D&D 5e has failed

[JonSetanta]

That's what my LGS is selling for.

[infected slut princess]

No one gives a fuck about 5e. Mike Mearls and his friends are all fucking losers. Mearls is probably still a virgin.

Does anyone remember his 5e "to-do list"? The original link is broken, but I quoted from the article back when it was originally published.
http://tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?t=54677&view=next

Just curious if the fucktards on the 5e team ever ended up doing ANY of this stuff, because I want to look at it and laugh about how shitty it is. Or did they just not bother because "who cares 5e blows and we are losers".

An optional tactical combat system, with rules for using miniatures, rules for combat that operate like 3rd Edition or 4th Edition in that they remove DM adjudication of things like cover, and expanded, basic combat options to allow for forced movement, tanking, and so forth, as options any character can attempt. This optional system will look a bit like AD&D’s Player’s Option: Combat and Tactics book with key lessons learned from 4th Edition. Its goal is to present combat as a challenging puzzle that pits the players against the DM, capturing the best parts of 4th Edition.

An optional dramatic system that emphasizes D&D as a storytelling activity. This system treads ground that D&D hasn’t formally embraced in the past. It casts a gaming group as collaborative storytellers, with the DM managing the action and everyone contributing events, plots twists, and sudden, dramatic turns.

An optional system that cranks up character customization by allowing players to build their own subclasses. This system is really more of a set of guidelines that let you mix and match abilities pulled from subclasses within a class. You can approach it as a DM tool (“In my setting, the wizards of the Burning Isle combine illusion and necromancy”) or as a way for players to have more choice in building characters. We’re making this system optional because we know that some players want a lot of ways to customize their characters, but more customization invariably leads to broken combos. We can manage combinations and fairness at the subclass and feat level, but slicing things much finer than that goes beyond what we can reasonably expect to playtest.

A campaign system that extends the action beyond the day-to-day adventures, focusing on what we’ve called downtime. This includes managing a domain, running a business, playing politics on a grand scale, and so on. Things like mass combat would naturally slot into this system.

[Kaelik]

No one gives a fuck about 5e. Mike Mearls and his friends are all fucking losers. Mearls is probably still a virgin.

Some A+ Quality insults. Let's insult people who we are like 99% sure have in fact had sex for being virgins. That way we can both emphasize that people are worthless if they don't have sex, and also that we are delusional and incapable of realizing that of course the guy who made a bunch of money not designing games but being paid to anyway probably is capable of the base level of charisma necessary to convince another human being to have sex with him.

[deaddmwalking]

I'd like to agree with Kaelik. While I am not, myself, a virgin (I'm a father of 3), I can think of a lot of reasons someone might choose not to have sex. Further, having sex has nothing to do with your ability to design or publish games. I'd rather see insults about his status as a no-talent bootlicking hack then personal attacks on his alleged behavior outside of the office.

[Wiseman]

Wow...

Did they seriously fail to deliver on every single one of their promises?!

[CapnTthePirateG]

Wow...

Did they seriously fail to deliver on every single one of their promises?!

Why is this in any way surprising?

[Wiseman]

It's just the sheer magnitude of the failure. Didn't 4E at least do some?

[Covent]

I fell dirty but I coul not resist the mlp/d&d shirt.

[Grek]

Wow...

Did they seriously fail to deliver on every single one of their promises?!

No. They did the stuff under the campaign system header. It wasn't good, but it did happen which is honestly a huge step up from the rest of 5e. It's in the DMG. Downtime, landlording, business rules, spreading rumours, being a priest, holding down a job. It's there and the rules are no worse than the rules for anything else in 5e. ISP is not only a terrible human being, but objectively wrong in this case.

[OgreBattle]

Wow...

Did they seriously fail to deliver on every single one of their promises?!

What were those promises suppose to be, I forgot

[Username17]

5e's business running rules are those ones where it's objectively bad to grow your business because costs rise and profits don't, right?

That's not the same as simply not getting written at all, like most of the modules that were promised. But it's not all that different.

-Username17

[Chamomile]

5e's business running rules are those ones where it's objectively bad to grow your business because costs rise and profits don't, right?

It's not at all clear what happens when you have two shops, but it's definitely true that having a cheap shop is exactly as profitable as having an expensive guild hall, despite the latter having significantly higher expenses if your profit roll goes sour.

[Grek]

5e's business running rules are those ones where it's objectively bad to grow your business because costs rise and profits don't, right?

