[Tome] More Maneuvers?

[radthemad4]

Anything comes to mind that anyone should be able to try without a feat?

Tome already has

Aid Another
Bullrush
Charge
Coup de Grace
Covering Fire
Delay
Disarm
Expertise
Feint
Grapple (Grab on, Hold Down, Lift)
Overrun
Power Attack
Sunder
Ready
Trip

Boost
As part of a move action, you can enter an ally's space, and gain a bonus to starting altitude for any vertical jump checks by an amount equal to their vertical reach. If you have 5 ranks in jump and climb, you can use enemies, though it requires a melee touch attack (provokes AoOs if you don't have unarmed proficiency or a slam attack or something) and you get a boost dependent on the creature's size category (e.g. medium=5, large=10)

(Requires some sort of condition to account for weak characters and heavy characters)

Dirty Trick (Tomeified) by Grek

As an attack action, make a Sleight of Hand check against a DC of 10 + the higher of your opponent's BAB or ranks in Perception + a stat bonus based on the affliction to be inflicted:

Con: Sickened, Deafened or (with the feat) Nauseated.
Dex: Entangled, Blinded or (with the feat) On Fire.
Wis: Shaken, Dazzled or (with the feat) Confused.

This condition lasts for 1 round. For every 5 by which your attack exceeds the DC, the penalty lasts 1 additional round. This penalty can usually be removed if the target spends a move action.

Edge Option: If you have the Edge on your target and you successfully play a dirty trick, you may make an attack against that opponent this round as a Swift action.

Has a Scaling Feat that can improve it:

Dirty Rotten Tricks [Combat]
That's just unsportsmanlike.
Benefits: This is a combat feat that scales with your Base Attack Bonus.

• +0: You do not provoke an attack of opportunity when performing a dirty trick.
• +1: You may perform a dirty trick as an immediate action.
• +6: The effects of your dirty tricks last an extra 1d4 rounds.
• +11: Your dirty tricks require a Standard action to remove rather than a Move action.
• +16: Add the following to the list of conditions you can cause with a dirty trick: on fire, nauseated, or confused.

Tackle
As part of a run (the full round action), you may use a hold down maneuver, but fall prone whether or not it succeeds. If you have 8 ranks in tumble, failure does not make you prone.

Provide Cover by erik
As a move action you can fight while sharing your 5' square with an ally. Your Ally receives a +5 cover bonus, and if the ally is missed by less than 5 then the attack is directed at you instead.
While Providing Cover you may not benefit from cover from your ally.

(I'm thinking this should be applicable to saves as well)

Dive by Ogrebattle/Prak
As a swift action, you may move 5 feet but fall prone as a result. If you haven't used your standard action or move action, you may do so from the position you moved to just before you fall without any penalties for being prone. You may dive an additional 5 feet for every 20 feet by which your per move action speed exceeds 30.

You may use a dive as an immediate action. This gives you a +5 to AC and saves against attacks targeted at your original position (they can still hit you), but makes you prone and dazed for a round. You may use the provide cover maneuver against a single action (e.g. a spell, an attack or a full attack) as part of an immediate action dive.

Ideas generated so far:
Dodge/Intercept Attacks
Tackle
Throwing People
Unwilling Shield

Have more maneuvers been made for Tome in older threads? Any other ideas?

[OgreBattle]

Is tackling a guy covered already by trip? Because tackling dudes is a good cinematic move you see a lot.

How about guarding someone and stepping into block others from reaching them, is that covered by delay actions already?

[radthemad4]

Is tackling a guy covered already by trip? Because tackling dudes is a good cinematic move you see a lot.

There's Grapple (Hold Down), but tackling is something you usually do when they're running away from you. When running they move quadruple (or pentuple with the Run feat) their move speed, so you might not be able to charge them. I think we could do with a tackle maneuver that can be done as part of a Run and makes the one who tries it prone (and the victim gets prone and held down if the maneuver is successful). Perhaps someone with enough tumble ranks can avoid falling prone from failed tackle attempts.

How about guarding someone and stepping into block others from reaching them, is that covered by delay actions already?

Delayed and readied actions seem to cover it, but the problem seems to be that the typical slow motion dive while shouting 'NOOOOOO!' usually isn't planned in advance. I can't think of a good way to support this in a turn based game of rocket tag. Still, I'll listen if anyone else thinks of one.

[Wiseman]

What about a option with grappling to throw your opponent? That's something that high strength characters do.

[OgreBattle]

I can't think of a good way to support this in a turn based game of rocket tag. Still, I'll listen if anyone else thinks of one.

Maybe something with swift/immediate actions.

Use your immediate/Swift action to 5ft step into the path of an attack, you are dazed for your next round. I'm not sure what kind of roll will be needed to see if it succeeds or not.

But waiting to see if players/monsters are going to declare an interrupting "Nooooo!!" dive between any attack could slow things down. It's a very cinematic move, but is there a way to pull it off or is it best left out?

[erik]

Grapple(Hold Down) seems like an apt way to handle tackling.

