Best parts of Cyberpunk

[Koumei]

Prak: due to a misreading, they would worship a god called Zilla, clearly.

Not just for "general cyberpunk stuff" like novels and such, but specifically for a cyberpunk game, you need catalogues full of tech gadgets and weaponry. People need to be able to rub one out while choosing which SMG, which scope, which underslung weapon, the colour, the special ammunition type, magazine size, whether bullets have tiny fluorescent LEDs on them to look all fancy, special muzzle-flash patterns, and storage space in the grip for a cigarette lighter.

Some of that is more "Specifically SLA industries" territory, where generating a personal image is important. Actually, stuff that makes it easy to identify you as the killer, and give away your position is probably a bad idea. But you get the idea. Bonus points if the equipment section seriously looks like a bunch of catalogues (or in this post-tree economy, webstore pages).

until you finally wonder whether there was any cheese at all, or if you have only been chasing the memory of cheese this entire time

The cheese is a lie?

[Ancient History]

Shadow of cheese on the cave wall, more like.

[Prak]

Prak: due to a misreading, they would worship a god called Zilla, clearly.

Ah, of course.

Not just for "general cyberpunk stuff" like novels and such, but specifically for a cyberpunk game, you need catalogues full of tech gadgets and weaponry. People need to be able to rub one out while choosing which SMG, which scope, which underslung weapon, the colour, the special ammunition type, magazine size, whether bullets have tiny fluorescent LEDs on them to look all fancy, special muzzle-flash patterns, and storage space in the grip for a cigarette lighter.

Definitely this. People love customizing their shit, both in real life and in their games. There should be a flexible weapon customization and optimization system, as well as a generic--rather than specific--cybernetic's catalog, where you can say "I want a rocket fist with concealed hold-out pistol in the forearm like the unholy love child of Vash the Stampede and The Big O." What that could probably actually be is just a set of standard replacement parts, followed by custom options for each part. Also, there totally need to be cybernetic genital-protheses with music storage:

Some of that is more "Specifically SLA industries" territory, where generating a personal image is important. Actually, stuff that makes it easy to identify you as the killer, and give away your position is probably a bad idea. But you get the idea. Bonus points if the equipment section seriously looks like a bunch of catalogues (or in this post-tree economy, webstore pages).

Could be interesting to sell access to a flashy online SRD instead of (or in addition to) physical books.

[kzt]

There is no reason for a corp to be a government. Governing is messy. Who really wants to be responsible for pothole filling and burying dead junkies?

You just need to be able to influence governments so they are incentivized to do your bidding. Let's say you are huge financial corp and want to avoid going to jail for some blatantly illegal things. For instance, let's say investigators obtained proof of your having: laundered money for suspected terrorists and drug cartels; manipulated interest rate benchmarks; rigged various commodities markets; mislead investors in mortgage-linked securities; duped homeowners into taking out expensive mortgages; manipulated municipal debt markets; and broke state and federal rules when attempting to seize homes after borrowers fell behind on their payments.

You might think that without actually being a government that this would be hard, because these sorts of crimes result in criminal charges against the executives. But you would be wrong. Because that is EXACTLY what Eric Holder, Obama, and the Fed have done with the big US banks. http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/11/2 ... ut-Of-Jail

[norms29]

Don't forget that you need to have a reason in your setting why the corps have military power that can stand up to the government and the government just lets it slide.

Monsanto already owns Blackwater, so you don't need to bang your head on the wall trying to justify things that already exist in this day and age.

I'll admit to knowing only what was reported when blackwater was briefly frontpage news during the last years of GWB's administration. but do they seriously approach the size as an armed force to satisfy the bolded condition? and if so, are we talking about a first-world government? or are we talking like, "well blackwater says they can field one brigade, and two-three thosend guys ALL with working rifles is enough to overthrow a dictator in central africa/asia/america"?

[Dean]

There was a news story recently about a billionaire hedge fund owner who, when Argentina defaulted on their loans, "repossessed" an Argentinian Warship when it docked in a foreign country. It is easily possible to imagine a future where predatory industries drive countries further and further into debt and only forgive that debt when it is paid in war engines. It would only target the third and second world for a long time until eventually the Megacorporations finally informed the USA that they had enough military and financial power to make not accepting their demand for sovereignty more costly than giving in to it.

