Luckbringer Druid [D&D 3.5]

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Sacrificial Lamb
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Luckbringer Druid [D&D 3.5]

Post by Sacrificial Lamb »

Ok, some thoughts:

This is a Charisma-based Druid.

I felt that gnomes would favor this variant over a core Druid, as it seems more appropriate for them. I can't quite figure out if this class is still Tier 1 (as a core Druid is), or is rather a slightly weaker Tier 2 class. The Luckbringer Druid seems more geared toward party support than the core Druid. Furthermore, the Luckbringer Druid has no Animal Companion, and cannot spontaneously summon critters to fight for him. He can't Wildshape either. This is going to ensure that entire feat chains become unavailable to him, and I'm not sure how I feel about that.

I did want to have luck abilities that help to buff other party members, but wasn't sure how to go about it. Archivists, Bards, and Marshals are all partially geared toward buffing other party members...but I wasn't sure how I should go about that myself, so I merely gave them access to bonus luck feats instead. I'm also thinking of adding Use Magic Device as a class skill, but I'm undecided on it.

Take note that I'm currently running a 3rd-level Luckbringer Druid as a character in Paizo's Shackled City Adventure Path.

Anyway, I'll let you guys read through it, and come to your own conclusions. If I'm missing anything vitally important, please let me know.
wrote:LUCKBRINGER DRUID

The Luckbringer Druid is a derivative of the Druid. It shares the same alignment restrictions and spell progression as the Druid class, but differs in many other ways. If the level advancement table and class feature descriptions of the Luckbringer Druid lacks a class feature of the Druid class, such as wild shape, then it does not gain that class feature. Levels of the Luckbringer Druid counts as levels of a standard Druid in terms of spellcasting ability, qualification for feats and prestige classes, and the like. A character must choose upon first becoming a Druid whether to be a core Druid or Luckbringer Druid. Once the choice is made, it cannot be changed or unmade, and the character may not later multiclass into the core Druid class or one of its variants.

Alignment: Any neutral (as Druid).

Religion: As a Druid.

GAME RULE INFORMATION

Luckbringer Druids have the following statistics.

Alignment: Any neutral (as Druid).

Hit Die: d8.

Class Skills

The druid’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disable Device (Int), Escape Artist (Dex), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Jump (Str), Knowledge (nature) (Int), Listen (Wis), Open Lock (Dex), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Search (Int), Spellcraft (Int), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str), and Tumble (Dex).

Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int modifier) x 4.

Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier.

Class Features

All of the following are class features of the Luckbringer Druid.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Luckbringer Druids are proficient with all simple weapons, plus the scimitar, and one martial or exotic weapon of his choice.

Luckbringer Druids are proficient with light armor, but not with shields.

Base Save Bonuses: Fortitude (good), Reflex (poor), and Will (good).

Base Attack Bonus: Average.

Spells: A Luckbringer Druid casts divine spells, which are drawn from the Druid spell list. His alignment may restrict him from casting certain spells opposed to his moral or ethical beliefs; see Chaotic, Evil, Good, and Lawful Spells, below. A druid must choose and prepare her spells in advance (see below).

To prepare or cast a spell, the Luckbringer Druid must have a Charisma score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a Luckbringer Druid’s spell is 10 + the spell level + the Luckbringer Druid’s Charisma modifier.

Like other spellcasters, a Luckbringer Druid can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. His base daily spell allotment is given on Table: The Druid. In addition, he receives bonus spells per day if she has a high Charisma score. He does not have access to any domain spells or granted powers, as a Cleric does.

The Luckbringer Druid may prepare and cast any spell on the Druid spell list, provided that he can cast spells of that level, but she must choose which spells to prepare during her daily meditation.

Spontaneous Casting: The Luckbringer Druid has a wider range of spontaneous spells than a standard Cleric or Druid, although they are largely geared toward aiding others. The Luckbringer Druid may lose any prepared spell of equal or higher level in exchange for any of the following spells:

0-cure minor wounds, guidance, resistance; 1st-bless, cure light wounds, feather fall; 2nd-aid, cure moderate wounds, lesser restoration; 3rd-cure serious wounds, prayer, remove curse; 4th-break enchantment, cure critical wounds, restoration; 5th-atonement, mass cure light wounds, raise dead; 6th-find the path, mass cure moderate wounds, heal; 7th-greater restoration, mass cure serious wounds, resurrection; 8th-mass cure critical wounds, moment of prescience, regenerate; 9th-foresight, mass heal, true resurrection

Chaotic, Evil, Good, and Lawful Spells: A Luckbringer Druid cannot cast spells of an alignment opposed to her own or her deity’s (if she has one). Spells associated with particular alignments are indicated by the chaos, evil, good, and law descriptors in their spell descriptions.

Bonus Languages: A Luckbringer Druid’s bonus language options include Sylvan, the language of woodland creatures. This choice is in addition to the bonus languages available to the character because of her race.

A Luckbringer Druid also knows Druidic, a secret language known only to druids, which he learns upon becoming a 1st-level druid. Druidic is a free language for a druid; that is, he knows it in addition to her regular allotment of languages and it doesn’t take up a language slot. Druids are forbidden to teach this language to nondruids.

Druidic has its own alphabet.

