Princes of the City: Anyone Want to Bite?

Whipstitch · Post by **Whipstitch** » Tue Feb 17, 2015 8:34 pm

Mostly a fan handbook is just too much fucking work. It's a point based system that uses different currency for chargen and character advancement so a lot of the min-maxing amounts to playing goofy little arbitrage mini-games where you're trying to achieve X effect as cheaply as possible. To complicate matters further, you have to buy discipline dots in order, so it's super common for disciplines to be individually cool but feature a ton of redundancy when taken together. And of course, White Wolf cranked out 3 editions plus the Dark Ages and MET rules in under a decade. Combine all that with White Wolf's inscrutable chapter titles and grudge against indexes and it's really no wonder that fan resources are rarely very complete.

Ancient History · Post by **Ancient History** » Tue Feb 17, 2015 8:57 pm

It's worse than that, because the oWoD had multiple intersecting game lines with mechanics that didn't quite stack up, and some merits/flaws were equivalent in terms of rules and costs and some were not. If you had enough points you could theoretically start the game as a Psychic Gypsy Sorcerer Kinfolk Kinain Ghoul or some shit, but that's with a lot of rusty trombone for Mister Cavern. The kitchensink dumpster-diving of the setting appeals to munchkins, but the actual setup of the system is so half-assed that any sort of effort along that line requires generous MC figuring-shit-out and allowances. I pointed out the demonborn hack and the Setite ghoul infinite beer hack.

Anyway, don't let that disturb y'all. If there is a question about what is permitted or not, just give me a holler.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Tue Feb 17, 2015 9:36 pm

Mostly I just wanted to play a hermit protected by bear army who had at least one bear that'd been ghouled and augmented like a demon could with beast magic. I found Biothaum, but the point costs are killing me. I may wind up paring away some of the peripheral things I wanted him able to do (plant magic, animal shapeshifting, fighting with Vic. to dismember people)

Whipstitch · Post by **Whipstitch** » Tue Feb 17, 2015 9:45 pm

Yeah, things are sufficiently confused in WW games that it's pretty much gentleman's agreements all the way down. And if you're going that route it often feels a bit uncouth to outright ban things because sometimes it can be fun to combine a few poorly balanced knick knacks and use them to shore up an otherwise shitty character. For example, in my old group we had a soft ban on Enchanting Voice just on the grounds that it was so good and so cheap that people felt dumb for not taking it. However, hilarity ensued when a nossy player took it and proceeded to run a phone sex line and catfish people.

Ancient History · Post by **Ancient History** » Tue Feb 17, 2015 9:54 pm

Speaking of bears:

radthemad4 · Post by **radthemad4** » Wed Feb 18, 2015 8:57 am

I think I'll be a Technomancer instead. Thaumaturgy apparently has a path for that. I'd also like to dip Path of the World's Blood for Eyes of the Earth, and make my vampire minions dip it as well.

Would it be okay if I build some sort of eyepatch or monocle that completely blocks vision but has a small screen on the inside with an attached micro camera on the outside? That way I could see both Obfuscaters and Lasombra, unless I misread something.

Ancient History wrote:Speaking of bears:

Is that a whale?

Ancient History · Post by **Ancient History** » Wed Feb 18, 2015 10:59 am

Re: Monocle Cam
See if one already exists on the market so we can price it, and if so it'll come out of your Resources.

Re: Whale
Man, I hope so.

radthemad4 · Post by **radthemad4** » Wed Feb 18, 2015 7:21 pm

Closest thing I could find was the AirScouter, which is an augmented reality thing and costs roughly two thousand dollars.

Commercial spy camera sunglasses range from around $60 onwards, but I don't know how good those are.

On the augmented reality front (but binocular), there's this, which can be bought used for $ 289 (the sequel is $ 700 new) and possibly be jury rigged to a spy camera to overlay footage on top of what's seen by the eyes.

I'm not looking for see through glasses with a overlaid images (it'd get the job done, but might be more expensive). My idea is to just have a screen that completely blocks vision on one eye and replaces it with camera footage.

I'm guessing someone with points in computer, craft and/or security might be able to make one using smart phone parts. Perhaps a background involving a tech firm and/or military would help.

