Shadow of the Demon Lord, grimdark for dummies.

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Shadow of the Demon Lord, grimdark for dummies.

Post by K »

Shadow of the Demon Lord

Looks like some of the usual suspects of DnD and Paizo have decided to make a rules-lite grimdark fantasy RPG. Nothing really new here, but the character building does look like interesting. Combat looks less so. Sample spells include such winners as "Hole of Glory."

Also notable for having a terrible Kickstarter video.
Last edited by K on Thu Mar 26, 2015 9:58 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Post by TheFlatline »

It automatically loses points for using a (slightly modified) Lord of the Rings font.
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Post by Dogbert »

So Monte Cook in his neckbeard phase in a grimdark, anti-player game... yeah, I'll pass.
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Post by CapnTthePirateG »

The only thing this game has going for it right now is that Mike Mearls is not working on it.
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Post by nockermensch »

It's also nice that if you want to contribute with less than $24 they literally call you a hobo. people pledging from $24 to $47 (this is enough money to buy 1-2 printed RPG books that already exist. more if you get a sale) are upgraded to demonic hobos.

You need to shell out $66 to get the actual printed book, by which point you're a devoted cultist sucker cultist which deserve exactly what you'll get.
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Post by RelentlessImp »

Anyone else appalled by the art of the characters? Eugh. It looks like they took pictures of people and then photoshopped around them. It's just hideous.
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Post by TarkisFlux »

Yeah, I saw this and liked the char gen stuff. And then I saw the asking price, and laughed while I closed the tab and promptly forgot about it.
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Post by OgreBattle »

There's no excuse to have art of that quality when Chinese fantasy game artists are plentiful to hire nowadays
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Post by Prak »

The first notable thing I see reading through character creation is the continuation of this seemingly increasingly popular thing I'm going to go ahead and call "your cup of magical tea," where the player has some thing that is more a roleplaying consideration than anything strictly mechanical and lets them say "Oh! My character is the biggest badass with a sword from Dot Village!" or "I watched Clash of the Titans too much and want a useless mechanical owl!" Obviously continuing on from 13th Age (and Fate's aspects were a similar idea), and a good one I think.


...the next "interesting" thing I notice is the implication that characters start at shit tier and don't gain an actual level until after the first adventure, and then that level is supposed to reflect what they "did" (or more likely, failed at doing) in the adventure.
Of all the path choices, your novice path gives you the most benefits. The higher number of benefits protects you from making suboptimal choices later on, thus freeing you to choose the paths that fit your character’s story. As a warrior, you will always be great at fighting, even if you choose other paths that have nothing to do with fighting. Similarly, as a priest, you will always be good at helping others, lending support through the prayers you whisper.
This bit sounds awesome, if they do it right. I doubt they will, but I suppose there's always the possibility that their heads slip out of their asses.


Their character creation bit makes a lot of god promises, but it's kind of just a waiting game to see how much they fuck those promises up.
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Post by OgreBattle »

I like their novice->expert path progression, but the description doesn't really sound like much. Being an assassin, thief, or berserker sound like level 1 concepts.

"Similarly, a rogue who spends much of her time skulking in the shadows and taking out enemies from hidden positions would likely choose assassin."

that sounds as exciting to me as a D&D4e rogue getting a feat to increase sneak attack damage at level 3, that's just part of base class expectations. I'll have to see what it looks like to really judge though.

The discussions the gaming den has had on FFXI style main/subjobs seems more interesting.
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Post by Prak »

Well, there are some things that I might cannibalize. The "Ancestry" thing neatly sidesteps the whole "races" problem of fantasy games, and would be a much better way for me to handle the problem I had in Midgard of Norse elves and dwarves having more in common with the Aesir than with humans (and is in fact the way I handled it, except that I said the half-mortal elves and dwarves bred true into new species). I definitely like the Cup of Magic Tea thing, and was already planning on including Aspects, so I made add that into Midgard too.

There are solid concepts going into this, the writers just have shown that they are shit at actual writing.
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FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
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Post by Aryxbez »

I actually recently Backed the Kickstarter, so I'm interested enough to see how it turns out. I'll totally do a review of it, especially for any junk to look out for, when it comes out if ya'll interested.