Unbound: A Luckbringer Druid's oaths are relaxed, allowing him to wear metal armor or use metal shields with no loss of spellcasting, supernatural, or spell-like abilities.

Urban Companion (Ex): Instead of the Animal Companion, the Luckbringer Druid receives the Urban Companion class feature from Cityscape.

Luckbringing: The Luckbringer Druid has access to bonus luck feats (from the Complete Scoundrel) at 1st-level, 4th-level, 7th-level, 10th-level, 13th-level, 16th-level, and 19th-level. He has a Luck Pool, equal to the luck rerolls from his feats, plus bonus luck rerolls equal to his Charisma modifier (if any). Any luck feat with a character level prerequisite can be accessed by a Luckbringer Druid of two class levels lower than the prerequisite.

Luckbringer's Path: At 3rd-level, the Luckbringer Druid can choose one path. He can either acquire Bardic Music (as a Bard of one-third his class level), Evasion, the Track feat, Trapfinding, or Uncanny Dodge. Bardic Music acquired via Luckbringer's Path stacks with Bardic Music acquired via Bard levels. If the Luckbringer has acquired Evasion from another class, then he gains Improved Evasion instead. And if he already has Uncanny Dodge from a different class, he automatically gains Improved Uncanny Dodge instead.

Venom Immunity (Ex): At 9th level, a Luckbringer Druid gains immunity to all poisons.

A Thousand Faces (Su): At 13th level, a Luckbringer Druid gains the ability to change his appearance at will, as if using the disguise self spell, but only while in her normal form. This affects the Luckbringer Druid’s body but not her possessions. It is not an illusory effect, but a minor physical alteration of the Luckbringer Druid’s appearance, within the limits described for the spell.

Timeless Body (Ex): After attaining 15th level, a Luckbringer Druid no longer takes ability score penalties for aging and cannot be magically aged. Any penalties he may have already incurred, however, remain in place.

Bonuses still accrue, and the Luckbringer Druid still dies of old age when his time is up.
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Kaelik
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Re: Luckbringer Druid [D&D 3.5]

Post by Kaelik »

1) This sentence:
Sacrificial Lamb wrote:I can't quite figure out if this class is still Tier 1 (as a core Druid is), or is rather a slightly weaker Tier 2 class.
Tells me that you have no idea what balance even is, because you are wedded to a stupid system made by a stupid person.

2) So you give up wildshape, the best non spells class ability, and you gain some bonus luck feats that are so bad you wouldn't notice if you got them for free. I mean, if people want to intentionally nerf themselves for what amounts to playing the same character, I don't really care, but do you really have to write a class for it?

I mean, Urban Companion already exists and can be taken. Your list of replacement spells is probably objectively worse than the Druid summon list, since Druids can summon things that cast heal and restoration. And Charisma is just a worse stat to have as your casting stat.

So I don't see why any DM who actually allows custom material would deny you any of these changes if you just ask for them, since they are all nerfs, and I don't see why you wrote a class that adds literally nothing to the playspace or themes of the game at all.
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Post by Prak »

I don't even get what the concept is here. Druids are animistic nature worshipping divine casters. I suppose you could find space in that for a probability manipulator, but you don't say what this is supposed to represent other than "a druid that's charisma based and maybe more attractive to gnomes"
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.
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You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
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Re: Luckbringer Druid [D&D 3.5]

Post by Sacrificial Lamb »

Kaelik wrote:1) This sentence:
Sacrificial Lamb wrote:I can't quite figure out if this class is still Tier 1 (as a core Druid is), or is rather a slightly weaker Tier 2 class.
Tells me that you have no idea what balance even is, because you are wedded to a stupid system made by a stupid person.

2) So you give up wildshape, the best non spells class ability, and you gain some bonus luck feats that are so bad you wouldn't notice if you got them for free. I mean, if people want to intentionally nerf themselves for what amounts to playing the same character, I don't really care, but do you really have to write a class for it?

I mean, Urban Companion already exists and can be taken. Your list of replacement spells is probably objectively worse than the Druid summon list, since Druids can summon things that cast heal and restoration. And Charisma is just a worse stat to have as your casting stat.

So I don't see why any DM who actually allows custom material would deny you any of these changes if you just ask for them, since they are all nerfs, and I don't see why you wrote a class that adds literally nothing to the playspace or themes of the game at all.
Ok, I don't know why you're so fucking cranky, but it wouldn't hurt you to dial it down a notch.

I'm very tired, and not thinking clearly today....so perhaps I wasn't totally clear.

I understand what game balance is. I also fully recognize that this class is objectively weaker than a core Druid. This class is almost certainly a Tier 2 class, rather than a Tier 1. That isn't a crime against "balance" in D&D 3.5, since most 3.5 classes aren't even Tier 1 anyway.

And I sense that you're gonna give me shit about this, but my belief is that game balance is not solely predicated upon effectiveness in 1-on-1 arena combat, as D&D is intended to be a "team sport".

