The Gaming Den

I would LOVE to play as a slime, actually. Or, ooh, how about the Dragonlord? Use his first form, and his Dragon form as his Final Smash.

Actually, even better... Psaro the Manslayer! He's, like, the lucky-bestest character in the entire history of human literature.

Shrapnel wrote:I would LOVE to play as a slime, actually. Or, ooh, how about the Dragonlord? Use his first form, and his Dragon form as his Final Smash.

Actually, even better... Psaro the Manslayer! He's, like, the lucky-bestest character in the entire history of human literature.

A slime seems most likely to be a playable character out of those, seeing as it's a really iconic creature. It would also probably play the most uniquely, since a character who is literally a blue Hershey's kiss with a smiley face would force Sakurai to come up with a creative moveset. Psaro is cooler than Mentos (tm) but he would probably end up just being a Marth clone or something, which is much less than he deserves.

That being said, as much as I don't want it to be true, I see Sora as being the most likely Squenix character to join Smash, with Sephiroth being second most likely (who Psaro would actually make a pretty good clone echo fighter for, although unfortunately I see that as extremely unlikely). Geno is maybe third place there.

Dragon Quest should be in Smash

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dn8Yb5VC7bdnji7Ye2JuJMCQMy7wCdA06idNwd6sptRkmyd0cuxrd4VKnQg/z6AAjkf+aZbOEtWsOpzjMScw+tl2LfjpShjlaySrKyuPtoVOmvM67Vad9IWQQWAIHWdiDsV86XHzu10Z1fDYUpxmpuz/ABqNHG+0it3SyGfcpI0dQIkdATm88oqBwzD/AKxe/auQW0LTsG338hz8ugqtPC7mUXVViQdjILLAUwh22Da60YfGhSdV6EHQj1B1BrnqXEbsFh6cqcr2zbLsPvAitm81nNmXVQxMyI7xAT/8X4RWrjeJZkH6swUEnxbnSRpy3HypRsPfxDFMOhaV3mFkEEeLrO0bR714xfE8Rgslu8r5R9S5EgAbo40J8iT7U05OSskc6pTjRqtN6DNY7Q2bVlXxTHO+iW01ck9PTqdKVe1XEk8D5byGdCxUyI