Here's some addtional info about it, albeit some of its already been shared:
Resolution Mechanic: http://schwalbentertainment.com/.../kic ... r-dice-and.../

Combat: http://schwalbentertainment.com/.../kickstarter-combat.../

Insanity loss & Corruption: http://schwalbentertainment.com/.../kic ... r-insanity.../ (apparently if a Demon Prince is dropped, its 3d6 sanity in a 18 mile radius)

The "Paths" (aka classes): http://schwalbentertainment.com/.../kickstarter-choose.../

Spells: http://schwalbentertainment.com/2015/03 ... ns-spells/

Alleged Ease of Making PC would look like: http://schwalbentertainment.com/.../let ... character/
Dogbert wrote:So Monte Cook in his neckbeard phase in a grimdark, anti-player game... yeah, I'll pass.
It's by Robert J Schwalb actually, although the quality of his work I'm not really sure. He worked on 5th edition, he did like 4e's Divine Power, some Demon articles for that edition as well. Weirdly enough, despite its advertising, the news I had been following has made it seem more "heroic" in Fantasy opposed to all "Grimdark". Though there is apparently enough dials to make a game start/end in one session (mix Zombie Apocalypse +Global pandemics & Corrupted Magic whatever last one means).
nockermensch wrote:It's also nice that if you want to contribute with less than $24 they literally call you a hobo.
I"m unsure if cool with the pledge levels being called a Hobo or not exactly. I thought it was interesting, Hobo's be cool & what D&D adventurers famously called. In general, I think the Kickstarter has been interesting than the others, the author seems to have a sense of humor with it, and I liked the "Achievements" idea (included silly bits like getting 25 pics of Mayonaise-Jars optional, Beets, D20's, and so on).

From the Kickstarter wrote:Easy to Learn: The GM decides if a character’s action happens, doesn’t happen, or might happen. If it might happen, a roll of the die determines the outcome.
Till I had received some clarity from the author about this initially, I really disliked the sound of that. Apparently its bit more poorly wrote, as seemingly circumstances built on more objective measures, that if can present case why doable (if it were impossible) then can roll. Though yeah..that really just sounds like players be arguing with DM on any case that's being made "possible" slowing down the game that's supposed to be fast.

What REALLY interests me about this game is on the DMing side, the horror toggles, the short games/campaign work for my style quite perfectly. I'm definitely seeing 4e vibes with the game however, with essentials like class format/progression, seemingly the implied capabilities of characters, and focus on combat.
What I find wrong w/ 4th edition: "I want to stab dragons the size of a small keep with skin like supple adamantine and command over time and space to death with my longsword in head to head combat, but I want to be totally within realistic capabilities of a real human being!" --Caedrus mocking 4rries

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Post by Username17 »

There was a period when 4e was in a tailspin, where the people working for WotC's D&D division were frantically putting together and then abandoning Essentials when pretty much no one was writing articles for the online magazines. But Robert Schwalb still was. He is pretty much solely responsible for tens of thousands of people not giving up their D&D Insider Subscriptions, which means that without hyperbole I can say that he brought millions of dollars in to the company.

Robert Schwalb probably feels rather entitled to get something back from D&D considering how much his personal efforts have done to keep the game and the company afloat. However... I can't actually point to anything he's ever done that particularly struck me as good.

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Post by OgreBattle »

The idea of fast/slow turns is interesting:
Combat is resolved in 10-second units of time, called
rounds. A round has three parts: fast turns, slow turns,
and the end of the round.
During each round, players who want to take a turn
(fast or slow) do so in that part of the round, in any order
they choose. Once a player finishes his or her turn, he or
she cannot take another turn until after the end of that
round. If players cannot decide who goes first, the GM
might decide or have each conflicting player roll a d6,
with priority going to the highest result.
Once all the players have finished taking their turns
during a part of the round, creatures under the GM’s
control may take turns in that part, in any order. Once a
creature finishes its turn, it cannot take another turn until
after the end of that round.
Fast Turns
A creature that takes a fast turn can either use an action
or move up to its Speed. It cannot do both.
Slow Turns
A creature that takes a slow turn can both use an action
and move up to its Speed. It may use an action at any
point during its movement.
The examples they use of "used a fast turn to cast a spell, used a fast turn to charge and hit sword; used a slow turn to move and... hit with sword" don't clarify what difference it makes though.

