...You Lost Me wrote:Are you trolling me, or do you actually expect people to play wizards that prepare a bunch of copies of identical spells with nothing to supplement them in the way of alternate tactics or things that are useful outside combat?
At level 1, when the alternative is to sit there doing nothing for entire combats? Yes. I expect them to play in a way that allows them to contribute when they are fighting.
If only there were some kind of way to make it so they could also have other spells in addition to contributing in combat. If only.
...You Lost Me wrote:The Kaelik Wizard will get whatever level 3 spells the regular wizard gets, but in every fight and all day long and on top of anything else they feel like casting given 15 minutes downtime.
And it would really suck if the Wizard could both contribute to combat, and also have outside of combat utility. And I definitely haven't designed literally every class I've ever made to do that while criticizing the Tome Fighter for not doing that.
For fucks sake here you go:
1) Have the Kaelik Wizard be able to cast the spell Color Spray.
2) Have the Kaelik Wizard not spend an entire combat or more sitting in the corner playing smashbrothers.
3) Have the Kaelik Wizard have anything to do outside of combat.
4) Have the Kaelik Wizard be exactly the same as the Wizard at level 1.
Pick three of those. You can only have three. You can have any three you want, but you can only have three. HINT: Get rid of number 4 because it is garbage that doesn't add anything to the game.
...You Lost Me wrote:In response to your no true scotsman: I am a person who frequents this forum. I only knew 1 of the methods of getting extra spells that you listed, and when I play wizards (Tome or not, DM or not) I do not look up ACFs to make them. I also play at level 1, and usually up to 5. What a wonderful census we have taken.
Occluded Sun and ISP post on this forum. We are still Commies.
You asked me what I was thinking designing the class, part of what I was thinking is that I'm not fucking designing the goddam class for people to play Level 1 Only Final Destination. If you do, you can either not play this class, or just invoke the special You Lost Me Rule, where once per day the Kaelik Wizard player has to leave the room for a combat and his character hides in the corner while the real manly men win the fight, because things need to be balanced against Core classes goddam it. And then, when your party gets to level 13 they can Planar Bind and Wish for a Ring of Wishes, because everything needs to be balanced with Core goddam it.
...You Lost Me wrote:Tome material is designed to hang around the level of balance of a wizard. If you have a class that is stronger than the wizard, that's not the same as a class that's stronger than the fighter, because the level of balance of a fighter isn't the same as that of a wizard. I assumed you understood this, but I guess I can go over it slowly if you need help.
Here is a list of objective power ups for the Wizard at all levels.
It doesn't matter if that was what the Tomes were designed around, because they don't do that. They give Wizards shadow armies for a feat, people make metamagic feats all the time. And the Races of War classes break the RNG so hard that it ceases to exist. Nor frankly, were the Tomes designed to balance everything at level 1 with Wizards, because in fact, Frank has said on multiple occasions something to effect that:
At level 1, everyone is equal because the Wizard can AoE save or die, and the Fighter can kill one person a round, so we made that true at higher levels too. Now obviously, the Tome Fighter is more powerful at level 1 than the PHB fighter, so based on that same fucking logic, the Core Wizard needs a buff at level 1.
Seriously, I cannot stress this enough:
PICK THREE:
1) Have the Kaelik Wizard be able to cast the spell Color Spray.
2) Have the Kaelik Wizard not spend an entire combat or more sitting in the corner playing smashbrothers.
3) Have the Kaelik Wizard have anything to do outside of combat.
4) Have the Kaelik Wizard be exactly the same as the Wizard at level 1.