Tome Game I Run

Stories about games that you run and/or have played in.

Moderator: Moderators

Post Reply
User avatar
Kaelik
ArchDemon of Rage
Posts: 14757
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Tome Game I Run

Post by Kaelik »

Okay, so I feel I am now in position to run a PbP campaign that of a "module" that I have been working on off and on for years.

So I'm recruiting most anyone from these parts to play.

Game will start at level 7 and go from there depending on how you guys deal with it, but I doubt you'll finish before level 13 in any case.

Tome game, using my errata, and whatever other people want to make up and use that I okay. The main premise, and stop me if you've heard this before, is that, through one method or another, you find out about or hear of a giant huge as fuck black spire that just appeared within sight of a road through a large desert.

I'll set up a lot more than that once I know the party, but that is a lead off.

Attribute generation like 34 PB take average HP. And we will probably need to work together for some items, but Book of Gear items as a starting point, and you can have one Tome Armor plus five other minor items per my item rules in the Tome Errata thread.

EDIT: Oh yeah, I hate minion mancy and leadership, so don't do those things.
Last edited by Kaelik on Wed Feb 18, 2015 12:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?
The U.S. isn't a democracy and if you think it is, you are a rube.

That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
radthemad4
Duke
Posts: 2073
Joined: Mon Nov 18, 2013 8:20 pm

Post by radthemad4 »

Is Hicks' Mage okay? Can I burn feats for additional spheres?

How about Prak's Speedster? Perhaps with a monk level for a fighting style to never provoke AoOs and get pounce.
Last edited by radthemad4 on Wed Feb 18, 2015 2:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Grek
Prince
Posts: 3114
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 10:37 pm

Post by Grek »

Sure, I'm in. Playing an Aasimar Fire Mage who specializes in metamagic and burning things.
Chamomile wrote:Grek is a national treasure.
User avatar
Kaelik
ArchDemon of Rage
Posts: 14757
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by Kaelik »

radthemad4 wrote:Is Hicks' Mage okay? Can I burn feats for additional spheres?

How about Prak's Speedster? Perhaps with a monk level for a fighting style to never provoke AoOs and get pounce.
No the to Speedster, let me know if you still want me to look over Dean's Monk styles, for now they are not approved and not unapproved, I just haven't looked.

Hicks Mage is okay, but let me know what spheres you want because there might be some spot nerfs, for example, Greater Glyph of Warding does not work the way Hicks thinks it does, and the conjuration sphere teleport ability is going to have to have a range, because I know my campaign and there is a non zero possibility that you will be in a situation in which you can move action teleport hundreds of miles.

EDIT: No you can't spend feats to get more spheres.
Grek wrote:Sure, I'm in. Playing an Aasimar Fire Mage who specializes in metamagic and burning things.
Okay
Last edited by Kaelik on Wed Feb 18, 2015 3:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.
DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?
The U.S. isn't a democracy and if you think it is, you are a rube.

That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
radthemad4
Duke
Posts: 2073
Joined: Mon Nov 18, 2013 8:20 pm

Post by radthemad4 »

Not entirely sure what spheres I'd like to take just yet, but I'm currently eyeing Conjuration, Illusion and Transmutation. I'll probably pick one of those, or pick expert in two and basic in one. How would you handle polymorph?

On a different note, looking for approval on Bag Full of Knick Knacks (Skill Feat) and RadiantPhoenix's Adventurer

Also, I'm curious about why you banned the speedster?
User avatar
Kaelik
ArchDemon of Rage
Posts: 14757
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by Kaelik »

radthemad4 wrote:Not entirely sure what spheres I'd like to take just yet, but I'm currently eyeing Conjuration, Illusion and Transmutation. I'll probably pick one of those, or pick expert in two and basic in one. How would you handle polymorph?

On a different note, looking for approval on Bag Full of Knick Knacks (Skill Feat) and RadiantPhoenix's Adventurer

Also, I'm curious about why you banned the speedster?
Polymorph is substitution , but yes, those are all fine, except the specific range limit added to the teleport ability.

