Cartoons You Should Be Watching

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Shatner
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Cartoons You Should Be Watching

Post by Shatner »

I've come to the conclusion that we've entered an animation renaissance, with quite a few really high-quality shows out there. About a month ago I decided to investigate some of the shows I'd been peripherally aware were considered good and I was very pleased with what I found. It's an exciting time we live in, folks, and I want to point out a few of the choicest shows I've found while inviting you all to do the same.

Steven Universe

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Premise in 30-words-or-less: a boy is being raised/trained by a trio of aliens who are working to clean up the mess their own people made thousands of years ago.


The most surprising thing about Steven Universe is that what looks like a simple Monster of the Week show with a young POV character is actually an extremely mature, plot-driven sci-fi story. Everything the show refers to as magic is only magic in the Clarke's Law use of the term: the aliens are actually hard-light constructs and all of the weird monsters and dungeons and stuff are left-overs from an interstellar empire's attempt to harvest the earth thousands of years ago. The plot in a nutshell is that one of the aliens and her followers led a bloody, desperate rebellion against her own people to save the earth from being denuded and the native life from being killed off. After the rebellion, the leader and her tiny handful of surviving followers worked to catch all the bits of alien tech that were still rampaging around while also being on the look out for any attempt by the empire to reclaim the earth. Eventually this leader falls in love with a human and effectively dies in childbirth (her equivalent of a light bee gets absorbed into her son, which is why he has a gemstone for a navel), leaving her followers reeling. Steven gets to grow up raised by a trio of warriors who have never been a human nor a child, and have many complicated feelings towards the boy that kinda-sorta killed their former leader and kinda-sorta is their former leader.


The thing is, the POV character is a pre-teen and walking embodiment of a Friendship Speech who has no idea how to fight or use his powers (think Aang if he started the show as a neophyte air bender). That combined with every episode being just 11 minutes long means all of these mature themes, high-end sci-fi, and plot elements are hints and suggestions that build over time; SU has a big story to tell but it tells it one slice-of-life at a time. Steven matures and the stakes are raised and the story becomes clearer over time, but this show lets everything unfold bit-by-bit. This sort of patient story-telling is a rarity, especially in the medium of kids shows. Of the three cartoons I'm posting about here, Steven Universe was the show I had the most difficulty getting into but it's also the one I've gotten into the most. It's like looking at a Magic Eye picture: early on you just see a jumble of childish action but after a little while the show comes into focus and the result is impressive.


Lastly, I'll say this cartoon has some pretty radical ideas on display for a kids show. Steven is wholly lacking in machismo, his father is only a supporting character who is in no way a tough guy, and all of the other important characters, heroes and villians alike, are female. Steven is raised by three "moms" so the topic of unconventional family dynamics is front and center.

Also, there's a lot of sex. And lesbianism.

Really.

It's hidden behind a metaphor but it's a damn thin one. The show is rife with suggestive elements and mature themes and it's glorious.


You really should watch Steven Universe.
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EDIT: Copied the following from further in the thread

Alright, let's talk a bit about getting into Steven Universe. As I mentioned in my initial post, it was actually kind of hard for me to do, and reading the thread it looks like others have been on the fence for various reasons.

So, think back to book 5 or so of the Harry Potter series. Things are getting increasingly dire for Team Good Guys and Harry is becoming a full-on teen, with all the angst and bitching that entails. Remember how most people, possibly including you, found those sections to be annoying? Well, the fact is the Harry Potter series is better as a whole because those sections exist. Teenagers are whiny bitches to one degree or another and Harry had been through more than enough traumatic shit to deserve some on-camera angst. If he'd been written without it, his character and his story would feel flatter and less realistic. That doesn't necessarily make reading those sections any more enjoyable but the improved verisimilitude is worth it.

Those first 6 or so episodes of Steven Universe are like the angsty parts of Harry Potter: necessary but not to everyone's taste. At the very beginning, Steven is at his most naive and least empowered. At the very beginning, the setting (with all of its hidden depths) is at its least defined. At the very beginning, the plot is more-or-less idling in "monster of the week"-mode. And at eleven minutes each, that means sitting through just over an hour of material before the show starts to get good. I can certainly see people being unwilling, or at least hesitant, to jump in to that.

However, I will say that it is absolutely worth the effort. The show is, no pun intended, a real gem and more than makes up for its slow start. Episodes like Jail Break and Sworn to the Sword represent some of the best entertainment I've ever seen packed in to an 11 minute window.