Maneuvers that I'd want would be

1. To be able to shield others. Some way to be a functional body-guard.

Provide Cover
As a move action you can fight while sharing your 5' square with an ally. Your Ally receives a +5 cover bonus, and if the ally is missed by less than 5 then the attack is directed at you instead.
While Providing Cover you may not benefit from cover from your ally.

2. I was going to say some way to block movement, but really even a halfling already blocks all movement through a 5' wide zone, and you can use an AoO to grapple or trip someone who tries to get past from a 15' wide zone. It's just that thanks to movement not being simultaneous it is still fairly easy to walk around someone, and I don't have a solution for that short of making movement either simultaneous or more abstracted, either way it's more work than just a simple maneuver.

3. A way to apply Expertise AC bonus to an adjacent ally rather than to yourself (basically guarding/parrying to protect an ally)

4. A way to knockback/throw people. Sort of a combined Trip/Bull Rush.

[RobbyPants]

How about guarding someone and stepping into block others from reaching them, is that covered by delay actions already?

Delayed and readied actions seem to cover it, but the problem seems to be that the typical slow motion dive while shouting 'NOOOOOO!' usually isn't planned in advance. I can't think of a good way to support this in a turn based game of rocket tag. Still, I'll listen if anyone else thinks of one.

I have a feat I created for my games that among other things, lets the person move up to their base land speed for the purpose of intercepting a charge or ranged attack. Doing so costs the user their move action the following round instead of their swift action.

You can also swap places with them and become the new target as an immediate action, or give your Shield bonus to AC to them until the start of your next turn (and you lose it during this time).

[radthemad4]

The problem I have with immediate actions is that I keep wondering why the target doesn't just use an immediate action to move out of the way. If you can use one to jump in front of someone, I think you should also be able to use the same action to jump out of the way yourself when targeted. Sure, Tome gives everyone more to do with their swift actions (so they may have already used them up) but it still feels a bit weird.

In the same vein as erik's idea, I think getting some sort of bonus to AC and flanking immunity from occupying the same space as an ally would be neat.

What about using a grappled opponent as a human (or whatever species they are) shield?

[Prak]

So make a Dodge maneuver that allows you to attempt a 5ft step as an immediate.

[OgreBattle]

How about you're also prone+dazed after you use the immediate action desperation dive. So you don't have everyone always using it to avoid all attacks targeted at them.

It also kind of works as a "INCOMING!!" kind of maneuver where the threat of massive damage being sent at someone has them dive for cover and suppressed for the next turn. So then people can get suppressed not because it's a special rule of an attack, but because they don't want to get hit by what's coming at them.

[Prak]

Or that. I actually like that better, a single maneuver that covers diving for cover and diving to intercept with the consequence of falling prone and being a little out of sorts.

[RobbyPants]

3.5 made a feat for that, although it was a particularly shitty feat.

[Seerow]

3.5 made a feat for that, although it was a particularly shitty feat.

Nice thing about combat maneuvers over feats is if you are in the one in a million situation it is worthwhile, the option is there for you.

Whereas with a shitty feat you take it and spend the whole game wondering why you wasted resources on something you never get to use.

[radthemad4]

How about you're also prone+dazed after you use the immediate action desperation dive. So you don't have everyone always using it to avoid all attacks targeted at them.

It also kind of works as a "INCOMING!!" kind of maneuver where the threat of massive damage being sent at someone has them dive for cover and suppressed for the next turn. So then people can get suppressed not because it's a special rule of an attack, but because they don't want to get hit by what's coming at them.

Sure, someone else in your party might be able to kill them in their turn, but I think I'd be pretty annoyed if I try my super awesome only a few times per day finishing move, only for them to move out of the way and miss out on the feeling that I landed the finishing blow. It's an interesting ability, but I think it should probably be (part of) a feat or class feature. That way, the world isn't full of people who can do this.

3.5 made a feat for that, although it was a particularly shitty feat.

Nice thing about combat maneuvers over feats is if you are in the one in a million situation it is worthwhile, the option is there for you.

Whereas with a shitty feat you take it and spend the whole game wondering why you wasted resources on something you never get to use.

Come to think of it, there might be a lot of highly situational feats that could work as maneuvers (possibly unlocked if you have a certain BAB, number of skill ranks or something), or be demoted into skill tricks.

[radthemad4]

Tackle
As part of a run (the full round action), you may use a hold down maneuver, but fall prone whether or not it succeeds. If you have 8 ranks in tumble, failure does not make you prone.

Dive by Ogrebattle/Prak
As a swift action, you may move 5 feet but fall prone as a result. If you haven't used your standard action or move action, you may do so from the position you moved to just before you fall without any penalties for being prone. You may dive an additional 5 feet for every 20 feet by which your per move action speed exceeds 30.

You may use a dive as an immediate action. This gives you a +5 to AC and saves against attacks targeted at your original position (they can still hit you), but makes you prone and dazed for a round. You may use the provide cover maneuver (see 1st post or erik's post) against a single action (e.g. a spell, an attack or a full attack) as part of an immediate action dive.