Witcher RPG announced

[Smirnoffico]

When did he change the ending?

His story, which the game trilogy is based on.

What was changed? I can't find anything about that on Wikipedia, I recall Garalt being alive at the end of the books so that's not it. Is it about Ciri being a character in the third game? I haven't played.

I may be mistaken as I'm not really that big of a fan of the book (I actually played the game before reading) and find the whole series an example of teenage fantasy, so wasn't really hot about it. As far as I remember, the then-last book ends with Geralt being King Arthured for no reason, Yennifer being in the same state and Ciri sending them both away. Then there was a short story, written by Sapkowski, about Geralt and Yennifer arriving at Avalon, marrying there at last and living happily ever after. I may be wrong about the author.

[karpik777]

I may be mistaken as I'm not really that big of a fan of the book (I actually played the game before reading) and find the whole series an example of teenage fantasy, so wasn't really hot about it. As far as I remember, the then-last book ends with Geralt being King Arthured for no reason, Yennifer being in the same state and Ciri sending them both away. Then there was a short story, written by Sapkowski, about Geralt and Yennifer arriving at Avalon, marrying there at last and living happily ever after. I may be wrong about the author.

I'm not sure if we're thinking about the same story, but there was one describing preparations for the wedding of Yen and Geralt. While it was described by the publisher as an "alternative ending" to the saga, Sapkowski himself always said it was non-canon. I can't remember enough details to say whether it is the one you're thinking of, but if it isn't, it most likely was written by someone else.

[Smirnoffico]

I'm not sure if we're thinking about the same story, but there was one describing preparations for the wedding of Yen and Geralt. While it was described by the publisher as an "alternative ending" to the saga, Sapkowski himself always said it was non-canon. I can't remember enough details to say whether it is the one you're thinking of, but if it isn't, it most likely was written by someone else.

That's the one, yeah. At least I remember the wedding thing

[ruemere]

I'm not sure if we're thinking about the same story, but there was one describing preparations for the wedding of Yen and Geralt. While it was described by the publisher as an "alternative ending" to the saga, Sapkowski himself always said it was non-canon. I can't remember enough details to say whether it is the one you're thinking of, but if it isn't, it most likely was written by someone else.

That's the one, yeah. At least I remember the wedding thing

Nah, it was just a joke story. It was not intended to be canon.

Anyway, here is the timeline (http://witcher.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline) that lists events from the novels and games. It includes also the sighting of Geralt...

... after his apparent death. The sighting is as per Season of Storms novel, the most recent work by Sapkowski.

Regarding Sapkowski's opinion on adaptations, here is Sapkowski telling about his exchange with Harry Harrison (https://youtu.be/k8Qjo0pB75E?t=1405 - it's in Polish, so a loose transcript follows):
HH: Have you seen Soylent Green? It's based on my Make Room, Make Room novel...
AS: Yep.
HH: How did you find the adaptation?
AS: Do dupy. (it's a short and sweet Polish saying, that means that the referenced item has the worth of a toilet paper - it's good enough only for ass wiping)
HH: Precisely (and launches in a long lamentation...)
AS: Hey, hey, have you returned the money they paid you for the adaptation?
HH: No.
AS: To siedz cicho (Polish, kinder version of "shut up", but less kind then "be quiet").

Regards,
Ruemere

[K]

If this RPG version of the Witcher does not have a mini-game involving banging your way through every sorceress, scullery maid, and name-level female NPC you meet, I will be disappointed.

[OgreBattle]

So how does the witcher's take on magic feel? Is it significantly different from D&D?

[Blicero]

@Ogre

Geralt can use a lot of weak magic effects via a magic points system that recharges quickly. He can shoot fire from his hands, shield himself from attacks, influence peoeple's minds, etc. He has an actual sorceress friend whose powers seem to be more "whatever the plot demands", up to and including teleportation and creating large arrow-blocking barriers. For both of them, using a lot of magic makes you tired and bad at fighting. The first game has a sorcerer main villain who can do a more standard array of magical effects.

So it's closer D&D than it is to Tolkien. But it is not exactly the same.

[ruemere]

So how does the witcher's take on magic feel? Is it significantly different from D&D?

Outside of combat, spells appear to be limited by magic science (many mages simply do research), laws of magic association and time.

During combat, Geralt uses simple effects and fights.
The mages, if they are prepared, can cast spells that allow them to bypass human limitations or invoke remote effects. They can go down really fast, if someone finds a hole in their defenses.

If anything, it looked Arcana Evolved to me (quick action spells, templated spells). One Vilgefortz (a wizard genius) bested Geralt (one of the best witchers) in melee. A buffed wizard can be faster and stronger, but their buffs are highly specific. If you have the advantage of numbers or surprise, they are going to die. Comparing them to Taken, they may be better at highly specialized effects, but that's all.

