The Gaming Den

I understand them removing Subspace Emissary; I have version 2.6 (which still has it) on speed-dial and SE causes a -lot- of freezing, even if you avoid things like selecting the Pokemon Trainer.

However, I'd like to emphasize that the only reason why people care about Project M at all is because of the promise of new characters and stages. It's in the millions of downloads right now, but back when it was in 2.6 (after they put in most of the stage and tourney player balance changes) it was in the tens of thousands. Again, the game designers saying that restoring Subspace Emissary is a low priority just highlights how delusional the Smash culture is.

Surgo wrote:

Shrapnel wrote:Marth, who was my main in Brawl, has been neutered to the point of licking bitchrods.

I'm not sure if this is a clever troll or I'm really just that retarded, lol.

Well, Surgo, since I hold your opinion in fairly low regard, I don't really care what you think.

Lago PARANOIA wrote: Again, the game designers saying that restoring Subspace Emissary is a low priority just highlights how delusional the Smash culture is.

This, totally times a billion.

I don't really care how well you think of my opinion but the fact of the matter is that Marth was a top-tier character in Melee and retains all those strengths from Melee in Project M. If you think he is neutered and sucks then it probably has more to do with your lack of experience with the character and lack of technical skill than it has to with Marth.

Okay, I've spent roughly an hour and a half on random battles vs level 9 computers and I like the feel of Project M for the most part. However, I don't get some of the changes (I don't know anything about Tournament play and just play with meatspace friends).

No longer being able to grab items with a dash attack, and not being able to grab them mid air with an aerial feels really weird as I have to press a different button for grabbing items depending on whether I'm on the ground or the air. I don't see the point of this change. I really miss Wario's bike, but I liked the other changes he got. I don't get why they decided to get rid of gliding and replace a special instead (especially annoying as Pit and Charizard have different directional specials for gliding). I don't know why they didn't just nerf Pit's side special instead and give Charizard a new special.

Shrapnel wrote:Also, the fact that they broke up the Pokemon Trainer's Pokemon into separate characters makes them suck so much ass (they are mostly weak on their own and the lack of a final smash is incredibly fucking retarded).

I don't mind the splitting so much, but the lack of a final smash is just plain stupid. I don't know how the coding works, but fixing this should really be a priority. I like Ivysaur's Solar Beam and Charizard's Seismic Toss but Bubble seems kinda lame.

Some of the new/modified stages just being Final Destination with more platforms and different aesthetics seems kinda pointless.

Is there a way to pick and choose stages between Brawl and Project M?

Overall, if I can replace some of the stages with the Brawl ones, I think I'll stick to Project M. As much as I love the idea of Subspace Emissary, the enemies and stages in it feel a bit too samey IMO for multiple playthroughs (additionally, 4 player co op would make it more fun). It sucks that that the new Smash won't even try as it's an amazing idea with tons of potential.

Lago PARANOIA wrote:I understand them removing Subspace Emissary; I have version 2.6 (which still has it) on speed-dial and SE causes a -lot- of freezing, even if you avoid things like selecting the Pokemon Trainer.

However, I'd like to emphasize that the only reason why people care about Project M at all is because of the promise of new characters and stages. It's in the millions of downloads right now, but back when it was in 2.6 (after they put in most of the stage and tourney player balance changes) it was in the tens of thousands. Again, the game designers saying that restoring Subspace Emissary is a low priority just highlights how delusional the Smash culture is.

These guys have done some great work and the costumes, moves, etc. show that they're really into Nintendo. It's too bad they're too preoccupied with balance issues to fix stuff like Final Smashes for the Pokemon and Subspace Emissary. Maybe if more people knew about Project M and Smash 4 wasn't so nearby (takes away a lot of the potential hype about Project M), they'd listen more to the non tourney fans.

Surgo wrote:I don't really care how well you think of my opinion but the fact of the matter is that Marth was a top-tier character in Melee and retains all those strengths from Melee in Project M. If you think he is neutered and sucks then it probably has more to do with your lack of experience with the character and lack of technical skill than it has to with Marth.

