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Prak
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Joined: 07 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2016 8:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

...

well, I went and bought some more BR cards with my tips from tonight to build something closer to your Fast and Furious list- 2 Asylum Visitors, 2 (more) Heirs, 4 Sinister Concoctions, 4 Avacyn's Judgment and 2 Sin Prodders. Also 4 Gravepurge.

Is there some option of fighting them which does not involve going out and maxing out my credit card to also netdeck? Preferably something that doesn't require going and buying some of the most valuable SOI singles?
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Dean, on Paranoia wrote:
The book is a hardbound liars paradox.


Winnah wrote:
No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.


FrankTrollman wrote:
In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
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FrankTrollman
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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2016 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Well, I went with a Delirium trample deck because I thought more people were going to play G/W Tokens. Actually, the guy who won did play G/W Tokens, but I didn't play him. I got my Anguished Unmaking because I dropped a game to Bant Company and beat an Eldrazi Ramp deck, a Zombies deck, and a G/R Werewolf Bears deck.

Anyway, the guy who came in second played a version of Red Deck Wins. That is to say: a pile of aggressively costed Red cards with a low curve. And honestly, if you were going to pack Incorrigible Youths, I think your deck should probably look like that. So rather than worrying over much about the Vampires theme, just come out swinging with aggressive red and black cards.

Having a Stensia Masquerade in play an playing an Ember Eyes Wolf sounds great. Yes. Really. Ember Eyes Wolf. Probably Lightning Berserkers while you're at it. Probably Ambuscade Shamans and/or Pitiless Hordes.

-Frank
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Prak
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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2016 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Yeah, I'm starting to think that while Rakdos Madness Vampires might work in SOI block play, it can't keep up in Standard. Unfortunately, I'm locked into playing this for this tournament. But I can try something else another time.
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Dean, on Paranoia wrote:
The book is a hardbound liars paradox.


Winnah wrote:
No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.


FrankTrollman wrote:
In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
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Prak
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Joined: 07 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2016 2:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

What do people think of this group of cards?


1. Discard to make a vampire, Madnessing for value if possible, 2. Turn the vampire into +1/+1 for your others or 1 life and a card, while draining your opponent, 3. Get the discarded cards back into your library.

Throw in Stensia Masquerade and call it the Party Vamps deck.

Edit: Now with theoretical decklist and a better name

Lost Boys
Creatures
4 Indulgent Aristocrats
4 Zulaport Cutthroats
4 Falkenrath Gorgers
4 Asylum Visitors
2 Incorrigible Youths

Spells
4 Call the Bloodlines
4 Vampiric Rites
2 Gravepurge
4 Fiery Temper
4 Alms of the Veins
3 Stensia Masquerade
2 From Under the Floorboards
2 Incorrigible Youths

Land
4 Foreboding Ruins
8 Swamp
7 Mountain

My immediate thought is to maybe take out a Stensia and a Floorboards for a couple of Heirs of Falkenrath. Also, some Rogues Passages would be good, but I'm not sure what to take out in preference.
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Dean, on Paranoia wrote:
The book is a hardbound liars paradox.


Winnah wrote:
No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.


FrankTrollman wrote:
In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.


Last edited by Prak on Mon May 02, 2016 3:39 am; edited 2 times in total
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FrankTrollman
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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2016 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Basically, I see Vampires as having two lines: the Value line and the Tempo line. There are vampires that can be justified in both (Asylum Visitor and Bloodmad Vampire, for example), but for the most part you should ask yourself if you're trying to rush down your opponent or trying to ratchet up value and win on attrition.

Incorrigible Youths is all in on a Tempo strategy. So I think ultimately if you have a Tempo strategy you should have four and if you don't you should have zero. The Tempo strategy should try to play itself like Red Deck Wins - each card should hit hard and fast. And because of that, it doesn't really need much in the way of a late game and has little reason to go all-in on the "Vampires" concept.

So a Tempo deck might look like this:

Lightning Berserker x4
Heir of Falkenrath x4
Bloodseeker x4
Ember Eye Wolf x4
Incorrigible Youths x4
Ambuscade Shaman x4
Voldaren Duelist x1

Stensia Masquerade x2
Fiery Temper x4
Avacyn's Judgement x1
Ultimate Price x4

24 lands.

Looking at that, a Sin Prodder or two could certainly fit in around the edges, and if you find yourself running out of cards replacing some or all of the Ambuscade Shamans with Asylum Visitors makes a lot of sense. In any case, your plan here is to count to twenty as quickly as possible.

