The Gaming Den

Kaelik wrote:1) Chalice Dungeons are pretty cool initially, though we will see how I change my mind when I have beaten all the bosses and they just keep throwing them at me with more HP.

I know at least some of them have variations.

My first Chalice Dungeon boss was an undead giant with a couple of blades mounted on his arms.

Then I found me a giant who had a blade on his arm and carried a cannon under another.

The most recent undead giant I fought had a scythe on one arm, a big iron club on the other, and he was dragging iron balls on chains anchored to his back. When he did some of his big attacks, or circular slashes they would flail outwards and beat me to death.

I hear some of the other bosses do the same deal--get variations or terrain to add a smidgeon of interest to it.

There are surely some variations, but have you seen how many billion chalice dungeons you need to do to just get the Roots, that you then have to do to get the actual Roots themselves to get the Uncanny/Lost versions of weapons, and the high end gems, and the blood rocks. And you probably have to do the lower roots even before to get the components to make the other dungeons.

Welp, here's some of those boss variations.

I'm currently going through the Seven Stages of a Bloodborne boss on the first boss in the Defiled Dungeon.

This would be easier if my health were not halved in this dungeon.

He's a boss you fight earlier, except now he has all these fire moves that he's flinging around. Including waves of flame on some of his normal attacks. So I've got to learn how to dodge those and stay close enough to attack him. Or when to shoot him to stun him without trading hits, because the timing on that seems kinda tight.

I got that boss who was giving me trouble, by finding the tell for when to shoot him on most his attacks to stun him.

It wasn't even a fair fight. Seriously, it kept going "Shoot, approach him, remove one of his organs".

That was by far my most dominant win on a boss, even beating out when I fought the Blood-starved Beast on a Depth 2 dungeon and killed him without realizing it.

Now I'm hankering for an After Sundown: Bloodborne expansion

OgreBattle wrote:Now I'm hankering for an After Sundown: Bloodborne expansion

I don't know if that's that good a fit. The Bloodborne plague might be lycanthropy, but it's not cool lycanthropy--more a gradual change into a permanent warform, with a degradation of the mind until you're just a somewhat bright bright beast. In most cases. There is one bastard who apparently kept his mind.

Most of the weapons are things that tear open big holes, freeing lots of blood, because that seems to be the quickest way to kill some of these things.

You could do it, it though--playing a group of Hunters who are trying to survive the night and do some good, worrying about if they've been infected a well, because it's a very slow progression so you wouldn't know for a good while, and getting glimpses of the cosmic horror which, while cosmic, also seems to be hanging right over your head, once you know enough to know it's there.

So aside from going offline, is it actually possible to beat the stupid nightmare place? Literally I get invaded the second the first invader dies.

Yeah, I'd just go into off-line mode at that point. That place is enough of a hassle without constant invasions.

So it seems Bloodborne is a return to form from From, after the infinite blandness of DS2. Is that right ?

Kaelik wrote:So aside from going offline, is it actually possible to beat the stupid nightmare place? Literally I get invaded the second the first invader dies.

If you kill the bell maiden in that area, she doesn't respawn. You won't see another invader after that. IIRC, she's just a little bit after the two NPC hunters standing on a ledge above a sideways-head werewolf.

RufusCorvus wrote:

Kaelik wrote:So aside from going offline, is it actually possible to beat the stupid nightmare place? Literally I get invaded the second the first invader dies.

If you kill the bell maiden in that area, she doesn't respawn. You won't see another invader after that. IIRC, she's just a little bit after the two NPC hunters standing on a ledge above a sideways-head werewolf.

So you have to do that during online play? Because I couldn't find her at all in offline play, and it would have to be one hell of a sprint from the spawn since I am 10000% serious that I kill one invader, and immediately another one is there.

Covenants are fucking stupid. You have an entire ring slot locked to one of three covenants, and of those 3, 1 is impossible to lock yourself out of, and literally fucking garbage, one is better than having none, and you probably won't lock yourself out of it, and if you are a completionist or read a wiki you will get it.

And one, is really fucking easy to lock yourself out of permanently, and gives you the best rune in the game.

Three covenants, but really just one, and a consolation prize for people who accidentally lock themselves out of one. Fuck Covenants in this game.

Are there only 3 covenants in Bloodborne ?

Kaelik wrote:

RufusCorvus wrote:

Kaelik wrote:So aside from going offline, is it actually possible to beat the stupid nightmare place? Literally I get invaded the second the first invader dies.

If you kill the bell maiden in that area, she doesn't respawn. You won't see another invader after that. IIRC, she's just a little bit after the two NPC hunters standing on a ledge above a sideways-head werewolf.

So you have to do that during online play? Because I couldn't find her at all in offline play, and it would have to be one hell of a sprint from the spawn since I am 10000% serious that I kill one invader, and immediately another one is there.

It's entirely possible she doesn't spawn off-line. I managed to the get through the area with only two or three invasions before killing her, but I was also under-leveled.

You might not find getting through the frontier worth it. The area terminates with the boss and all you get is a chalice.

