The Gaming Den Forum Index The Gaming Den
Welcome to the Gaming Den.
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Google
 Search WWW   Search tgdmb.com 
The Kaelik Wizard
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Gaming Den Forum Index -> It's My Own Invention...
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Kaelik
ArchDemon of Rage


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 12022

PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 7:16 pm    Post subject: The Kaelik Wizard Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Kaelik Wizard
"I heard you like Wizard's, but wanted to create a level 10 character in less than an hour. Have I got something for you."

So a long time ago in a galaxy far far away we were talking about Wizards and mechanics and spells for reasons I don't quite remember but that were vaguely about preparation based casting an infinite uses and/or combat versus noncombat spells being from different or the same pools, and I explained a Wizard based class that was simple and I thought workable. The conversation moved on or something, but I periodically remembered that description, and I kept wanting to make that class. So this is that class.

Prestige Classes: Prestige Classes advance Kaelik Wizard Casting, but do not grant the additional listed class features. In practice this mean you PrC out after level 5 unless you are creating a level 20 character. A Kaelik Wizard can also qualify for any PrC that an equal level Wizard could qualify for because of his spellcasting.

Alignment: Wizard's can be any alignment.

Races: Any Race can make a Wizard.

Starting Gold: 6d4x10 gp (100 gold) plus spellbook.

Starting Age: As Wizard.

Hit Die: d4
Class Skills: The Kaelik Wizard's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Appraise (Int), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Dechipher Script (Int), Forgery(Int), Knowledge (Any) (Int), Search (Int), Spellcraft (Int), and Speak Language.
Skills/Level: 2 + Intelligence Bonus
BAB: Bad (1/2), Saves: Fort: Poor; Reflex: Poor; Will: Good

Level, Benefit
1 Spellbooking (15 minutes), Spellcasting (Immediate), Spellcasting (Durational), Spellcasting (Cantrips)
2 Summon Familiar, Scribe Scroll,
3 Metamagic Interaction
4 Spellcasting (Permanent or Multiple Days)
5 Craft Magic Items, Shorter Durations
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20 Archmage

All of the following are Class Features of the Kaelik Wizard class:
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Kaelik Wizards are proficient with the club, dagger, heavy crossbow, light crossbow, and quarterstaff, but not with any type of armor or shield. Armor of any type interferes with a wizardís movements, which can cause her spells with somatic components to fail.

Special Saving Throw (Ex): Any saving throw triggered by any spellcasting method the Kaelik Wizard uses is always equal to 10+1/2 character level+Int modifier, regardless of spell level.

Spellbooking (15 minutes): A Kaelik Wizard begins play with a spellbook that is exactly like a Core Wizard's Spellbook. At every level up she can write in two additional spells to the spellbook of the highest level she can cast. The highest spell level she can cast is exactly the same as a Core Wizard with the same number of class levels. She can also add more spells to this spellbook in the same way a Core Wizard can.

At any time and for any reason, with 15 minutes of uninterrupted reading a spell out of a spellbook, the Kaelik Wizard can cast that spell immediately at the end of the 15 minutes. The Kaelik Wizard can even do that with someone else's spellbook too, or a looted spellbook. That is 150 consecutive full round actions of reading, followed by the spell being cast in the very next round (or rounds for longer casting time spells).

However, if the duration of the spell is anything longer than 15 minutes, the spell's duration is reduced to 15 minutes.

Spellcasting (Immediate): A Kaelik Wizard starts at level 1 with 4 spell slots, and gains one spell slot at ever level divisible by 3, ending at level 18-19 with 10 spell slots. At the cost of 15 minutes of preparation, a Kaelik Wizard can prepare a spell one per each slot from any spellbook(s) she has access to. A Kaelik Wizard may not prepare the same spell more than once. Once a spell is in a slot, the Kaelik Wizard can expend that spell from the slot to begin casting that spell instantly, as if she had just read and mumbled for 15 minutes over a spellbook.

If the duration of the spell is anything longer than 15 minutes, the spell's duration is reduced to 15 minutes.