Whipstitch · Post by **Whipstitch** » Thu Feb 19, 2015 5:43 am

Name: Maximo Altamirano/Matlal, priest of Macuilcozcacuahtli (just call him Max)
Clan: Follower of Set (Tlacique)
Generation:8
Concept: Lifestyle Coach, Addiction Counselor & Vulture God of Gluttony & Excess
Nature: Curmudgeon
Demeanor: Visionary

Statistics:

Attributes:
Strength 2, Dexterity 2, Stamina 2
Charisma 4 (unflappable), Manipulation 2, Appearance 4 (can get away with wearing outlandish things)
Perception 4 (hawk-eyed), Intelligence 2, Wits 2

Talents:
Alertness:3
Empathy:3
Intimidation:3
Subterfuge:3
Streetwise:1

Skills:
Survival:3
Etiquette:2

Knowledges:
Linguistics:3 (Extra Languages Known: Nahuatl, Spanish, Arabic, Egyptian)
Occult:3
Investigation:3

Backgrounds:
Generation:5
Resources:3
Status:3

Disciplines:
Clan: Protean, Obfuscate, Presence
Presence:3
Out-of-Clan: Thaumaturgy
The Focused Mind:5

Rituals:
Sense the Mystical
Extinguish
Incorporeal Passage
Strength of the Vanquished
Severance

Virtues:
Conscience 3, Self-Control 2, Courage 5

Humanity: 5
Willpower: 10
Blood Pool: 15

Merits/Flaws:

Unbondable: 3-pt. Merit
Max cannot become blood bound.

Drug Resistant: 2-pt.
Max is unusually resistant to drugs. Alcohol, narcotics and similar addictive substances have little or no effect upon him. He can drink from winos with impunity, or pretend to be far drunker than he actually is in order to take advantage of an opponent.

Eat Food: 1-pt. Merit
While he gains no nourishment from doing so Max has the capacity to eat food and even savor its taste.

Lunacy: 2-pt. Flaw
Max is affected by astronomical events, increasing his chance to frenzy. Under the crescent moon, difficulties to avoid frenzy increase by one. Under the half or gibbous moon, difficulties rise by two. When the moon is full, difficulties increase by three.

Vengeful Childe: 2-pt. Flaw
Max's only known "living" childe, Michael Aronsen, loathes him and actively works to his detriment. Further information is under Important People.

Routine: 2-pt. Flaw
Max still observes many old rituals and maintains his own star charts and calendar in accordance with the old ways, a habit which renders him somewhat predictable. The Storyteller may lower the difficulty 1 to 3 points for those hoping to use knowledge of Max's routine to catch him off-guard.

Vainglorious: 1-pt. Flaw
Max knows he deserves any praise he receives. He faces an increase of one difficulty level when resisting any attempts at Manipulation using flattery (the modifier is doubled if the sycophant has the flattery specialty).

Description:
Max is 5'10" and handsome in a vaguely stock character sort of way, like if you crossed a GQ model with Alberto Del Rio. He appears to be in his mid to late 20s.

Backstory:

Max is a 528 year old Tlacique who first fell into torpor during the fall of the Aztec Empire. At that that time he served as one of many god-priests of excess and renewal. In this role he would break and rebuild those who could not tame their desires, or, failing that, deprive them of their lifeblood. In modern nights Max has found common cause with the Followers of Set, who seem to view his practices as an honorable "Mask of Set." His goal in moving to Juneau is to shed his last mortal identity and settle down comfortably away from prying eyes. Long term, he'd like to create a blatant ripoff of Quitters, Inc., but for now he's content simply working the night shift as a counselor in the Bartlett Regional Hospital's addiction recovery center. He's actually rather good at it, which helps explain why nobody suspects that he is secretly gathering information about patients he believes will relapse without his special attention once released.

Important People
Michael Aronsen
Age: 27 (age of Embrace), 56 (actual)
Generation: 9
Gender: Male
Relation: Childe
Status: Presumed Alive & Active
Some people believe that the most hopeless addicts can only conquer their vices after hitting bottom. Max and other Followers of Set have experimented with this idea and have experimented with speeding an addict's descent, a practice they call "The Nudge." One of the people Max nudged by is a brilliant young lawyer with a severe alcohol problem by the name of Michael Aronsen. Surprisingly, being fired was enough to convince Michael to conquer his addiction so swiftly and decisively that Max later decided to gift Michael with the Embrace. The subsequent alliance ended spectacularly in 1992 when Michael was able to confirm that Max had arranged for some of the misfortunes he had faced as a mortal. They have not been on speaking terms since and Max currently does not know Michael's whereabouts or allegiances.