Sure I guess. They both look like they won't be any fun to play, but whatever.

It seems to be a non shitty version and possibly stupidly broken version of the Spring Attack Monk concept. Firstly that is a stupid concept for a character, to be outside the room/ 500ft away around a rock while your party fights. Secondly, I think the concept doesn't really fit in a fantasy world like that. It only fits in Super hero shit because speedesters are always required to hold the idiot ball forever.

And finally, if your character basically mandates that all enemies must use readied actions, you are basically incompatible with play by post. Like, you can ready actions in play by post occasionally, but it is just not fucking compatible if I have to do that literally all the time.
DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?
The U.S. isn't a democracy and if you think it is, you are a rube.

That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
User avatar
Dean
Duke
Posts: 2059
Joined: Mon May 12, 2008 3:14 am

Post by Dean »

I might be in. I think I'll give you're Kaelik Wizard a try as simple builds work better than anything in pbp's. I'll try to jazz up the build a little more than just a straight K-Wizard 7. Let me see if anything strikes me that could make the build a little more colorful.
DSMatticus wrote:Fuck you, fuck you, fuck you, fuck you. I am filled with an unfathomable hatred.
radthemad4
Duke
Posts: 2073
Joined: Mon Nov 18, 2013 8:20 pm

Post by radthemad4 »

Kaelik wrote:They both look like they won't be any fun to play, but whatever.
Swiss army cudgel allows the use of any weapon as any other weapon. With a Jester dip (they don't take non proficiency penalties or weapon size penalties) I basically get to use all the exotic weapons for free (and some have interesting abilities). I can grab someone as an attack action by emulating a mancatcher, pincer staff or sharktooth staff for improved grab, kick them twice using boots as boot blades, and then use them as a net or make ranged trip attacks with them (glot from Frostburn) or launch them straight up into the air as if firing from a Composite Greatbow.

Bag Full of Knickknacks gives me 750 GP (at current level) of floating wealth each day, so if I ever need say,shark repellent or whatever, I just happen to have it.
Last edited by radthemad4 on Wed Feb 18, 2015 11:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
Kaelik
ArchDemon of Rage
Posts: 14757
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by Kaelik »

radthemad4 wrote:
Kaelik wrote:They both look like they won't be any fun to play, but whatever.
Swiss army cudgel allows the use of any weapon as any other weapon. With a Jester dip (they don't take non proficiency penalties or weapon size penalties) I basically get to use all the exotic weapons for free (and some have interesting abilities). I can grab someone as an attack action by emulating a mancatcher, pincer staff or sharktooth staff for improved grab, kick them twice using boots as boot blades, and then use them as a net or make ranged trip attacks with them (glot from Frostburn) or launch them straight up into the air as if firing from a Composite Greatbow.

Bag Full of Knickknacks gives me 750 GP (at current level) of floating wealth each day, so if I ever need say,shark repellent or whatever, I just happen to have it.
Oh. That is stupid. So you are saying that you can pull out a dagger, and use that dagger as literally every weapon in the game. Also, then why do you need bag of knick nacks if you can shoot people out of a dagger bow.

And also, no you can't. Like, I'm not saying that I okay the absurdly stupid dagger bow concept, where you shoot a dagger at someone with a dagger and it hits them 1000ft away, but even if I did okay that, under exactly zero situations would I let you just declare things improvised weapons. WTF. You don't get to declare that a castle is your improvised weapon and then shoot it into the sun. You don't get to declare that a person is your weapon and then no save shoot them into a volcano.
DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?
The U.S. isn't a democracy and if you think it is, you are a rube.

