D&D 5e has failed

[fearsomepirate]

No, it's not about "championing noble causes poorly." A SJW refers to a left-winger who can never turn off the moral crusade, ever, and is basically ruins any kind of business or social setting once he or she discovers there is a heretic in the midst.

I have no idea what percentage of liberals this is. I am sure it is small. But the small percentage exercises the heckler's veto loudly and often. Like we could have had a discussion about 5e. That would have been neat! I like TTRPGs and bitching about them! Instead, we had pages of back-and-forth about the word "tranny" and the theological details concerning its invocation because someone failed to hew closely enough to the progressive faith.

No one was converted. No one's mind was changed. Certainly no laws or lives were changed. All that happened is that conversation on 5e is now over. It's been shut down. Is that what "success" looks like?

[Prak]

...

yes, because getting a job clearly means you're not being oppressed or held down by the systematic, institutionalized prejudice of rich old white men against anyone of colour, a non-christian faith, a non-heterosexual orientation, or having tits.

[Mistborn]

Have you looked at the unemployment rates lately? Being a minority or woman would be an advantage; these people receive preferential treatment based on the erroneous assumption that they're being oppressed.

Are you for real?

[Prak]

No, it's not about "championing noble causes poorly." A SJW refers to a left-winger who can never turn off the moral crusade, ever, and is basically ruins any kind of business or social setting once he or she discovers there is a heretic in the midst.

I have no idea what percentage of liberals this is. I am sure it is small. But the small percentage exercises the heckler's veto loudly and often. Like we could have had a discussion about 5e. That would have been neat! I like TTRPGs and bitching about them! Instead, we had pages of back-and-forth about the word "tranny" and the theological details concerning its invocation because someone failed to hew closely enough to the progressive faith.

No one was converted. No one's mind was changed. Certainly no laws or lives were changed. All that happened is that conversation on 5e is now over. It's been shut down. Is that what "success" looks like?

Dude. No, seriously. Use the site search and look for 5e threads.

This always happens. I think one time we got off on a tangeant about recipes. 5e is just so shit-tastic that we will always start talking about something else, because there's only so much "holy wow, this game is terrible" you can actually put out at once.

[fearsomepirate]

...

yes, because getting a job clearly means you're not being oppressed or held down by the systematic, institutionalized prejudice of rich old white men against anyone of colour, a non-christian faith, a non-heterosexual orientation, or having tits.

Why did rich, old, white men fail to hold down Asians in this country?

[Mistborn]

Ok Night Goat, fearsomepirate please stop digging yourselves deeper. It's already clear that your reactionary fuckasses but maybe we'll all forget if you stop posting right now and come back in a few weeks. You guys have no idea what you are talking about.

[Night Goat]

Have you looked at the unemployment rates lately? Being a minority or woman would be an advantage; these people receive preferential treatment based on the erroneous assumption that they're being oppressed.

Are you for real?

Yes, I'm for real. Black people are only held down by a culture that tells them doing anything to improve their own station is "acting white", and leftists are enabling them because they think that criticizing another culture for any reason is racist. Meanwhile the "strong independent women" are constantly playing the victim card and no one ever questions them.

[Leress]

Okay, hold up. I think you guys need to take this conversation to a new thread in MPSIMS.

[Night Goat]

Fine, I'll drop it. Just remember, kids: question everything.

[Mistborn]

Fine, I'll drop it. Just remember, kids: question everything.

You're the one who needs to rethink your life choices. Maybe if you dropped the reactionary persecution complex you'd be less of a failure? It's because of people like you we can't have nice things in the country.

[momothefiddler]

[long response to Night Goat omitted]

Wow, catch up on a thread and then write a reply and it's already time to catch up on the thread again

[Dogbert]

DSM: That's the curse of 5e here, it's so astounding uninteresting, that supposed discussions of it always diverge into more interesting discussions.

Or rather, like someone else pointed out before, any discussion about 5E is nothing d&d players haven't already discussed before about a hundred times. It's only actual addition is the Backgrounds stuff (which is by far and large my favorite part about it).