I had a hard time using Marth in Melee, especially his side special. In Brawl, I found him to be much more playable. In Project M, he's not so easy to use anymore (to me): thus, my perception of him being weaker. Perhaps neutered was the wrong word to use, and maybe he really is better in Melee/Project M, maybe not, but to me he seemed to be better in vanilla Brawl.

Neutered is definitely the wrong word. He's really good in both games but he has no projectiles and lives or dies by his good dash and finicky spacing. It's really tough to argue that the game with nerfed dashes is his preferred environment.

Perhaps we should split this conversation off into a separate thread? I mean, Pokemon and League of Legends and what not all have their own topics here, so why not Smash?

rampaging-poet wrote: Also, several characters have "start running" animations that let them move faster than simply running in a straight line. This results in high-skill players spamming forward and back to move faster than just holding the control stick forward. In response, Brawl introduced a chance of tripping whenever you start running to a) include randomness the tournament players can't turn off and b) nerf counter-intuitive stutter-steps without having to eliminate their root cause.

That is not what dash-dancing (dashing back and forth so you never leave your "I'ma start running" animation) is meant for. Except in smash 64, which is hilarious, janky, broken beyond belief (every character can 0-death combo. All of them), and fun because of all those reasons.

In Melee, dash dancing meant you could switch direction instantly and use something called a pivot (you're considered standing still for 1/60th of a second [the exact frame you switch direction] during a dash dance, letting you use any move) to fuck with your opponent. It was also a positioning tool and made Marth's cape look neat.

Anyways...


On the Project M creators being delusional or something for not including subspace emissary: The fuck? They made the game. They took feedback from the top players and spent hundreds of thousands of hours (I know they probably did not actually spend this much time, it's more than a million) building a better game. And they did it for free.

You know why they did it? They loved Melee and the additions Brawl had and wanted to mix the two together so they could have tournaments. They didn't do it to play subspace. You get subspace when somebody who cares about subspace obsesses over the game. Most casual players are not like that.

Don't insult people for not liking what you like, they didn't build Project M for Lago. They built it for tournyfags like me. Saying "tournyfags suck for not making subspace in their tournyfag game" is like me saying casuals players suck for not coming to tournaments. I don't expect casual players to go out of their way to help the tournament scene. Why should the inverse be true?


For seeing casual people like Brawl or Melee: I've seen a pretty even split (mostly "I love final smashes/new characters" vs "I love faster gameplay and masturbate to Mewtwo in my spare time". The main difference is how much fun each game is at a competitive level. That and how fun 99 stock pokeball only matches are. Melee has more fun pokeball matches.



Smash 4 looks fucking weird, but I've been hiding from information on it so I don't get really high or low expectations. The weird characters are all I've heard about it. I'm down with Wii Fit trainer, but pac man is going to do what exactly? Motherfucker doesn't even have limbs.

The term "tournyfag" fits you oh so well. Truly.

My bad about dash-dancing. I don't really watch the tournament scene and misremembered some character guides on Gamefaqs. Even without being anywhere near tournament level they helped with some of the events and challenges.

rampaging-poet wrote:My bad about dash-dancing. I don't really watch the tournament scene and misremembered some character guides on Gamefaqs. Even without being anywhere near tournament level they helped with some of the events and challenges.

I wouldn't expect people who didn't actively play competitively to know the real reason behind dash dancing aside from it looking sweet. Pivoting is really difficult for not that huge of a benefit. I just wanted to clear up the misconception and/or see if you were a closet smash 64 player. That game actually has good online play.

On tournyfag: It was a really common insult along with the no items, fox only, final destination meme. It told tournament players they were playing the game wrong, which is the thing tournament players are told that they do to people.

And now I miss smash tournaments.

Pseudo Stupidity wrote:On tournyfag: It was a really common insult along with the no items, fox only, final destination meme. It told tournament players they were playing the game wrong, which is the thing tournament players are told that they do to people.

As a tourneyfag, except without all the competence, I really loved no items, fox only, final destination.

I mean, it was really funny, it totally applied, and it criticized people for the thing that they criticized others for. But fuck if you aren't still playing the game wrong if you play on fucking scorch station, or whatever the stupid name for your stupid moving fire stage is.