[Prak]

So basically the corps become Ankh Morpork? "If you declare war on us, we'll call in your debts?"

[kzt]

The company formally knows as Blackwater could maybe field a battalion(-), if all the guys they had on contract at any given time were in one place. But it wasn't organized that way. They ran small units (typically 4-16 guys) running security for the US State Department employees and various other USG and non-governmental organizations. Largely they did what Diplomatic Security Service special agents should have done if the total number of special agents worldwide hadn't been trimmed to about 600 in 1999 (It's about 2000 today). IIRC, the helicopter detachment Blackwater had in Iraq was the only actual organized unit.

[Blade]

I second TheFlatline's post about the theme of staying human in a de-humanizing world.

What's cool about cyberpunk, besides chrome and wired people doing awesome stuff, is that it's about that behind all that, it's ultimately about that tiny spark of humanity. And explaining why this is cool would take more than a board post.

Back to the list of "must have" for a cyberpunk universe, you'd also want to have a world oversaturated with media. Screens everywhere advertising showing everything. They might not show the actual reality, but since everyone is buying it as such, then it somehow becomes reality. That leads to "style over substance" and all that jazz.

[erik]

There was a news story recently about a billionaire hedge fund owner who, when Argentina defaulted on their loans, "repossessed" an Argentinian Warship when it docked in a foreign country.

I think it is okay to put quotes around "warship" here too.






Still a group of about 20 individuals locking down a sovereign nation's ship is pretty crazy.

[Nath]

Monsanto already owns Blackwater, so you don't need to bang your head on the wall trying to justify things that already exist in this day and age.

This one is starting to get old...

Virtually all the websites that reported this information either quoted or straight copy-pasted one page from pravda.ru in 2010 (not the actual Pravda mind you, but a website created by former Pravda journalists) that reads "A report by Jeremy Scahill in The Nation (Blackwater’s Black Ops, 9/15/2010) revealed that the largest mercenary army in the world, Blackwater (now called Xe Services) clandestine intelligence services was sold to the multinational Monsanto."

This page is supposed to be a translation of an article published by Mexican newspaper La Jornada, which reads "Un reporte de Jeremy Scahill publicado en The Nation (Blackwater’s Black Ops, 15/9/2010) reveló que el ejército mercenario más grande del mundo, Blackwater (ahora llamado Xe Services) le vendió servicios clandestinos de espionaje a la trasnacional Monsanto." Those who read a bit of Spanish may see where this is going.

If you go back to the original source mentioned by La Jornada, famed journalist Jeremy Scahill, you can find the article that was originally published in The Nation.

Nor Blackwater as a whole, nor a Blackwater clandestine unit was sold to Monsanto. Blackwater has sold clandestine services to Monsanto. Then one person got a verb wrong and nobody bother to check the source.

[Aryxbez]

There should be a flexible weapon customization and optimization system, as well as a generic--rather than specific--cybernetic's catalog

Problem with that, is it needs to be more meaningful, and less "Gotcha! moments" than the way Shadowrun has done it. Where Street Sam had to go through granular process of caring about piddly bonuses that didn't add up to be as meaningful as other concepts. So upgrades should definitely provide abilities, and numbers second (if at all). "Gotcha" bit refers to tedious thing of having to scour the books to ensure ye have the right upgrade to make the weapons do what you want. Screwing over those who details they couldn't have known off-hand, such as needing Sealed clip + Chrome/special material in order to sneak in your gun(s) without autofailing to sniff tests, Air-bursts to make Grenade launchers work, and lesser extent comfortable handle/Smartgun-jazz.

Otherwise I do support the idea of encouraging swag to be more imaginative in its special looks, likely includes several tables to help people generate ideas to make their stuff cool and the game not discouraging that every step of the way (sorta how SR encourages you to be "generic" than "distinctive" albeit makes some sense).

Lastly, I wonder if the author has checked out the original thread to Frank's Fantasy Cyberpunk RPG idea? Might have some worthwhile mentions may answer some questions for ya (it does mention how mundane human face should be supported).