Grave Purge is certainly interesting tech in a situation where you have Call the Bloodline and an Asylum Visitor. You could put creatures on your deck in an order where you could play them as you drew them and put four creatures a turn into play. But that's definitely a thing for the Value deck to think about.

-Frank
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Prak
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2016 12:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

So, how would something like this look for Modern?

1x Hellkite Overlord
2x Dragon's Herald
4x Rakdos Cackler
4x Scuzzback Scrapper
4x Lightning Berserker
2x Dragonmaster Outcast
4x Raging Goblin
2x Bloodhall Ooze
4x Wild Cantor
4x Vexing Devil
4x Zurgo Bellstriker
4x Kird Ape
4x Legion Loyalist
2x Foundry Street Denizen

4x Stomping Ground
11x Mountain

It's literally all 1 drops, except the Hellkite, which is bright it with the Herald.
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Dean, on Paranoia wrote:
The book is a hardbound liars paradox.


Winnah wrote:
No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.


FrankTrollman wrote:
In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
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Lord Mistborn
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2016 12:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Play less bad creatures and more burn spells. Like if you're on the budget modern red deck plan you want something more like

20 mountains

2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Goblin Guide
4 Young Pyromancer

4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt
4 Searing Blaze
3 Shard Volley
3 Skullcrack


Last edited by Lord Mistborn on Mon May 09, 2016 12:35 am; edited 1 time in total
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Prak
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2016 4:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Ok, since I'm apparently dumb, can you tell me what makes the creatures I listed bad (other than Dragon's Herald, that's sort of obvious, but it seemed like a not-terrible late game option.
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Dean, on Paranoia wrote:
The book is a hardbound liars paradox.


Winnah wrote:
No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.


FrankTrollman wrote:
In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
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Whipstitch
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Joined: 29 Apr 2011
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2016 4:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

1 drops are an aggro signature but with that many you're giving up a lot of resilience, power and reach for very little gain. The stereotypical zoo deck with 30 creatures and only a splash of burn usually only gets away with that crap because they pack some actual bruisers and because their cheap critters can ramp or get pretty swole in their own right. If your deck merely lacked a great plan for dealing with Languish and Siege Rhinos, that'd be one thing. What really worries me is that I'm not too sure what you're supposed to do about Scouring Sands, Drowning in Sorrow or Seismic Rupture.
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Lord Mistborn
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2016 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Like Whipstich says if they drop an sweeper you just lose, plus those creatures can't rumble with the creatures better aggro decks are playing like Wild Nactal and Tarmogoyf.

There also the philosophy of fire. You're goal as a Red deck is to trade your cards for their life total to which the gold standard is lightning bolt 1 mana 1 card 3 damage. If you could play nothing but bolts you probably would. Your one drops are judged based on if they can perform up to the standard of bolt. The first one drop if it's a good one drop like Guide or Swiftswiftspear will do that it may even overperform, maybe the third will as well but probably not and neither will any of the ones you play after. So that's 2 maybe 3 of the 7 bolts you need to kill them, you're going to need actual bolts for the other 4-5.


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Whipstitch
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2016 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I mostly quit magic around '98 and have really only kept up with terminology through the occasional booster draft. Long story short, I was clearing out my closet and found enough Tropical Islands that I'm thinking of making a down payment on a tropical island. Totally forgot that I had any.
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Prak
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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2016 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Planeswalkers piss me off, because they seem like they warp the metagame to the point where if your opponent has one, you need one. Actually, I'd be fine with that if they weren't Mythic Rare, even if I get the flavor reason for that.

Given that you basically have to open a booster box to have a reasonable chance of opening a single Planeswalker, the only real way to get one is to buy it on the singles market.

So, given that I'm not particularly able to just drop $40 on a card, could people give me an idea of what the best budget planeswalkers are?
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Dean, on Paranoia wrote:
The book is a hardbound liars paradox.


Winnah wrote:
No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.


FrankTrollman wrote:
In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
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Eikre
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Joined: 03 Aug 2009
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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2016 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

You absolutely don't need planeswalkers any more than you need, like, a legendary 6 CMC creature. Yes, they are bombs; if one hits the field, you need an answer, a way to stall it, or a faster win condition. But so what?

Planeswalkers are interesting because they are vulnerable to the same stuff that a player's lifepoints are, which means that lots of the "answers" to them are, themselves, threats. They are designed to give you (the person looking at one from across the table) a turn-to-turn benefit for putting on the pressure. Players don't experience any fatigue from losing lifepoints (up until they lose outright), but Planeswalkers all have a built-in bomb that is stalled or defused with lifepoint damage and advanced when they're left unmolested.