1EqSRoddtvKkrG4lzddyzAkkdCFPLy0NM2L4elrD3TaB+hOrEzzmNp84q+NGKtdbGGeIk27bEjgVm1nN2CEUEn70SdesHffxdRViHLku30m1PkOQ9AKh2LIW2lsDcZ25xm8Ub+YHoK2YjELaQTrpoOp5en/wDa52Kn5tVtdl2FWxsLZMzbzqBz1/5rwjOGUFpzTIiCCAG0jlBqlsd67FyQwmYXxeGfFodDpp1MelXOEaTngwNFnQ66HTkIAHXSq5wyLUmxNDaVY9mb+XFqD/1EKn1B/wDUapcRm0UAwdz5f3NbuGXMt2zG4caeRFVQ0dyVudG4HojJ9i46+2bMPkworHDP9XED99T8UUflRXch9KFZZViisTUkA6ggg6giD6GufNeKFEbdHCn2Pdn5E10KaSu1fC+7Y3w37O437SY/ZsdAQfsk6eRI66SmLJaFyuEyXLM/SZzA+yBbYn8h71YYzilu0crk8ixAkKDoCx/w6TtS+/aS3msOweVU5zHNk6bjUDxGBrSxxrHsUNwx3t9pXolseEsOhOig9AapnXittS+jRlUkoxLr9J/EQUtYMMJuOpubSEBgeYliNfI0idnRdXFHDM5yojlTzCkqdPWR860YSylwhrt1zdfMtwtJljoBJ+sCARE7eleOFYu42PSSGIJQxzWDO3xpqqvBiUpNVV3OkDg1uUtQSuUs5JlnYmNT7Gt2J4EbRlrRvIPomVLp5HNuPOZ9a8WcZluoCwkod+QVxofPxVfYniSm3oRJ356eXrWWKi02zdJzTSRD4bxNVAtpabN6DQeZGnzpP7eYzvG/Vxq0Bm21b6SqJ5nf0Ec6e8HZCo9zYnT061RHsnYxqfrHeOjuzyywysFYosqw5KoGkbVpw6V058jPWla+U45xQQ8nQkazoZHUHyiplntCcgs3FGXKVdtSSsQIHI+ddkwPYbB2rb22TvDcUqzvEwfswAF1A210GpriNzhDpiGw7iHRirQZ231/zetFWau5GSNOUmordjBwDjNpsyOSGgROsqogARz8vPStti1duOwKaEaEwQDpqYM9DA8hMCofD7KZj3Y20HIE9QT1135esVIbiN2yoUFGLMIGWQoOkg6TrJ1BkzXLkkm2ludBYKbTcNbc/wBi7tWRbXQgRqSdyZ3+PLzqRguGXSmdbTZebMyrPWAxmK83sNcsX0XEkXFCrcOVTAzT9IqNNoExzr3jMe+JGfMqpOkDMSBsN4A0HhHSs84uP1meVPK7MP1WUuXLhUZR4Uzbk6TpoeevpFRcDYi5bkk+Nd5nYnX/AD/mIjXCxS4TkYyP3ojccvTyq0w1qbttQTvIjfRT85NU3a0ZGjtYfeFNNy8fNP6Z/OitfZ/e8f31H/y1P50V2qDvTi/QWW7LasHpXqsU5BC4lxFMOme5mgmAACSdC2w8gT7Uncb7ULfm1ajuolmeQGCtrPMAEQIgkjpu84nDpcXK6hh0PXkR0PnXLf0g4RLF0JbRlUoHOrHvDmMiSTtodOuvKqK2a2jLsPT8yaiSjx6y6QLd5wJML3du1PmgJJ6yZNUvDGOKvhnH0nAidlkAAE8gPwNeeKAWXdLDhkgQTE+JQxEjTcnQdKlYjs9cwtu3i2RLtplBcTETqNJ8/nWRxcn2O9hlh6OsHxba9WRu0nZsWrrFbgIAlXUjUcpE7j1B9a1dhOGj9YLbwsAkRE7+8fjTLwPsvdxbC7iFNmxoVQHxMOXWB5nXp1o4hfXD4jOiaZ2GVdgiHutB18K6DeWq+08jvouhgryoZ1kV5c5fzQu24KGxVlsgym2xcQIPiEaf5tV8+Hw9v/poD0CioGF7RWHtgpdtyBElgCPY6g1S8b7