Kaelik wrote: As a tourneyfag, except without all the competence, I really loved no items, fox only, final destination.

I mean, it was really funny, it totally applied, and it criticized people for the thing that they criticized others for. But fuck if you aren't still playing the game wrong if you play on fucking scorch station, or whatever the stupid name for your stupid moving fire stage is.

Don't get me wrong, no items, Fox only, Final Destination was hilarious and described the tournament scene pretty well. I was just always amazed when it was used as an insult instead of a joke about how much tournament players need to remove things to cut down on random elements for tournament games.

It's not like we never played with items or played on weird stages. I always took people to Rainbow Cruise as my counterpick in tournament matches, but I also played Link so I am a shitty example of a tournyfag.

Edit: The meme actually made Fox dittos on FD popular. And they are fun, particularly when both parties are terrible at Fox.

I was about to write a reply to Pseudo Stupidity, but then I realized that I was just getting into pointless whining territory. Especially since I agree with most of the changes of Project M and think they're positive.

Don't get me wrong, I love pointless and querulous whining, but I think that was getting too anal even for me.

I love stages with predictable and usable gimmicks e.g. Big Blue and Jungle Japes (they removed the water in Project M so you can't do this there) lets you move to the left really quickly or stages where you can know in advance that something's about to happen e.g. a giant beam will be fired at a specified location in Halberd so you stay away from it and try to throw an opponent there or Bridge of Eldin as you get a ton of warning before the bomb explodes and the bridge gets rebuilt (throw opponents at the bomb, get them stuck under the bridge).

For those who don't already know, the 3DS Smash Bros. Demo is available on the Nintendo eShop.

Being a demo, it's fairly limited in scope: the only game mode available is the basic Smash mode, either Solo or Group, with the rules set at Timed Match for 2 minutes, all items on. There are five characters available: Mario, Link, Pikachu, and newcomers Villager and Mega Man, and the only stage available is Battlefield.

Regardless, it's fucking amazing... except for the fact that Nintendo's demos have an ultra-retarded 30 use limit, after which the demo becomes unusable. Just, I mean... what the fuck?

Don't turn the DS off, leave it in sleep mode when you're not playing.

I played a few rounds with some friends.

Link's really been buffed, the sword spin takes him up higher and the shield stops all projectiles. ALL.

That I can tell.

I can confirm that Arceus comes in a Masterball pokeball item. Not sure about other legendaries.

Master Balls always release Legendaries.

The list of all Pokeball Pokemon can be seen here.

Keep them .gifs coming, man. I love 'em!

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In related news, I have, as of this writing, 18 or so more uses left on my demo, and there are nine more days left till the game releases in the US. Thus, if I play it twice per day, I'll be able to make it last until October 3rd. Some observations and thougts about the game so far:

- The Villager is pretty awesome, and Mega Man can be a bit tricky to use, but once you get the hang of him he's pretty good.
- The Final Destination forms should finally shut up all those annoying whines about "gimmicky" stages.
- I don't like Mario. He's bland, generic and not very interesting as a character. That's... not really anything to do with Smash, I know, but I'm putting it out there.
- Link's shield is bullshit, especially against Mega Man.
- I love the items that grab onto opponents and drag them off stage (the Beetle and Boss Galaga), even if they are rather hard to use.
- Also, the Ore Club is de shit at smashing foes off the stage.
- What the fuck does the Racoon Leaf do?
- Arceus sounds funny.
- I love the S Flag.
- Fucking Nintendog Assist. Just fucking... Nintendog.
- There are a metric shiton of references, characters, and items from and to Kid Icarus: Uprising. Gee, I wonder why?
- No, really, there's like too many of them. We get it, Sakurai, you made a Kid Icarus game. Whoop-de-shit.

Sharpnel wrote:No, really, there's like too many of them. We get it, Sakurai, you made a Kid Icarus game. Whoop-de-shit.

You know, he pulled that same nonsense with Super Smash Bros. Brawl's Kirby and friends bullshit.