Re: covenants. Yeah, they are super lame this time around. I ranked up enough in the Vilebloods to get the Deep Respect gesture because it's cool looking, but have stuck with Hunter of Hunters (i.e. the good one) ever since. Extra stamina regen trumps piddly-ass near-death health regen and whatever the fuck Executioner gives you any day of the week.

Covenants are one area where Dark Souls 2 had enormously better design, even if implementation was lacking.

The frontier is something I did to say I did it. It was a challenge, and what the fuck am I playing a From Software game for? (okay, aesthetics, solid combat, etc etc. Still. Challenge is part of the appeal).

I was also shocked to see how much of the place is a red herring. It's good money and good items, but it IS a motherfucker of a place that initially looks a lot more complex than it really is.

And I would like to say that Frenzy, and all things that inflict it, are utter bullshit.

In the case of the Chime Maiden, I had to zerg her. I popped a bolt paper and ran right for her and then tried very hard to kill her to death.

I died afterwards from stuff I'd kited, but it cleared the field.

I have heard about Frenzy and how much of a bullshit status effect it is.

Also, really? Only three covenants in the whole game? That's pretty goddamned lame.

icyshadowlord wrote:I have heard about Frenzy and how much of a bullshit status effect it is.

As near as I can tell, most things that inflict Frenzy, will continue to do so as you stand by them. There's also an enemy whose whole shtick is inflicting Frenzy from far away--but they also have a grab attack. Which combined with Frenzy's horrific amounts of damage, will kill you. And I mean it'll do this quickly.

It appears to do a fuckton of your max HP in damage, like if DS 1 Bleed 80-90% of your life. I don't know why they called it Frenzy because it doesn't make your character go wild and both do and take more damage--unless they get so ripshit-pissed they have a sudden massive internal brain hemorrhage.

I think they meant 'madness' like you go insane and die, but translated it as 'frenzy'. The more insight you have the faster frenzy does damage to you so those two are definitely inspired by sanity loss mechanics from Call of Cthulu type games.

So, would Bloodborne or Dark Souls be recommendable for someone who has anger issues? Or should I avoid it?

Shrapnel wrote:So, would Bloodborne or Dark Souls be recommendable for someone who has anger issues? Or should I avoid it?

It will be an enormous help in teaching you to CONTROL your anger issues. Or you'll break something. One of the two.

Dark Souls is cheaper. It is also somewhat easier to pick up and play, I think. Doesn't pull some of Bloodborne's "You've seen a few enemy types. Now here's ten enemies of mixed kinds in a bigass group with a dude shooting at you, and you've been playing the game twenty minutes."

The absolute main thing to remember is that the game is brutally fair. There are rules to fighting efficiently. Enemies do not generally follow them perfectly, but you are capable of following them perfectly. If you don't get uberaggressive, learn to dodge and block and when to take an opening, you can win.

If you're stuck, it's probably because of something you didn't see. Or you're trying to bash your head on the hard way.

(True story: I spent two days unable to get past a bridge in Dark Souls 1. It's got a dragon at the far end of it, and he breathes a wave of fire that burns the whole bridge flat. I eventually blitzed and protected myself and made it across the bridge. It was only later that I noticed there was a path that meant I could avoid the dragon and still cross the bridge).

I'd say Bloodborne, the combat feels more fluid and visceral. It's also spookier so when you die it still feels part of the atmosphere.

Dark Souls II's pacing isn't as well polished as it was made by the From Software 'b team' since the president/Souls creator Hidetaka Miyazaki was working on Bloodborne. I'd recommend Dark Souls I over it (which Miyazaki directed)

Watching Edge of Tomorrow before playing can also get you into the right mindset.

I'm also gonna go with Dark Souls as the entry point. It worked for me.

In other news, I finally scrounged together the time/energy to power through Ebrietas. I'm pretty sure she managed to kill me more times than all of the other bosses combined. When I finally figured out how to stay close to her, she still managed to swat me down a few more times for good measure.

With Ebrietas down, I think that's all of the non-Chalice bosses, not counting the two final bosses. I've done...

Cleric Beast
Father Gascoigne
Vicar Amelia
Blood-starved Beast
Witch of Hemwick
Shadow of Yharnam
Rom
Darkbeast Paarl
Logarius
Amygdala
One Reborn
Micolash
Mergo's Wet Nurse
Celestial Emissary
Ebrietas

So I guess now's the time for me to blitz through the Chalice Dungeons in hopes of finding the Beast Claw, a blood rock, and some awesome gems to prep me for NG+.

As someone in NG+, it's not a big upswing in difficulty.

The enemies at the beginning have 1200 HP, or about there. I made it to NG Cainhurst Castle, and the gargoyles have like 1700.

Enemies do more damage, not enough to oneshot. They have more health, but not hugely more.

It just means no fight is trivialized. I can't one-shot anything, and that's...par for the course.

Right, so it seems that I should start with Dark Souls I, since that be the least frustrating and easiest to play. (Or at least, that's what I'm getting.)

I'm assuming if that I ask which console is best for the game, people will tell me "PC".