The Gaming Den Forum Index The Gaming Den
Welcome to the Gaming Den.
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Google
 Search WWW   Search tgdmb.com 
So... Star Wars [Spoilers]
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Gaming Den Forum Index -> MPSIMS
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
FrankTrollman
Serious Badass


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 27159

PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2015 9:08 am    Post subject: So... Star Wars [Spoilers] Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

No, I don't intend to give away any particular spoilers in this post, but I figure that it's virtually impossible that spoilers won't happen in this thread, so I labeled the thread [Spoilers] just in case.

Star Wars Episode VII is scientifically designed and mathematically calibrated to not disappoint the fans like those fucking prequels. Every part of it, and I do mean every little bit of dialog or piece of background scenery, has been carefully focus grouped to properly callback to the good Star Wars movies and reject the bad Star Wars movies. All the action scenes are properly and precisely placed so that the movie maintains tempo and doesn't get bogged down in shitty "I hate sand" lulls.

There is something clinical, even boring, about the way the dialog, the action, the everything is put together. When a character calls time to declare very specifically that we are using the Force as described by Yoda in Empire Strikes Back and not those fucking midichlorians from the prequels, it's almost enough to provoke eye rolling. I mean, yes that's the correct answer, and yes that's the answer fans have been waiting for for more than a decade. In more excited fan-crowds that was probably an applause line. But that's all it is. There isn't really any reason for the dialog to be where it is, it's just a point in the movie where there was room to put in the appropriate fan affirmation.

The action is beautifully choreographed, but I was not really on my seat for any of it. I pretty much knew what was going to happen the entire time. Every part of the movie, from the dialog to the characters to the pacing itself is made out of callbacks to the original trilogy. Even the "twists" are careful to be exact mirror images of first trilogy events and are in that manner completely unsurprising. I'm not sure it's even possible to spoil this movie for people who have already seen New Hope, Empire, and Return of the Jedi.

Without getting into any of the things that happen later in the movie, I'm just going to harp on a bit from the opening story crawl. Why the fuckity fuck are the good guys called "The Resistance?" They work for the Republic. Explicitly. That is not a name that people who work for the legitimate authority have. You're only the resistance if you aren't in possession of the capital. You can be the resistance if you're the rightful government if and only if some assholes have conquered you and your government is in exile.

-Frank
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
PhoneLobster
King


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 6199

PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2015 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

It would have been nice if it were more like a kinda Mad Max: Fury Road only for Star Wars, you know, a just plain massively awesome movie seemingly out of nowhere with pretty close to no shortcomings. But Disney knew that something of that quality was at best a gamble if not impossible for them to produce at all.

But a very careful, excessively fan service heavy thoroughly original trilogy based run of the mill action movie with some expensive special effects sequences? That they knew they had a reliable shot at making. And it is something that is good enough to revive the franchise.

And not just something that can revive the franchise with new and casual fan interest. They want the sorta crazy star wars fan boy following that star wars used to have. They want that core of fanatics promoting their movies and buying their merchandise. They want those guys to get out there on the internet reminding us of god damn star wars twenty four seven until the next movie comes out.

And what we have, even in it's shortcomings, is exactly what THAT audience wanted.

Still, for me, it was OK. On par with say, the marvel movies. Good enough to go back and see the rest of.

There was oh, pretty much one spoiler thing I'm... uncertain about...
Click here to see the hidden message (It might contain spoilers)

_________________
Phonelobster's Self Proclaimed Greatest Hits Collection : (no really, they are awesome)
Click here to see the hidden message (It might contain spoilers)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mechalich
Knight-Baron


Joined: 04 Nov 2015
Posts: 661

PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2015 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

PhoneLobster wrote:
They want the sorta crazy star wars fan boy following that star wars used to have. They want that core of fanatics promoting their movies and buying their merchandise. They want those guys to get out there on the internet reminding us of god damn star wars twenty four seven until the next movie comes out.


The only time Star Wars didn't have a crazy fanboy following was in the period from about mid 2014 to mid 2015 - between Disney's announcement destroying the EU and the trailer for Force Awakens dropping. And destroying the EU permanently destroyed Disney's hopes with many of the former rabid fanboys (speaking as one here, one who won't be seeing this movie in theaters).