Maybe some spells will require a 'full action' so its always a slow turn. Maybe charging has significant penalties than 'slow turn move and attack' has. Wish they'd clarify that with their examples.
Last edited by OgreBattle on Sat Mar 28, 2015 8:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Aryxbez »

OgreBattle wrote:Maybe charging has significant penalties than 'slow turn move and attack' has.
Yeah, one of the podcasts thingy had charge mentioned that ye take a "bane" when doing it. Which Boon/Bane system is roll a 1d6, and the highest of it adds/subtracts respectively to your result. They cancel out on a 1-1 basis, so hopefully doesn't come up too often to have the 5e probelm w/Adv/Dis.


EDIT: Is something I've wondered, initial Fighter class that speaks for majority of your abilities so far, is just basic numbers stuff. With other Fighter-type Paths can take, is it possible to balance those with characters that get spells? Assuming of course isn't just simply getting spells (though end-game class/path you can take for a warrior is in fact a Gish).
Last edited by Aryxbez on Sat Mar 28, 2015 8:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
What I find wrong w/ 4th edition: "I want to stab dragons the size of a small keep with skin like supple adamantine and command over time and space to death with my longsword in head to head combat, but I want to be totally within realistic capabilities of a real human being!" --Caedrus mocking 4rries

"the thing about being Mister Cavern [DM], you don't blame players for how they play. That's like blaming the weather. Weather just is. You adapt to it. -Ancient History
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Post by Aryxbez »

For instance, if any of you are crazy enough like me, ye read the blurry images on the classes to read what their abilities are, which I'll share here. Following level-by level abilities of your Novice/First Path/class you take:

Magician
Level 1, Attributes = choose 2 and increase them by +1.
Characteristics: Health +2, Power +1
Magic: You learn the cantrip spell, which is detailed Below. You discover one Tradition. Finally make four choices for each, you either discover a new tradition, or learn one spell from your tradition.

Cantrip, Magician Utility 0: (think Presdignation from D&D) You perform a minor magical trick. The trick cannot deal damage, heal damage, prevent damage, or cause a creature to gain insanity or corruption. It effect cannot require you or anyhone else to make an action roll, attack roll, or resistance roll. Finally it cannot effect more than 5 yards from you. Examples Include cleaning an item, lighting a candle, brightening or dimming a natural flame, changing the color of something, clearing the odor from the air around you, or create a faint image on a reflective surface.

Level 2
Characteristics: Health +2
Magic: Make two choices. For each, you may either discover a new tradition, or learn one spell from your traditions.
Arcane Armor: you may use an action to cause an invisible field of energy to spring into existence around you and remain there untl you become incapicitated, you complete a rest, or you put on armor. Until the effect ends, your Defense is 15, as well, normal precipitation does not touch you, mild breezes do not stir your clothing, or mess your hair. and you ar never made uncomfortable by cold or warm temperatures unless those temperatures extremes would deal damage in which case you are affected normally.

Spell recovery: You may use an action to heal damage equal to your healing rate, and you regain a casting you expended from a spell you have learned. Once you use this talent, you cannot use it again until after you complete a rest.

Level 5 Expert Magician, Characteristics Health +2, Power +1.
Magic: you ever discover a new tradition or learn one spell from your traditions.
Counterspell: When a creature you can see makes an attack roll against you using Magic, you maye use an extra action to cause the creature to have a Bane for its roll.

Level 8 Master Magician, Characteristics: Health +2
Magic: You either discover a new tradition or learn a new spell from your traditions.
Improved Arcane Armor: Your Defense increase to 18? While you are under the effects of your Arcane Armor Talent.
Improved Spell recovery:When you use your Magician Recovery talent, you regain two castings you expended from spells you have learned.
Priest
Traditions by Religion (So kinda like Example of gods using Domains)
Religion /Associated Traditions