Spellcasting (Durational): A Kaelik Wizard may cast some spells with a duration longer than 15 minutes. These spells must have a duration that is 10 minutes per level, hours per level, or have a duration longer than 30 minutes. Any spell which requires concentration may not be cast in this way. A Kaelik Wizard may cast one such spell in 15 minutes, or she may cast as many durational spells as she is capable of maintaining in one 15 minute block that is part of the same time used to prepare immediate action spells. After casting the spell, the duration becomes permanent so long as the Kaelik Wizard expends a duration slot to keep the spell active.

The Kaelik Wizard gains one level 1 duration slot at level 1. At each level that a Kaelik Wizard gains access to a new spell level, she gains a duration slot of that spell level, to a maximum of 9 duration slots total, one for each spell level at level 17.

A Kaelik Wizard may cease to use a duration slot to maintain a spell as a swift action, and at that time the spell immediately ends.

Spellcasting(Cantrips): A Kaelik Wizard may Pick 2 Cantrips from the Wizard list each time he prepares his Immediate Spellcasting. He casts those Cantrips at will. Magic Missile is not a cantrip.

Summon Familiar: At level 2 a Kaelik Wizard gains a Familiar the same as a Sorcerer or Wizard. This can also be traded for all the weird things that any Wizard or Sorcerer could trade a Familiar for. The Kaelik Wizard does not need to meet the qualifications for this swap, so she can get Abrupt Jaunt even though she cannot specialize, and she can get Draconic Heritage or a Drakken Familiar without having the Dragonblood subtype.

Scribe Scroll: At level 2 a Kaelik Wizard gains Scribe Scroll as a bonus feat.

Metamagic Interaction: At level 3 a Kaelik Wizard gains the ability to cast level 2 spells. At this time, it should be made clear that any metamagic effect applied to a durational spell requires a higher durational slot to be used. In additional, at level 3, all Kaelik Wizard spell slots are considered level 2 spell slots. This increase will occur again each time the Kaelik Wizard gains access to a higher level slot. So a Kaelik Wizard could choose to prepare a Silent Color Spray at this time.

Extending or Persisting a spell can bring it over the 30 minute duration that makes it capable of being applied to a duration slot, however, the spell must use a duration slot that is sufficiently high level to accommodate the new spell level.

Any method of applying a metamagic feat without increasing the spell level, such as Sudden Metamagic, a Metamagic Rod, Incantatrix Cooperative Metamagic or Metamagic Effect, or Divine Metamagic does not work on a Kaelik Wizard spell. This is distinguished from a +0 increase, such as Invisible Spell, which can still be applied.

Spellcasting (Permanent or Multiple Days): At level 4 a Kaelik Wizard gains the ability to cast Permanent spells and spells with a duration of at least two days as a normal Wizard. By spending 15 minutes reading the spell in his spellbook, he may begin casting a spell with a duration longer than two days. This spell will last it's normal duration.

Craft Magic Items (Su): At level 5 a Kaelik Wizard can craft any magic item as if he had the associated crafting feat. Nothing else about crafting is changed. This has the effect crafting has in your game, whether that is doubling WBL, guaranteeing the party has the items they want without changing total loot value, or giving them piles of low magic items that they can't all use at once because of attunement slots.

Shorter Durations: At level 5 a Kaelik Wizard can now use Duration slots to make permanent spells with a duration of 1 minute per level in addition to the other stated durations.

Archmage (Ex): At level 20 a Kaelik Wizard becomes a really good Kaelik Wizard. She gains an additional duration slot of each level of spell, she gains 10 additional spell slots, giving her 20 total slots to prepare, and she reduces her spellbook casting time to 10 minutes.
_________________
"DSMatticus" wrote:
Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?
That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
Click here to see the hidden message (It might contain spoilers)


Last edited by Kaelik on Sun Apr 02, 2017 3:27 pm; edited 5 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Foxwarrior
Knight-Baron


Joined: 11 Nov 2010
Posts: 985
Location: RPG City, USA

PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

How is this supposed to take less than an hour? You still have to pick a full assortment of spells, feats, and items, just like with a Core Wizard.
_________________
www.gempunks.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kaelik
ArchDemon of Rage


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 12022

PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Foxwarrior wrote:
How is this supposed to take less than an hour? You still have to pick a full assortment of spells, feats, and items, just like with a Core Wizard.