That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
Grek
Prince
Posts: 3114
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 10:37 pm

Post by Grek »

Magic Item questions/requests:

Is the "Always round up" rule from BoG in effect?
Can I pretend that Pyrotechnics has the [Fire] descriptor for the purposes of a Fire Mage using a Staff of it?
You said no minions. Would the BoG "Natural" enhancement that summons a single animal be OK? I mostly want it to set off traps/carry my swag/have a flying mount rather than to have it do any fighting.
Chamomile wrote:Grek is a national treasure.
User avatar
Kaelik
ArchDemon of Rage
Posts: 14757
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by Kaelik »

Grek wrote:Magic Item questions/requests:

Is the "Always round up" rule from BoG in effect?
Can I pretend that Pyrotechnics has the [Fire] descriptor for the purposes of a Fire Mage using a Staff of it?
You said no minions. Would the BoG "Natural" enhancement that summons a single animal be OK? I mostly want it to set off traps/carry my swag/have a flying mount rather than to have it do any fighting.
Yes. Sure? I guess. Like, if you have disposable pets that can be okay.
DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?
The U.S. isn't a democracy and if you think it is, you are a rube.

That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
radthemad4
Duke
Posts: 2073
Joined: Mon Nov 18, 2013 8:20 pm

Post by radthemad4 »

Yeah, that ability badly needs more restrictions... Sorry about that, I went somewhat crazy pondering the implications of the wording.

I'm going with Mage and taking three spheres in illusion as I like at will Shadow Conjuration. Anyway, so SLA users can just apply all the metamagics they take from your errata for free? My guess is that it'd be limited by my HD, e.g. I can't currently metamagic Shadow Conjuration, Invisibility Sphere max +1, Mirror Image max +2, Major Image/Magic Missile max +3, etc. but I'd like some clarification.
Last edited by radthemad4 on Thu Feb 19, 2015 5:33 am, edited 2 times in total.
Grek
Prince
Posts: 3114
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 10:37 pm

Post by Grek »

You get to apply up to 1/2 HD in metamagic increases that you have the feats for to your SLAs.
Chamomile wrote:Grek is a national treasure.
User avatar
Kaelik
ArchDemon of Rage
Posts: 14757
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by Kaelik »

radthemad4 wrote:Yeah, that ability badly needs more restrictions... Sorry about that, I went somewhat crazy pondering the implications of the wording.

I'm going with Mage and taking three spheres in illusion as I like at will Shadow Conjuration. Anyway, so SLA users can just apply all the metamagics they take from your errata for free? My guess is that it'd be limited by my HD, e.g. I can't currently metamagic Shadow Conjuration, Invisibility Sphere max +1, Mirror Image max +2, Major Image/Magic Missile max +3, etc. but I'd like some clarification.
A) pretty sure the metamagic rules for SLAs are spelled out.
B) How are you starting with three spheres.
DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?
The U.S. isn't a democracy and if you think it is, you are a rube.

That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
Grek
Prince
Posts: 3114
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 10:37 pm

Post by Grek »

Hicks Mage gets a sphere at levels 1, 2, 5, 8, 11, 14, 17 and 20. At level seven, that's three spheres.
Chamomile wrote:Grek is a national treasure.
User avatar
Kaelik
ArchDemon of Rage
Posts: 14757
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by Kaelik »

Grek wrote:Hicks Mage gets a sphere at levels 1, 2, 5, 8, 11, 14, 17 and 20. At level seven, that's three spheres.
Oh yeah, I completely missed the level 1 and 2 sphere, because it is such a weird dumb thing to do. Meh. Carry on.
DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?
The U.S. isn't a democracy and if you think it is, you are a rube.

That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
radthemad4
Duke
Posts: 2073
Joined: Mon Nov 18, 2013 8:20 pm

Post by radthemad4 »

Would the Adventurer be okay if he can't wield people, buildings, castles, abstract concepts like love and justice, etc. and uses thematically similar enough weapons when mimicking something? e.g. using a shortbow as a composite greatbow, rocks as orcish shotputs, spiked gauntlets for everything melee, etc. Bag Full of Knick Knacks grants quickdraw so switching weapons won't be a problem. Taking the Veteran of the War Background grants 3 exotic weapon proficiencies at level 1 and I get one more at each level, so I don't think I'll need a Jester Dip. A Monk Dip would be nice for a natural slam, and ignoring DR on all weapons.

