D&D Setting Ideas

[Mistborn]

So I've been bouncing around ideas for D&D settings and stuff so I thought I'd make another "how do we make D&D concepts into a sensible setting" thread.

{this one was inspired by dean's D&D cosmology}

Law and Chaos in D&D: now with less giant frog
Law and Chaos in D&D has never made sense and have been responsible for more arguments than pretty much anything in D&D. Partly that's because "the forces of Chaos" were one there as a euphemism for team evil. However Gygax for some bizarre reason decided D&D need both "Evil" and "Chaos" as moral alignments in fact it need "Good", "Law", "Evil", "Chaos" and even fvcking "Neutrality" all mixed together to make nine flavors of bullshit. So why are not just throwing out this nonsense, well it's because we want to have our cake and eat it too.

We want to have cosmic forces who are bad enough that you can be murder hobos and not feel bad about it, but we also have some kind of cosmic balance that PCs can fight for that isn't stupid. The "Balance between good and evil" where there has to be X amount of puppy kicking or the setting explodes is stupid and abhorrent. If you want a cosmic balance the PCs can get on board with it needs to not involve stopping people from stabbing Qz'zgl the baby eater in the face. So our cosmic balance is between Law and Chaos, in order for that to work Law and Chaos can't be moral alignments, they can't even be philosophical alignments. They're Cosmological alignments.

The Primal Chaos
Long ago before the gods ordered the world the primes background magic field was unstable. The Druids were able to impose some order with their stone circles but wild magic washed across the plane in great currents and storms. Many creatures drank in power and were able to grow big, strong, and strange. The fey roamed the prime unchecked. The land was full of magical beasts, elemental nexus and stuff it not a good time to be a humanoid since cultivated land or even permanent settlements were basically impossible. Survival often required living like mammals in the age of the dinosaurs or grueling servitude to mighty beings in exchange for protection. (don't think too hard about why so many humans carry the blood of dragons).

Fortunately while individual humans were weak there were many of them and their prayers and aspirations made powerful being in the higher planes which are the Cosmic Order and the will souls. The first generation of gods was united in desire to bring some semblance of order to the world. They slew many of the most terrible monsters and erected a vast infrastructure to enforce the cosmic order on the magical background field. Of course they had a falling out before they could completely finish their great project so in the deep wilderness so some places remain where magic runs wild. The forces of Law want to complete the first gods work and bring complete order to the prime. The forces of Chaos want free the world from it's bindings and let the magestorms rage once more. The forces of Balance believe that both Law and Chaos are a threat to the Prime's ability to perpetuate itself.

This is why there are so few monsters in civilized lands and so many in the untamed wilderness. Magical beats feed on the flux of the background magic field and in places where it's untamed they can support themselves on less food than the size of their bodies suggest. Of course when they enter civilized lands suddenly they have to eat a lot more and thus immediately become a problem for civilization. It's also why the Underdark is full of crazy magical crap. The gods work doesn't extend that far below the surface.

The Primal Chaos isn't entirely bad however monsters may grow strong off it's power but it also underlies the ability of mortals to grow mighty and wield magic innately. Many idealistic followers of Chaos believe that if magestorms returned now humanities understanding of magic would allow every man to be a mage in his own right ushering in a new era of freedom and prosperity. Of course the forces Chaos also contain people who want to tear down civilization to create a darwinian hellscape along with monsters who just want a return to the time when they had the run of the prime and the humanoids were less uppity.

The Cosmic Order
Of course the Primal Chaos isn't the only power that can shape reality. every soul has a limited ability to define the world especially the celestial and infernal realms. For most it's not much but can add up especially when a lot of humanoids believe in something. Like a God. But that power can be seen on a smaller scale, people don't just belive in their gods they believe in their leaders too. This is why the good king Draxl is a badass despite never adventuring his people are all unconsciously delegating some of their ability to shape reality to him. This is why some powerful beings bother ruling nations in the first place and why nations can exist at all in a world of monsters and adventurers. Some people have power that's not innate it is "invested" in the by others.