I assume you are using Tome items, so you don't have to WBL account, and then write down 9 attack spells that are worth having, whatever 6-10 utility spells you really care about, and one buff for each level, maybe two.
_________________
"DSMatticus" wrote:
Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?
That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
Click here to see the hidden message (It might contain spoilers)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Reynard
Apprentice


Joined: 30 Oct 2014
Posts: 85

PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

What's wrong with Thaumaturge?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kaelik
ArchDemon of Rage


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 12022

PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Reynard wrote:
What's wrong with Thaumaturge?


spells per day, spontaneous casting, interacting zero percent with buffs, being nothing like this class?
_________________
"DSMatticus" wrote:
Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?
That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
Click here to see the hidden message (It might contain spoilers)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Reynard
Apprentice


Joined: 30 Oct 2014
Posts: 85

PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 12:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

> being nothing like this class?
Only because you utterly fail at "simple" part in the "simple workable spellcaster" this wizard of yours is supposed to be.

Thaumaturge is actually simple (you can give this class to a complete newbie or make a 10+ level character yourself in less than 60 seconds if using Tome, or 2-3 minutes if buying equipment) and still workable - stays relevant come hell or high water.

However, in your case, player (or GM) still needs to jump through all the hoops of standard spellcaster book-keeping/dumpster-diving (choose spells, both known and prepared), and then, on top of it, think about some weird stuff, like should "Water to Acid" or "Flesh to Salt" be considered "durational" or not, and how would this "durational" shtick work with Explosive Runes. What about Chained Explosive Runes?

So it's not a simple spellcaster. It might be semi-workable (buff ideas aren't bad, even if wording and execution are atrocious [1]), but it is not simple.

[1] - I recommend Incarnum system for managing buffs.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kaelik
ArchDemon of Rage


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 12022

PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 12:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Reynard wrote:
Only because you utterly fail at "simple" part in the "simple workable spellcaster" this wizard of yours is supposed to be.

Thaumaturge is actually simple (you can give this class to a complete newbie or make a 10+ level character yourself in less than 60 seconds if using Tome, or 2-3 minutes if buying equipment) and still workable - stays relevant come hell or high water.


You are a fucking idiot. By that claim the simplest class in the world is:

(Generate Spontaneous Class Features During Combat)

Which fucking stupid. Yes, the thaumaturge can be created in less time than other classes, because it deliberately and intentionally pushes all the complex decision making into during the game itself.

Or, alternatively not, because to play a Thaumaturge you have to first read the entire PHB spell section, and so that takes a really long time, hours probably, so man it take forever to make such a character.

You are pretending that simplicity is about decisions in a specific time and place, and then picking the one that shunts all the decisions to both sides of that time and place, they are still there.

But more importantly, I specifically said this was a simple workable Wizard idea. Which means you need both a spellbook and spell preparation. So if your response is "just play a class without a spellbook or spell preparation, and that will be simpler" I wonder why you didn't just say "Tome Barbarian" instead of Thamaturge.

The thaumaturge plays nothing like this class in almost any way at all quite aside from you apparently thinking I wanted to play a Wizard without a spellbook or spell preparation, also known as a sorcerer.

It tells me you saw the fact that either one could cast teleport without knowing they needed it at the beginning of the day, and thought that was the defining feature of the both classes, instead of a side effect of what both classes actually do.

Reynard wrote:
However, in your case, player (or GM) still needs to jump through all the hoops of standard spellcaster book-keeping/dumpster-diving (choose spells, both known and prepared), and then, on top of it, think about some weird stuff, like should "Water to Acid" or "Flesh to Salt" be considered "durational" or not, and how would this "durational" shtick work with Explosive Runes. What about Chained Explosive Runes?


Nope, it is really easy to see that Explosive Runes is just not really used by this class, just like Permanent Image isn't, because it is one of those spells with a duration that works for other people and not this class.

