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ToFIE: the crappy RPGMaker game
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Koumei
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 3:27 am    Post subject: ToFIE: the crappy RPGMaker game Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

LATEST BUILD

For the time being, I'm going to work within my means. My PC can't really handle Unity, and I don't have the C# knowledge for it anyway. At some point when I have a new machine I'll look into GameFactory or similar things, but the free one I tried has been rather annoying on this PC. So it's RPGMaker for now. Whatevs.

Temple of Fiscally Irresponsible Elves. Yes, that game. I'm going to try to make something as a 100% free game, so people here can get a chuckle from it, based on Frank's rather cool idea. Some overall points to it:

  • You don't have GP/Gil/Zenny. Even gold bars are inventory items, and everyone uses a crafting or barter economy.
  • Getting into combat will be like Mugen Souls/Hyperdimension Neptunia/Grandia, where you see encounters roaming about the map and can choose to avoid them, as opposed to Final Fantasy A FIGHT APPEARS! Combat will play out like standard jRPG format though.
  • Each character can choose their class (from a list of three, each different per character) at the start, and can "prestige class" at a certain point.
  • It's a relatively small world, but with frequent changes, and your various actions and inaction can result in areas growing or falling. Just ignoring one faction entirely could result in them starving or waging war on someone else.
  • An attempt at making classes feel different. I can't do a full-on Next Edition style thing exactly, but similar things can be managed by playing with durations, buffs that cancel other buffs, "use Limit Break to restore MP" and so on.
  • Applying status effects will be a bigger deal, often more important than "just cast Omnicide!"


So are enough people interested to justify making it?
Would people want updates on "So currently ____ is implemented", or even "Okay, here's a Demo release, it covers up to _____"?

Also, if it goes ahead, we need to decide on the four playable characters. Technically there could be others added, but that involves swapping people in and out of the party, and also involves adding another three classes (more for prestige classes) and a bunch of other story and character development options for each character.

One of them is locked in as the Yuan-ti, because I think they're awesome and I am executive director of my own projects.
Class options for the Yuan-ti: Wizard (caster), Kensai (warrior), Ninja (adventurer). This is the stranger who is trying to bring a unique perspective.

The others should probably be taken from the races most represented by the failing societies:
-Halfling: ??? (caster), Swashbuckler (warrior), Bard (adventurer)
-Elf: Druid (caster), ??? (warrior), Rogue (adventurer)
-Drow: Warlock (caster), Monk (warrior), Assassin (adventurer)
-Orc: Cleric (caster), Berserker (warrior), Ranger (adventurer)
-Dwarf: Runesmith (caster), Paladin (warrior), ??? (adventurer) nope
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Maxus
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 3:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I am highly interested and wish to know more.

I suppose if you wanted to be stereotypical, you could do Gadgeteer for the Dwarf Adventurer, Soulborn or similar gishy class for the Elf Warrior, and Favored Soul of XXXX for the halfling casters.

What else for other PCs? Any backstory-iffic notes I should keep in mind?
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Koumei
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 4:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

No real character development or backstory has been thought of yet. They would largely be people who want to find a solution to the problems of their society though, so:

-Drow: has turned to adventuring and Dirty Deeds (Done Dirt Cheap) for the meantime and is looking for the next big thing - specifically, looking for a new niche to be exploited on a large scale, to absorb all the unemployment. Likely to be pulled into factional politics of "Decide who needs assassinating", bringing the rest of the party along. Will be female, because sexy drow ladies > Drizzt.
-Dwarf: isn't a miner, and thus wants to find a source of income (to start with, would make do for "finding my own gold supply so I can join the 1%", but will likely develop towards "let's see if we can break the mining monopoly"). I hate the dwarf stereotype, so they'd probably be teetotal, or a (beardless) woman or something.
-Elf: is after some form of solid bargaining chip that can't just be magicked into existence (or alternatively, is after the means to magic a solid thing into existence). Might become interested in the prospect of stealing and burning currency to deflate it (or stealing it and creating the illusion of burning it so as to achieve the same effect while remaining really rich for as long as it takes for people to catch on). Probably a wild, rugged man of the wild.
-Halfling: has left because of the whole land subdivision thing. Could be swayed to evil ("We need to wage war and thus own more land!" or "We need to thin our numbers with a plague!"), or could end up leading a refugee thing where half the population leave to join other economies, or something else entirely. A bitter pessimist.
-Orc: a jaded former hero who sees the end of their kind, or at least the end of peace for their kind, and a return to the days of raiding and warfare, if the problems of the other people cannot be solved. He understands theirs is an external problem, and that income will return if everyone else gets their economy running again. So, a busybody who pushes you to go deal with the issues of everyone else.
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Leress
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I would be interested in this game.
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maglag
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Shut up and take my money attention!