This is another way to demand that your opponent's deck remain versatile, and they have taken pains to makes sure that there are eternally-competitive planeswalkers out of every block even though there are comparatively few of them, so you do notice that there's a higher proportion of them turn out to be pretty efficient motherfuckers. That still doesn't make them different than, say, enchantments or artifacts. Judge them on their merits, not as a necessary inclusion.

Anyway. One of the best ways to get eternally-competitive cards is to be in on the ground floor, but I don't think you've got the stones for it. Still, you can try shelling out for interesting walkers shortly after prerelease and skip out on the rocketing prices when netdeckers see them preforming in the pro leagues. A recent example is the newest Chandra card, against which a lot of people were biased, because not many Chandras (or red planeswalkers in general) have been very good. Also, a lot of people were biased against any planeswalker who costs less than four mana because of jedi curve that most of the originals were programmed on, which probably contributed to how flip-walkers had such a low starting price before some of their violent upswings when people determined they were actually legacy playable.

I also suspect those "Oath of" cards from Gateswatch have unappreciated utility with some of the historically underperformering walkers, but I'm also certain that a lot of casuals have been interested in superfriend decks with shitty budget planeswalkers, so that might not be the unexplored territory that it could have been.

If you want to continue pursuing both of the formats I've seen you playing in this thread, you can invest more in Red Madness for both standard and modern and pick up some Tibalts, Fiend-Blooded for when you play the latter. Tibalt is maligned as being, like, the worst walker, but there's kind of a revival thing going on right now with him and maybe you'd like to participate in that.
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Prak
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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2016 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Yeah, I think my big problem with Planeswalkers is that I wasn't playing when they were released and I'm still learning about them and seriously forget that I can attack them and such. Because I'm dumb. Thanks.
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Dean, on Paranoia wrote:
The book is a hardbound liars paradox.


Winnah wrote:
No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.


FrankTrollman wrote:
In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
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Prak
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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2016 12:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

So what formats do people here actually play? How many of you just play tournaments vs casual?
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Dean, on Paranoia wrote:
The book is a hardbound liars paradox.


Winnah wrote:
No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.


FrankTrollman wrote:
In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
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Whipstitch
Prince


Joined: 29 Apr 2011
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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2016 2:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I have been playing a lot of limited latey. I'm by far the most casual member of a playgroup that used to be fairly serious but lost a lot of steam to adulthood. Most of my knowledge just comes from being in the game since mid '94. We were young enough when I started that the most expensive deck belonged to a friend of mine who had two paper routes and a doting grandfather who liked to give hundred dollar bills for Christmas.
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Prak
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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2016 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I started playing in 94 too, I just was never much of a competitive player, and never really followed the competitive metagame. I'm a crap deckbuilder, and a decent casual player, but that's about it.
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Dean, on Paranoia wrote:
The book is a hardbound liars paradox.


Winnah wrote:
No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.


FrankTrollman wrote:
In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
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OgreBattle
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Joined: 03 Sep 2011
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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2016 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Last time I played regularly was with some coworkers in Beijing where we got a whole set of pirated cards (the greek setting and M12, I think) and built decks from that pile. Occasionally some real cards were bought by some players.

Now I occasionally use MTG card editors to make my own cards. An idea on the back burner is a self contained Demon's/Dark Souls/Bloodborne set, doing of representing the Plansewalker card type as covenants.

It'd take around 250 cards to really be self contained, will try out the "no vanilla lands" idea. Factions will lean towards...

Black: Abyss and Age of Dark fellows, Dark magicians
Blue: Bloodborne Kin and Great ones, Soul sorcerers
Red: Chaos demons and witches, maybe dragons and their covenant
Green: Bloodborne beasts, Forest Watchers and forest critters
White: Anor Londo deities, Warriors of Sunlight, Miracle using clerics

--

The return to Zendikar sets are fun looking.


Last edited by OgreBattle on Wed May 18, 2016 9:35 am; edited 2 times in total
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Schleiermacher
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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2016 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I started playing (casually, I was a kid) around 7th edition and played a fair bit of Limited during Invasion and Odyssey block. I never played in any Constructed tournaments, but I played a fair amount of casual Constructed. Then I drifted out of the game (we all started playing D&D and Vampire instead, if I recall) until Kamigawa when I started drafting again. Then I quit again after Time Spiral block, and for the longest time I only played the odd casual game. Now I'm thinking of starting to go to drafts again.