Nor do I require the DM to think about Flesh to Salt or Water to Acid. I just make a point of, when referencing a list 5000 entries long, some of which will be written after I reference it, to mention the possibility. I pretty much explicitly say that I don't think any core spell needs to be worried about, so if fucking flesh to stone is fine why the god fuck would salt be a problem?
_________________
"DSMatticus" wrote:
Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?
That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
Click here to see the hidden message (It might contain spoilers)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Red_Rob
Prince


Joined: 17 Jul 2009
Posts: 2553

PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 12:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Reynard wrote:
Thaumaturge is actually simple (you can give this class to a complete newbie or make a 10+ level character yourself in less than 60 seconds if using Tome, or 2-3 minutes if buying equipment) and still workable


Simple? Really? You want to give a class with an option space of over 30 individual spells every turn at level 1 to a newbie? I guess you've never seen a new player agonising over which of their 5 spells to cast in a round as a level 1 Wizard. Wait until you see a Thaumaturge player try to remember whether Daze Monster is Mind Affecting or how many HD Deeper Slumber affects in the middle of a combat round.

This class looks like a workable alternative to a Wizard - basically short cutting to what Wizards do anyway, prepare a decent number of level appropriate combat spells and cast anything with a long duration when they have some time to spare.
_________________
Simplified Tome Armor. Tome item system and expanded Wish Economy rules.

"Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have found out the exact measure of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them, and these will continue till they are resisted with either words or blows, or with both. The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress."


Last edited by Red_Rob on Mon Feb 16, 2015 12:59 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
...You Lost Me
Duke


Joined: 10 Jan 2011
Posts: 1715

PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 5:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Just to clarify, are duration slots are tied to spell level? At level 3, I can persist a level 1 spell and a level 2 spell but not two level 2 spells, correct?

Is the spell list the sor/wiz spell list, or is it everything?

Is it possible to walk and read at the same time or do those full-round actions require total concentration on the book? What if I get stabbed during the 149th full round?

Also is this a reworked version of the Invoker?
_________________
DSMatticus wrote:
Again, look at this fucking map you moron. Take your finger and trace each country's coast, then trace its claim line. Even you - and I say that as someone who could not think less of your intelligence - should be able to tell that one of these things is not like the other.
Kaelik wrote:
I invented saying mean things about Tussock.


Last edited by ...You Lost Me on Mon Feb 16, 2015 5:16 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Reynard
Apprentice


Joined: 30 Oct 2014
Posts: 85

PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Red_Rob:
> You want to give a class with an option space of over 30 individual spells every turn at level 1 to a newbie?
Done it twice (one started at level 6). IMO - worked good enough. The best part about Thaumaturge was that it is more forgiving than druid.

>I guess you've never seen a new player agonising over which of their 5 spells to cast in a round as a level 1 Wizard.
Wizard 1 is 3-4 spells per day.

Both players chose a few spells they stuck to, sometimes casting spells more experienced players recommended them to cast. Didn't seem to be overly traumatizing experience.


Last edited by Reynard on Mon Feb 16, 2015 2:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kaelik
ArchDemon of Rage


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 12022

PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

...You Lost Me wrote:
Just to clarify, are duration slots are tied to spell level? At level 3, I can persist a level 1 spell and a level 2 spell but not two level 2 spells, correct?

Is the spell list the sor/wiz spell list, or is it everything?

Is it possible to walk and read at the same time or do those full-round actions require total concentration on the book? What if I get stabbed during the 149th full round?

Also is this a reworked version of the Invoker?


Yes tied to level, so you get one first level spell and one second level spell.

It is the Wizard list.

I don't think there are any rules for moving while taking full round actions, maybe if you have a way to move as a swift action. If someone stabs you you make concentration check and probably lose the spell. It is very obviously not something you should be doing in combat.

No.
_________________
"DSMatticus" wrote:
Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?
That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
Click here to see the hidden message (It might contain spoilers)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Prak
Serious Badass


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 16084

PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Reynard wrote:
Red_Rob:
> You want to give a class with an option space of over 30 individual spells every turn at level 1 to a newbie?
Done it twice (one started at level 6). IMO - worked good enough. The best part about Thaumaturge was that it is more forgiving than druid.


_________________
Dean, on Paranoia wrote:
The book is a hardbound liars paradox.


Winnah wrote:
No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.