The Luckbringer is not intended to be a summoner or controller. He's more of a generalist Druid, with lightened oaths....and a widened skill set. He doesn't use summoned critters to enhance the party; he uses healing spells, luck, and a wider skill set to enhance the party.
Prak wrote:I don't even get what the concept is here. Druids are animistic nature worshipping divine casters. I suppose you could find space in that for a probability manipulator, but you don't say what this is supposed to represent other than "a druid that's charisma based and maybe more attractive to gnomes"
Well, the concept here is for a variant Druid who is luckier than a core Druid, more Rogue-like, less bound by dogma, and more focused on a support role for the party.

I think I've mostly achieved that, but I also feel like I might need to add a couple things.
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Post by Prak »

Right, you have a metagame concept, but no reason for it to be a druid.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.
Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.
FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
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Post by Sacrificial Lamb »

Prak wrote:Right, you have a metagame concept, but no reason for it to be a druid.
The key idea here is that this is a Druid variant.

Let me put it this way. The class allows me to access the Druid spell list, have proficiency in an exotic weapon (a maul) without using up an extra feat slot, have a wisecracking raven familiar (who can be quickly revived after death like an Animal Companion), heal more easily than a core Druid (but without spontaneous summoning), and have loosened Druidic oaths.

I'm just not interested in shapeshifting (Wildshape), or having a large conspicuous animal sidekick. Nor do I want a bunch of summoned critters at my side.

I think the character concept is sound, but I might need to tweak the mechanics a bit, particularly the luck feats.

Generally, luck feats suck. I know this. They're really only useful when you devote your character concept entirely to luck, and even then they''re not that great.

I considered replacing the luck feats with some special luck abilities that buff both the Luckbringer Druid and the party. For now, the class in its current form works for me.

The group is currently me, the DM, and one other player....although we sometimes have three additional players.

The current adventuring party is trudging through the Shackled City. I have a 3rd-level regenerating Warforged Dungeoncrasher Fighter, and a 3rd-level Human Luckbringer Druid...with the Trapfinding ability, and a Raven Urban Companion. My other friend has a 3rd-level Elven Duskblade.

When the other three players eventually return, they'll have a Barbarian, a Dragon Shaman, and a Rogue. The other players aren't here at the moment, but us two players and the DM are functioning effectively for now.
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Post by Prak »

I get that. I'm not saying you don't have a mechanical concept behind this variant, I'm saying that's all you have. You don't really want to play a druid conceptually, you want to play a probability manipulator/support class with a druid chasis. Which is fine, I'm just perplexed as to why you're calling it a druid when it seems to have no conceptual overlap with the druid. I mean, on this forum, we've talked about playing a soulknife using the ranger class and playing a fighter using sorcerer, so it's not like we're against refluffing and custom content. I just don't know why you're calling this a druid.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.
Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.
FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
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Post by AcidBlades »

I think his class is mostly based off of leprechauns.
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Post by Sacrificial Lamb »

Prak wrote:I get that. I'm not saying you don't have a mechanical concept behind this variant, I'm saying that's all you have. You don't really want to play a druid conceptually, you want to play a probability manipulator/support class with a druid chasis. Which is fine, I'm just perplexed as to why you're calling it a druid when it seems to have no conceptual overlap with the druid. I mean, on this forum, we've talked about playing a soulknife using the ranger class and playing a fighter using sorcerer, so it's not like we're against refluffing and custom content. I just don't know why you're calling this a druid.
Mmm. Well, I still partially want to play a Druid conceptually...but not completely.

Granted, it's not absolutely imperative that I call this class a Druid, but I was definitely basing the foundation of the class upon a Druid.
AcideBlades wrote:I think his class is mostly based off of leprechauns.
Actually, yes. I'm glad you noticed that, as I forgot to mention it. That was definitely my intent. Obviously, there's no fool's gold ability, or any of that stuff....but this class would probably be appropriate for Leprechauns as well.
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Prak
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Post by Prak »

See, now, if it played up a fae connection theme, it would totally make sense.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.
Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.
FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
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Post by Sacrificial Lamb »

Prak wrote:See, now, if it played up a fae connection theme, it would totally make sense.
I did strongly consider that at one point, but wasn't sure if I wanted my PC to be beholden to the fae.

Dragon #339 has a Druid fae variant known as the Sidhe Scholar, but that class felt too cerebral and dark. I wanted a class that felt a little happier, more care-free, and beholden to no one (other than Nature itself).
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Re: Luckbringer Druid [D&D 3.5]

Post by Kaelik »

Sacrificial Lamb wrote:Ok, I don't know why you're so fucking cranky, but it wouldn't hurt you to dial it down a notch.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA you are so cute.
Sacrificial Lamb wrote:This class is almost certainly a Tier 2 class, rather than a Tier 1. That isn't a crime against "balance" in D&D 3.5, since most 3.5 classes aren't even Tier 1 anyway.
What is that, I couldn't hear you over you reiterating the same stupid meaningless balance classifications I just told you are garbage.
Sacrificial Lamb wrote:And I sense that you're gonna give me shit about this, but my belief is that game balance is not solely predicated upon effectiveness in 1-on-1 arena combat, as D&D is intended to be a "team sport".
I sense that you are stupid. I sense this primarily because I criticized your use of a meaningless arbitrary classification system, and you decided that what I meant was "BUFFING ALLIES IS DUMB!"
Sacrificial Lamb wrote:The Luckbringer is not intended to be a summoner or controller. He's more of a generalist Druid, with lightened oaths....and a widened skill set. He doesn't use summoned critters to enhance the party; he uses healing spells, luck, and a wider skill set to enhance the party.
Which is totally irrelevant to being a druid, and doesn't mean anything. If you want to buff allies, you probably don't want the Druid list. If you want the druid list, you probably don't want to focus so much on buffing allies (unless those allies are animals).
Sacrificial Lamb wrote:Well, the concept here is for a variant Druid who is luckier than a core Druid, more Rogue-like, less bound by dogma, and more focused on a support role for the party.