[TheFlatline]

I will say that I like the idea of people having access to "signs" and simple magical effects to combine with whatever else they do. A light dip if you will, as opposed to a serious devotion to magic.

[Longes]

I will say that I like the idea of people having access to "signs" and simple magical effects to combine with whatever else they do. A light dip if you will, as opposed to a serious devotion to magic.

Mind you, only Witchers have those, and Geralt is the best with them because he's also a latent mage.

[TheFlatline]

I will say that I like the idea of people having access to "signs" and simple magical effects to combine with whatever else they do. A light dip if you will, as opposed to a serious devotion to magic.

Mind you, only Witchers have those, and Geralt is the best with them because he's also a latent mage.

Wow I read the first book and played all the games and that didn't occur to me. In fact I was pretty sure that in Witcher 1 RPG they stated that the powers came from signs that anyone could learn from.

Kind of makes sense but it also makes it even more painfully obvious that Geralt is a total Mary Sue.

[Blicero]

Would an Ars Magica style approach work best for a Witcher RPG? From having played the first two games, I do not know if the setting and lore could justify having three witchers and two sorceresses constantly hanging around and fighting crime together long enough for a campaign to happen. And, unless you are making a storygame, one player getting Geralt, one player getting Triss, and one player getting Dandelion does not a compelling game make. But if one player gets Geralt, one player gets Triss, one player gets Siegfried and a couple of Flaming Rose dudes, and one player gets Dandelion and a network of contacts and spies, that seems like it could be fun.

edit: An alternative would be if the setting has some "Old Republic" type era where it is valid to have a bunch of witchers adventuring together. But I don't know enough about the books to say if that is actually plausible.

[Longes]

I will say that I like the idea of people having access to "signs" and simple magical effects to combine with whatever else they do. A light dip if you will, as opposed to a serious devotion to magic.

Mind you, only Witchers have those, and Geralt is the best with them because he's also a latent mage.

Wow I read the first book and played all the games and that didn't occur to me. In fact I was pretty sure that in Witcher 1 RPG they stated that the powers came from signs that anyone could learn from.

Kind of makes sense but it also makes it even more painfully obvious that Geralt is a total Mary Sue.

Witchers can use Signs because they all have minor magic abilities as a result of their magically-induced mutations. Geralt is just better than everyone else because he already had magical abilities, and at one point is offered to go and become a full mage.

Also Witchers are so bad at teaching people that their order is dying, despite them being some of the most educated people in the world. By Witcher 3 order of the wolf is literally down to four members, out of which only Vesemir has experience in mutating new Witchers, and Vesemir is pushing 200.

[TheFlatline]

Mind you, only Witchers have those, and Geralt is the best with them because he's also a latent mage.

Wow I read the first book and played all the games and that didn't occur to me. In fact I was pretty sure that in Witcher 1 RPG they stated that the powers came from signs that anyone could learn from.

Kind of makes sense but it also makes it even more painfully obvious that Geralt is a total Mary Sue.

Witchers can use Signs because they all have minor magic abilities as a result of their magically-induced mutations. Geralt is just better than everyone else because he already had magical abilities, and at one point is offered to go and become a full mage.

Also Witchers are so bad at teaching people that their order is dying, despite them being some of the most educated people in the world. By Witcher 3 order of the wolf is literally down to four members, out of which only Vesemir has experience in mutating new Witchers, and Vesemir is pushing 200.

Interesting. It's been a long time since I read The Last Wish and I didn't really get into Blood of Elves for real world reasons. I got that witchers were going away. The trial of grasses is lethal enough that the investment-to-payoff ratio is pretty fucked up.

New rule: You have to be plug ugly to be a witcher. Otherwise you're like Geralt and too busy boning everything in existence.

[Smirnoffico]

Kind of makes sense but it also makes it even more painfully obvious that Geralt is a total Mary Sue.

He's Marty. Mary is the love of his life. And, of course, their adopted (so totally fic-elegible) daughter Mary-Marty Sue.

[karpik777]

Also Witchers are so bad at teaching people that their order is dying, despite them being some of the most educated people in the world. By Witcher 3 order of the wolf is literally down to four members, out of which only Vesemir has experience in mutating new Witchers, and Vesemir is pushing 200.

Witchers don't really have a stable source of new recruits, most people won't survive the Trials (the Trial of Grass alone kills 60-70%) and the vast majority of the wolf school witchers were slain in the attack that mostly destroyed Kaer Morhen (which happened during Vesemir's life - so it's not ancient history).

Mind you, only Witchers have those, and Geralt is the best with them because he's also a latent mage.

As was said, anyone with some magical potential could use those - Triss told Lambert she could strengthen Aard with a spell to make logs from the fireplace fly through the chimney, and Yennefer flat out calls signs primitive spells.

Kind of makes sense but it also makes it even more painfully obvious that Geralt is a total Mary Sue.

Don't forget he was the only one to survive some kind of special experiment the Withchers did after his Trial of Grass.