FrankTrollman wrote:
In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Reynard
Apprentice


Joined: 30 Oct 2014
Posts: 85

PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

People are so sure you can't do that, I'm trying to be considerate of their feelings.

In my experience it was sneaks (Rogue/Factotum/Assassin) that caused most problems for the unexperienced (and everyone else).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Prak
Serious Badass


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 16084

PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I'm going to guess those newbies just cast damage spells 90% of the time, and only had to actually think about what they were doing when sneaks came up and suddenly they needed to know a spell that wasn't just an arcane firearm.
_________________
Dean, on Paranoia wrote:
The book is a hardbound liars paradox.


Winnah wrote:
No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.


FrankTrollman wrote:
In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kaelik
ArchDemon of Rage


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 12022

PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 11:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

No. I've met plenty of people who if I were going to give a class to as a newbie, I would give the Thaumaturge, because they are the kind of anal retentive super ocd fuckers like me who I can count on to read the entire PHB and DMG before the first game, and remember it, and make good decisions.

But I also know those people like to play that way, and the one who I did start playing with insisted on making a Wizard his first game.

There are people who can handle a thaum right away, those people can also handle this Wizard right away, with not much more work, or even less.
_________________
"DSMatticus" wrote:
Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?
That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
Click here to see the hidden message (It might contain spoilers)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Reynard
Apprentice


Joined: 30 Oct 2014
Posts: 85

PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 12:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Prak :
> I'm going to guess those newbies just cast damage spells 90% of the time, and only had to actually think about what they were doing when sneaks came up and suddenly they needed to know a spell that wasn't just an arcane firearm.
Different games. And not ambushed by sneaks, but tried playing sneaks.

There was this mindset that you could just hide in the middle of well-lit room or wherever you are. Also, triggering sneak attacks was a bit of a problem.


Kaelik :
> those people can also handle this Wizard right away, with not much more work, or even less.
One thing is to plan for unknown situation, the other is to make a decision knowing what problem you need to solve. The choice is much easier in the latter case.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
...You Lost Me
Duke


Joined: 10 Jan 2011
Posts: 1715

PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 5:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

6 spells looks like a lot. The Kaelik Wizard gets things like color spray and glitterdust 6 times per encounter, while the wizard's daily limits relegate him to using 1 highest-level spell per encounter.
_________________
DSMatticus wrote:
Again, look at this fucking map you moron. Take your finger and trace each country's coast, then trace its claim line. Even you - and I say that as someone who could not think less of your intelligence - should be able to tell that one of these things is not like the other.
Kaelik wrote:
I invented saying mean things about Tussock.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Hicks
Duke


Joined: 27 Jul 2008
Posts: 1111
Location: Blytheville, AR

PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 6:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

No, the spell booking class feature prohibits preparing the same spell more than once; you must prepare six different spells. Furthermore, a PHB2 wizard can expect to have at least 3 spell slots at his highest level: one from class, one from specilization, and at least one from his ability score.

I like the class and the idea behind it, shame to prestige out after level 5, but a normal wizard was gonna do that anyway as well.
_________________
"Besides, my strong, cult like faith in the colon of the cards allows me to pull whatever I need out of my posterior!"
-Kid Radd

shadzar wrote:
those training harder get more, and training less, don't get the more.

Lokathor wrote:
Commander: Ah! Adventurers! Perfect.
Tibellus: You can tell by the lobster on my head.


Stuff I've Made
Click here to see the hidden message (It might contain spoilers)


Last edited by Hicks on Tue Feb 17, 2015 6:36 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kaelik
ArchDemon of Rage


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 12022

PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 6:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Hicks wrote:
No, the spell booking class feature prohibits preparing the same spell more than once; you must prepare six different spells. Furthermore, a PHB2 wizard can expect to have at least 3 spell slots at his highest level: one from class, one from specilization, and at least one from his ability score.

I like the class and the idea behind it, shame to prestige out after level 5, but a normal wizard was gonna do that anyway as well.