Cult of the new god: Celestial, Life or Theurgy
Dwarfen Ancestors: Battle, Earth or Life.
Earth Lord: Earth, Illusion, or Shadow
Faerie Queen: Enchantment, Faerie, or Illusion
Gods of Blood and Iron: Battle or Spirtualism
---
Old Faith: Nature, Primal OR traditions from a specific Deity (below)
-Father Death: Death or Shadow
-Horned King: Polymorph or Primal
-Maiden of the Moon: Celestial or Summoning
-Old Man Winter: Storm or Water
-Revvel?: Enchantment or Illusion
-Queen of Summer: Celestial or Fire
-The Seer: Divination or Time
-World Mother: Life or Nature
---
Witchcraft: Black Magic, Enchantment, Life or Witchcraft


Level 1 Priest, Attributes: choose two and increase them by 1.
Chracteristics: Health +4
Languages: you can read one of the languages you can speak if you can't do so already.
Professions: you become a minister or something else if you are already a Minister.
Magic: you learn the prayer spell (see below) and you discover one tradition associated with your religion (see the traditions by religion table)
Shared Recovery: You may use an action to heal damage equal to your healing rate. Then choose one creature other than you that is within short range of you. The target also heals damage equal to its healing rate. You may use this talent once. You regain the ability to use this talent when you complete a rest.

Prayer Priest Utility 0: You use an extra action to cast this wepll when you or a creature within short range of you makes an action roll, attack roll, or resistance roll. The triggering creature has a boon for its roll.

Level 2 Priest
Characteristics: Health +4, Power +1
Magic: make three choices, for each you either discover a new tradition associated with your religion, or learn one spell from you traditions.
Critical Smite When you attack with a weapon, and you rol a 20 on the die, each creature that attacks the target until the end of the next round has a boon for its attack roll.

Level 5 Expert Priest
Characteristics: Health +4, Power +1
Magic: Learn one spell from your traditions.
Battle Prayer: When you cast the Prayer spell to gain a boon for your attack roll, your weapon deals 1d6 extra damage.

Level 8 Master Priest
Characteristics: Health +4
Magic: learn on spell from your traditions.
Greater Prayer: When you cast the prayer spell, the target has a boon for all rolls until the end of the round.
Improved Shared Recovery: you may use your shared recovery talent an additional time.
Rogue
Level 1 Rogue Attributes choose two and increase them by 1.
Characteristics: Perception +1, Health +3
Professions: Choose one academic, common, wilderness, or/of Low?
Nimble Recovery: you may use an action or extra action on your turn to heal damage equal to your healing rate and move up to one-half your Speed. This movement does not trigger free attacks. You may use this talent once. You regain the ability to use this talent when you complete a rest.
Sneak Attack: When you get a success on an attack roll made using a basic weapon, swift weapon, or ranged weapon, you may use this talent to deal 1d6 extra damage. Once yo uuse this talent, you cannot use it again until after the end of the next round.
Trickery: Once per round, when you make an action roll, an attack roll, or a resistance roll, you may use this talent to have a boon for the roll.


Level 2 Rogue
Characteristics: Health +3
Critical Action: When you attack with a weapon and you roll a 20 on the die, you maye take another turn at any point before the end of the round. You may use this talent once per round.
Roguery Talent: Choose a Roguery Talent from the options presented below.

Level 5 Expert Rogue
Characteristics Health +3
Dirty Tricks: Your weapon attacks deal 1d6 extra damage when you have a Boon for the attack roll.
Rogue Cunning: you may use Trickery twice per round.

Level 8 Master Rogue
Characteristics: Health +3
Roguery Talent: Choose any Roguery talent from the options presented below:

Roguery Talents:
Backstab: you attacks with melee weapons deal 1d6 extra damage when you have a boon for the attack roll.
If you choose this talent a second time, the extra damage increase to 2d6.

Magic: Increase Power score by 1. You discover one tradition. Finally, you have two choices to make. You may choose to discover a new tradition or learn one spell from your traditions.
If you choose this talent a second time, increase your Power by 1 and you may either discover a new tradition or learn one spell from your traditions.

Skirmish: As an attack, move up to one-half your Speed and make a weapon attack with one bane at any point during your movement. This movement does not trigger free attacks. On a success, the attack deals 1d6 extra damage.
If you choose this talent a second time, you may move up to your speed instead of one-half your speed.