Definetely interested. Including hearing of "today I implemented this" and "Here's an incomplete demo for download".

Anyway for a project of this scope, I would advice first putting everything in paper (numbers, classes, story branches, NPCs), only after that is done getting to coding.

That way even if you run out of steam midway during coding, we'll still have a nice adventure module that could probably be run with regular rules.
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nockermensch
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

YES, your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
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Whipstitch
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Don't bother having a dwarf if they just make you grumpy enough to do unfunny genre subversion instead of other shit.

As far as the halfling goes if he's going to be a bitter pessimist you could make his caster class "oracle" with the joke being that he's a mentalist/grifter and that divining the future doesn't actually work in your setting.
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Koumei
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2015 7:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Fair enough. So that knocks one option out, if one more is ruled out, we have a party of four. Or people could start voting things in or whatever. Anyway, it will start with the Yuan-ti, who will have a name and stuff, wandering into one of the general areas. They'll be disappointed, because they were hoping to come here and sell silks and make loads of cash and become a dominant merchant force. Only to realise that if you want to rule the economy, you basically need an economy to run. And then will be set upon by poor people who want goods they can trade for food.

The reason for that is to give some basic character motivation and then get people interested with a fight, albeit an easy one. So people can actually make some choices and not sit through ten screens of dialogue at the start.

Whichever area it is they start in, that's going to be the first spot for wandering around and talking to people and getting an idea what's going on. They'll also be forced to meet the first recruit there, who joins the team. They won't be stuck there until they fix things or anything, the game is going to be fairly free-roaming.

The basic overworld map will be really simple, and basically a graphical "where do you want to go?" menu. So it's fast to navigate but doesn't have the problems of putting lists of options in RPGmaker. From there you can enter area chunks, which will then look more like the traditional thing where there's a fair bit of wandering to get between areas and where a town takes up one tile before you enter it.

A benefit of having wandering encounters actually be on-screen of course is that you can eliminate them if they no longer become relevant - so if you get the dwarf economy back on its feet, you stop running into dwarf bandits. If a populace gets wiped out, you stop running into them but start running into undead.

A tricky thing will be scaling the levels and all that. RPGMaker is designed with Final Fantasy in mind, where it goes from 1 to 99. You totally can make the maximum level 20, but you need to be careful with how you set the custom stat progressions, otherwise you just don't get much of a difference between level 1 hit points and level 20 hit points. So either I can carefully set that out, or I can just say "It's 1-99, deal with it".
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Prak
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2015 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I'd be interested in basically any of your PHB rewrite races. Neko-oni could be fun.
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Koumei
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2015 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Nah, with the exception of the visiting busybody Yuan-ti, they're all going to be the races used in Frank's Temple of Fiscally Irresponsible Elves adventure.
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Ikeren
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2015 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Did that last for long? I remember reading it for a bit, but then I went traveling.
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Avoraciopoctules
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 2:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Mister Cavern stopped posting when we settled on a business plan. The game was fun while it lasted, though!

I love shitty RPGMaker games, and I am totally interested in this concept. I might be willing to contribute sprites if that would be helpful, I've been working on and off on an arabic fantasy RPG in the same engine.
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Chamomile
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 2:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I would recommend against opening the game with beating the tar out of poor people. Just dump people in an opening village and split up necessary expository text amongst the local NPCs. Let players piece it together on their own instead of throwing it at them all at once. If the worldbuilding doesn't engage them, they don't want to play a game about fiscally irresponsible elves anyway.
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Koumei
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 5:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I guess "wandering and talking to people" (arguably the main part of an RPG) is enough gameplay that people won't get bored at the start. My problem with jRPGs has generally been the cutscenes and text dumps at the start where the most interaction you have is pressing X to move to the next line of text.