I like playing Constructed and building various gimmicky decks, but I don't have the disposable income nor inclination to participate in constructed tournaments, and casual constructed is all over the place as far as deck power levels go. So I think my preferred format is casual limited -drafting card pools made out of those cardboard boxes of crap commons from 15 different sets that we all have lying around. In many ways, I think Magic is more fun the lower the card quality, because there's more interaction - the more polished decks are, the more it becomes a race of everyone just attempting to implement their strategy, but when all your cards are weird jank that were never intended to be played together, unpredictable and interesting things happen as you try to make use of them somehow.


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Prak
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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2016 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I agree with the "magic is more fun with less polished decks" sentiment. If I'm playing someone and I basically get to do nothing because they dropped multi-hundreds of dollars on a control thopter-sword deck and my deck is "Hey, slivers are cool. Ooh, I could focus on Virulent Sliver!" it fucking sucks to sit there and have little to no impact on the game. But if I lose in a draft because the other guy's jank deck of strung together stuff happened to go off when mine didn't, but it felt like we were actually playing each other, that's way more fun.

I'd love to win magic games, but if I just get to have fun, I'll take it, even if I lose.

I might have to put together some draft packs from my giant collection of mediocre cards for my birthday stuff with my friends.
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Dean, on Paranoia wrote:
The book is a hardbound liars paradox.


Winnah wrote:
No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.


FrankTrollman wrote:
In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
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Prak
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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2016 6:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Kind of thinking about doing a French Commander tournament tomorrow, can I get some input on this deck?

Obviously, the idea is to get as much life as possible and punch my opponent in the face with Serra Avatar.
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Dean, on Paranoia wrote:
The book is a hardbound liars paradox.


Winnah wrote:
No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.


FrankTrollman wrote:
In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
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Whipstitch
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Joined: 29 Apr 2011
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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2016 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

TBH, I'm a bit based against unpolished decks. I think part of the problem is that a lot of the people who play jank are the same people who play orks in 40k. Theme and gimmick decks can be fun and all but there's a line somewhere between keeping it casual and drunkenly riding your unicycle into a ditch.

@Prak

As far as your deck goes I'll keep the advice brief since it's rather late to be doing tweaks given your timeline and my ignorance of your alternatives. Plus, I figure if you just wanted to netdeck instead of play angels & life gain we wouldn't be having this conversation at all.

Anyway, my big tips would be ditching many of the enchantments and pure life gain for more land, removal and equipment. 30 plains feels like a lot by standard reckoning but it's actually pretty light when you're dealing with a 100 card deck and want to use unramped fatties as a win condition. Stuff like Glyph of Life on a Wall of Glare is the definition of cute but impractical--you've got 100 cards, no guarantee of getting the combo out and then still require your opponent to walk into it to accomplish anything. That's not at all worth packing a card that'll be a dead draw way more often than not, so seriously, just put in another Plains. I'd also encourage you to think of life gain as something you can get as an incidental benefit rather than a main attraction. Faith's Fetters and Basilisk Collar are like infinity times better than Congregate or Benediction of Moons.

Oh, and at some point get yourself a Lightning Greaves. There's nothing more demoralizing than scratching and clawing your way to turn 6+ to drop an unramped fatty only to have that bastard get blown off the table when your opponent untaps. At least get a swing out of the damn thing and make them chump block it.
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Prak
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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2016 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Yeah, I decided to not go last night, because I know I make gimmicky decks rather than competitive decks. I really wish I had more opportunity to play casual, but I guess that's what life as an adult is like.

I revised the deck last week and tried to go more towards cards that had life gain as a side benefit. But then I also realized I was running a lot of angels, and decided to tack on an angel theme. I do have a lightning greaves, I need to remember it more...
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Dean, on Paranoia wrote:
The book is a hardbound liars paradox.


Winnah wrote:
No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.


FrankTrollman wrote:
In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
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SlyJohnny
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Joined: 23 Jan 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Are 2x Forbidden Alchemy, 2x Armored Skaab, a Civilised Scholar and a Hedron Crab going to put enough corpses in my graveyard to support a deck that contains:

3x Stitched Drake, a Makeshift Mauler, a Relentless Skaabs, (which each need one exiled card) 2x Skaab Goliath (which need 2 exiled cards) and a Skaab Ruinator (which needs 3 exiled cards, and which I can cast from the graveyard until I run out of creatures or someone exiles it)?

Is there a formula or anything?


Last edited by SlyJohnny on Tue Jun 21, 2016 5:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Prak
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 4:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

So, Eldritch Moon spoilers started Monday, and it was revealed that

Click here to see the hidden message (It might contain spoilers)


*sigh*

Yeah, more fucking [things].

Thoughts?
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Dean, on Paranoia wrote:
The book is a hardbound liars paradox.


Winnah wrote:
No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.


FrankTrollman wrote:
In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
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