I think I've mostly achieved that, but I also feel like I might need to add a couple things.
Sacrificial Lamb wrote:Let me put it this way. The class allows me to access the Druid spell list,

. . .

I'm just not interested in shapeshifting (Wildshape), or having a large conspicuous animal sidekick. Nor do I want a bunch of summoned critters at my side.

I think the character concept is sound, but I might need to tweak the mechanics a bit, particularly the luck feats.

Generally, luck feats suck. I know this. They're really only useful when you devote your character concept entirely to luck, and even then they''re not that great.

I considered replacing the luck feats with some special luck abilities that buff both the Luckbringer Druid and the party. For now, the class in its current form works for me.
I get that the Druid list is a good list, but there is no good reason for this to be based off the Druid class at all. 1) If you don't want to be a controller or summoner, than you don't want the standard druid list anyways, because that is just a list of control and summoning spells.

2) Even if you are absurdly devoted to the Druid spell list, even though it has tons of what you don't want, and none of what you do want (luck ally buffing). You can just use the Druid list without in any way using the rest of the class. Build your own luck class based on the druid list and luck abilities.

I mean, do you not even see that the spontaneous spells you added, many are not even on the druid list? The druid list seems to be really not what you want.
DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?
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Post by Prak »

Mechanically, Kaelik is right. You probably want something more like a specialized cleric. That a very flexible theme, too. D&D clerics can get power by just believing in a thing hard enough. So your "cleric" believes in the tenets of tree hugging, or something, and gets fae luck-fucking because of it. I'm pretty sure there's a feat that gives a companion, somewhere, and failing that, just ask your DM about Obtain Familiar, since what you want in your raven sounds more like a familiar than an animal companion (which is basically all about getting an extra combat body)
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.
Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.
FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
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Re: Luckbringer Druid [D&D 3.5]

Post by Sacrificial Lamb »

Kaelik wrote:
Sacrificial Lamb wrote:Ok, I don't know why you're so fucking cranky, but it wouldn't hurt you to dial it down a notch.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA you are so cute.
Sacrificial Lamb wrote:This class is almost certainly a Tier 2 class, rather than a Tier 1. That isn't a crime against "balance" in D&D 3.5, since most 3.5 classes aren't even Tier 1 anyway.
What is that, I couldn't hear you over you reiterating the same stupid meaningless balance classifications I just told you are garbage.
You're having a passive-aggressive conniption fit. Take it easy, cupcake.
Kaelik wrote:
Sacrificial Lamb wrote:And I sense that you're gonna give me shit about this, but my belief is that game balance is not solely predicated upon effectiveness in 1-on-1 arena combat, as D&D is intended to be a "team sport".
I sense that you are stupid. I sense this primarily because I criticized your use of a meaningless arbitrary classification system, and you decided that what I meant was "BUFFING ALLIES IS DUMB!"
Sacrificial Lamb wrote:The Luckbringer is not intended to be a summoner or controller. He's more of a generalist Druid, with lightened oaths....and a widened skill set. He doesn't use summoned critters to enhance the party; he uses healing spells, luck, and a wider skill set to enhance the party.
Which is totally irrelevant to being a druid, and doesn't mean anything. If you want to buff allies, you probably don't want the Druid list. If you want the druid list, you probably don't want to focus so much on buffing allies (unless those allies are animals).
Sacrificial Lamb wrote:Well, the concept here is for a variant Druid who is luckier than a core Druid, more Rogue-like, less bound by dogma, and more focused on a support role for the party.

I think I've mostly achieved that, but I also feel like I might need to add a couple things.
Sacrificial Lamb wrote:Let me put it this way. The class allows me to access the Druid spell list,

. . .

I'm just not interested in shapeshifting (Wildshape), or having a large conspicuous animal sidekick. Nor do I want a bunch of summoned critters at my side.

I think the character concept is sound, but I might need to tweak the mechanics a bit, particularly the luck feats.

Generally, luck feats suck. I know this. They're really only useful when you devote your character concept entirely to luck, and even then they''re not that great.

I considered replacing the luck feats with some special luck abilities that buff both the Luckbringer Druid and the party. For now, the class in its current form works for me.
I get that the Druid list is a good list, but there is no good reason for this to be based off the Druid class at all. 1) If you don't want to be a controller or summoner, than you don't want the standard druid list anyways, because that is just a list of control and summoning spells.

2) Even if you are absurdly devoted to the Druid spell list, even though it has tons of what you don't want, and none of what you do want (luck ally buffing). You can just use the Druid list without in any way using the rest of the class. Build your own luck class based on the druid list and luck abilities.

I mean, do you not even see that the spontaneous spells you added, many are not even on the druid list? The druid list seems to be really not what you want.
There's a tremendous amount of passive-aggressiveness in your post, but I'll be charitable.....and assume that you're having an epic brain fart, hence the crankiness.

