Ek Spee

General questions, debates, and rants about RPGs

Moderator: Moderators

Post Reply
ghost whistler
Journeyman
Posts: 103
Joined: Wed Aug 19, 2015 3:00 pm

Ek Spee

Post by ghost whistler »

Does experience or 'XP' really work in pen and paper/tabletop gaming?

Assuming a setting where we want a zero to hero progression, I have yet to see a system that actually works. Even then is it really satisfying to just increase stats all the time? That's what xp really amounts to: get points bump up stats, buy abilities, fight harder monsters.

When the GM is told to award a bunch of points based on circumstances, never mind a cherrry on top for 'good roleplaying' (which should be happening anyway), it seems at odds with the fact the GM is the architect of that adventure. XP systems seem to represent an arbitrary series of events - as you'd get in video games - rather than the PC's experiences being the result of whatever the GM has planned (if he for example writes a session with no combat, you get no xp for killling monsters).

It all seems like needless busywork just to either get the players to a point where their characters are interesting or competent, or to create a journey for journey's sake. Most xp systems don't represent anything more than physical improvements, not the impact of experiences emotionally, socially, or even spiritually.
Last edited by ghost whistler on Mon Sep 07, 2015 8:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
PhoneLobster
King
Posts: 6403
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Re: Ek Spee

Post by PhoneLobster »

ghost whistler wrote:Does experience or 'XP' really work in pen and paper/tabletop gaming?
Generally, no, it doesn't really work. It actually is basically pointless busy work at best and broken bullshit at worst.

Ostensibly it sort of has about one reason to exist (other than legacy stupidity) as a way of giving something out between discrete levels so players get a vague feeling of advancement...

...but if you actually acknowledged that your XP system wouldn't look like most XP systems look.

It would look more like this...
me wrote:The Gold Star Level Up System
When the group, or even an individual character achieves something arbitrarily interesting the GM may award the players one or more GOLD STARS.

When the group has X gold stars (perhaps one or two per player?) they may cash them in and level all their characters up.

...Thus letting them have some token achievement er... token between levels to let them feel like they are progressing between what still might as well be utterly arbitrary break points in advancement.
...which is what I said last time this came up.

It's been talked about a few times.
Phonelobster's Self Proclaimed Greatest Hits Collection : (no really, they are awesome)
User avatar
Hicks
Duke
Posts: 1318
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2008 3:36 pm
Location: On the road

Post by Hicks »

[Img]data:image/jpeg;base64,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[/img]
Nathan Explosion wrote:We have found out that you can just, you know, buy psychological validation.
Last edited by Hicks on Mon Sep 07, 2015 5:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Image
"Besides, my strong, cult like faith in the colon of the cards allows me to pull whatever I need out of my posterior!"
-Kid Radd
shadzar wrote:those training harder get more, and training less, don't get the more.
Lokathor wrote:Anything worth sniffing can't be sniffed
Stuff I've Made
User avatar
Covent
Master
Posts: 184
Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2014 5:30 pm

Post by Covent »

I have been working on the EXP system for my heartbreaker and have come to pretty much the same conclusion.

The easiest thing I have been able to come up with is half stolen from Paizo's Mythic and is just what is stated above. I know others have done it and earlier this is just where I encountered it.

Basically you have "milestones" and after so many of them all characters involved level up. How many it takes is based on the level you are at.

I am worried about douchebag MCs "Hurr Hurring" "Nope no milestone for you" but I do hate EXP based on monster kills or treasure gain.

I am also trying to make magic items more (In my opinion) fun again by removing all items that give flat bonuses and all feats that do the same. This means that there will be less treasure and therefore less EXP if I tied it to treasure.

The best solution I could come up with, and yes I know, I am not the greatest, or even necessarily a good game designer, was to insert a paragraph in the advancement section allowing players to lobby the MC for a milestone point and if the decision is unanimous get one. The next milestone has to come from the MC in my system but I am thinking of removing that.
Maxus wrote:Being wrong is something that rightly should be celebrated, because now you have a chance to correct and then you'll be better than you were five minutes ago. Perfection is a hollow shell, but perfectibility is something that is to be treasured.
Omegonthesane
Prince
Posts: 3680
Joined: Sat Sep 26, 2009 3:55 pm

Post by Omegonthesane »

Covent wrote:I am worried about douchebag MCs "Hurr Hurring" "Nope no milestone for you" but I do hate EXP based on monster kills or treasure gain.
Image
Spoiler'd because I saw the rhino dick and decided that might not be work safe.