[Bertie Wooster]

Interesting. It's been a long time since I read The Last Wish and I didn't really get into Blood of Elves for real world reasons. I got that witchers were going away. The trial of grasses is lethal enough that the investment-to-payoff ratio is pretty fucked up.

Sorry, but I have a question: do they really called the transformation trial of the witchers "trial of grasses"/"trial of grass" in english translation?

[Longes]

Interesting. It's been a long time since I read The Last Wish and I didn't really get into Blood of Elves for real world reasons. I got that witchers were going away. The trial of grasses is lethal enough that the investment-to-payoff ratio is pretty fucked up.

Sorry, but I have a question: do they really called the transformation trial of the witchers "trial of grasses"/"trial of grass" in english translation?

Is that unusual? In Russian it's "испытание травами (Трансмутация)", meaning "trial by grasses (Transmutation)"

[Bertie Wooster]

Is that unusual? In Russian it's "испытание травами (Трансмутация)", meaning "trial by grasses (Transmutation)"

Maybe I'm wrong but "grass" is generic term for casual use. Grass is something which covers your lawn or unremarkable field.

In russian it indeed is "испытание травами" and I do not know polish language but for me "trial by herbs" make far more sense as translation. Herbs is something you use in alchemy.

[TheFlatline]

Is that unusual? In Russian it's "испытание травами (Трансмутация)", meaning "trial by grasses (Transmutation)"

Maybe I'm wrong but "grass" is generic term for casual use. Grass is something which covers your lawn or unremarkable field.

In russian it indeed is "испытание травами" and I do not know polish language but for me "trial by herbs" make far more sense as translation. Herbs is something you use in alchemy.

Well considering they call the entire series in English "Witcher" when witchers have nothing to do with witches I'm not surprised that the original translations were pretty bad.

I guess the polish translates closer to like "hexers" or something like that, which is far more indicitive of their dealing with curses and monsters than witches.

[karpik777]

In russian it indeed is "испытание травами" and I do not know polish language but for me "trial by herbs" make far more sense as translation. Herbs is something you use in alchemy.

The original, Polish version was "Proba Traw", which translates into "Trial by/of Grass" - so it is a case of the translator being faithful to the source material. We don't know the details, but Witchers call many - if not most - of their special herbs "grasses", so the name makes sense.

Well considering they call the entire series in English "Witcher" when witchers have nothing to do with witches I'm not surprised that the original translations were pretty bad.

Seeing how the original name is Wiedzmin, and Wiedzma means witch, witcher certainly can feel like a choice made to mimic that.

[Bertie Wooster]

The original, Polish version was "Proba Traw", which translates into "Trial by/of Grass" - so it is a case of the translator being faithful to the source material. We don't know the details, but Witchers call many - if not most - of their special herbs "grasses", so the name makes sense.

I do not know polish but sometimes polish is very similar to russian. And this is apparently the case. In russian "trava" can be used as generic term for grass or as medical/alchemical ingredient. But I never encountered the use of word "grass" in similar context in english. English have two different words for that as far as I can tell. And this is the reason why I was surprised by so direct translation.

[karpik777]

I do not know polish but sometimes polish is very similar to russian. And this is apparently the case. In russian "trava" can be used as generic term for grass or as medical/alchemical ingredient. But I never encountered the use of word "grass" in similar context in english. English have two different words for that as far as I can tell. And this is the reason why I was surprised by so direct translation.

Well, in Polish "trawa" is generally used for grass and "ziolo" for stuff like alchemical ingredients*. The Witcher doesn't adhere to that, so I'd actually say it makes sense to keep that in the english translations.

*"fun fact": both can be used when speaking about marijuana

[Longes]

Well considering they call the entire series in English "Witcher" when witchers have nothing to do with witches I'm not surprised that the original translations were pretty bad.

Seeing how the original name is Wiedzmin, and Wiedzma means witch, witcher certainly can feel like a choice made to mimic that.

It actually isn't. In slavic mythology "Witcher" (Wiedźmiak, Ведьмак, Відьмак, etc.) is a kind of born sorcerer. His powers come from having a demonic spirit, in addition to human soul. Witchers overwatch the dark forces in their area, and make sure they fullfil their evil quotas, but also make sure they don't go overboard. They are kind of like Satan's middle management.

[karpik777]

It actually isn't. In slavic mythology "Witcher" (Wiedźmiak, Ведьмак, Відьмак, etc.) is a kind of born sorcerer. His powers come from having a demonic spirit, in addition to human soul. Witchers overwatch the dark forces in their area, and make sure they fullfil their evil quotas, but also make sure they don't go overboard. They are kind of like Satan's middle management.

While this is true, wouldn't the origin of both names be very similiar? Wiedźmiak/Wiedźma, Ведьмак/Ведьма Відьмак/Відьма etc certainly feels like more than just a coincidence - though I'm not a linguistic expert...