The Druid list is far more than critter summoning. There's healing, divination spells, elemental magic, and more. The nature magic vibe of the spell list is a good fit for what I'm looking for. And I am well aware of the fact that many of the spontaneous spells I added are not on the Druid spell list.

That was intentional.

I'm also aware of the fact that the Druid spell list is not ideal for buffing the party, which is why I modified the spontaneous casting feature to make the Luckbringer Druid into someone slightly more suited for that role. I do want to have luck abilities that are separate from the spell list, and I would prefer it if those luck abilities were much more efficient at party buffing. The current luck feats I'm using are really only a band-aid solution, and not what I really want. However, the existing game mechanics I've written are more than adequate for now, and definitely fit the vibe of a Leprechaun or Druid variant with a more Roguish vibe. Essentially, this class is intended to be less narrow in scope than a core Druid. It gives me most of the features that I want, although I might tweak it a bit more.

Now....are you getting bent out of shape because I hit the Druid class with a moderate nerf bat, as opposed to making a weaker class into a Tier 1 class instead?

In other words, what is it that you specifically perceive is lacking in the game mechanics of this particular class?

Or perhaps are you flipping out because it's a Druid variant, rather than an entirely different class?

Or even worse, are you just sperging out completely over D&D 3.5 game balance in general?
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Post by AcidBlades »

The reason why Kaelik is getting up on your ass about Tier lists is because they don't really accurately gauge what is actually optimal or not. The classic Rogue vs. Factotum debate comes to mind, as despite being tier 3, the factotum is inferior to the Rogue in pretty much anything that would matter. Even in account of doing spell shit.

The standards that these guys have is more aligned with "can it deal with things in the appropriate CR" rather than "Is versatile and has a bunch of options."
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Post by Prak »

Dude, just ignore Kaelik's tone. It's just how he posts. He can't rant at and call idiots the people he deals with in his real life, so he indulges himself here.

Your druid variant has a bunch of cleric spells in place of Summon Nature's Ally as it's spontaneous casting. It has a cleric's aligned casting. It doesn't have the druid armor restriction, minions or shape-shift-flavored-self-buffing. It dicks around with luck feats, has a companion creature that's intended more as a stealthy scout than a second combatant, and a bard or rogue ability. If you want to call it a fae powered druid, that's cool, but you've gotten rid of almost the entirety of the druid class. It's not a variant, at this point, it's an entirely new class that you're saying is based on some mysterious aspect of an existing one (venom immunity and mask of a thousand faces are not enough to really call this a variant). You'd do much better to base it on a cleric who cares about luck rather than positive/negative energy and just take Obtain Familiar.
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Post by Sacrificial Lamb »

Prak wrote:Mechanically, Kaelik is right. You probably want something more like a specialized cleric. That a very flexible theme, too. D&D clerics can get power by just believing in a thing hard enough. So your "cleric" believes in the tenets of tree hugging, or something, and gets fae luck-fucking because of it. I'm pretty sure there's a feat that gives a companion, somewhere, and failing that, just ask your DM about Obtain Familiar, since what you want in your raven sounds more like a familiar than an animal companion (which is basically all about getting an extra combat body)
The problem is that I think I'm more enamored with the idea of being a Druid variant with lots of options, rather than a specialized Cleric variant.

I can find traps, wield a maul proficiently, spontaneously heal and buff party members adequately (via bless, aid, cure spells, and the like), have a raven familiar (Urban Companion) whom I can revive without consequence within 24 hours after death, cast Druid spells, acquire bonus luck feats, and have a more robust skill package than either a Cleric or Druid.

I just don't think that a specialist Cleric is gonna cut it.

I am, however, embarrassed to say that I made a mistake in my write-up of the class. The Luckbringer Druid was supposed to have Wild Empathy, and Resist Nature's Lure.....and I forgot to include it in the description.

I'm gonna go back to the drawing board, and look things over again. But I now realize that I do want this to remain a Druid variant. That's just where I want to go with this class.
Last edited by Sacrificial Lamb on Mon Aug 24, 2015 2:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Luckbringer Druid [D&D 3.5]

Post by Kaelik »

Prak wrote:Dude, just ignore Kaelik's tone. It's just how he posts. He can't rant at and call idiots the people he deals with in his real life, so he indulges himself here.
I'm pretty sure we have had this exact fucking conversation multiple times, and at the end of the last one, you said something about not making baseless assertions about what I am really like IRL using whatever trite stereotypes pop into your head on a daily basis. Too bad that didn't stick.
Sacrificial Lamb wrote:There's a tremendous amount of passive-aggressiveness in your post, but I'll be charitable.....and assume that you're having an epic brain fart, hence the crankiness.
That is just regular aggression. Also known as "being mean" passive aggression is not every time someone is mean to you, it is when they are mean to you without telling you why they are mean, or while pretending they are not. Since I have told you why I am "being mean" to you, IE, because you clearly demonstrated that you can't fucking read what I typed and figure out what is being said because you are an idiot, this is not passive aggression.
Sacrificial Lamb wrote:The Druid list is far more than critter summoning. There's healing, divination spells, elemental magic, and more. The nature magic vibe of the spell list is a good fit for what I'm looking for. And I am well aware of the fact that many of the spontaneous spells I added are not on the Druid spell list.
The Cleric list is also healing, divination, elemental magic, and more. In particular, the elemental magic on the Druid list is the exact battlefield control which you said you don't want.

