In game (non-witchery) get-uber schemes

Dogbert · Post by **Dogbert** » Sun Mar 22, 2015 11:42 pm

Seduce a nymph and you get a +4 to Will saves as long as you two remain on good terms.

Negotiate contractual servitude to a genie for a wish and you get the Genie-Bound template for a year (and then, nothing says your wish can't be "I want to keep the genie-bound template for life without additional contractual obligations").

The lich formula can be researched.

What other in-game get-uber schemes are there in pathfinder/3.X?

Basically, my itinerating band of murderhobos free entrepreneurs is looking for IC ways to increase their power and, being way into the midgame, we'll soon reach a point in which gold alone will no longer cut it.

Please, don't do threadcrapping by saying the obvious dumb crap like "play and get XP and treasure."

Ancient History · Post by **Ancient History** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 12:11 am

It depends on your resources, there are plenty of magic items that give permanent bonuses and crap, and there are plenty of useful spells you can have made permanent, and you can troll the D&D archives or back issues of Dragon for dead level cruft or alternate class abilities. You can even do subtype shifts and template-stacking with spells like Mantle of the Fiery Spirit - but from what you're talking about, you want something more fluff-based-but-gives-a-mechanical-advantage.

Shady314 · Post by **Shady314** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 1:26 am

True MindSwitch?

Dogbert · Post by **Dogbert** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 4:00 am

Shady314 wrote:True MindSwitch?

Care to elaborate, please?

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 4:05 am

Dogbert wrote:
Shady314 wrote:True MindSwitch?
Care to elaborate, please?

Should be really obvious. You find (Gate in) the best physical body you can find. You True Mindswitch into it.

Now you are a full caster with better physical stats than the Monk who rolled all 18s at the beginning, and you get whatever additional non mind bodies that your form has.

Nebuchadnezzar · Post by **Nebuchadnezzar** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 5:09 am

In 3.5 there are also legendary sites, magical locations, and Embrace/Shun the Dark Chaos.

Shady314 · Post by **Shady314** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 5:18 am

Like Kaelik said.
It is possible the lower level Mind switch(Not true)+Astral seed can perform the same function. It hinges on the spell description of astral seed.

Also psychic reformation. In Pathfinder it doesn't even cost XP. Want item creation feats but not all the time? No problem. Want a feat to enter a prestige class then ditch it later? No problem. Just found an even more ridiculous feat in a new book. You get the picture. Your party won't mind because you can do it to them too.
It doesn't just do feats. It also works on NPCs.

I just wasn't sure if you cared about these kind of powers cuz it's "witchery." Hence my question mark before.

Nebuchadnezzar wrote:In 3.5 there are also legendary sites, magical locations, and Embrace/Shun the Dark Chaos.

Oh yeah I forgot about those magical locations.

EDIT: Which just now made me remember affiliations.

erik · Post by **erik** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 5:41 am

So, ways to hit above your weight class without gaining XP or treasure?

If Liches are approved then any other acquired template as well is another obvious way to go. Lycanthropes and Vampire.

Minions is another obvious one. Dominate, charm, animate or command undead, planar binding, whatever.

Like AH said, Alternate Class Features are often a direct power-up. Complete Mage has some straight improvement ACFs. They usually won't make you unfair, but they'll make you better than you were if the DM lets players take em.

Not wanting to threadcrap, but I'm not sure what you meant by "gold will no longer cut it". Does this mean treasure doesn't help? Because that's crazy talk. Or do you just mean you're limiting their treasure and wanting a solution for a problem that doesn't necessarily have to exist?

Dogbert · Post by **Dogbert** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 6:44 am

I'm a player at that game, not the GM.

erik wrote:Lycanthropes and Vampire.

Already researching the lich formula, I'm not sure the other players would consider lycanthropy, and vampirism would severely limit our adventuring hours. Also, in this gaming world, vampires are related to the powers that be in ways that would make either becoming one or killing another one just "for science" a bad idea.

erik wrote:Minions is another obvious one.

I already have a shadow army, and now updating them to Spectres.

erik wrote:Does this mean treasure doesn't help?

Treasure always helps, I know, but it's 3.PF, so treasure, like XP, are both a given as part of playing/character advancement, that's why I'm specifically asking to keep both out of the list.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 7:18 am

Borderline threadcrapping, I suppose, but what about greyhawking dungeons to get as much material wealth as possible?

Or are you already prying out all the mosaic and gold doors and shit?