Subterfuge: As an attack, choose one creature within short range of you. If the creature can hear you and understand what you say. Make an Intellect attack roll against the target's Intellect Score. On a success, the target becomes charmed until the end of the next round or until it takes damage. On a failure, the target becomes immune to this attack for 24 hours.
If you choose this talent a second time, you can make the attack roll even if the target doesn't understand what you say.
Warrior
Level 1 Warrior Attributes Choose two and increase them by 1.
Characteristics: Health +5
Catch your Breath: You may use an action or an extra action on your turn to heal damage equal to your healing rate. You may use this talent once. You regain expended uses of this talent when you complete a rest.
Weapon Training: you have a boon for attack rolls when you attack with weapons.

Level 2 Warrior
Characteristics: Health +5
Combat Prowess: you weapons deal 1d6 extra damage.
Critical Hit: You when attack with a weapon and you roll a 20 on the die, your attack does 2d6 extra damage.

Level 5 Expert Warrior
Characteristics: Defense +1, Health +5
Weapon Expertise: When you use an action to make an attack, you may either deal 1d6 extra damage with that attack, or make an attack with a weapon against a different target.

Level 8 Master Warrior
Characteristics: Health +5
Grit: You may use Catch your Breath on additional time.
Weapon Mastery: When you use an action to make an attack, you either deal 1d6 extra damage with that attack or make an attack with a weapon against a different target. This Talent is cumulative with Weapon expertise, though you must choose a different target for each attack.

It had concerned me that Warriors were just a sack of numbers, with casters getting spells on top of same leveled features. Your HP is equal to your Con score as I recall, and then advances via class from there.

The only Monster we have to compare, and I can't make much heads or tails of what level its expected to face the PC's at.


EDIT: Additionally, the bit on Demonic Binding and Possession (sorry I could barely read them), for what its worth:

Binding Demons
Dark magic cna bind demons into special containers. The container can be any item a doll, a glass ball, a sword, or an iron bottle. The vessle must be readied before it can hold a demon. Preperations are elmilsner? and Inolved? taking about 8-9? hours and using 10gp of rare ingredients. Once performed, the vessle is ready and a creature knows at least one Demonology spell may attempt to bond it any time? thereafter.
The creature responsible for that containers creature? may use an action to choose one demon it can see and attempt to [Can't read] "to Fool/force in lake the ???." The creature makes a Willpower attack roll against the Demons Willpower score. If [??? the PC?] speaks the Demon's True name, it has boon for the attack roll, on a success, the demon dissolves into a cloud of putrid smoke that streams [Into?] the container? and remains there until something releases it. On a failure, the container breaks and the Demon has one boon for attacks it makes against the creature that attempted to bind it for 24 hours.

An object with a Demon trapped inside it is a powerful relic for those dabble in the dakr arts. Anyone carrying the container has one boon for rolls to attack with Black Magic, Demonology, and Recovery?? spells.

In addition once per day, a creature holding the container may use an action to release the demon. The demon appears in an open space within 1d6 yards and is compelled by the creature that released it for up to 1d6? minutes. If the creature damages?/destroys? the vessel, the compelled? condition edns an the demon [acts?] freely until the duration expires. At the end of the time ore when one creature holding the container uses an action to command the demon to return, the demon turns into smoke and fades? back inside the container.

The Demon within is malicious and vengeful, it causes? strange things to happen around it. [can't read], animal panics, knocks around the empty rooms, and foul smells haing in the air. A creature tha goes made while holding the device becomes possessed by the demon contained in the jar/jail/container?

If the container is destroyed, the demon appears in an open space it chooses within 1d6 yards of the broke containers.

Demonic Possession
If a creature goes mad as a result of gaining insanity from a demon, the demon may use an extra action to possess that creature. The demon makes a willpower attack roll against the creatures Willpower score. A success causes the demon to disappear and take control of the creature, replacing the inellect & willpower with the new [can't read], and supplanting that creatures personality with his own. The Demon makes a [can't read] of the creatures soul, and learns? everything the creatuer knows and remembers.

Once a demon possesses a creature, it remains in control? of that creature unti it is forced out, usually by magic. A demon hide with the creature it possess, thus allowing the creatures mind to take charge of the body once again. The creatue has no recollection of what happened while the demon is in control and does not know that is body harbors a demonic presence. The Demon can "regain control?" at any time it chooses.