[DSMatticus]

You will note that African Americans have higher unemployment rates, not lower. Also, it has been demonstrated that between two identical resumes for two fictional people the one with the less "ethnic" name is far more likely to be given an interview for a position.

Similarly, you will note that after controlling for education level Asian Americans have higher unemployment rates, not lower. Asians have an overall higher employment rate because they have an overall higher level of education, which is due to a selection bias; it is much easier for wealthier middle-/upper-class families to come to the United States.

I'm not going to argue the point with either of you and I'm done after this, but it is important to understand that the two of you are making counterfactual claims about simple, readily available information. Your knowledge of the world is not driven by any truths you have uncovered, it is driven by stereotypes and someone else's baseless rhetoric, and that has lead you to some very dark places. The fundamental assumptions on which you're basing your views do not hold, and you should step back and reconsider them. You should definitely get a lot better at the whole "question everything" thing, bare minimum.

[Hiram McDaniels]

It can be hard to tell who's the majority and minority, and your perception can be coloured by a lot of things. There are people who think faux-feminists, women who want to replace male dominance with female dominance, are the majority, but that is itself far from the case. There are also people (like my mother) who think that's what feminism is.

Yeah, that sort of extreme, misandrist belief isn't feminism; it's hate speech. Actual feminism is about equality, not segregation.

[Hiram McDaniels]

Have you looked at the unemployment rates lately? Being a minority or woman would be an advantage; these people receive preferential treatment based on the erroneous assumption that they're being oppressed.

So I used to walk to work every morning at about 5am. I'm a blue collar guy, so my work clothes are often ragged and dirty.

One morning as I was walking to my job, when I came across a police officer who was frisking a 35-40ish black man against the hood of his squad car. The black man was wearing high end running gear, and had an ipod sport strapped to his arm; he was obviously just out for a morning run and there was nothing suspicious seeming about him whatsoever.

When I passed by, the policeman didn't spare me a second glance: a sinister looking, unkempt man in ragged, dirty work clothes and a hooded jacket out at 5am; someone many people cross the street to avoid. But then, I happen to be white. He was more concerned with the black man who looked to any reasonable individual to have merely been on a morning run before work.

You might say to yourself that this is merely anecdotal, but look at incarceration rates of black and latino youths vs. white youth. Look at arrest and conviction rates. You also might be thinking to yourself that this is because black and latino youth are more likely to be committing crimes; but the majority of these convictions come from drug offenses, and the percentage of white Americans who use illegal substances is the same.

And you don't think that women are oppressed? Why do women make 75 cents for every dollar of a man doing the exact same job? When's the last time you saw a woman driving in a car commercial? Why does the internet go apeshit with death threats everytime a female celebrity gains 10 pounds, but the barely give a turd when Alec Baldwin or Val Kilmer does? Why is it that the only one of Amal Alamuddin's accomplishments anyone gives a shit about is marrying George Clooney? Fuck, man...do you want me to prove to you that rape culture exists? Because I can do it.

[infected slut princess]

Truly 5e is so lame it doesn't even give us much to complain about. There is hardly any content (still no DMG) and the system is so pathetically, well, _nonexistent_ that it doesn't provide much ammo for discussion.

Hating 4e was way more. Fun. Hating 5e is kinda boring

[infected slut princess]

Why does the internet go apeshit with death threats everytime a female celebrity gains 10 pounds, but the barely give a turd when Alec Baldwin or Val Kilmer does?

Lol no one gives a fuck about val kilmer

[Ed]

I couple every privilege checkmark with an amazing job living in one of the greatest places in North America (yes, Frank, I'm still jealous) and I am so handsome that people occasionally stop and gawk.

That has nothing to do with the topic, I'm just bragging.



But no, seriously, DSMatticus (obviously) has the right of it and honestly I don't understand the phenomenon that makes his post necessary--the existence of groups of whitebros who somehow have the notion deep in their heads that somehow minorities have a Konami code when it comes to anything in this country is honestly fucking befuddling.

Okay, it's not befuddling, we just have real stupid people around who are so self-inserted into their own little epistemic closures that they think the rumors and mistruths in which they've steeped themselves are actually true...but still.