R2baHKc7NoNwsnqx0PoJNNdRWhktmd5MsOIY8XWW2q+AGY6nlmA312XnHuJHBLly1ee1diLvjTbRwIcaaCQA0a7Nqap+AY5FVcQ+hJyqu7E7NHUk/BQB1q04q7OO8UZWUh012Zdp8jsfImmjNR7kOm5duQysYE1w7jyjvP1pdGcMX/jMg/OPYV1ziuOBwVy+umaySvkWXT5mubd2pcq8GFAIjQg/4KTF1HGyKaU8k1LoUuAuZLWnNCPUlv7RUPEuQ50JIZTsYGUx8MsH3qZg8A1wMisBkZhqDBGgjTymvKYW8twKUJffQqQwJ8O5E7RG+lUyfEdvCYiDpqF7NXf8APZ/I5YLFvi7jYmxjLVq5CqLLSVKoNPFI1JzcudQLVzNnuQBndjlGwIOU/NZqJjcXeu5BicNkuT4HKZCSRpmMSQMuxmpcACBy/PUn4yaTET0szFi8qilHnr2XeyZjNHrUzs6c14Ea5UY/EgD86rJJJ/v8OVXfY60A1y430UEHbZQXbasqjm0Rgi9Rw7PDwO/2rrkeinux/RRUnhFnJZtqRByifU6n5k0V3YRyxS6Ct3ZLorNYqSDFJ/6ReHF7S4hS02zDDQju3IzGDzED2nSnGtOLwq3Ua1cEq4IYeR86SUcysW0ajpzU1yOKWMOpuFdcp08WnkSdoGo3IGh0py7N9nnxCBcRiA+Hs3DltoQcxEHxNJGXXYfLWtHaTgNrD37Pd5gGBmSWYsGHM7HYaCm3gIC3L1sEmRbuakk+Jcp1P3az04pVHFl1Su7ylDRMuTXIO0d8vlaND3jeq3Hn8G9a6nxq5lw95ultz75TXOOMYNmFhUXMzKUC/wAOhJOwBFWYiVrFdGN1JlRhmK6rJKmds0RqP8NSMdj3vlr15hJTJbVQMoDMBAGsHnI10q0Xiv6sWsJduZUUKpQjKXEZzscwmRprIPkagYq22JuC7aUasGuWljOjRqwXcqYk5Z1Y8jNZ4truWyjK15LTqXnZTCeEXW1IkJ+6Cx19TTbjrYXDmNzH41QdmR+wWQQRIIIgggmZB1BpjsjPaZD0P96shu13GntF9ikxb/8Au1V6lU9u9y/gKS2BlxOuY6+gA/KmrGMVwb2iZNu/p6M3er8M0fw0ruzF2I2Ltyn6xrPjHquxkas2QeEjLeurP1lb2IM/1j4VK4hYDtbk5R4gT8Dv6A/Co2QJiS0wWQRpIOqgT6ZdulWDKXUi4IYHWNNV5jpVVR6Rl6EqTi7o3Yvh7227y6z3VIBS6TmVdIKnoR1I2Nabo5iNd/8AituAxt1f2B8auDOsSNB4h11Go+W1ar1oC6wt6JEeWb/Jqhyu9eg05OXE3c8zEkxoPw1pn7OYQ/qyKRBvOAwI+qSXuf7QR7il+xhu+uJaH1j4vujf46D3roPDbH7QnlaXux0ztDv8BkHxrXg6ead+mpXyLWiiiuqKFYooqACgUUChAKvby6bYs3cjkKzAsvLMAACeUmNfLzqHwDFX7mIsyotpleDqWdF5EkmRmI1Ox9ac79lXUo6hlYQQRIIPUVGwHCrNiTaSCREkkmOgJJgeVR5cbuXMVud1bY09pf8Awl//AMtvwpN4valbJ6rcX+a2/wDanriuHNyxdtr9J7bKPVlIFc9F1TbtGL4K3ACHMqsyh16w3U1RiYXje+yZpozsnG25SqBlUjmoP41f4Th1o4Y4gyXRrZBJ2EiQPLSlqx9EA8gB8NKacCT+ov62x/uIquDu2enx6/p016fqXeCbW5/5tz5uTVtwttWHlVFgb2S5dE29LjaGSTrPL1IqxwzZZuG/bQbarqOe7N+VWRpSvmPNSrQccpT8eXKzoR4bgT2a3cA+auT/AA1R3UlmCayVZZ551DfjNWfaQJcBNp7l1vCVYjw5s0kbBRI0061XOwzq4OrKOfND4fiGH8tY8ZBxsVOSk2yA6qLyd4xEqNMpOeDqPDsdOemtTGRmJuMCrXCzR95i3ymKY7du2xFwKuYjeBPmK8cRyi2Sygga+mm/+da5/nXtEs8rQV79lpVrbZWEg+YMHQ8joPnWvDoVBDGTJ/HSppAkldp0n5VFtDMxE+Hc+h5evLy1qyN2iplx2ZOQticuY/Rtj7THRQPUkGeh8qfOG4Y2raoTLalj9p2OZj7kmqPsrhxcVbuUBUkII0Z9mf21UereVMtdjCQcYa8xZWCiiitRAVis0UoGKBRQKFuBmiiimAK5x2ktmw921HhZ1uIegZs0x0Dgj4V0eljtvg8ypcA5PbbyFxfD/vCj+Kqa0c0C2lK0u5z7GIVYaAZgGIE6EzOhJIEz+OgIFS8Fj2C92ZyAqSNQCcxIzGD0MDTXn11X2UgMN219c3i1+JH8NSuGpb7q4zR3gNvuzJBnN4gI5bfKsaTenoekm83h612t8llwu0jXrouLJF1gZJ25c/MUx43DWMPdsMtq2FdspMAxIkHWqjifDmtp+uJqMzi6P3e9bK48oIB8oPKrDgFlcSve3jMSqA/Vg5SfvaHXkD61bFSi8n2ODwyipfcldpV/09N7ln/6q0qcQwmQXLGua0/hjcqBIjzNpviKauI2chtLJKi7aj0LiPnXjtVwguVxNpSXSAwG5UayOrLJ05gnnFFWm6kHbdMqnpbsUvB8SoUW5A+z5j860cYxysO6Bn7UbGDt6dapMWupuK3hMkASAD+6RtrOnXpFarYcgBQJ92j2gVyfJ1uHmO1iVfuiMgEluXLzJ8h/m9S+A8Me+y2Qx18V1huqc4PImMo9J5V44Twm5ebLZXMdnuN9FfU+X2R8t66LwfhaYa2LaandmO7t1P5DkK34bDuWr2+Spsl2bQRQqgBVAAA5AaCvdFFdQgKKKKACiiioAxQKKBUIDNFFFMAVV9ph/wCy3fJZ+BBrdxrHnD2HvBM+QTlmJ1jeud9t+0zYnCW7lksmS8ovWp+lIlNvpLI28xpStrYdQllz20RnGcOZWkKTbbVWALFSTLBgNYmSCBpMHoZXCrGVGiXCtnyqDq6jwyWAgDpzmovDe2VtrCZ7eVg0TnETzGoEVK49+kAdyy2UUvG858scyFED3PxrNCjJbmmWLtDJF8L5Dvcw6NhTbBlGtET1DLv66zSp2fCi2pvTkbxSNIJEkHynWfOttrGDAcHRrzM7NbIXrmvSyjXkoMei+1S+Ahb2CJUg+H+kT+VPWjdr3K6Ekk/Y3BXxKMwGUkTbGvhCkG2T5yAT6xV5w/FC7bW4BE7j7LAww9iCPaqrgPELIXKbtsMAJBZQdB0moHC+LTxF8PYdWstba4w/fBVZU9NY6EyaaltfqJW0duhcY3s9h7pLFMrHdkOUk9SBoT6itGH7K4ZTLB7n32ke6iAfcVeUU+SLd7FR4s2lQBUUKo2AAAHoBXuiinAKKKKACiiigArFZoqAMUCs0UAFFFFSBB45az4e8vW2/wDSa4o+GN22crQZUgzADDVZPIGSJOxynlXceI/6Vz7jf0muI8KxLoyFDB09D6ismIlllGR2vC6KrUqtN87fkh28eFZkxNllveQjvPvLsfXY14x7XXTJlInUWrY0UdbhHPoKfeG4NcQ4RbQDKCwhgFA2MK6Oq7/VAqr7RWxavNbkkIrbnMAZUbaDTXYCmeI4bpGaHhbdXI5DV31vFcIYsuQLaZRmIOV7QyqwP3l051yfh+OuGEQsn1mKMyZuUFVMakjWK7LZ4Jn4YMKRDNan0uH9oD/Ma5LYsqmygTvvM+cnkZ0orVMkdeZOCwSxFbheievbkMnCuGG6hyjPkTvCp+sARmAHIwdI2IFU+AxZwWLW8r57md5LE/tLTKChkciOesEbaRTV2CxeW6g+0GQ/1D8BVj2w4basRcQEFixiRlU6ElQQSpJMmCNdaroyy03I146j5mKjTt27c1+g2cIx4xFlLwUrmmQeRUlWE84IOtTKouw6gYGzHRj8XY1e1sTurnEnHLJoKKKKkUKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigCNxM/sbn3G/pNcPwO6fw13W/aDqyHZgQfQiDXGMRww4bFHDmH7tljxKhdSAVPiMDTTfkax4uDklY7ngteFNzUnuvgeOw1rx3H6KF+Jk/hStxFTiMTA/6l5E9mJZvkR8Kv7PayzhkKphXUncF1JJ25Ek+wrT2E4acQ5xLyq2rhKrzLlRBJ5AKdutLGF1GC9x5VnGVStJWurL7PodCAriXFsPkv3U6XXH+8/lXbq5F2ysNbxt6QQGYOp5MComP4pFPi1eF/Up8DnlxDXVfseezzG3eHlcT+r+1Of6QR+yT+L8qT+HpN1GH1ig95FN/bu4Cirr4ZkkeESNNeulUUv7UkdHFf5lKXcs+xqxgrH3PxJNXVU3Y9SMFYBBHg+UmPlVzXQjsjzFX633YUUUUwgUUUUAFFFFABRRRUAYoFFAqLgZooopgPLsACSYAEk9AK5jwjhKcSxV2/dNyHLMIIBCiAg1BjSPnTR284n3dkWE+nekHyQfSPvovuelRuyjph8PcvNG4UDSTA0HuSfhWapJOaj7s6eFpuFCVVbvhj+RbxvDrmHz2EcgyVjIAWtsZzZwsbaTM76U0/o5zCxctn6t1oP3gGPzPzpevYi9ibxCIXuHVo0W2vLMx0UfOnXsng+6wtsN9Jpdj1L68/KB7VFFNyzLYsx0oxpKDd5XV/t/suKXu23CBiMOWmGszcU6xoPECBvI/KmGoHH1Jw18Dc2n/AKTWiSurM5dOTjJNbnIMDjhIlWkER+0ZMv47e9Tsfjc6w1xnmIJ79wpkTrdhYjMdBOlHBYB0AjQjT3px/SCgbDr0Ob5gVgpvhcuh6PEwaqwg27u+t9Pt/wAG20gAAEQAAI206V6qJwhybFonc20J/lFS66J5kKKKKACiiigAooooAKxWawagAoFFAqAM1H4hjEsW2u3DCqJPn0A8ydKkVSdreFXMVZW3aZQQ4ZpnxAA6fEg+1S720GgouSzbcxewfA/14PjMW5QtomuiKOWvL/nrVLh+Fs13urT5xMBo1jlEnUnkDtvsDTPh+y19oF68uUaBRJA9pHyIph4bwq3YHgGu06c9TEbfiYEzWdUb2zHRnjVC6pvtpov3ZScM7NXbbkF0ForBC5i2s5hJ5nSX3Oug0hoURoKzRWg5rbbuwqLxU/sLs/8Abf8ApNSq0Y2z3lt7f2lZf5gRQC3OP8JuAbmPCN6ce1WMS9hV7p0d0HiVWEiV6T1096QMNbMrnnSAR0jQg10TDdm8O2HF7VWylp0iR5R5VzqSfFE9RjJwXlVX7fYZeDuGsWiNjbSP5RUyqrss04Sz5IB7LoPwq1roo8u1Z2CiiipICiiigAooooAKKKKgDFAooFQBmiiimAKKKKACiiigAooooA5t244MbN3v0H7O4dYH0W3Px3+PSto40zYVMLbE3HMfEyB6SafsXhkuobdxZU7j8IPI+dVvC+zeHw7Z7amZmTGnwAn3mqXR4sy57m+njmqKpyV7O8X0LHA4YWraWhsihfgIrfRRVxgCiiigAooooAKKKKAP/9k=[/img]