What you should do is use the Beguiler spell system, and go through and specifically add every spell you think should be on the list, because what your are doing now is just making another Spirit Shaman class, but using the Prepared spells. And there is no particular reason that a luck nature caster should be using prepared spells anyway.
Sacrificial Lamb wrote:Now....are you getting bent out of shape because I hit the Druid class with a moderate nerf bat, as opposed to making a weaker class into a Tier 1 class instead?
I'm "getting bent out of shape" because I have repeatedly and explicitly told you multiple times that the Tier system is meaningless garbage that doesn't communicate anything useful, and you keep refusing to read that and understand it, and instead just keep spouting garbage that doesn't say anything.

I'm also, at the same time, providing you with reasons why your class could be greatly improved in both mechanics and theme by abandoning your wedding to the Druid idea, and being drastically more radical in developing the class from the ground up.
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Re: Luckbringer Druid [D&D 3.5]

Post by Prak »

Kaelik wrote:
Prak wrote:Dude, just ignore Kaelik's tone. It's just how he posts. He can't rant at and call idiots the people he deals with in his real life, so he indulges himself here.
I'm pretty sure we have had this exact fucking conversation multiple times, and at the end of the last one, you said something about not making baseless assertions about what I am really like IRL using whatever trite stereotypes pop into your head on a daily basis. Too bad that didn't stick.
I could have sworn this was actually something you said. I may be misremembering, that happens. A lot. Sorry.
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Re: Luckbringer Druid [D&D 3.5]

Post by Sacrificial Lamb »

Kaelik wrote:
Prak wrote:Dude, just ignore Kaelik's tone. It's just how he posts. He can't rant at and call idiots the people he deals with in his real life, so he indulges himself here.
I'm pretty sure we have had this exact fucking conversation multiple times, and at the end of the last one, you said something about not making baseless assertions about what I am really like IRL using whatever trite stereotypes pop into your head on a daily basis. Too bad that didn't stick.
Sacrificial Lamb wrote:There's a tremendous amount of passive-aggressiveness in your post, but I'll be charitable.....and assume that you're having an epic brain fart, hence the crankiness.
That is just regular aggression. Also known as "being mean" passive aggression is not every time someone is mean to you, it is when they are mean to you without telling you why they are mean, or while pretending they are not. Since I have told you why I am "being mean" to you, IE, because you clearly demonstrated that you can't fucking read what I typed and figure out what is being said because you are an idiot, this is not passive aggression.
Kaelik, I've lurked here before, but I'd forgotten about your particular brand of verbal diarrhea.

And I did read what you wrote, but I disagreed with you. If that hurts your delicate feelings so completely, then you can just go in a corner and cry on about it. But there's no need to sperg up my thread with your personal issues.
Kaelik wrote:
Sacrificial Lamb wrote:The Druid list is far more than critter summoning. There's healing, divination spells, elemental magic, and more. The nature magic vibe of the spell list is a good fit for what I'm looking for. And I am well aware of the fact that many of the spontaneous spells I added are not on the Druid spell list.
The Cleric list is also healing, divination, elemental magic, and more. In particular, the elemental magic on the Druid list is the exact battlefield control which you said you don't want.

What you should do is use the Beguiler spell system, and go through and specifically add every spell you think should be on the list, because what your are doing now is just making another Spirit Shaman class, but using the Prepared spells. And there is no particular reason that a luck nature caster should be using prepared spells anyway.
I do not want to be a Beguiler variant. My aptitude with spells is not based upon magical misdirection.

That's not what I fucking want.

Why is this so hard for you to understand? I didn't say that I was against battlefield control; I said that I don't want to be a spontaneous monster summoner.

I will summon monsters only as a last resort, but it's not part of my regular schtick. Honestly, what is it in this write-up that screams "Beguiler"? The Druid has nature magic, and the Beguiler has misdirection magic. I want the former, not the latter.
Kaelik wrote:
Sacrificial Lamb wrote:Now....are you getting bent out of shape because I hit the Druid class with a moderate nerf bat, as opposed to making a weaker class into a Tier 1 class instead?
I'm "getting bent out of shape" because I have repeatedly and explicitly told you multiple times that the Tier system is meaningless garbage that doesn't communicate anything useful, and you keep refusing to read that and understand it, and instead just keep spouting garbage that doesn't say anything.
The Tier system is meaningless garbage....in your opinion, which I certainly don't accept as the gospel truth. It can at least be useful as a guideline. Even a social retard like yourself must recognize that in most cases, a 12th-level Cleric will be unambiguously more powerful than a 12th-level Barbarian. The Tier system tries to explain and categorize this situation.

No, it's not a perfect system....but it does what it needs to do.
Kaelik wrote:I'm also, at the same time, providing you with reasons why your class could be greatly improved in both mechanics and theme by abandoning your wedding to the Druid idea, and being drastically more radical in developing the class from the ground up.
I still fail to see those "reasons" that you're yapping about.