My advice for folks on the fence is to watch the first episode and then watch the "Connie" episodes (scroll down to Episode Appearances section) since those are consistently high quality and because Connie is a great character. Keep watching those until you get curious enough to go back and watch the skipped episodes or decide definitively that this show just isn't for you. That way, by the time you've watched an hour of television, you've seen some choice episodes and had a taste of the plot, setting, and character development you can expect.
Last edited by Shatner on Mon Oct 05, 2015 11:45 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Post by Shatner »

Star vs. the Forces of Evil

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Premise in 30-words-or-less: an impulsive, tomboyish magical princess is sent to live on earth so she can mature someplace safe(ish). Trouble follows her anyway, much to her delight.


If Steven Universe is a slow, happy contemplation of youth and family, SvtFoE is a rainbow-saturated, sugar-fueled explosion of how damn much fun teenagers can have. Star Butterfly looks like a disney princess dialed up to eleven but she fights and flirts and flits about with manic abandon. You know that scene in Serenity where Kaylee, the harmless sunshine-and-optimism grease monkey, kicks all kinds of ass after realizing she'll get sex with the guy she's been pining for if they somehow survive? Star Butterfly inhabits that intersection of sweetness and ass-kickery all the time. All. The. Time.


Her co-star is a guy named Marco, who is basically Scott Pilgrim (insecure nerd boy with out-of-place-but-considerable fighting skills). The two of them go on adventures and punch a lot of monsters and have unresolved romantic tension. However, the show has solid contiuity across episodes and, though you wouldn't know it at first, it does have a larger story to tell. Unlike Steven Universe, this show only just finished it's first season so I can't speak to the scope or ambition of this story, but it looks very promising.


The art and animation for the show is excellent. SvtFoE may be slap happy and fast-paced but it manages to look great throughout. It also has exceptional voice-acting. Star's voice actress manages to deliver an Excel-level of energy in her performance all without becoming obnoxious, which is really quite impressive. Several veterans from The Simpsons, Futurama, and Archer are on hand to voice various characters, and the actor for Marco is spot-on as well. To continue the previous Serenty reference, Alan Tudyk (who played Wash on Firefly and King Candy in Wreck-It Ralph) is the voice for one of the show's primary villians and does an excellent job of it; he really is shaping up to be the next Mark Hamill of voice acting.


You really should watch Star vs. the Forces of Evil
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Last edited by Shatner on Mon Oct 05, 2015 11:38 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by Shatner »

Gravity Falls

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Premise in 30-words-or-less: siblings go to spend the summer with their eccentric great-uncle in small-town Oregan. This town turns out to be full of weird creatures and mysteries.


Did you ever watch Eerie, Indiana? Gravity Falls is basically that but exponentially better. It's a Welcome to Night Vale and Disney smoothy. It's Twin Peaks warped into a coming of age story for tweens. Gravity Falls is genius.


Here's the plot: Dipper and Mabel, a pair of twelve-year-old twins, spend their summer with their con artist great uncle who runs a hokey tourist trap. Dipper finds a journal from an unknown author detailing some of the weird stuff in the area and starts investigating it alongside his sister. The plot sounds fun but doesn't make it stand out from other toons. No, what makes Gravity Falls so good is that Gravity Falls is so well made. Big ideas and strong themes and striking visuals can do a lot, but there's no masking quality or the lack thereof and quality pervades this show; Alex Hirsch rolled a natural 20 on his Craft: Cartoon check. The writing is excellent. The voice-acting is excellent. The underlying story and the show's approach to revealing it are excellent. Despite being cartoonish, all the characters are three dimensional and believable, and the mystery driving the show is compelling. Like any good mystery, hints and clues are hidden throughout but are neither too obvious nor too obscure.


Despite being my long-time favorite of the three, I have the least to say about Gravity Falls. Simply put, it's really smart, really funny, and really, really good. It's hard to elaborate on that.

You really should watch Gravity Falls.
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Post by AcidBlades »

Y'know what cartoonist who's works should be watched?

Ralph Bakshi's. Fritz the Cat and Wizards are classics.
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Post by Leress »

AcidBlades wrote:Y'know what cartoonist who's works should be watched?

Ralph Bakshi's. Fritz the Cat and Wizards are classics.
I also recommend Coonskin.
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Post by Count Arioch the 28th »

I was told as a cisgendered bi male with passing privileges I wasn't permitted to watch Steven Universe as it's not made for me.
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Post by Prak »

Bullshit. Watch it. It's amazing. It's not like it's made for trans hermaphrodite genderqueer pansexuals above the age of ten, either, but I watch it all the same.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.
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Post by Count Arioch the 28th »

It's not so much I felt compelled to stay away, it's more like the people who have told me that I am not permitted to watch it have such shit tastes that was enough to convince me. However, I can give it a try.
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Post by MGuy »

Count Arioch the 28th wrote:It's not so much I felt compelled to stay away, it's more like the people who have told me that I am not permitted to watch it have such shit tastes that was enough to convince me. However, I can give it a try.
Despite having not watched it I have only heard good things about Steven Universe. I remember seeing a commercial where he had cats for fingers and that's what made me not watch it for a long time. Now it's just me not wanting to spend the time trying to watch it.
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Post by Darth Rabbitt »

For anyone who's unsure, I'd at least give Steven Universe a try. I enjoyed it and I legitimately can't remember the last time I've actually sat down and watched the entirety of a series.
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Post by Prak »

The cats for fingers episode is actually really weird and potentially creepy (if you get creeped out by overthinking cartoons).