Necahual
Apparent Age: late teens, early 20s, actual age unknown
Generation: 7
Gender: Female
Relation: Sire
Status: Unknown, presumed to have met final death.
Max's relationship with his sire Necahual was a rather ambivalent one. While a vampire of considerable power and beauty, Necahual was not high enough in the vampire hierarchy to select her own childer and somewhat resented it when a mutual blood bond was mandated by the higher ups. For his part, he was initially attracted to her but things got a bit awkward when it turned out Max was largely immune to their blood bond. It's been 500 years though now, maybe they'd laugh about it if she's alive. Okay, probably not.

Here's a potential sheet and concept. AH, how do you view the relationship between the Camarilla and Setites? I know they're pretty much a bad guy faction in 1st edition Vampire but as of Revised things have become kinda wacky. I'm curious mostly because that sort of thing seems like something which should affect how I think about backgrounds and such.

Ancient History · Post by **Ancient History** » Thu Feb 19, 2015 10:06 am

AH, how do you view the relationship between the Camarilla and Setites?

Setites are independent; they probably attend Camarilla courts, and have their own.

Shady314 · Post by **Shady314** » Thu Feb 19, 2015 12:06 pm

Seems you've got plenty of interest in this game. It sounds very interesting. I'd love to play an amoral lawyer. Every group needs an amoral lawyer with an evil law firm behind them. That or a mad scientist/necromancer with control over hospitals/morgues and mortuaries. Somebody has to deal with the bodies. Whatever the group lacks as I just love to make characters.

I'm somewhat familiar with the world of darkness setting. Less so the mechanics but this would be a good reason to read the books.

Ancient History · Post by **Ancient History** » Thu Feb 19, 2015 8:06 pm

I'm not against it, if you think you can meet the not-exactly-blistering pace we're setting. I suppose at this point I should start lining up who is playing and who is not...

Whipstitch · Post by **Whipstitch** » Thu Feb 19, 2015 9:48 pm

Anyway, Koumei and AH were right to bring up hierarchy and elysium earlier in the thread, so here's my thoughts:

I suspect Koumei's on top. She's got a healthy chunk invested in status and she's a young go-getter with enough backgrounds that she'd probably be the one who gets most of the day-to-day mortal shit done even if someone else gets to be the nominal Prince. Being indispensable is often just as good as being in charge, so we may as well make it official.

Keeper of Elysium sounds like it might be a good fit for Radthemad, since I could see surveillance devices being handy for setting disputes about who started the name calling and essentially acting as an IRL forum moderator. Even if he doesn't load up on thugs it isn't too big of a deal because the Keeper can always just report people to Koumei and the Sheriff anyway.

Speaking of Sheriff, I'm guessing the best for the job would probably be Prak, because bears is always the funniest answer when someone says "You and what army?"

I don't really care if my dude has a job title. He's the ranking Setite and "formidable foreign dignitary" is a nice place to be even if it means you may occasionally bump into a glass ceiling now and again.

Ancient History · Post by **Ancient History** » Thu Feb 19, 2015 10:01 pm

Keep in mind, you're not stuck with traditional V:tM roles. You can come up with your own organizational hierarchy if you want. Council of Princes, if you like, the Bloody Boardroom, whatever.

[/edit]What you may want to give some thought to is how you'll maintain - and enforce - the Masquerade.

Whipstitch · Post by **Whipstitch** » Thu Feb 19, 2015 11:01 pm

My preference would be that if we ever go big time we keep at least those big 3 job titles for the benefit of outsiders even if we're a democracy behind closed doors. It would hardly be the first time in Camarilla history that the Prince rules only for as long as their council puts up with them. I can see an argument against openly flouting such titles from the beginning though since being the only coterie in town isn't really the same thing as being full-fledged court.

As far as the Masquerade goes, it appears that we definitely have enough talent to discredit or disappear the occasional mortal--I dunno what social powers the rest of you plan on getting, but Koumei knows a few cops and Max is quite good at convincing people to go on wild, credibility destroying benders. I think the most pressing questions are how far do we want people to be going with cults and wildlife body mods?

Shady314 · Post by **Shady314** » Thu Feb 19, 2015 11:10 pm

Will this be because the Camarilla is different in your setting? Less powerful? Less rigid?
Or because we can shake things up even if it horrifies the Cam? Are we expected to be in the Camarilla?
If we are the only vampires in the city what's the purpose of Elysium going to be for us?
Are we expecting PVP? Or are you going to introduce a group of vampire seeking refuge in our city?
I will nominate Juneau Rainforest Garden but amplified for the WoD. Bigger and mostly indoors. Some sort of lighting scheme that feels like daylight so vampires can pretend they are outside in the day.