Doesn't matter how good a set of rules you write, an asshole GM will find a way to fuck them up. You can gain something by worrying about inexperienced GMs, because they will presumably trust the rules, but in the words of Bronn, there's no cure for being a [EDITED].
Last edited by Omegonthesane on Mon Sep 07, 2015 6:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Kaelik wrote:Because powerful men get away with terrible shit, and even the public domain ones get ignored, and then, when the floodgates open, it turns out there was a goddam flood behind it.

Zak S, Zak Smith, Dndwithpornstars, Zak Sabbath, Justin Bieber, shitmuffin
User avatar
Josh_Kablack
King
Posts: 5318
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
Location: Online. duh

Re: Ek Spee

Post by Josh_Kablack »

ghost whistler wrote:Even then is it really satisfying to just increase stats all the time? That's what xp really amounts to: get points bump up stats, buy abilities, fight harder monsters.

Image
"But transportation issues are social-justice issues. The toll of bad transit policies and worse infrastructure—trains and buses that don’t run well and badly serve low-income neighborhoods, vehicular traffic that pollutes the environment and endangers the lives of cyclists and pedestrians—is borne disproportionately by black and brown communities."
User avatar
Dean
Duke
Posts: 2059
Joined: Mon May 12, 2008 3:14 am

Post by Dean »

Covent wrote:I am worried about douchebag MCs "Hurr Hurring" "Nope no milestone for you" but I do hate EXP based on monster kills or treasure gain.
Don't. I almost exclusively run and play in no leveling games now because their level of power gain feels the most satisfying and natural. If you play an 8th level character in a D&D game for 3 months you will learn the character better, get items, learn tricks, learn synergy with your party's tricks and how you can optimize as a group, get resources, get use-limited items you store, get allies, and probably even trade out a couple spells or feats to tighten up your build a bit.

By the end of 3 months of gaming your end character will be able to beat the shit out of your starting character and I've found that that rate of advancement is actually highly satisfying to players and the story alike.
DSMatticus wrote:Fuck you, fuck you, fuck you, fuck you. I am filled with an unfathomable hatred.
User avatar
Covent
Master
Posts: 184
Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2014 5:30 pm

Post by Covent »

Dean wrote:
Covent wrote:I am worried about douchebag MCs "Hurr Hurring" "Nope no milestone for you" but I do hate EXP based on monster kills or treasure gain.
Don't. I almost exclusively run and play in no leveling games now because their level of power gain feels the most satisfying and natural. If you play an 8th level character in a D&D game for 3 months you will learn the character better, get items, learn tricks, learn synergy with your party's tricks and how you can optimize as a group, get resources, get use-limited items you store, get allies, and probably even trade out a couple spells or feats to tighten up your build a bit.

By the end of 3 months of gaming your end character will be able to beat the shit out of your starting character and I've found that that rate of advancement is actually highly satisfying to players and the story alike.
Thanks and *Nod*. My last game which did what you describe along with the recent spate of Paizratta is what made me really start working on my heartbreaker. All of the players and myself did enjoy milestone based leveling more.
Maxus wrote:Being wrong is something that rightly should be celebrated, because now you have a chance to correct and then you'll be better than you were five minutes ago. Perfection is a hollow shell, but perfectibility is something that is to be treasured.
User avatar
Kaelik
ArchDemon of Rage
Posts: 14757
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by Kaelik »

Dean wrote:
Covent wrote:I am worried about douchebag MCs "Hurr Hurring" "Nope no milestone for you" but I do hate EXP based on monster kills or treasure gain.
Don't. I almost exclusively run and play in no leveling games now because their level of power gain feels the most satisfying and natural. If you play an 8th level character in a D&D game for 3 months you will learn the character better, get items, learn tricks, learn synergy with your party's tricks and how you can optimize as a group, get resources, get use-limited items you store, get allies, and probably even trade out a couple spells or feats to tighten up your build a bit.