Basically, all gems have some measure of shape shifting ability. Amethyst shapeshifts all the time, and Garnet can, but Pearl seems to not be fond of it. As a gem-hybrid, Steven has pretty much all gem abilities, and he decides to try shapeshifting. He starts by changing one finger into a cat, and as he tries to turn more of him into a cat, he gains a hand full of cat fingers, and eventually starts growing cats heads like tumors and has to crawl to his dad's car wash for his help.

Steven Universe is pretty awesome, and as opposed to, say, MLP which has episodes that pretty much only really appeal to its primary demographic, I can't think of an episode of SU that stands on its own merits for viewers of pretty much any age.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.
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FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
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Post by PhoneLobster »

I think I very much like Steven Universe, but do not know if I could actually recommend it to anyone.

It's just too... not anything in particular? Not reliably something I could safely say anyone I can think of would actually definitely or even with any certainty probably like? To the point that, yeah, I'm not actually sure I like it.

Sometimes I suspect the biggest reason I do (maybe) like it is that the show is sufficiently ambiguous that I don't actually know for certain if I do.

But with that sort of ambiguity I fear that one major bungle and it could lose me super fast, but I don't think it's coming, even the uncle grandpa episode managed well enough.
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Post by Prak »

Wait.

So you like Steven Universe because you don't know if you like it?

This actually makes sense, given that you hate everything, PL.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.
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FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
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Post by PhoneLobster »

Prak wrote:This actually makes sense, given that you hate everything, PL.
Look, I know the general rules of how the gaming den operates are suspended for me for some reason, but seriously, fuck you you fucking idiot.

I know people want to go on a bender against me for daring to be critical of stuff, occasionally including stuff they like, and declare me to therefore hate EVERYTHING, and pretend that everyone else on this board is a glowing positive thinker who never dares to have a critical opinion about stuff. But again, seriously, fuck you and them you fucking idiots.

In the mean time I know I like the first season of gravity falls, and I know I'm underwhelmed by the second one. I know I like star vs the forces of evil, I just know I don't like it much. Generally I hold fairly clear opinions on things. Steven universe is one of the few things I have an ambiguous opinion on. Like Norwegian Ninja.
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Post by Prak »

I seriously cannot remember the last thing you didn't say was absolute shit. You can be critical, but your critique of everything is "this is shit and its creators should be raked over hot coals for their temerity."

Edit: For anyone on the fence about Steven Universe, Bogleech just did a Halloween article about the more nightmare-inducing stuff from it.
Last edited by Prak on Sat Oct 03, 2015 10:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.
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FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
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Post by Kaelik »

PhoneLobster wrote:Look, I know the general rules of how the gaming den operates are suspended for me for some reason
I don't know what you think "the general rules of how the gaming den operates" are that makes you so mad. Someone noticed a pattern to your posting about entertainment media and extrapolated that to your opinion of all entertainment media?

Cry me a fucking river.
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Post by Josh_Kablack »

I thought the general rules of the Den were about being as abrasive as possible.
"But transportation issues are social-justice issues. The toll of bad transit policies and worse infrastructure—trains and buses that don’t run well and badly serve low-income neighborhoods, vehicular traffic that pollutes the environment and endangers the lives of cyclists and pedestrians—is borne disproportionately by black and brown communities."
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Post by Shady314 »

I second Gravity Falls. It's rare for a kids show to be genuinely funny yet have villains legitimately creepy and scary even for adults.
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Post by PhoneLobster »

Josh_Kablack wrote:I thought the general rules of the Den were about being as abrasive as possible.
Apparently not, apparently you need to regularly express positive opinions about things and refrain from negative ones or else be labelled a mean poopy head negative nancy by well known optimistic tone and positive opinion champions on the den like... hrm... yeah...
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Post by AcidBlades »

PhoneLobster wrote:
Josh_Kablack wrote:I thought the general rules of the Den were about being as abrasive as possible.
Apparently not, apparently you need to regularly express positive opinions about things and refrain from negative ones or else be labelled a mean poopy head negative nancy by well known optimistic tone and positive opinion champions on the den like... hrm... yeah...
The fuck are you going on about? You were a man who got disgusted at the thought of dwarves drinking beer from their beards, and getting up inside ogre asses.