This movie is totally about maximum nostalgia-based mass appeal - a huge call-out to casual older fans with fond memories, their impressionable kids, people with a long-simmering moderate interest in the franchise, and the weird subset of OT movie only pursuits. It's the exact same formula Abrams used for Trek, so it's not like it wasn't seen coming.

Which isn't to say it won't work or was the wrong decision economically - I'm bitter but not blind to the realities of modern franchise development - but it does seem weird to consider these 'new' films, when by all accounts its way closer to an OT reboot in spirit.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
PhoneLobster
King


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 6199

PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2015 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

They aren't aiming at the deluded subset of fanatics that kept the faith post shitty prequels.

They are aiming at the fanatics that abandoned the faith in dejection because of the shitty prequels.

If the only thing that alienated you was the ejection of the EU then you aren't the loser they want promoting their film. You are the tiniest of sub minorities of a minority of a minority.
_________________
Phonelobster's Self Proclaimed Greatest Hits Collection : (no really, they are awesome)
Click here to see the hidden message (It might contain spoilers)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kaelik
ArchDemon of Rage


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 12087

PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2015 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

PhoneLobster wrote:
They aren't aiming at the deluded subset of fanatics that kept the faith post shitty prequels.


Uhh... If someone was a fan of the X-Wing series, why would they have suddenly abandoned the concept of reading Legacy of the Force because of the prequels sucking?

Like, I know you were never a fan, but pretty much by definition the fans to look for are the ones paying money, which for Star Wars means that in 1998-1999 they were reading I, Jedi, and X-Wing: Isard's Revenge. From 1999-2005, while they were hoping the next movie wouldn't suck, they were reading just... so many Yuhzan Vong books, and then in 2006 after it was confirmed all three of the prequels sucked dickface, they started Legacy of the Force.

Now you could say all kinds of things about the quality of those respective series, but saying "People who enjoyed X-Wing and New Jedi Order should have abandoned the Franchise because some movies set 60 years in the past sucked" is just weird.

And saying that Disney should alienate those people because they have terrible taste because they liked Star Wars after the prequels came out is double weird.

The reason they should alienate those people is because the books series would make terrible movies, so a cannon reset was necessary for commercial viability, not because they liked books set 60 years after the prequels and that proves that they have bad taste because the prequels sucked.

Let's remember, they threw out all the cannon since 1983 except the shitty prequels. They kept that. Keeping the prequels as cannon but throwing out everything else is not the action of someone trying to punish people who liked the prequels.
_________________
"DSMatticus" wrote:
Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?
That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
Click here to see the hidden message (It might contain spoilers)


Last edited by Kaelik on Sun Dec 20, 2015 2:03 pm; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
OgreBattle
King


Joined: 03 Sep 2011
Posts: 5099

PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2015 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

"Hey those guys from the Raid are awesome at action scenes, lets hire them and have them do nothing"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Blicero
Duke


Joined: 07 May 2009
Posts: 1013

PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2015 5:20 pm    Post subject: Re: So... Star Wars [Spoilers] Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

FrankTrollman wrote:

Without getting into any of the things that happen later in the movie, I'm just going to harp on a bit from the opening story crawl. Why the fuckity fuck are the good guys called "The Resistance?" They work for the Republic. Explicitly. That is not a name that people who work for the legitimate authority have. You're only the resistance if you aren't in possession of the capital. You can be the resistance if you're the rightful government if and only if some assholes have conquered you and your government is in exile.


http://www.bleedingcool.com/2015/12/18/here-is-whats-going-on-with-the-first-order-the-new-republic-and-the-resistance-in-star-wars-the-force-awakens/

Apparently "The Resistance" is not officially supported by the Republic; they were formed specifically to fight "The First Order". Not that you get any of what is in this link from the movie itself.

Sidenote: According to the above link, the rise of the not-Empire and formation of the not-Rebels have been a relatively recent phenomenon. I did not get that at all from the movie itself and watched the entire thing under the assumption that both sides had been at war for thirty years.