This has the nice result of Kingdoms looking a lot like the way we thing they should. The good king Draxl's knights travel around the kingdom righting wrongs and even king himself sometimes seen healing the sick because the need the peoples good will in order to retain their Paladin powers. On the other hand less nice rulers often make laws that exist solely to "prove" their power when the people are forced to follow them. So the House of Rahl bans open displays of fire because every time the peasants willing go without torches of bonfires they acknowledge Darken Rahl as their sovereign and make his access to 7th level spells just a little bit more secure.

The big thing that souls enforce collectively however is the "cosmic order". Some fundamental truths of the universe are believed to be so innate to the nature of souls that all souls automatically enforce them. The goal of many Law aligned entities is to expand the scope and power of this to the point that the Primal Chaos is completely suppressed. This would mean the only invested power would be usable. Some would like to go even further and have only one "network" of invested power exist (usually one they are at the top of so only they or the people they've delegated can wield magic). It dovetails very nicely with the classic "law" exemplars in 3e the Inevitables having their strongest members tasked with stopping people from abusing magic, toppling gods, or messing with the fabric of time.

[Kaelik]

now with less giant frog

I found the first major flaw with your post.

[Ancient History]

For once, Kaelik and I agree on something.

[Zaranthan]

I like the different power structures. Chaos lets every individual roll the dice for phenomenal cosmic power, and any number of them can come up boxcars. Law actually dictates who gets to cast Holy Sword, so their heroes don't have to fight for authority.

[Stinktopus]

The Law vs. Chaos thing has never been a problem for me. I have dealt with, in real life, people who feel that nobody should ever have authority over them. I have also dealt with people who think we should all be obedient cogs in the machine, up to, and including the point where the machine decides it runs better without you.

[Kaelik]

The Law vs. Chaos thing has never been a problem for me. I have dealt with, in real life, people who feel that nobody should ever have authority over them. I have also dealt with people who think we should all be obedient cogs in the machine, up to, and including the point where the machine decides it runs better without you.

Yeah, I know both those people, and law/choas never bothered me as just a conflict where both sides are wrong on the immortal outsider scale, and right in their own dumb ways on the mortal scale.

[Mistborn]

The Law vs. Chaos thing has never been a problem for me. I have dealt with, in real life, people who feel that nobody should ever have authority over them. I have also dealt with people who think we should all be obedient cogs in the machine, up to, and including the point where the machine decides it runs better without you.

Yeah, I know both those people, and law/choas never bothered me as just a conflict where both sides are wrong on the immortal outsider scale, and right in their own dumb ways on the mortal scale.

The idea is to have two forces that a) have an agenda that makes sense b) are opposed to each other c) "balance" is viable and non-repugnant option and d) have agents of both be able to guest star on both the red and blue teams and things still make sense.

The current definitions can't even do a)

[Kaelik]

The current definitions can't even do a)

It does just as well at a) as your version, and it doesn't require as much made up setting bullshit backstory.

[OgreBattle]

The starting point of D&D cosmology should be "What kind of cool end-boss monster does it provide for combat?"

Something like...

Lawful Evil: Dapper devils with trimmed mustaches
Chaotic Evil: Bestial demons with bristly beards

Law: Robot people
Chaotic: Tentacle things taken from Lovecraft

Lawful Good: Glowing dapper idealized people in fancy armor.
Chaotic Good: Glowing idealized people of scruffy individuality, like amerindian braves and drink-happy vikings.


Because the only time I really hear people interacting with gods is when they're attempting to kill one, or kill a rival god on behalf of their patron god. And then you can work down from there with what kind of minions and champions these divine beings have.

Stepping away from D&D cosmology, I like how the Shin Megami Tensei series has "Law & Chaos" but no "good & evil" because both have potential for goodness or assholery.

[Kaelik]

Chaotic: Tentacle things taken from Lovecraft

You are a blasphemer of the highest order, and your death by Giant Frog will be richly deserved.