Edit: Would a magic item that grants pounce be okay?

Also interested in this feat for wielding people:Foe Wielder (Combat)
You like to club people. With other people.
Benefit: You are considered proficient with living creatures (including constructs and undead), and gain a +2 bonus on attack and damage rolls when using them as weapons. Damage is 2d6 for a Medium creature, and you add their natural armour bonus (or armour bonus if worn, whichever is greater) to the damage.
BAB:
+1 Your reach extends by five feet per size category beyond Medium that the wielded creature is. Additionally, you may elect for the wielded creature to take damage equal to that dealt to the target.

+6 Any foe struck by a creature you wield must succeed at a Balance check opposed by your attack roll, or fall prone. You may also throw living creatures, with a ten foot range increment. They land prone and both them and the target take an additional 1d6 damage.

+11 Whether the wielded creature wishes to or not, you may force them to make a full attack against one target you strike with them, once per round. They use Expertise and Power Attack the same amount that you do. When thrown, they automatically make a bullrush attempt, attacking everyone in the path, but still fall prone nonetheless.

+16 You may throw the creature to hit an area in a splash attack - designate a number of squares equal to their space, all foes in the area must make a Reflex save with a DC equal to your attack roll, or be hit. Additionally, when you hit someone in melee with another creature who has at least two hands (or other grappling limbs) free, you may force them to grab their target, adding even more to your reach. You may continue this indefinitely, up to your normal weight limit, and may disarm all except the first by making a line attack (equal to their combined height). This line attack deals their combined hit dice in d6 of damage, and is negated by a Ref save (DC equals your attack roll).

Tentative Mage Sheet WIP
Last edited by radthemad4 on Thu Feb 19, 2015 10:39 pm, edited 5 times in total.
Koumei
Serious Badass
Posts: 13871
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
Location: South Ausfailia

Post by Koumei »

I just want to point out that Foe Wielder is really designed for things like Disgaeagame that are supposed to be silly, with people doing weird crap.

Consider whether that seems to be the kind of thing for which Kaelik is going.

Anyway, I'd pipe in with the desire to play an Elemental Siphon, if only to force Kaelik to do some of the prestige classes for that, but D&D games tend to get pretty fast post-rates which overwhelms me, and also the class involves a fair amount of Immediate Action stuff, which is a pain in the ass for PbP.
Count Arioch the 28th wrote:There is NOTHING better than lesbians. Lesbians make everything better.
radthemad4
Duke
Posts: 2073
Joined: Mon Nov 18, 2013 8:20 pm

Post by radthemad4 »

Yeah, good point. I'll try to keep things somewhat sensible and not request that. I think Swiss Army Cudgel could still fly in a non silly game if I flavor it as using different techniques.
User avatar
OgreBattle
King
Posts: 6820
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2011 9:33 am

Post by OgreBattle »

I'm interested, I like "a big thing appeared, go inside and look for treasure" premises. Will roll up some kind of fighting-man character. Probably something straightforward like a human Samurai lvl7.

How do you handle interrupt actions and confirmations in PbP though? It would be annoying for everyone to have to wait for me to say "Yeah I Kiai" or "I iajutsu!" By the way is there a list of Tome approved weapons somewhere, were there new weapons added? I just want to use a gigantic two handed weapon:
Image
I figure my feats would be...
-Combat School
-Monkey Grip
-Martial Style (that's the feat that lets you choose two monk styles to use as a single stance right? I think Koumei wrote it)
-???