I figure if someone wants to play a Wizard, they are probably going to want to play around with one or more of the many Wizard PrCs, and I couldn't think of any way to encourage them to stay in the class aside from adding a bunch of abilities they really don't need.
_________________
"DSMatticus" wrote:
Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?
That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
Click here to see the hidden message (It might contain spoilers)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
...You Lost Me
Duke


Joined: 10 Jan 2011
Posts: 1715

PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 6:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Hicks wrote:
No, the spell booking class feature prohibits preparing the same spell more than once; you must prepare six different spells. Furthermore, a PHB2 wizard can expect to have at least 3 spell slots at his highest level: one from class, one from specilization, and at least one from his ability score.

I like the class and the idea behind it, shame to prestige out after level 5, but a normal wizard was gonna do that anyway as well.


I am a level 3 wizard. In the morning, I prepare glitterdust, daze monster, and invisibility and those are all the level 2 spells I can cast today. I hope my low-level slots are enough to cover me when my level 2 spells are depleted or don't apply.

You are a level 3 kaelik wizard. Whenever you have 15 minutes, you prepare glitterdust, daze monsters, web, invisibility, mirror image, and levitate. You can cast twice as many high-level spells as me per encounter, can refresh or tailor those to future encounters throughout the day, and that's on top of 2 permanent buff spells and anything you cast straight from your spellbook.
_________________
DSMatticus wrote:
Again, look at this fucking map you moron. Take your finger and trace each country's coast, then trace its claim line. Even you - and I say that as someone who could not think less of your intelligence - should be able to tell that one of these things is not like the other.
Kaelik wrote:
I invented saying mean things about Tussock.


Last edited by ...You Lost Me on Tue Feb 17, 2015 6:59 am; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Judging__Eagle
Prince


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 4508
Location: Lake Ontario is in my backyard; Canada

PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

This is similar to an idea I had a couple of days ago on how the D&D wizard that Gygax et. al. has never been close to what the spellcasters from Jack Vance's "Dying Earth" content.

Although, the idea that I was thinking about was more along the lines of what and how Vance described spellcasting in his literature. So, "1 spell per 2 levels" (therefore even the 'highest' level Wizard knows nine spells); also that "each spell is an encounter ending ability", and most likely "there are only 100 spells known; and thousands of lost ones" (i.e. 100 spells, probably 10-11 per spell level).

This class is, however, closer to the spirit of the Vancian spellcasting than anything since OD&D (although, more spells per level), and simpler to implement than writing 100 spells that end encounters. Which is great, because I don't feel like writing 100 "spells that end encounters", nor anything else for a game system I've lost interest in.
_________________
Click here to see the hidden message (It might contain spoilers)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kaelik
ArchDemon of Rage


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 12022

PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

...You Lost Me wrote:
I am a level 3 wizard. In the morning, I prepare glitterdust, daze monster, and invisibility and those are all the level 2 spells I can cast today. I hope my low-level slots are enough to cover me when my level 2 spells are depleted or don't apply.

You are a level 3 kaelik wizard. Whenever you have 15 minutes, you prepare glitterdust, daze monsters, web, invisibility, mirror image, and levitate. You can cast twice as many high-level spells as me per encounter, can refresh or tailor those to future encounters throughout the day, and that's on top of 2 permanent buff spells and anything you cast straight from your spellbook.


The class is clearly much stronger at level 1-4, less clearly so at 5-8, and probably about equal at 9-12 before it falls below a standard Wizard.

But if you are going to make a comparison, and least pretend to not be shit.

If you are a level 3 Wizard you should have multiple Color Sprays and Multiple Glitterdusts and/or multiple Webs. If you are stupid enough to prepare Daze Monster and invisibility at this level that is your fault. (Also odd, because you only get two level 2 spells for free on level up so you must have hunted down Daze Monster).