[Username17]

Believe it or not, the fact that Night Goat believes counterfactual things and then says offensive shit about them is extremely relevant to 5e. Back in the 70s, Gary Gygax said lots of things that fall into the category of "stupid things white people say" and really the only excuse was that it was the 1970s and fucking Shaft was social progress. D&D through 2nd edition kept saying that kind of crap well into the 90s and it was super embarrassing. I mean, fucking Space Gypsies? Seriously?

3rd edition was a lot less embarrassing and had a lot less "stupid things white people say" in it. We didn't really see mention of pygmies or suggested stat modifiers for women and orientals. 5e, in its quest to be more grognardy than Pathfinder is finding in its heart the ability to say some of the old insensitive crap again. Degenerate primitives and evil black people all over again.

-Username17

[Prak]

Greyhawk is all the proof you need of that. Also, "stupid things men say"

[fearsomepirate]

Similarly, you will note that after controlling for education level Asian Americans have higher unemployment rates, not lower. Asians have an overall higher employment rate because they have an overall higher level of education, which is due to a selection bias; it is much easier for wealthier middle-/upper-class families to come to the United States.

This doesn't support the left-wing conspiratorial view of things at all. The education-controlled pay gap between Asians and whites is about 6%. But pretty much all academic achievement gaps favor Asians…except verbal, which favors whites.

If an active, malicious conspiracy by a tiny cabal of old, rich, white, Christian, politically conservative men is so thoroughly capable of repressing blacks in literally every aspect of life (except sports) even in progressive-dominated cities in progressive-dominated states like Boston and Baltimore, we wouldn't see Asians beating whites in anything, and the pay gap should be a lot larger than 6%. We shouldn't see the most-educated, highest-educated people in the country voting Democrat, either.

The "old, rich, white, heterosexual, conservative, Christian men don't want brown people, gays, and women to succeed" just isn't a good explanation.

[Username17]

Fearsomepirate, stop talking. Every time you talk about this subject, you make yourself look like an idiot. But more importantly you make yourself look like an idiot who is actively engaged in oppressing disadvantaged people, and you should stop doing that.

There are 1.3 billion people in China, and they live in one of the most massive and brutal regimes that has ever existed. The Peoples' Republic of China executes more people than the rest of the world's countries. Not more "per capita," just more. There are more executions in the PRC than the rest of the world combined. Obviously, many people in China would like to leave. But they can't. They can't because China makes it hard for their people to leave and other countries make it hard for Chinese people to arrive. Only a very small number can make it out (less than one percent), and that group is almost entirely from the most wealthy and skilled people in the country.

But fucking think about the scales here. Chinese people outnumber Americans by more than four to one. And yet there are only 1.6 million Chinese living in the US (about one half of one percent) - a group which is heavily weighted towards people with wealth and valuable skills. Given the selection bias, the fact that Chinese people in the United States are not completely dominating the wealth pyramid means that you don't live in a color-blind meritocracy.

Stop trying to fight the left wingers that you seem to believe are destroying America or whatever the fuck. Racial intolerance of people of color is and has been a really serious problem, and you come off as an asshole and a fool by pretending otherwise.

-Username17

[Leress]

Fuck...

If an active, malicious conspiracy by a tiny cabal of old, rich, white, Christian, politically conservative men is so thoroughly capable of repressing blacks in literally every aspect of life (except sports) even in progressive-dominated cities in progressive-dominated states like Boston and Baltimore, we wouldn't see Asians beating whites in anything, and the pay gap should be a lot larger than 6%. We shouldn't see the most-educated, highest-educated people in the country voting Democrat, either.

The "old, rich, white, heterosexual, conservative, Christian men don't want brown people, gays, and women to succeed" just isn't a good explanation.

Except no one here is saying that.

[zugschef]

It's the collective behaviour of society.

[fearsomepirate]

Fearsomepirate, stop talking. Every time you talk about this subject, you make yourself look like an idiot. But more importantly you make yourself look like an idiot who is actively engaged in oppressing disadvantaged people, and you should stop doing that.

"Shut up," he explained.

Fine, you win.

You guys clearly have a lot more experience with immigration and the STEM sector of the economy than I do, so I'll defer to your expertise here.