[PhoneLobster]

So... OP...

Where are the setting ideas promised in the title?

All I see is stupid deep background high level concept FAPPING that gives no actual useful setting micro that could EVER BE USEFUL IN A FUCKING GAME.

Oh you've marginally defined/redefined/fapped to some details about what is or isn't primal chaos WHOOPDEFUCKINGDOO.

What's my starting adventure? What are my starting surroundings and cultures like? What sort of characters can I play? What sort of gear or skills are available? What sort of people or monsters or organizations will ACTUALLY be interacted with on ACTUAL adventures?

Oh your "setting" is "well there was primal chaos, and now it makes more sense (to me)!"? Oh, sure maybe once I'm at the epic level wankathon of reshaping reality you promise it will totes kick in as useful material?

Fuck off. Write an actual setting level fucking 1-20 cares about already. Case in point, as narrow and jokey as Ogrebattle's point was, it's immediately immeasurably more useful as "a D&D setting idea" than your opening post material.

[maglag]

Chaotic Good: Glowing idealized people of scruffy individuality, like amerindian braves and drink-happy vikings.

A bit off-topic, but could someone please explain me how the fuck can anyone consider vikings good when they're the historical textbook representation of RAPEPILLAGESTEALKILLMAIMBURN? They weren't even that brave, because their whole mode of life was based on "Let's attack that defenceless coastal village and then sail away before they can rally up any kind of defence". When vikings saw a location had managed to raise any kind of decent defence, they said NOPE! and turned their boats around looking for weaker targets

[Username17]

Chaotic Good: Glowing idealized people of scruffy individuality, like amerindian braves and drink-happy vikings.

A bit off-topic, but could someone please explain me how the fuck can anyone consider vikings good when they're the historical textbook representation of RAPEPILLAGESTEALKILLMAIMBURN? They weren't even that brave, because their whole mode of life was based on "Let's attack that defenceless coastal village and then sail away before they can rally up any kind of defence". When vikings saw a location had managed to raise any kind of decent defence, they said NOPE! and turned their boats around looking for weaker targets

D&D Thor is drawn by Jack Kirby and played by Chris Hemsworth in the live action version.

-Username17

[Kaelik]

Real life pantheon's in D&D suffer from the problem that people believe their gods are for the most part good, except for the occasional twisted brother fallen one, and that other people's gods don't exist.

So every real life pantheon has a bunch of ostensibly good gods, because even if they aren't good, for the most part they smite you if you don't call them that, and then like one shitty evil god.

Which sucks, but at least we still have Vecna and Auril, and that is enough for me.

[Mistborn]

So... OP...

Where are the setting ideas promised in the title?

All I see is stupid deep background high level concept FAPPING that gives no actual useful setting micro that could EVER BE USEFUL IN A FUCKING GAME.

Oh you've marginally defined/redefined/fapped to some details about what is or isn't primal chaos WHOOPDEFUCKINGDOO.

What's my starting adventure? What are my starting surroundings and cultures like? What sort of characters can I play? What sort of gear or skills are available? What sort of people or monsters or organizations will ACTUALLY be interacted with on ACTUAL adventures?

Oh your "setting" is "well there was primal chaos, and now it makes more sense (to me)!"? Oh, sure maybe once I'm at the epic level wankathon of reshaping reality you promise it will totes kick in as useful material?

Fuck off. Write an actual setting level fucking 1-20 cares about already. Case in point, as narrow and jokey as Ogrebattle's point was, it's immediately immeasurably more useful as "a D&D setting idea" than your opening post material.

The idea is there's a network of structures scattered around the countryside that stabilize the background magic field which can be destroyed or added too at levels players might actually reach. So you can fight bomb throwing anarchists who want to tear down the silver spires that keep monsters out of king Draxls domain. Or possibly fight a tyrannical lord who's killing the elves great forests by building new black monoliths there. Or maybe try to civilize the Bane Mires once and for all by by building your own additions to the network.