Also, the PCs must ALWAYS be transhumans or you end up with Linear Fighters/Quadratic Wizards (don't give players a choice, there are no "Batmen" here).

I do understand the notion here, give all PC's a powersource helps em be different, and no Capt-Hobo's. However the No-Cyber/Magic/juiced Human Face/Detective should be supportable in a Cyberpunk game. The struggle of maintaining humanity in a world of everyone losing theres is compelling and appropriate theme in Cyberpunk. Though yeah, could easily just be punked into NPC-status, but ruleset could help encourage that (which I recall Frank's project was going to encourage above)

Lastly, I have wondered, how do you best showcase the themes of Cyberpunk about how becoming "less human" to the players and reflected in the game world?

[Lokathor]

The no-magic/no-cyber guy can be a thing in a cyberpunk game if you give them plot control powers. In other words, they have to become batman.

[Mask_De_H]

If I remember Asymmetric Threat correctly, Frank made the low tech low cyber guy the face and the fixer for hot items, because they were unassuming and not transhuman freakshows.

Doing a plot control powers thing doesn't really work unless they are the only people who get plot control powers, which can break willing suspension of disbelief. FATE tried to do that with the idea of Refresh, but having abilities at all gives you an equal or greater control of the plot so mundane guy is still missing out.

[Aryxbez]

n a cyberpunk game if you give them plot control powers. In other words, they have to become batman.

Like as in Edge? a stat a Face-type character not spending resources on magic, augmentations might actually raise higher than normal?

[Lokathor]

Edge would be just the tip of the ice burg.

If muggles want to compete, they need to have special powers that are comparable to the rest of the people in the group. But their whole deal is that they don't have special powers. So, your special power list isn't stuff that your character is doing, it's stuff that you yourself are spending points on to have happen directly to the narrative. In a meta way, like in FATE or Munchausen. In-setting, your character is doing none of it though. So instead of having powers like "Heal" and "Gyro-comp HMG" and "Trace Signal", you've got powers like "someone left it unlocked" and "that guard was up late last night and dozes off" and "actually the store has exactly one of those rare items left on the shelf".

Problem with this solution: It's kinda bullshit and I don't think most players would want to play it.

[Dean]

I actually don't feel that the power ceiling on Cyberpunk is that high that Transhumanism is strictly required. It's obviously a good design instinct to not have class A's abilities be "Possible things" and class B's abilities be "Thing's possible or impossible", but it isn't necessarily true that those things can't be balanced against each other. As the power ceiling lowers the difference between the two thins. I think Batman would be considered a totally competent Shadowrun character for instance.

I think that all sorts of Transhumanism should be an option at all times but none should be strictly required. I think it's possible to imagine mundane characters that are as powerful as characters in Shadowrun typically get. The amount of power accessible through social abilities, gear, and training is just way higher than it is in a game like D&D. A guy without magic powers can launch a nuclear bomb in our world.

[Omegonthesane]

I actually don't feel that the power ceiling on Cyberpunk is that high that Transhumanism is strictly required. It's obviously a good design instinct to not have class A's abilities be "Possible things" and class B's abilities be "Thing's possible or impossible", but it isn't necessarily true that those things can't be balanced against each other. As the power ceiling lowers the difference between the two thins. I think Batman would be considered a totally competent Shadowrun character for instance.

I think that all sorts of Transhumanism should be an option at all times but none should be strictly required. I think it's possible to imagine mundane characters that are as powerful as characters in Shadowrun typically get. The amount of power accessible through social abilities, gear, and training is just way higher than it is in a game like D&D. A guy without magic powers can launch a nuclear bomb in our world.

Seconded, I'm not seeing how "guy whose tech, if he has any, is all on the outside" is so much inferior to transhumans in all relevant areas that he can't even play the same game. "Not as good as the transhumans in combat but better at being seen without causing a riot" seems a valid niche - the ability "Carries a grappling hook" is in the same ballpark as "Able to call on magic spider spirits or whatever to scale a brick wall" unless the scenario is designed by Gary Gygax. Likewise, any strength buff isn't going to be as good in combat as an assault rifle unless you're expecting the PCs to routinely attack tanks with giant clubs or something ridiculous.