A creature compelled by a demon typically displays some physical manifestation of the evil possessed?. The creature might reek of rotting meat, expel foul liquids? of unlikely [can't read], being severly aggressive, display [???] markings in the flesh, change [???] become afflicted with boils, sores, and bruises? or anything above the [???]

Once a demon is forced out of a creature, the demon makes a willpower resistance roll, on a success? the demon appears in an open space it chooses within 1d3? yards of the creatures body it left. On a failure, the demon disappears into the Void.
Last edited by Aryxbez on Sun Mar 29, 2015 4:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
What I find wrong w/ 4th edition: "I want to stab dragons the size of a small keep with skin like supple adamantine and command over time and space to death with my longsword in head to head combat, but I want to be totally within realistic capabilities of a real human being!" --Caedrus mocking 4rries

"the thing about being Mister Cavern [DM], you don't blame players for how they play. That's like blaming the weather. Weather just is. You adapt to it. -Ancient History
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Post by Username17 »

You can balance raw number bonuses with special powers so long as those special powers aren't out of scale with everyman skills. The Warrior has all kinds of "abilities" like "has thumbs" and "able to tie ropes to things" that can be used to solve problems even if they aren't specifically written on his character sheet. So if those kinds of abilities are relevant, the character can still be relevant without getting any abilities and just getting numeric bonuses to things.

That being said, such balancing acts are extremely difficult and in any case dependent on things staying very low powered indeed. I am pretty much openly contemptuous of people being able to pull that off, especially if they want to have possession demons that can only be forced to manifest with magic as a major part of the game.

But the real part that I think is shit design is the Rogue vs. Warrior. I can't really tell you what having Magical Traditions does, but the Rogue eventually gets some and the Warrior does not. In the meantime, the Rogue has objectively smaller combat numbers and more "skills." I don't think that's a balanceable system. Either you need those skills to interact with the world around you, or you don't. If you need them, then the Warrior is completely fake as a character option. If you don't need them, then the Warrior is just a better Rogue unless and until getting a Magic Tradition becomes necessary and then the Warrior becomes a completely fake character option again.

I simply don't see how it's possible to make a balanced game with the Warrior and the Rogue they have. Even if things stay low enough in power that not having Magic is an acceptable life choice, this still seems completely untenable on first principles.

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Post by Dogbert »

I started to read the rules you people shared... then got to the insanity and corruption part. And stopped reading.

There's a corruption score with penalties for not being a goody-two-shoes, so the game is about being a goody-two-shoes... in a grimdark setting... with insanity rules. But also the game is about facing the insanity-inducing things and fighting them as opposed to running away from them, so you could validly argue that Call of Cthulhu is actually less shitty/grim than this game.

Thus, the game at its core is black comedy at best and misery tourism at worst. It's The Binding of Isaac: The roleplaying game.
Last edited by Dogbert on Mon Mar 30, 2015 4:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Slade »

Wait, if a Rogue level 2 Crits (rolls a 20), he gets another turn?! Each round. Granted, 5% chance to be better than everyone.

That seems better than what Warrior gets though. Then magic at 8th...

I'm not seeing how the warrior can match that.

Because Warrior gets boon with weapons, but his allies can't grant him a boon then (since he already has one, but they can grant the Rogue one).
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OgreBattle
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Post by OgreBattle »

Slade wrote: Because Warrior gets boon with weapons, but his allies can't grant him a boon then (since he already has one, but they can grant the Rogue one).
Multiple boons turn into a 'pick highest' thing and cancel out banes 1 for 1. So a fighter getting prayer from a priest rolls 2d6 keeps highest.

Everyone else gets something extra with their healing surge but warrior gets... nothing. I was expecting something like an extra attack or increased healing, or perhaps getting to spend it when they hit 0 hitpoints as an extra action.

The rogue's abilities are a little confusingly worded though like...
-Sneak attack is a once per round extra 1d6 damage
-Trickery is a once per round boon to an attack/action/resistance roll
-Dirty Tricks is 1d6 extra damage whenever you have a boon to attack
-Backstab is a selected talent that does 1d6 extra damage whenever you have a boon to attack

I don't see why they need to have sneak attack as once per round damage not attached to boons, then give rogues a once per round boon to attacks and bonus damage related to booned attacks. It'd be cleaner and more concise if it was something like...