It's difficult to think back to a time before I had seen New Hope, but I am wondering if the political situation in that one (minus the added detail of V and VI) was as ambiguous as the one in VII.
_________________
Out beyond the hull, mucoid strings of non-baryonic matter streamed past like Christ's blood in the firmament.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Josh_Kablack
Prince


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 4984
Location: Online. duh

PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2015 6:42 pm    Post subject: Re: So... Star Wars [Spoilers] Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

FrankTrollman wrote:
Why the fuckity fuck are the good guys called "The Resistance?"
-Frank


Because it's phonetically very very close to "The REbel alliANCE."
_________________
Johnson - Hanks 2020
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
PhoneLobster
King


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 6199

PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2015 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Kaelik wrote:
And saying that Disney should alienate those people because they have terrible taste because they liked Star Wars after the prequels came out is double weird.

I'm not saying they should. I'm saying they ARE.

I assume they have numbers to back that up that decision. And I do not think it is a big assumption to consider that there is a much bigger block of star wars fans disillusioned by the prequels than by the EU reset. After all, Disney certainly seems to think so.
_________________
Phonelobster's Self Proclaimed Greatest Hits Collection : (no really, they are awesome)
Click here to see the hidden message (It might contain spoilers)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kaelik
ArchDemon of Rage


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 12087

PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2015 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

PhoneLobster wrote:
Kaelik wrote:
And saying that Disney should alienate those people because they have terrible taste because they liked Star Wars after the prequels came out is double weird.

I'm not saying they should. I'm saying they ARE.

I assume they have numbers to back that up that decision. And I do not think it is a big assumption to consider that there is a much bigger block of star wars fans disillusioned by the prequels than by the EU reset. After all, Disney certainly seems to think so.


Nevermind the way you phrased it as "kept the faith after the shitty prequels" caused me to see a because that wasn't there.
_________________
"DSMatticus" wrote:
Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?
That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
Click here to see the hidden message (It might contain spoilers)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
MGuy
Prince


Joined: 21 Jul 2009
Posts: 3447
Location: Indiana

PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2015 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Overall I liked the movie. Even though there are a number of questionable (and uber convenient) bits here and there for the most part I have no major complaints. Right after I saw the movie I was relieved that it wasn't terrible but as I thought about it one thing came to mind.

Click here to see the hidden message (It might contain spoilers)
As for EU/Legends I don't care. I have hardly ever cared about the EU outside of thinking that 'some' of the stories were neat while others were not. Disney wanting to wipe the slate clean is not only understandable but I don't see how they could begin to go in their own direction if they didn't. I feel like it was important for Abrams to re-establish the brand in this movie and so that's what he went for. I think it turned out well. Even ignoring the fact that he didn't have to do 'much' to be better than the prequels I think he made the right moves with this movie and I can only hope he continues to do so.
_________________
The first rule of Fatclub. Don't Talk about Fatclub..
I've always thought it best to never hit a lady, but be sure to beat a bitch. -TOZ
MGuy wrote:
Finally a thread about fighters!


Last edited by MGuy on Sun Dec 20, 2015 9:32 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Yahoo Messenger
JesterZero
Journeyman


Joined: 29 Oct 2008
Posts: 109
Location: San Diego

PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 12:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

As previously mentioned:
  • The movie wants very badly to be a ceaseless homage to the original trilogy, to the point where it actually feels that it's own narrative is clearly getting the short shrift. Maybe Disney just isn't worried running out of movies, but I've seen 40-minute TV pilots that introduced more characters, and characterized them more fully. But there simply isn't time for that in a movie with this many winks and nods to the original trilogy.
  • The relationship between the Republic / Resistance / First Order is fairly opaque. Trying to connect the dots to the Rebellion / Empire only makes it worse. Clearly some exposition was either overlooked or (more likely) wound up on the floor of the editing room.

Additionally:
  • The movie clocks in, I believe, at 2 hours and 4 minutes. It would have benefited enormously from adding an additional 10 minutes of run time that shoehorned in some exposition (see above), and an additional 5 minutes that just gave relief from the unrelenting, frenetic pacing of the movie. I mean, you have gorgeous visuals and John Williams writing your score. Let John and your set manager earn their paycheck for crying out loud. I don't want to come off like an old-man-film-snob here, but the editing / pacing was so incredibly rushed that it beggars belief.

It's absolutely a fun movie; it's not a great movie. It's also not a great Star Wars movie.