I like the theme of this class. I like most of the mechanics. The only major issue I have is with the use of the luck feats, as I might replace it with a game mechanic that is more helpful towards boosting the effectiveness of other party members. Additionally, I'll put back in the Wild Empathy and Resist Nature's Lure class features (as I unintentionally left them out). And I'll add Use Magic Device into the skill list.

But otherwise, you've just been losing your shit, and turning a simple thread into yet another case of:

"Kaelik's gonna Kaelik".
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Re: Luckbringer Druid [D&D 3.5]

Post by Red_Rob »

Sacrificial Lamb wrote:
Kaelik wrote:
Sacrificial Lamb wrote:The Druid list is far more than critter summoning. There's healing, divination spells, elemental magic, and more. The nature magic vibe of the spell list is a good fit for what I'm looking for. And I am well aware of the fact that many of the spontaneous spells I added are not on the Druid spell list.
The Cleric list is also healing, divination, elemental magic, and more. In particular, the elemental magic on the Druid list is the exact battlefield control which you said you don't want.

What you should do is use the Beguiler spell system, and go through and specifically add every spell you think should be on the list, because what your are doing now is just making another Spirit Shaman class, but using the Prepared spells. And there is no particular reason that a luck nature caster should be using prepared spells anyway.
I do not want to be a Beguiler variant. My aptitude with spells is not based upon magical misdirection.

That's not what I fucking want.

Why is this so hard for you to understand? I didn't say that I was against battlefield control; I said that I don't want to be a spontaneous monster summoner.

I will summon monsters only as a last resort, but it's not part of my regular schtick. Honestly, what is it in this write-up that screams "Beguiler"? The Druid has nature magic, and the Beguiler has misdirection magic. I want the former, not the latter.
You are misunderstanding here. Kaelik didn't say make a Beguiler variant, he said use the Beguiler spell system. This means creating a short(ish) list of the spells you want this class to have at each level, then giving it a number of spells per day that it can spontaneously cast from this list. The list can be themed around whatever you want.

Although I'd like to add I don't really see the thematic connection between being a nature warrior and bringing good luck. It seems like a pretty arbitrary addition. Seems more in keeping with some kind of Cleric of a God of Fortune or a gambler Rogue.
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Re: Luckbringer Druid [D&D 3.5]

Post by Sacrificial Lamb »

Red_Rob wrote:
Sacrificial Lamb wrote:
Kaelik wrote:
The Cleric list is also healing, divination, elemental magic, and more. In particular, the elemental magic on the Druid list is the exact battlefield control which you said you don't want.

What you should do is use the Beguiler spell system, and go through and specifically add every spell you think should be on the list, because what your are doing now is just making another Spirit Shaman class, but using the Prepared spells. And there is no particular reason that a luck nature caster should be using prepared spells anyway.
I do not want to be a Beguiler variant. My aptitude with spells is not based upon magical misdirection.

That's not what I fucking want.

Why is this so hard for you to understand? I didn't say that I was against battlefield control; I said that I don't want to be a spontaneous monster summoner.

I will summon monsters only as a last resort, but it's not part of my regular schtick. Honestly, what is it in this write-up that screams "Beguiler"? The Druid has nature magic, and the Beguiler has misdirection magic. I want the former, not the latter.
You are misunderstanding here. Kaelik didn't say make a Beguiler variant, he said use the Beguiler spell system. This means creating a short(ish) list of the spells you want this class to have at each level, then giving it a number of spells per day that it can spontaneously cast from this list. The list can be themed around whatever you want.

Although I'd like to add I don't really see the thematic connection between being a nature warrior and bringing good luck. It seems like a pretty arbitrary addition. Seems more in keeping with some kind of Cleric of a God of Fortune or a gambler Rogue.
Kaelik was rabid, but not particularly clear.

I would say that the Druid spell list is largely what I want already. There are only a few exceptions to that list, which I've added into the Spontaneous Casting section.

Granted, I wouldn't be totally opposed to granting this class the Beguiler spell progression in the form of "Spells per Day", but that would probably cement this class as being "not a Druid variant". I'm just not sure I want to give this class a totally custom spell list, particularly tailored to this class....when what I've already written largely fits my needs.

But I'll look it over again.
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Re: Luckbringer Druid [D&D 3.5]

Post by Kaelik »

Sacrificial Lamb wrote:And I did read what you wrote, but I disagreed with you.
Disagreement requires understanding. You have amply demonstrated that you failed to understand even a single thing I have said.
Sacrificial Lamb wrote:I do not want to be a Beguiler variant. My aptitude with spells is not based upon magical misdirection.
Oh look, you still can't read.
Sacrificial Lamb wrote:The Tier system is meaningless garbage....in your opinion, which I certainly don't accept as the gospel truth. It can at least be useful as a guideline. Even a social retard like yourself must recognize that in most cases, a 12th-level Cleric will be unambiguously more powerful than a 12th-level Barbarian. The Tier system tries to explain and categorize this situation.
You say this now, but every post prior to this one perfectly demonstrates that you had no idea what I was saying. So since you will now switch seamlessly from having no idea what I was saying, to making a patently stupid defense and pretending you totally understood the whole time, I will file you under Zak C-, and move on with my life, since you are not actually trying to improve your shitty class at all, and you just want people to tell you how cool your "Druid Variant" is. Spoiler alert, it isn't cool. It is pretty shitty, mostly because you are too lazy to do any actual work.
Sacrificial Lamb wrote:"Kaelik's gonna Kaelik".
That doesn't mean what you think it does.
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Re: Luckbringer Druid [D&D 3.5]