Also, as mentioned H:AT had the idea of a Stress mechanic, where you'd have to pay permanent Stress for magic or cyberware (or bioware), which immediately gives rise to the idea of someone who has his full amount of Permanent Stress usable for normal situations. There's no room for luddites who don't use future-tech at all but it seems to me that "carries a bunch of tech which isn't incorporated into his body and both thinks he's 'more human' for it and has an easier time bullshitting people due to having a full Stress bar" is valid.

[Blade]

- "You can have all the cyber you want, you'll never be a match for a true professional"
- "You've spent 20 years practicing kung-fu? I've got in in a chip, and my body's augmented. You're no match for me, evolve or die."

Both are perfectly valid approach to a cyberpunk world, it's just a matter of the tone you want in your game.

[CatharzGodfoot]

Speaking of magic . . .
Magic is not one of the best parts of Cyberpunk. It's not even a good part of Cyberpunk (sorry Shadowrun). But 'sufficiently advanced technology' and the trappings of the occult are both excellent.

[norms29]

The company formally knows as Blackwater could maybe field a battalion(-), if all the guys they had on contract at any given time were in one place.

In March 2006, Cofer Black, vice chairman of Blackwater USA, allegedly suggested at an international conference in Amman, Jordan, that the company was ready to move towards providing security professionals up to brigade size (3,000–5,000) for humanitarian efforts and low-intensity conflicts. Citation: http://hamptonroads.com/node/84251

[Stahlseele]

Speaking of magic . . .
Magic is not one of the best parts of Cyberpunk. It's not even a good part of Cyberpunk (sorry Shadowrun). But 'sufficiently advanced technology' and the trappings of the occult are both excellent.

Maybe not Magic, what about Psionics instead? (yes, yes, i know, i know, semantics . . )

[TheFlatline]

There is no reason for a corp to be a government. Governing is messy. Who really wants to be responsible for pothole filling and burying dead junkies?

I actually agree here strongly. It's one of the parts of Cyberpunk that feels dated.

Infrastructure is complicated and expensive to maintain. Judicial systems, power grids, even relatively stable currencies are important and not easy to mandate into existence. Funding a military body is enormously expensive.

A more modern take on the Soverign AAA megacorp is the citizen corporation who is treated as an individual citizen in the eyes of the government. So you don't have Ono Sendai as it's own country, but you do have the Honorable Senator Ono Sendai from the great state of Wherever.

[kzt]

In March 2006, Cofer Black, vice chairman of Blackwater USA, allegedly suggested at an international conference in Amman, Jordan, that the company was ready to move towards providing security professionals up to brigade size (3,000–5,000) for humanitarian efforts and low-intensity conflicts. Citation: http://hamptonroads.com/node/84251

However they never actually did. Losing the DoS Iraq contract didn't kill the company, but it certainly put a lot of crazy ideas to bed.

[Username17]

A big thing that Cyberpunk has tried to work with was the idea of conformity as a cost. And also of individuality as a cost. And yes, I know that it doesn't make sense when you say both things at the same time and it hasn't worked out well game mechanically when people try to bring that to games.

So you've got the Major's rant about how if everyone on her team was wired up that they'd become predictable and they could get wiped out. And that's a cool rant, and it is excused Togusa being kind of a dead weight in that movie. But that's just it... he was actually pretty much dead weight in that movie. At no time did anyone ever demonstrate getting their ass kicked because they were too wired and didn't have enough human left inside to be unpredictable. That never fucking happened. People lost because their tech wasn't good enough, but not even once did even a single fucking person lose anything because their tech was too good.

Ideally, you'd have some sort of thing where you can get "better" by getting state of the art stuff, but doing so also makes you "conform" which in turn means that people can spoof you. But that's really hard to do. That's so hard to do that I can't recall people actually successfully pulling that off in single author fiction.

What pretty much always happens is you get some kind of dumb uncanny valley where getting a "little" augmented fucks you out of whatever design space they gave to actual pure meat, and getting a lot augmented is pretty much that plus you get to be an awe inspiring death machine.

-Username17