Is there also an alternate rule to the critical hit effect of the Samurai? I'd rather use something other than a pick or scythe without feeling like I'm below expected performance.
Last edited by OgreBattle on Thu Feb 19, 2015 11:03 am, edited 7 times in total.
radthemad4
Duke
Posts: 2073
Joined: Mon Nov 18, 2013 8:20 pm

Post by radthemad4 »

Grek, Josh_Kablack revised the Fire Mage somewhat so you might be interested in giving that a look. Also, Fire Bolt is an attack action so you might be able to TWF it but I'm not sure about that.
OgreBattle wrote:-Martial Style (that's the feat that lets you choose two monk styles to use as a single stance right? I think Koumei wrote it)
There is such a thing? Also, you might want to check out Red_Rob's Buster Weapon feat
Grek
Prince
Posts: 3114
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 10:37 pm

Post by Grek »

TWF in Tome specifically requires that you use a weapon for the off hand attacks. So while I could probably duel wield fire bolts and a flaming whip or something, doing so means a net loss in damage because I'd be hitting less often. As for the updated version of the class, I'll leave it up to Kaelik which they want me to use. I'm not going to say no to having my HD and saves go up for no reason, but I don't really feel like I need it either.
Chamomile wrote:Grek is a national treasure.
User avatar
Kaelik
ArchDemon of Rage
Posts: 14757
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by Kaelik »

radthemad4 wrote:Would the Adventurer be okay if he can't wield people, buildings, castles, abstract concepts like love and justice, etc. and uses thematically similar enough weapons when mimicking something? e.g. using a shortbow as a composite greatbow, rocks as orcish shotputs, spiked gauntlets for everything melee, etc. Bag Full of Knick Knacks grants quickdraw so switching weapons won't be a problem. Taking the Veteran of the War Background grants 3 exotic weapon proficiencies at level 1 and I get one more at each level, so I don't think I'll need a Jester Dip. A Monk Dip would be nice for a natural slam, and ignoring DR on all weapons.

Edit: Would a magic item that grants pounce be okay?

Also interested in this feat for wielding people:Foe Wielder (Combat)
You like to club people. With other people.
Benefit: You are considered proficient with living creatures (including constructs and undead), and gain a +2 bonus on attack and damage rolls when using them as weapons. Damage is 2d6 for a Medium creature, and you add their natural armour bonus (or armour bonus if worn, whichever is greater) to the damage.
BAB:
+1 Your reach extends by five feet per size category beyond Medium that the wielded creature is. Additionally, you may elect for the wielded creature to take damage equal to that dealt to the target.

+6 Any foe struck by a creature you wield must succeed at a Balance check opposed by your attack roll, or fall prone. You may also throw living creatures, with a ten foot range increment. They land prone and both them and the target take an additional 1d6 damage.

+11 Whether the wielded creature wishes to or not, you may force them to make a full attack against one target you strike with them, once per round. They use Expertise and Power Attack the same amount that you do. When thrown, they automatically make a bullrush attempt, attacking everyone in the path, but still fall prone nonetheless.

+16 You may throw the creature to hit an area in a splash attack - designate a number of squares equal to their space, all foes in the area must make a Reflex save with a DC equal to your attack roll, or be hit. Additionally, when you hit someone in melee with another creature who has at least two hands (or other grappling limbs) free, you may force them to grab their target, adding even more to your reach. You may continue this indefinitely, up to your normal weight limit, and may disarm all except the first by making a line attack (equal to their combined height). This line attack deals their combined hit dice in d6 of damage, and is negated by a Ref save (DC equals your attack roll).

Tentative Mage Sheet WIP
Why are you still trying to fiddle a way to jam a class I have expressed apathy bordering on annoyance for and a concept I explicitly said was fucking retarded on me if you are making a Mage. Pick one. Either you will never give up on your plan to shoot people into the sun by firing the from a bow made of a single dagger using that same dagger as the string as it quantum fluctuates, and there is no point in making a Mage, or you are willing to give it up at some point, and that point was reached when I explicitly told you that was super fucking dumb and I don't want it in my game because it sounds fucking stupid, and you should stop asking me about it.

Also your mage sheet has no skills.
Koumei wrote:I just want to point out that Foe Wielder is really designed for things like Disgaeagame that are supposed to be silly, with people doing weird crap.