Post by Sacrificial Lamb »

Kaelik wrote:
Sacrificial Lamb wrote:And I did read what you wrote, but I disagreed with you.
Disagreement requires understanding. You have amply demonstrated that you failed to understand even a single thing I have said.
Sacrificial Lamb wrote:I do not want to be a Beguiler variant. My aptitude with spells is not based upon magical misdirection.
Oh look, you still can't read.
Sacrificial Lamb wrote:The Tier system is meaningless garbage....in your opinion, which I certainly don't accept as the gospel truth. It can at least be useful as a guideline. Even a social retard like yourself must recognize that in most cases, a 12th-level Cleric will be unambiguously more powerful than a 12th-level Barbarian. The Tier system tries to explain and categorize this situation.
You say this now, but every post prior to this one perfectly demonstrates that you had no idea what I was saying. So since you will now switch seamlessly from having no idea what I was saying, to making a patently stupid defense and pretending you totally understood the whole time, I will file you under Zak C-, and move on with my life, since you are not actually trying to improve your shitty class at all, and you just want people to tell you how cool your "Druid Variant" is. Spoiler alert, it isn't cool. It is pretty shitty, mostly because you are too lazy to do any actual work.
Sacrificial Lamb wrote:"Kaelik's gonna Kaelik".
That doesn't mean what you think it does.
You're kidding, right?

You haven't said anything of real practical use. Nothing you've said here has any valuable content whatsoever.

You went fully apeshit when I made a brief offhand comment on how the Luckbringer Druid might fit into the class Tier system, which tons of people use as a guideline for D&D 3.5. I understand that you see the class Tier system as a "meaningless arbitrary classification system", but I and many other people find that this system has some practical use in ranking the basic utility of the various character classes out there.

And if you don't like that, tough shit.

Additionally, even if my list of replacement spells is "objectively worse than the Druid summon list", it doesn't change the fact that I specifically said that I want a variant Druid who does not spontaneously summon. Other Druid variants that do not spontaneously summon exist, and yet remain viable concepts for a Druid. I fully understand that this change will somewhat decrease the power level of the class....

....and I don't give a fuck.

Understand?

The class doesn't need to be Tier 1 to contribute to the needs of the adventuring party.

There are also Druid variants without Wildshape, and yet they still remain viable concepts for an adventuring Druid....no matter how much you impotently rage about it.

I'm running this class right fucking now, and it's been quite effective in boosting the effectiveness of the adventuring party....so your statements simply have no bearing on actual game play.

Furthermore, the elemental magic on the Druid list is exactly the type of battlefield control that I want. I simply don't want to make a habit of controlling monsters more than necessary (i.e. emergencies).

Understand?

Now....can you keep it in your pants, or are you too stubborn to admit that you're simply wrong?
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Post by Sacrificial Lamb »

Prak wrote:Dude, just ignore Kaelik's tone. It's just how he posts. He can't rant at and call idiots the people he deals with in his real life, so he indulges himself here.
That boy has a cosmically huge amount of pent-up anger. I don't know what's getting him so riled up, and I don't really care. But if he insists on behaving like an angry social retard, then I will call him on it.
Prak wrote:Your druid variant has a bunch of cleric spells in place of Summon Nature's Ally as it's spontaneous casting. It has a cleric's aligned casting.
The only aligned casting spell for the Spontaneous Casting class feature is Aid, and that also happens to be a spell from the Luck domain....so I believe that it's thematically appropriate.
Prak wrote:It doesn't have the druid armor restriction, minions or shape-shift-flavored-self-buffing. It dicks around with luck feats, has a companion creature that's intended more as a stealthy scout than a second combatant, and a bard or rogue ability. If you want to call it a fae powered druid, that's cool, but you've gotten rid of almost the entirety of the druid class. It's not a variant, at this point, it's an entirely new class that you're saying is based on some mysterious aspect of an existing one (venom immunity and mask of a thousand faces are not enough to really call this a variant). You'd do much better to base it on a cleric who cares about luck rather than positive/negative energy and just take Obtain Familiar.
This might or might not be a fey-powered Druid, but I don't want the class to be one that can have its power revoked by the fey. I also want it to derive power from nature itself.

And I don't see how it's an entirely new class.

It has the Druid spell list, Druid spell progression, proficiency in every weapon a Druid has (and more), all the class skills a Druid has (and more), Wild Empathy (which I forgot to include in the description), Bonus Languages (as a Druid), Urban Companion (which Druids have the option of receiving), Woodland Stride, Trackless Step, and Resist Nature's Lure (which I forgot to include in the description), as well as Venom Immunity, A Thousand Faces, and Timeless Body.

I forgot to include many of the Druid class features in the class description simply due to mental fatigue. I've been tired, so I forgot to include it. I will amend that, so that it can be more properly critiqued. In that regard, the fault is fine.

But that still doesn't change the fact that Kaelik went into full retard mode in this thread.
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