Bingo.

[infected slut princess]

No one gives a fuck about 5e. Mike Mearls and his friends are all fucking losers. Mearls is probably still a virgin.

Some A+ Quality insults. Let's insult people who we are like 99% sure have in fact had sex for being virgins. That way we can both emphasize that people are worthless if they don't have sex, and also that we are delusional and incapable of realizing that of course the guy who made a bunch of money not designing games but being paid to anyway probably is capable of the base level of charisma necessary to convince another human being to have sex with him.

So in other words, Kaelik is a sad virgin, and there is a good chance Mike Mearls has had more sexual experiences than Kaelik. That is the only possible explanation for this butthurt virgin response.

ISP is not only a terrible human being, but objectively wrong in this case.

Objectively wrong about what? I was wondering if they ended up doing any of that stuff.

All I remember the stuff about running a business in the DMG I think, and it was pretty bad.

EDIT:

Here are my comments on the crappy 5e "running a business" rules from a long time ago.

So yeah I got my hands on a copy of the 5e DMG.

Okay, I appreciate what they tried to do with these "Downtime" rules, but has anyone see the rules for running a business? Is it just me, or do they not make any sense?

Apparently I just roll on a table to see how much money I earn, irrespective of what the size and nature of the business is.

The maintenance costs are determined by the business, but the amount of earnings you get have no relation to the business.

The table goes something like this:

1d100 + days spent working at business (max 30) -> Result

1-20 -> pay 1.5x maintenance cost for each day
21-30 -> pay full maintenance cost for each day
31-40 -> Pay half maintenance cost for each day
41-60 -> breakeven on cost for each day
61-80 -> cover cost for each day. Earn a profit of 1d6x5 gp.
81-90 -> cover costs for each day. Earn profit of 2d8x5 gp.
91 or higher -> cover costs for each day. Earn profit of 3d10x5 gp.

What the fuck is going on here? Is the profit for each day, or total, no matter how many days of management/work you put in? I think it's the latter.

It seems the best option then is to have a business empire of numerous farms and/or hunting lodges (lowest daily maintenance cost at 5 silver per day). You definitely DON'T want to have a rural roadside inn (20 gold per day).

Because based on the table, your profits don't scale at all to the nature of your operations. So you want the lowest costs possible in order to maximize your money. That means you only want farms and hunting lodges, and having an inn or guildhall is stupid. Which is lame, because it's cool if an adventurer owns an inn or a guildhall.

[virgil]

So in other words, Kaelik is a sad virgin, and there is a good chance Mike Mearls has had more sexual experiences than Kaelik. That is the only possible explanation for this butthurt virgin response.

No, there is indeed another explanation; which involves you being a worthless human being or some equivalent analogue.

[Zaranthan]

No, there is indeed another explanation; which involves you being a worthless human being or some equivalent analogue.

Brony?

[infected slut princess]

Ahh, another virgin whiner. A virgin named VIRGIL no less.

If you weren't such a little whiny bitch, you'd have fun with it and say "ok well being a virgin is better than being an INFECTED WHORE" but no, you and Kaelicker decided to act like babies instead. Absolutely pathetic.

Virgil, Kaelik, and Mearls should get together and start a virgin support group.

Now Virgin err I mean Virgil, you can redeem yourself by putting up some hardcore 5e hate, otherwise you will be permanently demoted to Bulk Rate Virgin Loser.

[Ice9]

It seems the best option then is to have a business empire of numerous farms and/or hunting lodges (lowest daily maintenance cost at 5 silver per day). You definitely DON'T want to have a rural roadside inn (20 gold per day).

It's amusing that they managed to fail in the same way as the Paizo downtime rules. Now admittedly, Paizo's aren't as bad, you don't actually get worse results from a larger business. But the best strategy is to get a shitload of cheap businesses like garbage dumps (Pits) and run them all separately.

In 5E, I guess you also want to roll for them separately each day, if you can do that; maybe taking alternate days off would work, but if not then running your business for the first day of downtime and shutting it down for the rest is the best option. That would give you a profit of about 16 gold/day for a farm, I think.

[Kaelik]

So in other words, Kaelik is a sad virgin, and there is a good chance Mike Mearls has had more sexual experiences than Kaelik. That is the only possible explanation for this butthurt virgin response.

Don't get me wrong, you are definitely an idiot for using virgin as an insult at all, you were supposed to grow out of that when you turned 20 at the latest, because by then you should be in the world of adults, where everyone who wants to have sex has sex without weird stupid high school hierarchy shit getting in the way.