[angelfromanotherpin]

A bit off-topic, but could someone please explain me how the fuck can anyone consider vikings good when they're the historical textbook representation of RAPEPILLAGESTEALKILLMAIMBURN?

The viking age is the European Dark Ages; there isn't a lot of competition for being moral. But the Norse system of government involved a lot more voting and rule of law than most others of the time. Also, they weren't perpetuating Dark Ages Catholicism, a definite plus.

When vikings saw a location had managed to raise any kind of decent defence, they said NOPE! and turned their boats around looking for weaker targets

Yeah, they never attacked fortified towns or conquered entire kingdoms. What a bunch of weaksauce.

[PhoneLobster]

The idea is there's a network of structures scattered around the countryside that stabilize the background magic field which can be destroyed or added too at levels players might actually reach. So you can fight bomb throwing anarchists who want to tear down the silver spires that keep monsters out of king Draxls domain. Or possibly fight a tyrannical lord who's killing the elves great forests by building new black monoliths there. Or maybe try to civilize the Bane Mires once and for all by by building your own additions to the network.

So... an opportunity for stupid evil to be stupid evil by means of [plot device that summons monster] only [plot device that summons monster] has 2 pages of backstory about really boring generic primal chaos?

And players can go and colonize places... by building abstract plot devices instead of oh, I don't know, colonies.

Well gee, that's ok then. Wait, no, it still sucks I mean now it sucks in ways that are barely relevant to actual RPG settings and game play, so you did that much...

[MGuy]

In my current campaign I decided that the outsiders (for reasons) want to control the mortal plane. To do this they need worshipers because (for reasons) they cannot show up themselves. These outsiders are not omnipotent and only know what is whispered to or shown to them by those that worship them.

To help with their take over they can enlist the aid of avatars (clerics) that they can grant (but not take away) powers. In addition, these beings cannot be readily contacted or even understood well by 'normal' minds so a whole lot of things are lost in translation. These Outsiders are not one big group so rivalries and old rifts exist between them. There also is hardly any reason for other groups (both mortal and otherwise) to want for a particular Outsider (read: deity) to get more influence so there are parties interested in thwarting their attempts.

For example Druidic orders serve 'nature' (or at least aspects of it). Since they (and similar factions) can do many of the things these sects can they are very often put at odds with each other. Mortal kingdoms sometimes co-opt or work against various religions. Some groups decided it is better to work together and create whole pantheons dedicated to multiple 'deities' and such. Some people even want to become Gods themselves and seek out ways to do it.

Without going into further detail that's what I have going. I do not like the whole "Law v Chaos" thing any more than the "Good v Evil" thing. Since DnD has a bunch of Gods and Demon Lords and shit, it makes more sense to me just to have their be some number of powerful (and distant) beings with different methods and desires. 'Magic' already exists so I don't see the point of taking out time to explain that chaos mojo can change reality when the default 'magic' explanation is already there.

[maglag]

A bit off-topic, but could someone please explain me how the fuck can anyone consider vikings good when they're the historical textbook representation of RAPEPILLAGESTEALKILLMAIMBURN?

The viking age is the European Dark Ages; there isn't a lot of competition for being moral. But the Norse system of government involved a lot more voting and rule of law than most others of the time. Also, they weren't perpetuating Dark Ages Catholicism, a definite plus.

Actually, pretty much all the vikings converted to Catholicism over the years, so they were fully supporting it and there's even the records of viking donations to the church and shit.

They all shared a love for burning other people's stuff (including the people themselves) after all.

When vikings saw a location had managed to raise any kind of decent defence, they said NOPE! and turned their boats around looking for weaker targets

Yeah, they never attacked fortified towns or conquered entire kingdoms. What a bunch of weaksauce.

Indeed, attacking fractured targets whose leaders had to watch out constantly for backstabbing.

This is, the ruler of Paris was all "Just grab this gold and fuck off vikings, I've got real problems to deal with here."