Last edited by JesterZero on Mon Dec 21, 2015 12:06 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mechalich
Knight-Baron


Joined: 04 Nov 2015
Posts: 661

PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

MGuy wrote:
Disney wanting to wipe the slate clean is not only understandable but I don't see how they could begin to go in their own direction if they didn't.


The really annoying part is not that they wiped the slate clean post-RotJ, but that they wiped the slate clean pre-RotJ as well.

It was really annoying to wake up in mid-2014 to discover that the thousands of hours I'd sunk in Star Wars: The Old Republic now belonged to a game effectively missing the part before the colon. 3,500 years of time wasn't enough buffer?

PhoneLobster wrote:
I assume they have numbers to back that up that decision. And I do not think it is a big assumption to consider that there is a much bigger block of star wars fans disillusioned by the prequels than by the EU reset. After all, Disney certainly seems to think so.


Nah, Disney simply thinks that the long-term monetary prospects of a durable movie franchise in the Marvel style and the attendant toys are worth more than anything related to the books/comics/video games.

Toys are actually the biggest money-making part of the franchise, with movies second, and everything else a distant third (books are actually the least valuable component, so allowing them to drive the plotline for years was a tail-wags-dog exercise). Disney is making a bet on mass-market fans versus hardcore fans. Over the long term, if they can string together 6-10 movies that each pull in a billion dollars, they're probably right. The biggest risk is that movies in general recede as a medium, or that blockbuster fatigue sets in - to which Disney is particularly vulnerable because they own both Marvel and Star Wars and are now effectively their own biggest competitor.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
MGuy
Prince


Joined: 21 Jul 2009
Posts: 3447
Location: Indiana

PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 1:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

JesterZero wrote:

Additionally:
  • The movie clocks in, I believe, at 2 hours and 4 minutes. It would have benefited enormously from adding an additional 10 minutes of run time that shoehorned in some exposition (see above), and an additional 5 minutes that just gave relief from the unrelenting, frenetic pacing of the movie. I mean, you have gorgeous visuals and John Williams writing your score. Let John and your set manager earn their paycheck for crying out loud. I don't want to come off like an old-man-film-snob here, but the editing / pacing was so incredibly rushed that it beggars belief.

It's absolutely a fun movie; it's not a great movie. It's also not a great Star Wars movie.
Honestly I don't know why they just didn't make it longer to get all of that in. A good run through of what the major issues are as far as the major factions running around in the galaxy would've been an excellent use of time. They could've actually cut out at least part of the scene where they go from a bigger ship to exclusively using the smaller ship to do just that. I would've cared about learning what the relationship actually is to the main factions rather than hearing some throwaway names for crime factions.
_________________
The first rule of Fatclub. Don't Talk about Fatclub..
I've always thought it best to never hit a lady, but be sure to beat a bitch. -TOZ
MGuy wrote:
Finally a thread about fighters!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Yahoo Messenger
PhoneLobster
King


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 6199

PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 1:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Why didn't they actually explain the politics and factions? Why didn't they use that to slow the "frantic" pacing?

I'll tell you why. Because mission number one up front and center was "do not be the prequels".

Now we can have an argument that some slowing of the pace might have been nice (or not), we can have an argument that the politics and factions could be explained in a good and entertaining way (or at least in a less wildly nonsense and boring way than the prequels).

But the argument doesn't matter because ANY time spent digressing from the action to talk about Imperial/Republic politics would have been immediately identified and condemned as the sort of bullshit that bogged down and fatally (well, additionally fatally, it's not like it was the only problem) slowed the pacing of the prequels.

So instead they went with the original trilogy attitude towards politics and factions.

The fact is the originals didn't really spend any particular time properly defining the Empire and the Rebel Alliance, didn't really properly frame the sides as good or bad or shades of grey, and even less time telling us WTF being a space princess was supposed to even MEAN.

And in the observation of Disney/whoever took charge of this mess trying (and failing) to explain the crazy space fantasy politics was an unpopular failure associated with the prequels and just not bothering to do so was a success associated with the originals. Considering everything else in the movie are you surprised which side of that choice they fell on? Because I'm not.