But more important than that your criticism makes no sense, it's also super fucking dumb wrong. Mike Mearls is a person who has convinced people to give him thousands of dollars a year, perhaps even six figures, to not design games ever. He's done it for years. He's made sure someone besides him takes the blame for every failure. HE'S OBVIOUSLY FUCKING CHARISMATIC.

If he can convince people to give him thousands of dollars for nothing, surely he can master the simple art of talking to people until one of them has sex with him. Or hell, he could use the thousands of fucking dollars he convinced people to give him to pay hookers! Wholly shit kid. Do you not understand how insanely pathetic it is that you use virgin as an insult?

[Otakusensei]

An optional tactical combat system, with rules for using miniatures, rules for combat that operate like 3rd Edition or 4th Edition in that they remove DM adjudication of things like cover, and expanded, basic combat options to allow for forced movement, tanking, and so forth, as options any character can attempt. This optional system will look a bit like AD&D’s Player’s Option: Combat and Tactics book with key lessons learned from 4th Edition. Its goal is to present combat as a challenging puzzle that pits the players against the DM, capturing the best parts of 4th Edition.

I'm not sure if I would say it includes "key lessons learned from 4th Edition", but the DMG does have a section of optional combat rules. Some of them are good, like realistic diagonal movement everyone should have been using anyway. Some of them are bad, like flanking gives you advantage. All are pretty basic in an attempt to focus on ease of application over simulation which may or may not drive a certain type of player to distraction and furious anger.

I don't have the book in front of me, but I don't recall them adding a "magical tea party" mode to the DMG to fulfill the second item on the list. Now that would be good for a laugh.

[Mask_De_H]

ISP, you know you're not supposed to use the computer without your parents' permission, right?

Also, the Magical Tea Party rules for 5e are called "playing 5e".

[maglag]

5e's business running rules are those ones where it's objectively bad to grow your business because costs rise and profits don't, right?

It's not at all clear what happens when you have two shops, but it's definitely true that having a cheap shop is exactly as profitable as having an expensive guild hall, despite the latter having significantly higher expenses if your profit roll goes sour.

Well I would say it's pretty clear that you need to actually work at the business to have a chance to earn anything, so you could only simultaneously run multiple ones if you have the ability to be at multiple places at the same time.

But yeah it's pretty stupid that profit has zero relation to what the fuck you're running.

[deaddmwalking]

Being at the business doesn't necessarily imply a minimum number of gours worked. And even if it did, say, 8 hours, some people might be able to do 3 of those (like by being undead)

[phlapjackage]

Mike Mearls is a person who has convinced people to give him thousands of dollars a year, perhaps even six figures, to not design games ever. He's done it for years. He's made sure someone besides him takes the blame for every failure. HE'S OBVIOUSLY FUCKING CHARISMATIC.

On one hand, that does make a lot of sense, the idea that he MUST be charismatic to be in the position he's in now...

and yet on the other hand we have that video of him playing the dwarven rapper PC, and he's shown as the most uncharismatic jackass who confirms all of the worst stereotypes about roleplayers.

On the gripping hand, MM is still someone I want to punch in the face irrespective of his virgin-status.

[MGuy]

Mike Mearls is a person who has convinced people to give him thousands of dollars a year, perhaps even six figures, to not design games ever. He's done it for years. He's made sure someone besides him takes the blame for every failure. HE'S OBVIOUSLY FUCKING CHARISMATIC.

One one hand, that does make a lot of sense, the idea that he MUST be charismatic to be in the position he's in now...

and yet on the other hand we have that video of him playing the dwarven rapper PC, and he's shown as the most uncharismatic jackass who confirms all of the worst stereotypes about roleplayers.

On the gripping hand, MM is still someone I want to punch in the face irrespective of his virgin-status.

I know of a guy who my friends had call me in order to introduce him to me. The first thing he did was shout a bunch of things at me and I immediately hung up my phone. I've known of him for the better part of 9 years. He's an idiot, he picks fights (both physical and not) with people, he's an emotional wreck, can't hold down a job, etc etc. Despite all of this he's always had a place to stay, keeps himself (mostly) off the streets, goes to a number of conventions, has regular internet access, gets laid with as much regularity as someone in a relationship (as far as I can tell) all through the power of convincing people to help him out. Being an annoying idiot, in my experience, is not evidence that someone is not charismatic.