[hyzmarca]

Honestly, I like the idea of a campaign where Law won and you need to fill out forms in triplicate to do anything. If someone stabs you in the face, you have a fill out a stabbed in the face form and get a license to be stabbed in the face.

You can't even die without a death permit, so you have to walk to the local office with a sword sticking out of your face, wait in line for hours, and prove to the clerk that you have a fatal injury.

The end result is that the war between Good and Evil is heavily planned and regimented.

You don't just have wandering monsters attacking a town and eating people. You have licensed wandering monsters with a permit to attack a town and a quota of people to eat.

Monsters are unionized and towns court them with all sorts of benefits because being attacked by a powerful monster is prestigious and can bring in tourism money.

[codeGlaze]

I actually put together my setting in a very similar way to OP.

Naturally Primal Energy is sort of like a fog, or static, and actually makes it difficult to cast specific spells (teleport, scrying, etc). But civilized areas built big research towers which act as refinement nodes/ contenders / focuses. Which allows for better control and easier casting, less intereference.

I also used magic-as-sustenance.

[Slade]

Honestly, I like the idea of a campaign where Law won and you need to fill out forms in triplicate to do anything. If someone stabs you in the face, you have a fill out a stabbed in the face form and get a license to be stabbed in the face.

You can't even die without a death permit, so you have to walk to the local office with a sword sticking out of your face, wait in line for hours, and prove to the clerk that you have a fatal injury.

The end result is that the war between Good and Evil is heavily planned and regimented.

You don't just have wandering monsters attacking a town and eating people. You have licensed wandering monsters with a permit to attack a town and a quota of people to eat.

Monsters are unionized and towns court them with all sorts of benefits because being attacked by a powerful monster is prestigious and can bring in tourism money.

Wait, if you don't get a death license: do you not die?

Do you become a Divergent? (the movie just real... well relevant)

[hyzmarca]

Wait, if you don't get a death license: do you not die?

Yep. And that can be real unpleasant, because in a dualistic universe not being able to die isn't the same as being immune to damage. Imagine being a fully alive and aware log of dragon poop.

People get death licenses to avoid fates worse than death.

And you can have an adventure centered around securing a death license for a log of dragon poop that was once a human.

[Leress]

Yep. And that can be real unpleasant, because in a dualistic universe not being able to die isn't the same as being immune to damage. Imagine being a fully alive and aware log of dragon poop.

[Sakuya Izayoi]

Maybe cosmic forces don't need to be polar opposites, like how cold can go down to absolute zero, but heat is just energy and if you have too much of it you can always make another star or something. Like, absolute evil/chaos exists, like Chaos in Amber/Moorcock, but there is no Ultimate Good, just your ability to uphold an ethos. If there is an upper limit, no one's ever reached it, but creatures such as Metatron, Buddha, Merciful Mother Kannon, and such have gotten further than others. The "rules of nature" are a thing that can be obeyed and strengthen you by doing so, empowering the nature fappers like druids and rangers, and animals can ascend to the Happy Hunting Grounds and become kami like Amaterasu, while sentient cratures doing the same might become Wyld Hunters or somesuch.

Heavy karmic weight can be what allows demons and devils to invade an area. Suffering begets suffering, and suffering cascades until the entire village/town/city/area/continent begins to sink into Hell/The Abyss/Avici. Powerful champions exposed to high levels of karma become Asura, and begin taking levels in Elothar to do things like grow exta arms, purple skin, a fuckton of eyes, super strength, flight, SSJ hair, or whatever they need to be a threat.

For PCs, they're offered the chance to Elothar to RP the process of becoming Asura, rather than the traditional use of alignment, screwing divine casters out of their signature abilities. None of that here, fallen bodhisattva is a thing that happens all the time and they don't really lose divine abilities or anything.

RE: piles of dragon excrement with a soul, stuff like that could become Asura if left to suffer for too long too, explaining how a lot of D&D monsters that can't really be explained by natural selection and selfish genes come to be. I could believe a Beholder used to be a dragon's lunch.