In other news, wondering what JJ "that guy, really?' Abrams will do with the next movie... I'm not certain but I'm pretty sure I saw Movie Bob going on about how Abrams was only contracted for the first movie and some "better" guy is in charge for the second one.
_________________
Phonelobster's Self Proclaimed Greatest Hits Collection : (no really, they are awesome)
Click here to see the hidden message (It might contain spoilers)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
maglag
Duke


Joined: 02 Apr 2015
Posts: 1115

PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 3:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

PhoneLobster wrote:

The fact is the originals didn't really spend any particular time properly defining the Empire and the Rebel Alliance, didn't really properly frame the sides as good or bad or shades of grey,

Oh, but they did frame the sides as good and bad:

"This is the Empire. They blow up planets whose governments oppose them, plus the empire kill their own officers on the spot if they're deemed to have failed their duties, and also have torture bots. THE EMPIRE IS EVIL!"

"Those are the rebels. They want to stop the empire. They don't blow up planets neither kill their own subordinates on whims, thus THE REBELS ARE THE GOOD GUYS!"

Simple. Effective.

PhoneLobster wrote:

and even less time telling us WTF being a space princess was supposed to even MEAN.


Hmm, what's there to tell? In the grimbrightness of the future, there's still royalty, like there's been among humanity ever since some humie decided that he was superior and thus you shoud obey him and his descendants. The princess is daughter of some king/queen somewhere and just happens to work as a diplomat.

At least before the clusterfuck retcon of "elected princess" in the prequels.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mechalich
Knight-Baron


Joined: 04 Nov 2015
Posts: 661

PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 4:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Significantly A New Hope has - in addition to a number of key scenes of puppy-kicking by the Imperials - several expository moments regarding the politics. There's the one where an officer questions Vader about the implications of holding Leia, there's several exchanges between Leia and Vader or Tarkin, and most importantly there's the Death Star conference scene, where the major figures explain exactly what the key Imperial plan is and what the implications are - Tarkin pretty flat out says 'f--- democracy! we have a planet-destroying superweapon and we're going to rule by fear.'

Also Lucas smartly chose to have the Imperials be dressed, talk, and utilize body language and terminology in such a way that the 'Nazis in Space!' analog could only have been more obvious if they'd been carrying signs.

The OT has the advantage that the Rebellion is not a government, it is a rebel movement defined purely out of opposition to the Empire. It didn't need to explain what it was beyond that.

And if this was a pure reboot or an original property The Force Awakens could do all the same things the OT did, but this is supposed to be the sequel and it has to be the same but different at the same time, because minds naturally raise all sorts of comparative questions that you simply don't have to deal with otherwise. This is a problem inherent in sequels and prequels. It sounds like the solution utilized by Abrams and co. was to simply ignore it and have more flashy lightsaber fights, which is probably the right answer. Since this is now a comic book style alternate universe bearing franchise like all the others, the big thing to work with is lightsabers.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
PhoneLobster
King


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 6199

PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 4:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

maglag wrote:
Simple. Effective.

... and flawed, clumsy, lazy and brief. And most of all not really the sort of thing people are calling for when they basically saying "woah woah, the movie should grind to a halt and damn well explain things to me until this shit makes actual sense".

But the factions and their actions in the new movie don't make much sense, much as the factions and their actions in the originals (and the prequels) didn't really make much sense. The originals just sorta ignored it. The prequels spent hours prattling on about trade embargoes and senate manipulation and bullshit that in the end still didn't make sense but were also giant boring wastes of screen time that only made the not making sense situation worse.

Click here to see the hidden message (It might contain spoilers)

_________________
Phonelobster's Self Proclaimed Greatest Hits Collection : (no really, they are awesome)
Click here to see the hidden message (It might contain spoilers)


Last edited by PhoneLobster on Mon Dec 21, 2015 4:32 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Emerald
Knight


Joined: 26 Jul 2009
Posts: 346

PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 6:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

On the subject of factions, of the many many issues I had with the movie the thing that pisses me off the most is that they made a big deal about nuking the EU so they could "do something different" and then copied/stole a bunch of stuff from the EU and did all of it worse than the EU did, which is saying something. Movie spoilers and excessive fanboying follow:

Click here to see the hidden message (It might contain spoilers)


So had they just used the actual stuff from the EU directly, they could have kept the diehard fans happy, had all the backstory and exposition already done for them, and been able to basically get free money by reprinting the existing books and comics for old fans to pick up again and new fans to read as "movie tie-in novels" or the like, which seems like a win all around and much better than what we got.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mask_De_H
Duke


Joined: 18 Jun 2009
Posts: 1792

PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 7:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I don't give a shit about all of that spoiler, Emerald and I would bet you a non-zero amount of money that the target audience(s) wouldn't either. After a point, as a guy who makes old nerdy properties into flashy blockbusters, you have to realize who's going to allow you to pay for the hookers that lactate heroin and it sure as shit aren't the die-hards.