-Sneak attack is 1d6 extra damage whenever an attack is made with a boon
-Trickery is a once per round boon to an attack/action/resistance roll
-The additional abilities that boost sneak attack damage is called "Improved Sneak Attack" so it's very clear at a glance what its enhancing.


As for the Warrior, not having an extra action associated with their healing surge is odd considering that the arcane caster recovers magic points, the divine caster heals others, and the rogue gets bonus movement. I'd change the warrior's healing surge ability to...

-Fighting Recovery: you may use an action or extra action on your turn to heal damage equal to your healing rate and make an attack. You may use this talent once. You regain the ability to use this talent when you complete a rest.

This gives the fighter an additional attack, but because it's tied to his healing surge they have an incentive to not use it on the first round but save it for later rounds after they've taken some damage.

By the way what are the 'defender mechanics' in the game? Do monsters stop moving if they're struck? Does ignoring the warrior provoke OA's? I'll need to know this to really understand the value of the rogue's movement skills.

We'll also have to see what the various expert class do and how they synergize across the rogue, warrior, and magic users. I imagine there'll be some way to build a rogue with a ton of attacks to get as many extra turns as possible.
Last edited by OgreBattle on Mon Mar 30, 2015 5:47 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by Username17 »

Warriors get more Health bonus, and presumably have a higher amount of hit points recovered from each recovery. I don't know how much more, and since they only have 1 more health per level than Priests I suspect this is actually a bullshit bonus, but I believe that was the thinking behind giving them the weakest recovery action in terms of secondary effects. They have the strongest recovery action in terms of primary effects.

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Post by tussock »

OgreBattle wrote:The idea of fast/slow turns is interesting:
Obviously you always choose to take an action, so not moving makes you go before the people on your team who do move. But then you also go after them, because it's next round. "Charging" is not movement, it's an action, just to clarify.

Moving means you go after the monsters who don't move. So they have to move to get to you, so you go before them and move, so they don't have to move and you go after them ... oh, never mind.
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Post by Aryxbez »

I'm definitely eager to see more of your guys criticisms for the game when more info is presented, or comes out. Not much new, but I did vaguely learn more about the Robot Race or "Clockwork".
A KS backer wrote:I played a Clockwork Priest at a game Rob ran at Gary Con; there were no restrictions. Advantages include armored body (respectable boost to Defense), immune to poison, disease, fatigue, aging. Plus no need to breathe, eat, or drink.
Robert J Schwalb wrote:Clockworks are autonomous creatures that have two states: creature and object. They have keys in their backs that they cannot reach. The key is assumed to always be turning. When the you roll a 1 on a d20, your clockwork character winds down at the end of the round and becomes an insensate object until another creature uses an action to turn the key. There's plenty of flexibility in their form and appearance and personality. Clockworks are created by stealing souls from the Underworld and binding them to mechanical bodies. The souls usually have no memory of what happened to them. As creatures, they heal as creatures. As objects, they can be repaired.
Bolded portion Really concerns me, as I doubt the benefits outweigh a 1-20 chance of being taken out of combat, which may possibly create much frustration, or annoyance outside of combat. We know expectation wise, a single adventure is a 3-5hr session, and 11 "adventures/sessions" is a campaign. From what I can vaguely recall in a pod-cast, a combat seem to take 3-5? rounds only fighting 1-2 opponents (there were 3 combats). So assuming 3 round per combat average, that's 33-99 combats per campaign? with this robot shutting down possibly five times per campaign in combat? Obviously, I'm not sure the math on that, and I'm possibly looking at the wrong parameters, but how truly often would this come up you guys think?
Last edited by Aryxbez on Wed Apr 08, 2015 12:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Prak »

I'm really hoping they include some kind of "Unseen Servant" spell, because that would completely obviate that flaw, and I could see them stumbling into something like that.
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Post by RelentlessImp »

Nothing I've seen about this makes me want to play it. It's more grimderp than WH40k at its derpiest. The Clockworks are kinda cool but the 5% chance to just shut down is annoying.
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