotely a Polish name, and the books are popular in part for being based on distinctly Slavic folklore and culture.
Huh? What?Well actually, the Witcher is an English badass who was given a polish name by a plagarist
Kaelik, are you high? Is any game with post-apocalyptic aesthetics "just Fallout" for you? This is like arguing that Batman is just Superman, but without powers, and grimdark instead of campy.Stalker is just Fallout, but localized, and grimdark instead of campy. Those are obviously changes, but if you are committed to praising Stalker's theme as opposed to its gameplay, you basically have to say it is because the grimdark realism of the localized post apocalypse is more thematic than campy 50s tunes and racism themes of fallout.
Do you even know what theme is? I ask because the answer is obviously no.silva wrote:Yeah, the "Stalker is just Fallout!" argument just proves Kaelik never played neither game. One is your trad RPG formula with NPCs that are little more than wiki-posts disguised as people who only come into existence when the player gets within 100 yards of them, and the other is an ambitious formula of emergent open-world shooter sim with survival elements and NPCs that have actual needs and wants and explore the world as independent entities.
Fallout has all the same "War is Hell" and "The real enemy is Man's inhumanity to Man" themes wrapped in a campy exterior. Stalker has the same "You are a rough and tumble survivor who can choose to fuck the world or save it, and you being an everyman who saves the world is the point" as Fallout, but dressed in Gritty Realism.silva wrote:If by sharing the tag "post-apocalyptic", you think both games deal with the same themes and issues, I disagree. Fallout is your typical american world-saving "chosen one" heroism. Stalker has no such thing as heroism, nor world-saving.
I still fail to see how Stalker is anything like Fallout. In Fallout the world has gone to shit after nuclear apocalypse and you, as a citizen of the underground Vault, must brave the desert filled with Mad Max raiders and mutated wildlife to find the water chip/stop mutant invasion. In Stalker a part of Ukraine has gone to shit after nuclear power plant blew up and you, as an amnesiac treasure hunter, must brave the wastelands of Ukraine filled with bandits and mutated wildlife to find loot to sell to the normal people and get to the center of the Zone where the biggest loot stash allegedly is. I'd imagine that the very fact that there was no nuclear apocalypse would make Stalker thematically different from Fallout.Kaelik wrote:Do you even know what theme is? I ask because the answer is obviously no.silva wrote:Yeah, the "Stalker is just Fallout!" argument just proves Kaelik never played neither game. One is your trad RPG formula with NPCs that are little more than wiki-posts disguised as people who only come into existence when the player gets within 100 yards of them, and the other is an ambitious formula of emergent open-world shooter sim with survival elements and NPCs that have actual needs and wants and explore the world as independent entities.
So you mean that both people are scavengers in a post nuclear event who are pursuing a personal goal, and incidentally end up saving everyone by their actions. And both of them have to contend with both the mutated wild, but also the evil men who are the true enemy in a place made terrible by the horrible actions of man?Longes wrote:I still fail to see how Stalker is anything like Fallout. In Fallout the world has gone to shit after nuclear apocalypse and you, as a citizen of the underground Vault, must brave the desert filled with Mad Max raiders and mutated wildlife to find the water chip/stop mutant invasion. In Stalker a part of Ukraine has gone to shit after nuclear power plant blew up and you, as an amnesiac treasure hunter, must brave the wastelands of Ukraine filled with bandits and mutated wildlife to find loot to sell to the normal people and get to the center of the Zone where the biggest loot stash allegedly is. I'd imagine that the very fact that there was no nuclear apocalypse would make Stalker thematically different from Fallout.
1. What is this "saving the world" you are talking about? In Stalker the world is not in danger at any point, and the game ends with you either joining the scientist hivemind that is trying to bring world peace, or killing them all and possibly removing the Zone (which is not threatening the world and is just sitting there).Kaelik wrote:So you mean that both people are scavengers in a post nuclear event who are pursuing a personal goal, and incidentally end up saving everyone by their actions. And both of them have to contend with both the mutated wild, but also the evil men who are the true enemy in a place made terrible by the horrible actions of man?Longes wrote:I still fail to see how Stalker is anything like Fallout. In Fallout the world has gone to shit after nuclear apocalypse and you, as a citizen of the underground Vault, must brave the desert filled with Mad Max raiders and mutated wildlife to find the water chip/stop mutant invasion. In Stalker a part of Ukraine has gone to shit after nuclear power plant blew up and you, as an amnesiac treasure hunter, must brave the wastelands of Ukraine filled with bandits and mutated wildlife to find loot to sell to the normal people and get to the center of the Zone where the biggest loot stash allegedly is. I'd imagine that the very fact that there was no nuclear apocalypse would make Stalker thematically different from Fallout.
You are right, they have totally different themes because in one of them there wasn't a global apocalypse. Because everyone knows you can't have the same themes in different (or in fact, nearly the same) settings.
Nope. One is trying to save his people (Fallout), the other is in it just for the money (Stalker).Kaelik wrote:So you mean that both people are scavengers
Nope. Stalker's Zone has nothing to do with nuclear whatsoever.in a post nuclear event
Nope. Stalker protagonist dont save anyone by his actions. The Zone continue to exist (and to grow) after his deeds, whatever ending you achieve.and incidentally end up saving everyone by their actions
When did I ever say, "save the world" You don't save the world in fallout either. You save a localized group of people in the area you adventure in. Which is the same in both games.Longes wrote:1. What is this "saving the world" you are talking about? In Stalker the world is not in danger at any point, and the game ends with you either joining the scientist hivemind that is trying to bring world peace, or killing them all and possibly removing the Zone (which is not threatening the world and is just sitting there).
That's rich coming from someone who confuses AI programming with theme.silva wrote:Kaelik is confusing theme for genre. Sometimes genre tags indeed indicate commonly shared themes and issues, but other times don't.
Learn what the word scavenger means.silva wrote:Nope. One is trying to save his people (Fallout), the other is in it just for the money (Stalker).Kaelik wrote:So you mean that both people are scavengers
"In keeping with the post-nuclear decay within The Zone, extreme radiation has caused mutations among animals and plants in the area."silva wrote:Nope. Stalker's Zone has nothing to do with nuclear whatsoever.in a post nuclear event
"Afterwards, Strelok is shown standing in a grassy field, watching the sky as the clouds break and the sun comes out. The Zone is apparently gone."silva wrote:Nope. Stalker protagonist dont save anyone by his actions. The Zone continue to exist (and to grow) after his deeds, whatever ending you achieve.and incidentally end up saving everyone by their actions
Apparently I'm not the one that needs to read the wikipedia article.silva wrote:Really, pal. Your ignorance about Stalker is showing. At least read the wikipedia article. You should feel less embarassed.
How about you answer my question. Is the color of Spain the same as the upwards trajectory of the square root of Pineapple?silva wrote:Also, answer my previous question: do you think Mad Max and Tarkovsky Stalker deal with the same themes ?
Hehe. Sorry to disappoint you bro.angelfromanotherpin wrote:Did... did people forget that silva is a liar and a troll, and no matter how many argument points you score against him, you already lost as soon as you took his bear-bait?
Well, you said "save everyone". You don't 'save' anyone in Stalker. Stalkers are willingly in the Zone. They are earning money there. It's a business.Kaelik wrote:When did I ever say, "save the world" You don't save the world in fallout either. You save a localized group of people in the area you adventure in. Which is the same in both games.Longes wrote:1. What is this "saving the world" you are talking about? In Stalker the world is not in danger at any point, and the game ends with you either joining the scientist hivemind that is trying to bring world peace, or killing them all and possibly removing the Zone (which is not threatening the world and is just sitting there).