The thing is, with or without deliberately calling out the EU stuff, savvy fans would have picked up or made parallels to it anyway. Which is also probably why the stuff that was blatantly calling back to the original trilogy was there; to give people who vaguely remember the movies the chance to get the smug satisfaction of recognition.
_________________
Click here to see the hidden message (It might contain spoilers)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kaelik
ArchDemon of Rage


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 12087

PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 7:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Mask his point was that using the specific EU stuff he mentions would have just made the movie a better movie for the mass market too. He's at least right to an extent, the Imperial Reminent would be a lot better than this other garbage.

That said, the names of the characters who are basically an alternate version copy/paste of two characters with different names in the EU could not possibly be a more clear "FUCK OFF AND DIE PEOPLE WHO READ BOOKS" message at all. I mean, it's literally something that people who didn't read the books aren't going to get, and people who did read the books are going to realize exists 100000000% to make sure that they are going to do the same things the books did, but different, and worse, and with absolutely no respect for the books or logical coherence.
_________________
"DSMatticus" wrote:
Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?
That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
Click here to see the hidden message (It might contain spoilers)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Mask_De_H
Duke


Joined: 18 Jun 2009
Posts: 1792

PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 7:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I gotcha. I still wonder if that's potentially an attempt to have their semiotic cake and eat it too, being a complete ignoramus to the EU but cognizant of what directors and screenwriters do in regards to beloved nerd properties nowadays. Stupidity over malice, and all that.
_________________
Click here to see the hidden message (It might contain spoilers)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
FrankTrollman
Serious Badass


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 27159

PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 8:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Ben Kenobi was Leia's "only hope" in Episode IV, and then he died during the otherwise successful mission to rescue her from Death Star torture jail (after having disabled the tractor beam to help her escape). I would say that Leia naming her son "Ben" makes a lot of sense. Much more sense than naming a son "Jacen," which is just a fucking made up name that has no resonance to anything Leia has ever shown or done.

The male names established in Leia's family / friend circle include Ben, Bail, Luke, and Han. None of those names are Jacen or Anakin, which is one of the many reasons that the EU was dumb and all right thinking people cheered when it was de-canonized.

That being said, I'm going to be super annoyed when it turns out that Rey is a Skywalker or Solo. That is going to be super dumb.

-Frank
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kaelik
ArchDemon of Rage


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 12087

PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Uh... You realize that people name their kids names that are not the name of a specific person they know all the time right?

Also, I love how you rock in with "we only know four guys that Leia ever interacts with, so it makes plenty of sense that she would name her kid after the nickname she didn't know of a character that we have no evidence she ever met, because a Princess Diplomat probably never ran into anyone else ever that we didn't see, and could only name her kids after other people."

Now, don't get me wrong, Anakin is a stupid name, but let's not pick any bones, Leia is a name, Luke is a name, Jacen is a name, they are just regular people names not named after anyone. To say that Leia choosing to name her kid their own fucking name instead of her brother, her father, the father of the kid, or some guy she may or may not have ever met, and maybe just heard about is just you choosing to die on the hill that everything about the EU is terrible, even the objectively neutral things, like naming a kid Jacen.

I mean for fucks sake, your opinion would literally do a 180 if the movie had named the kids James and Rebecca.
_________________
"DSMatticus" wrote:
Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?
That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
Click here to see the hidden message (It might contain spoilers)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Longes
Prince


Joined: 04 Nov 2013
Posts: 2550

PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I think calling a kid "Obi-Wan Skywalker" would have broken some pretentiousness laws or something.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Gaming Den Forum Index -> MPSIMS All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next
Page 1 of 9

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group