It is my intent that in any given place, you'll only find out what the problem is through talking to people and looking around. You won't get "This is Elfland, which has a history of ... recently plagued by ... the people are currently ... the ruler ... in their ears."

But combat is a necessary thing because D&D, and that's going to boil down to two major types:
*Dungeoncrawling, because there are always places you can go smash undead and find loot. This is how you get magic items, and can also be decent for getting trade/crafting goods. Some of them might have partial solutions to varying problems - if a dragon hoard contains a megaton of gold, chunks of that can be given to dwarfs to break the mining monopoly for a while.
*Being set upon by bandits. Yes, it means you're killing poor people. Look, in times of poverty, people will turn to crime as a way of surviving, and I don't condemn them for this: they're doing what is necessary to survive. By the same token, any given person is totally justified in defending themselves against bandits.
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Prak
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 6:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Avoraciopoctules wrote:
Mister Cavern stopped posting when we settled on a business plan. The game was fun while it lasted, though!

Frank understandably has a busy life. It'd have been nice if we'd gotten to play longer, but saving lives does take precedence.
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FrankTrollman wrote:
In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
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maglag
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Koumei wrote:

*Being set upon by bandits. Yes, it means you're killing poor people. Look, in times of poverty, people will turn to crime as a way of surviving, and I don't condemn them for this: they're doing what is necessary to survive. By the same token, any given person is totally justified in defending themselves against bandits.


I would say the number of bandits actually goes up in times of richness. Because for bandit to be a viable life choice it means that other people need to have something worth stealing. It doesn't really pay off to steal other poor people, unless you're a megacorp that can steal from a lot of poor people simultaneously, but then you're a respectable business and not a bandit. The golden age of piracy water bandits happened when there was a crapload of gold and silver moving around in the seas.

Similarly, common crimes like drug dealing and weapon smuggling can only happen when people have money to burn away. If people are struggling to get food in the area, criminals will move to greener, richer pastures. If there were some neighbour countries making fat profits and the bandits would hit-and-run there, it would make a lot more sense. Like the modern somalia pirates who live in a poor country but make a living out of stealing the boats of rich countries passing by.

But anyway bandits are always around and a classic fantasy enemy so they should be included. Just pointing out it's kinda self-contradictory to claim "stealing is a viable life choice when there's little worth stealing".


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Koumei
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

That's the thing, it's not like suddenly nobody has anything: there are richer people with stuff to take. For the dwarfs, there are miners who have all the gold. Kind of like Australia. For the orcs, it's just anyone who happened to luck out and make a transaction for goods at the right time. For elves, it's probably those from "always had lots of stuff" aristocracy or those who trade with outsiders. For halflings, it's "outsiders". For drow, it's the higher-ups of guilds and such, who amassed enough wealth that they're insulated from the mass unemployment. Kind of like Australia.

Or to put it another way: Somalia saw a rise in piracy when poverty hit them the hardest, thanks to Western corporations fucking the coast up for fishing and such. That wouldn't be the case were it not necessary, and they just make sure to pick the targets of "People from abroad, who do have money".
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Whipstitch
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

It's definitely not contradictory--the whole point of the original ToFIE concept is playing around with situations where economics go awry in ways more complex than a one off bad crop yield. The tragedy isn't that there is no wealth, but that societies are constraining themselves in some way.
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Koumei
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

So let's look at classes for the Yuan-ti. First, the game has the following stats: HP, MP, Attack (damage), Defence (reduces damage), Magic Attack, Magic Defence, Agility (dodge change, initiative order), Luck (dodge change, criticals). You also have Tech Points (Limit Break). It goes from 0 to 100 no matter what, and by default it starts at zero and resets every fight.