Consider whether that seems to be the kind of thing for which Kaelik is going.
Please do this.
OgreBattle wrote:I'm interested, I like "a big thing appeared, go inside and look for treasure" premises. Will roll up some kind of fighting-man character. Probably something straightforward like a human Samurai lvl7.

How do you handle interrupt actions and confirmations in PbP though? It would be annoying for everyone to have to wait for me to say "Yeah I Kiai" or "I iajutsu!" By the way is there a list of Tome approved weapons somewhere, were there new weapons added? I just want to use a gigantic two handed weapon:
Image
I figure my feats would be...
-Combat School
-Monkey Grip
-Martial Style (that's the feat that lets you choose two monk styles to use as a single stance right? I think Koumei wrote it)
-???

Is there also an alternate rule to the critical hit effect of the Samurai? I'd rather use something other than a pick or scythe without feeling like I'm below expected performance.
I am inclined to say no to Martial Style absent convincing reason otherwise, that sounds fucking horrible, since it sure sounds like just taking the Monks stuff and handing it to everyone for no goddam reason. If you want to piss me off with multiple save or no actions on every one of your attacks you need to earn it. Also, could you link Monkey Grip? Or is that a non-Community feat that I just forgot about?

No alternate crit rules, but you can have a mechanical scythe that looks like any goddam weapon you want honestly.
Grek wrote:TWF in Tome specifically requires that you use a weapon for the off hand attacks. So while I could probably duel wield fire bolts and a flaming whip or something, doing so means a net loss in damage because I'd be hitting less often. As for the updated version of the class, I'll leave it up to Kaelik which they want me to use. I'm not going to say no to having my HD and saves go up for no reason, but I don't really feel like I need it either.
Pretty sure that RAW is you can dual wield fire bolts with themselves, but if you are going to combine that with alpha metamagic I'm going to have to suddenly give everything a globe of spell immunity to make it even vaguely threatening. Please don't do that.

But you can totally use Josh's class if you want.
Last edited by Kaelik on Fri Feb 20, 2015 2:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?
The U.S. isn't a democracy and if you think it is, you are a rube.

That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
User avatar
OgreBattle
King
Posts: 6820
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2011 9:33 am

Post by OgreBattle »

I've been looking at the DnD wiki's combat feat section:
http://dnd-wiki.org/wiki/Combat_(3.5e_Feat_Type)

which has:
http://dnd-wiki.org/wiki/Monkey_Grip_(3.5e_Feat)
It lists Thundergod Cid as creator

+0: You can wield weapons up to one size larger than normal with a -2 penalty to attack rolls.
+1: You no longer sustain penalties to attack rolls for wielding a weapon because of its size (you are still limited to the size of weapon you can wield). In addition, you may now add one and a half times your Strength modifier to the damage of any one-handed oversized weapon you wield and twice your Strength modifier to damage for a two-handed oversized weapon. Lastly, you may always choose to deal bludgeoning damage when wielding an oversized weapon regardless of the weapon's standard damage type.
+6: You may now wield weapons two sizes larger than normal, and you gain reach equal to that of a creature with the same size category as your weapon.
+11: You may now wield weapons three sizes larger than normal. Whenever you make a melee attack, you may also choose to attempt to hit a square adjacent to the target struck, with the creature‘s AC measured against the same attack roll. A creature cannot be hit more than once with a single attack roll by this ability.
+16: You may now wield weapons four sizes larger than normal. As an immediate action, you may also use your weapon to shield yourself, gaining total cover from a single attack or effect of your choice.
Last edited by OgreBattle on Fri Feb 20, 2015 3:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Kaelik
ArchDemon of Rage
Posts: 14757
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by Kaelik »

I confess to it being way more work than I want to put into figuring out to figure out how weapon sizes and and person sizes interact. Can you just tell me how much reach you have at level 7 and level 11 and save me the trouble? But preliminary, sure that's fine.
DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?
The U.S. isn't a democracy and if you think it is, you are a rube.

That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
Post Reply