Fighter Thread [Tome]

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...You Lost Me
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Post by ...You Lost Me »

Kaelik does not believe in social contracts that are hazily defined. To him, it is just the tomes as written by two specific authors or it is literally everything ever. That's a beautiful kind of stupid, but it's something you should come to expect.

But this is very much sidetracked. Whipstich said you shouldn't rely on skills to do things, darkmaster/zaranthan posted feats that let you rely on skills to do things (such that if you include those things in your game, players can use the feat and pretend their skill checks are useful). Then people got sidetracked calling the feat bad, or saying no one used it, or Kaeliking, etc. Without even buying into Kaelik's cops & robbers game design, we already know that Whipstich is still correct. If you rely on skills, you will not go far. If you rely on skills and possible feats that key off those skills, you might go farther.
Last edited by ...You Lost Me on Mon Feb 16, 2015 4:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Orion
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Post by Orion »

I think the point is: Several of the Tome combat classes do not inherently get any reasonable non-combat abilities. I think Frank and K would acknowledge this. The intent was that they would get non-combat abilities with access to other subsystems, such as feats, items, and maybe armors. However, this never really came to fruition

Skill feats are a logical way to do this, but F&K never wrote any other than leadership feats and fighting feats like mounted combat. There isn't a widely-accepted pool of skill feats anywhere, at least none accepted enough that you could reasonably assume they would be in a "tome" game. Many of those that exist are disappointing.

There are utility feats in Tome of Fiends and Tome of Necromancers. They give you some benchmarks for what abilities in Tome land are supposed to look like. For instance, fiends get always-available flight with wings at level 6, so a skill feat ought to give more than 1 round of flight at level 11. If you're playing with only or mostly Frank/K material, then you need your warrior characters to be angel & demons. Tome of Necromancer also has great feats but they are insane and I have difficulty imagining an MC would ever allow most of them.

I'm going to go ahead and say that non-combat uselessness of DMF's is an "unsolved problem" in the Tome D&D corpus, although with some effort you can find or create a kludge that works for your group.
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Whipstitch
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Post by Whipstitch »

It should be stressed that this is all relative. Finding useful things to do over the course of a campaign isn't terribly difficult for a tome character, but relative to casters or people who can bullshit spells onto their list for the purposes of spell trigger they're a bit short on providing truly novel solutions to stuff.
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Kaelik
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Post by Kaelik »

...You Lost Me wrote:Kaelik does not believe in social contracts that are hazily defined. To him, it is just the tomes as written by two specific authors or it is literally everything ever. That's a beautiful kind of stupid, but it's something you should come to expect.
I'm not sure where you get that from. I exclude plenty of community material from my games, and I allow plenty, I criticize some material as garbage and write my own material.

I just don't understand why people think that the authoritative Tome material is located up their ass and around the corner, when there is an entire sub-forum full of it on this website.

EDIT: Having just attempted to link things to people, I was completely in the wrong. For specific things inside a large group of material the wiki is just easier. Fuck off Kaelik you monkey fuck idiot, ect.
Last edited by Kaelik on Tue Feb 17, 2015 4:05 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Leress
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Post by Leress »

http://www.tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?t=29292

Here is the feat Leap of Heavens. I just putting it here and not putting anything for or against the argument.
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Just a heads up... Your post is pregnant... When you miss that many periods it's just a given.
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