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As for weapon classes:
-Axes: often two-handed. They slow you a little, but hit for massive damage. Generally Slashing damage.
-Bludgeoning: clubs, maces, flails, warhammers, folding chairs. Pretty standard, kind of slowing, they all do Bludgeoning damage, against which most Undead and Constructs will be vulnerable.
-Bows: better damage than crossbows, but not so good in other respects, usually. Piercing damage.
-Crossbows: fast firing, good crit chance, hey they're not shit! Damage isn't so great. Piercing damage.
-Daggers: they're kind of shitty but boost your Initiative a bit and can be dual-wielded by characters of the right type. Slashing or Piercing, unless you get a special Poison Dagger or whatever.
-Exotic: tiger claws, nunchaku, kusari-gama, kama and such. They often boost your Agility and provide a small chance of applying status effects on regular attacks. Could be any crazy damage type.
-Magic: staves and wands. They boost your Magic Attack, and some of them apply elemental damage to your attacks or whatever.
-Polearms: lower damage, almost always two-handed, and they typically improve your defence (spear, halberd) or initiative (javelin). Usually Slashing or Piercing damage.
-Swords: your standard weapon. Decent damage, and some of them also boost Defence or Crit% or whatever. There are one and two handed versions. Slashing damage most of the time.
-Thrown: shuriken, hand axes, darts and all that. Very fast, good crit chance, but low damage. Can be dual-wielded. Flasks would probably be Item Menu consumables. Usually Piercing, but there are some Slashing or Bludgeoning types.

Armour is Cloth (the basic variety is really shitty), Light (leather and such - no Agility penalty, Defence boost isn't massive), Medium (chain/scale/ring mail. Small Agility penalty, good Defence boost) and Heavy (full plate and such. Makes you slow but gives a big Defence boost. Even the normal kind is expensive).

So in the Sword category, for instance, you'll basically have:
-Basic: Long Sword, Scimitar, Rapier, Great Sword
-Nice: Katana, Falchion, Adamantite Great Sword
-Magic: (Sword Type) +X, Flaming (Sword Type), Holy (Sword Type)
-Legendary: Desert Wind, Celestial Fury, Silver Sword of Gith, The Gem Sword
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maglag
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

How do you regen HP/MP? Auto-recover at the end of every battle, cheap potions, magical inns?

Are there spells that can be used outside of battle? I suppose healing stuff would be a yes, but what about invisibility and whatnot?

What happens if a PC drops to 0 HP?


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Chamomile
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

We've kind of moved on, but to clarify an earlier statement: I don't think a game about exploring the consequences of fiscal irresponsibility can avoid fighting bandits at some point, I just think it's a bad way to set the tone.
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maglag
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Speaking of which, any chance we get to stab in the face the corporate bosses that keep exploiting the poor even in this time of disarray? Or would that be too unrealistic?
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Whipstitch
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

You could do a tutorial dungeon setup instead where the protagonist acquires sweet loot that people are too poor to give a shit about.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 11:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

maglag wrote:
Speaking of which, any chance we get to stab in the face the corporate bosses that keep exploiting the poor even in this time of disarray? Or would that be too unrealistic?

I think there could plausibly be quite a lot of violent resistance from the people on top once you start visibly trying to make changes. And once they've sent their assassins or jackbooted thugs to get you, I think face-stabbing the bosses is a totally legit way to respond.
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Koumei
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2015 6:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Regaining HP/MP: typically you can stay at a rest place, either an abandoned building for free or an inn in return for some kind of trade thing. I might give the protagonist a "set up camp" ability that is an out-of-battle "spell". It then half heals you, flips a coin to see if there's a random battle, then finishes healing you if there isn't one.

Spells out of battle: yeah, recovery ones are the obvious ones. But it wouldn't be too hard to have certain spells also work out of battle and either carry forward into combat or actually provide a benefit on the field.

Reaching zero HP: doing the D&D thing where people remain dead until resurrected and inns provide no benefit is actually harder in this engine. And considering the group won't be forced to take a Cleric, I think I'll do the standard "They are dead-ish until you rest at an inn." deal.

Stabbing the upper class in the face: I've been saying we need to do this in the real world for ages. Of course that will be a possibility. For the Dwarfs and Drow at least, I see that as being a legitimate solution. But in general, you're going to get people liking their share of the pie as it is, interfering with you, and needing a good killing.
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