Talk about weak constitutions. Do you have a cartoon do you like? Just for the sake of insulting you on your inevitably shit tastes.

My favorite cartoons in no order would be Ed, Edd and Eddy. Bojack Horsemen. The Boondocks (pre-season 4). Archer.

Despite the fact that Mr. Enter shat on it. I'm also a fan of 12 oz mouth. I laughed like a goony toon from it, and it's incomprehensibility and disgustingness is what I like about it in the first place. The Mouse man is like my cartoon idol back then, that and Cartmen from South Park. Before they Trey and Matt became insufferably libertarian.
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Post by Prak »

Well, PL did say that he likes the first season of Gravity Falls, and sort of likes Star Vs. The Forces Of Evil. And that he thinks he likes Steven Universe.

He just hasn't expressed a like for anything else in any thread on the Den except things he's written.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.
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FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
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Post by Leress »

Prak wrote:
He just hasn't expressed a like for anything else in any thread on the Den except things he's written.
*Sighs*, He said he likes Grandia 2 especially the battle system.

http://www.tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?t=48 ... start=4675
PhoneLobster wrote:Grandia 2 had arguably some of the best combat mechanics in any team based traditional RPG I have ever seen.

I have no idea about 1 or anything since 2, but if anyone is trashing Grandia 2's combat mechanics as "not a true JRPG" well... maybe, but if so, only because it was vastly more enjoyable, so yeah, ignore those dumb fuckers.
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Post by Prak »

Ok, fair enough. I don't really read that thread because I'm fucking broke so I don't play many video games.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.
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FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
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Post by Shatner »

Alright, let's talk a bit about getting into Steven Universe. As I mentioned in my initial post, it was actually kind of hard for me to do, and reading the thread it looks like others have been on the fence for various reasons.

So, think back to book 5 or so of the Harry Potter series. Things are getting increasingly dire for Team Good Guys and Harry is becoming a full-on teen, with all the angst and bitching that entails. Remember how most people, possibly including you, found those sections to be annoying? Well, the fact is the Harry Potter series is better as a whole because those sections exist. Teenagers are whiny bitches to one degree or another and Harry had been through more than enough traumatic shit to deserve some on-camera angst. If he'd been written without it, his character and his story would feel flatter and less realistic. That doesn't necessarily make reading those sections any more enjoyable but the improved verisimilitude is worth it.

Those first 6 or so episodes of Steven Universe are like the angsty parts of Harry Potter: necessary but not to everyone's taste. At the very beginning, Steven is at his most naive and least empowered. At the very beginning, the setting (with all of its hidden depths) is at its least defined. At the very beginning, the plot is more-or-less idling in "monster of the week"-mode. And at eleven minutes each, that means sitting through just over an hour of material before the show starts to get good. I can certainly see people being unwilling, or at least hesitant, to jump in to that.

However, I will say that it is absolutely worth the effort. The show is, no pun intended, a real gem and more than makes up for its slow start. Episodes like Jail Break and Sworn to the Sword represent some of the best entertainment I've ever seen packed in to an 11 minute window.

My advice for folks on the fence is to watch the first episode and then watch the "Connie" episodes (scroll down to Episode Appearances section) since those are consistently high quality and because Connie is a great character. Keep watching those until you get curious enough to go back and watch the skipped episodes or decide definitively that this show just isn't for you. That way, by the time you've watched an hour of television, you've seen some choice episodes and had a taste of the plot, setting, and character development you can expect.
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Post by PhoneLobster »

Prak wrote:He just hasn't expressed a like for anything else in any thread on the Den except things he's written.
Some of them may be dated enough to be long gone but I know I've openly recommended a number of movies and tv shows including Farscape, Rare Exports, Attack The Block and Delicatessen back in the day.

But what the hell, since when the fuck is the gaming den about proving your liking stuff credentials? When the fuck was "you aren't allowed to be critical without first talking about liking something!" even a thing around here? What IS our standard response to the well near annual failed troll wannabe gotcha thread of "Aw yeah, well then what the fuck RPG system DO all you big negative nancy gaming den fuckers actually LIKE then? I bet its NOTHING!"? Why is it that I have to prove my liking things credentials for some insane reason? What IS the new standard on how many Steven Universe praising threads you have start for an acceptable number of quidich criticism threads to create PERMISSIBLE ratio of naughty naughty unwanted critical negativity?

And what? I don't get credit for "productively" posting my own rules material on the den anymore? Because just a few years ago the big crazy demand people were making of me and no one else to prove I wasn't a negative nancy was to do THAT, which I'd already been doing anyway. Suddenly now I need to be an openly outed fan of god damn Bee and Puppycat before I'm allowed to trash Friendship Is Magic or something similar AS WELL?
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