By the end of 3 months of gaming your end character will be able to beat the shit out of your starting character and I've found that that rate of advancement is actually highly satisfying to players and the story alike.
So as a reason why we should not be terrified that the DM will be an asshole and do something we don't want him to do, you tell us that you totally do that thing that we don't want to have happen.

You might have missed like eight steps.
DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?
The U.S. isn't a democracy and if you think it is, you are a rube.

That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
ghost whistler
Journeyman
Posts: 103
Joined: Wed Aug 19, 2015 3:00 pm

Post by ghost whistler »

I don't play games like DnD so i don't play games that have that zero to hero progression. I have no object to that in principle. But i am just not sure it works. You might as well say each player gets 1xp per session and then after a suitable number of sessions (as reflected in the cost of advancements) they can gain an advancement or improvement or whatever.

I notice that the FFG star wars games also have xp, but they also have Talent Trees. I don't see the point of requiring both. This means that not only do you have to unlock prior talents to get new ones along the tree, but you have to buy them with xp. Things like that seem utterly pointless. Why not just say, after each adventure pick a new Talent (stats and skills notwithstanding).
hyzmarca
Prince
Posts: 3909
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2011 10:07 pm

Re: Ek Spee

Post by hyzmarca »

ghost whistler wrote: Even then is it really satisfying to just increase stats all the time?
Yes. Extremely so.


You see, the human brain evolved to accumulate stuff. Getting more stuff feels good. More money. More stats. More whatever. This is the same mechanism behind the rush associated with shopping, and with gambling, among other things.

Increasing your stats causes your brain to release dopamine. This effect is not unlike the dopamine release that accompanies cocaine consumption.

There's a reason why Everquest was commonly called Evercrack.

The stat increases are literally addictive.

Browser and mobile games these days are designed to take advantage of that by offering meaningless achievements as well as absurdly high stat progressions (and the ability to pay to make your stats higher faster).

Cookie Clicker and its relatives turned this into an art. Yo've got one completely meaningless number and the object of the game is to make it absurdly huge. There is no ending, the number just keeps getting bigger and bigger until your computer's memory overflows. And you can pay money to increase the rate at which it gets bigger.
Last edited by hyzmarca on Mon Sep 07, 2015 10:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Shady314
Knight
Posts: 323
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2015 4:54 am

Post by Shady314 »

For some people that is very true. Doesn't really do shit for me though.
hyzmarca
Prince
Posts: 3909
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2011 10:07 pm

Post by hyzmarca »

Shady314 wrote:For some people that is very true. Doesn't really do shit for me though.
True. Different things set off different people. Which is why there are shopping addicts, gambling addicts, and food addicts, but not very many super-addicts who are addicted to all of them at once.
K
King
Posts: 6487
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by K »

I've found that getting new abilities is pretty addictive too even if you have no plans to use them. This makes 3.x Wizards potentially amazingly fun if you toss them a few new spells every adventure even when they are not leveling or changing their number of spell slots or daily set-ups.

The failure point of just about every RPG I've played happens when I've played with all of the abilities and know how they work, and then I just quit unless there is a really compelling story.
User avatar
Chamomile
Prince
Posts: 4632
Joined: Tue May 03, 2011 10:45 am

Post by Chamomile »

K wrote:I've found that getting new abilities is pretty addictive too even if you have no plans to use them.
Agreed. I can get a rush out of racking up completely useless spells or long lists of craft or knowledge sub-skills that are essentially useless, just for the sense of my character becoming a greater wizard/crafter/scholar bit by bit, so long as I'm not asked to sacrifice real character power to make that happen.
User avatar
codeGlaze
Duke
Posts: 1083
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2011 9:38 pm

Post by codeGlaze »

K wrote:I've found that getting new abilities is pretty addictive too even if you have no plans to use them.
That's why I like the idea of using XP to buy horizontal power-ups and leave (Power-)Level as a tool to measure a character's vertical power.
Post Reply