Also you'll not that a Kaelik Wizard who has those six spells at level 3 must have leveled up in town then spent 1200gp on getting all that into a spell book. Which is a pretty big chunk of change to waste.
_________________
"DSMatticus" wrote:
Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?
That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
Click here to see the hidden message (It might contain spoilers)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
...You Lost Me
Duke


Joined: 10 Jan 2011
Posts: 1715

PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I don't focus on things past level 5 because I don't play past then, so I guess it makes sense that a class with a huge 1-4 power spike would look really strong. But still, can you pretty please do something so the level 1 wizard isn't significantly weaker than the level 1 kaelik wizard?
_________________
DSMatticus wrote:
Again, look at this fucking map you moron. Take your finger and trace each country's coast, then trace its claim line. Even you - and I say that as someone who could not think less of your intelligence - should be able to tell that one of these things is not like the other.
Kaelik wrote:
I invented saying mean things about Tussock.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kaelik
ArchDemon of Rage


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 12022

PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

...You Lost Me wrote:
I don't focus on things past level 5 because I don't play past then, so I guess it makes sense that a class with a huge 1-4 power spike would look really strong. But still, can you pretty please do something so the level 1 wizard isn't significantly weaker than the level 1 kaelik wizard?


No. I will not write even a single word to balance level 1 characters. I will write an entire treatise on why I will not write words to balance level 1 characters before I write even a single word in a class description.

But here, how about this: A level 1 Kaelik Wizard is only slightly stronger than a level 1 Wizard.

A level 1 Wizard faces four encounters a day, and has 4 Color Sprays, or 3 Color Sprays and a Sleep, or whatever.

A level 1 Kaelik Wizard has one Color Spray and one Sleep per encounter.

So here are some combats:

1) Single big bad.
2) Lots (2-4) of little bitches.

Each of those is then modified by:

a) EL = Party level
b) EL < Party level
c) EL > Party level

1a) Both characters cast Color Spray and have a greater than 50% chance of winning the fight. If the monster makes the save, the Kaelik Wizard gets to do it again, the Wizard can often do it again but at the cost of serious resource expenditure, so probably won't. Also the Kaelik Wizard has Mage armor all the time.

2a) Both characters use Color Spray or Sleep, and single handedly win 3/4ths of the encounter or more. Kaelik Wizard gets follow up.

1b and 2b) Kaelik Wizard gets to look more impressive by being the one to win these fights that are super easily winnable anyway and not a big deal. While the Wizard probably fires a crossbow and misses a Kobold. But since the rest of the party wins this fight easily, who cares.

1c) Wizard gets to use two spells, because this fight means he doesn't have to be sad about them not doing four today, so he probably single handedly wins this fight, about 50% of the time in the first round without any extra resource expenditure. The Kaelik Wizard also gets a second go at winning the fight before having to fall back on supporting the team, unless the enemy is immune to sleep, in which case she doesn't.

2c) Basically a 1c circumstance except with a better success rate.

Is the Kaelik Wizard objectively more powerful than the Wizard at level 1 in all situations except sleep immune big bads of EL>Party level? Yes. But is he contributing vastly more? Not really. The druid with entangle and a dog could accidentally outshine both of them.
_________________
"DSMatticus" wrote:
Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?
That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
Click here to see the hidden message (It might contain spoilers)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
...You Lost Me
Duke


Joined: 10 Jan 2011
Posts: 1715

PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

The wizard gets 3 spells. He can make them all color spray or he can make them 2 color spray and 1 sleep or whatever. But in a standard day, the wizard's going to have 3-4 fights, and he needs to ration his spells so he probably only use one color spray. That has a decent chance of winning the fight on its own, but if it doesn't the wizard gets to resort to crossbows and cantrips.

The kaelik wizard gets 6 1st-level spells. Amongst those will be color spray, which he can use once per encounter (hard limit instead of soft limit), and also sleep and grease and expeditious retreat and 2 other spells he doesn't care about. In a fight, he's got the wizard's chance of taking out enemies with color spray, and doesn't get to spam it but can instead resort to sleep the next round and grease the round after that and if things are going badly he walks away at twice their speed and can prepare again. Also he has permanent mage armor. That feels like much, much more in the adventuring day.
_________________
DSMatticus wrote:
Again, look at this fucking map you moron. Take your finger and trace each country's coast, then trace its claim line. Even you - and I say that as someone who could not think less of your intelligence - should be able to tell that one of these things is not like the other.
Kaelik wrote:
I invented saying mean things about Tussock.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Gaming Den Forum Index -> It's My Own Invention... All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
Page 1 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group