As for the Masquerade we will need to have some sort of influence over the media, internet and the people most likely to encounter Masquerade breaches. Cops being the most obvious.
Animal spies should be great for hunting people down after the fact but we won't be omniscient so we will need to be able to handle cleanup.

Disposal of bodies and the cleaning up of crime scenes, removal of video, erasing/altering memories, ways to jam electronics for when we are able to act pre-emptively, we've mentioned the monitoring of planes, boats and the woods around Juneau, methods for eliminating unwanted supernaturals and I'm sure I'm forgetting more.

Bloody Boardroom sounds fun if too obviously sinister. Could be interesting figuring out what the responsibilities are for a vampire ceo coo cfo cro cto cio cmo cao cdo. Realistic if not terribly stylish.

Ancient History · Post by **Ancient History** » Thu Feb 19, 2015 11:22 pm

> Will this be because the Camarilla is different in your setting? Less powerful? Less rigid? Or because we can shake things up even if it horrifies the Cam? Are we expected to be in the Camarilla?

The Camarilla has no assets in Juneau besides you...if you decide you are members of the Camarilla. So, up to you.

> If we are the only vampires in the city what's the purpose of Elysium going to be for us?

It's not essential, but it's often expected and makes things easier for when other vampires pass through. You don't have to set one up if you don't want to, but you'll have to figure out how to deal with visiting vampires in a different way.

> Are we expecting PVP? Or are you going to introduce a group of vampire seeking refuge in our city?

PVP is entirely up to y'all. You can expect some means of testing how good of a set-up you have in the city.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Fri Feb 20, 2015 1:23 am

Just to throw something out there- with AH's approval, of course, I'm thinking about picking up the "Werewolf Companion" merit and making it (actually) a corax who I've ghouled. Ghouling is way more beneficial than embracing shifters, especially the Helios-tied ones like Corax and Mokole. So Kel's ghouled werething boyfriend would be helpful as a spy/info gatherer too, since that's what Corax are all about.

We can easily monitor boat and plane passage, and my bear army will keep an eye on the wilds, so we can pretty reliably make sure that most vampires and supernaturals who visit will be on a list and monitored. If we make a point that they have to visit Elysium first think, we can also have some things set up to impress upon them the importance of adhering to the masquerade lest they suffer the consequences when we catch them.

Ancient History · Post by **Ancient History** » Fri Feb 20, 2015 1:45 am

I'm not against a Werewolf Corax Companion, if you have the dots for it. If you want it to be a ghoul, though, you'll need to count it as a retainer.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Fri Feb 20, 2015 2:17 am

Yeah, I'm looking at making Retainers my big background for the Ghoul-Corax, and maybe a handful of ghouled bears, and then military force for Animalism-influenced bears and wolves and shit

Whipstitch · Post by **Whipstitch** » Fri Feb 20, 2015 2:21 am

My reason for mentioning the Camarilla repeatedly during Masquerade talk is because whatever legitimacy the Camarilla has in the eyes of vampire society stems from their status as the primary enforcers of the Masquerade. The Camarilla doesn't like it when you violate the other Traditions, but if you just greased some random caitiff or sassed an Elder they might not bother to look for you too hard. The same isn't true of major Masquerade breaches. If word of Juneau vampire cults makes the Today Show then no vampire will complain when the Camarilla makes our podunk asses burn. Even vampires who have no intention in attending the Toreador Ice Cream Social should probably have a plan for pacifying the Camarilla if some shit goes down in their domain.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Fri Feb 20, 2015 2:28 am

Well, the easiest way to cover up vampires today is to make people think that it's just vampire lifestylers and one went crazy or something. So if the media starts talking about vampire cults in Juneau, then we push out some ghoul who goes and talks about how it's just mostly-harmless escapist fantasy, but Jerry went crazy.

Whipstitch · Post by **Whipstitch** » Fri Feb 20, 2015 2:39 am

Right, but they take the explanations and reassurances more seriously if they get off the boat to Juneau and have that discussion in the Elysium with a Prince and a Sheriff. In other words, the easiest way to get the Camarilla off your back is to convince the Camarilla that the Camarilla has already taken care of the problem.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Fri Feb 20, 2015 2:41 am

I meant push a ghoul out to talk to the media. But you have a point. Aping Camarilla structures, whether we're Cam or not, will make the Cam. more comfortable with us.

Whipstitch · Post by **Whipstitch** » Fri Feb 20, 2015 2:52 am

Yeah, I mean, remember, this is Vampire we're talking about here. People ostensibly on the same team decapitate each other all the time. Being in the Camarilla doesn't mean we have to like anyone.