...ideally I'd want Square Enix vs Arc System Works the fighting game with DBFZ style graphics

I know I bring up a lot, but it's only because this is important to me...

If Sakurai does not put DQ in Smash, then someone needs to cast Kathwack on him.

Alis before that. Then Nei (with Neifirst Echo).

Alis... do you mean Alus/Alys/Phillip from Phantasy Star? She'd be a good choice, too, but PS wouldn't exist if not for Dragon Quest. It is the ur-JRPG.

As an aside... Sakurai has said they're gonna slow down character reveals. I'm hoping this doesn't mean that aren't any more newcomers..

Shrapnel wrote:Alis... do you mean Alus/Alys/Phillip from Phantasy Star? She'd be a good choice, too, but PS wouldn't exist if not for Dragon Quest. It is the ur-JRPG.

Depends on who you ask. Final Fantasy came right after in Japan and was actually released outside Japan before Dragon Warrior Quest. So for anyone outside of Japan, Final Fantasy was the ur-JRPG.

And let's be honest, the first Dragon Quest is really, really rough around the edges. The first Final Fantasy was a much better game all around that really showed the potential of JRPGs, and there's a reason why it ended much more popular.

Plus order of release doesn't mean much for Smash. Cloud is from Final Fantasy VII after all.

Following on that Dragon Warrior Quest really lacks an iconic super-popular character that stands out in their games, while Allis and Nei actually stand out in their series, getting multiple expies (Nei in particular inspiring the whole newmen/newearl race).

Shrapnel wrote: As an aside... Sakurai has said they're gonna slow down character reveals. I'm hoping this doesn't mean that aren't any more newcomers..

Well, they're already bringing back everybody from previous games plus a bunch of newcomers so I don't really see that many new reveals remaining.

Also gotta save something for DLC.

maglag wrote:The first Final Fantasy was a much better game all around that really showed the potential of JRPGs, and there's a reason why it ended much more popular.

In the West, absolutely. But is that true in their origin-country of Japan? Going by anecdotes, Dragon Quest (what with it having more of that mysterious foreign exotic "medieval Europe" flavour) is (or at least was, as far as the PS2 era) more popular and better-known.

Koumei wrote:

maglag wrote:The first Final Fantasy was a much better game all around that really showed the potential of JRPGs, and there's a reason why it ended much more popular.

In the West, absolutely. But is that true in their origin-country of Japan? Going by anecdotes, Dragon Quest (what with it having more of that mysterious foreign exotic "medieval Europe" flavour) is (or at least was, as far as the PS2 era) more popular and better-known.

Considering side material, it seems "was" is quite correct. Dragon Quest did get some animes in the 90s (which didn't credit Toriyama so it got a lawsuit). Then a movie in 1996 and...That's it.

Final Fantasy meanwhile got an OVA in 1994, the 2001 movie, 2005 Advent Children that may just be one of the best depictions of what a high level Fighter/sword dude should be, and the most recent Final Fantasy XV got two animated tie-ins.

So Dragon Quest may've been more popular at start in Japan, but seems like that popularity didn't last.

Like the first 3 Dragon Quests came out in 3 years but then slowed down and Final Fantasy kept releasing new games at a more steady pace until having both more main series and spin-offs. Also two Final Fantasy MMORPGs to one Dragon Quest MMORPG.

Dragon Quest started off to promote Shonen Jump's new gaming magazine. Toriyama Akira's editor then contacted Enix on how he can bug Toriyama into working on a video game:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/olliebarde ... gon-quest/

Sooo.... Where was the "unidentified, new Squenix character", hmm?

Suck it, Geno fans.

The big antagonist of Ultimate being a seraphim is cool

Also Sakurai confirming "yeah they're just toys fighting in somebody's imagination".

Shrapnel wrote:Sooo.... Where was the "unidentified, new Squenix character", hmm?

Suck it, Geno fans.

Never having played Super Mario RPG and having enjoyed Pokemon Sun/Moon, I would rather have had Geno in the game than Incineroar. We already have a lot of fire-themed guys and a lot of beefy punch men, and it's not cool enough to make up for the lack of uniqueness (since it's really just "somehow every Fire/Fighting Pokemon ever, despite not actually being Fire/Fighting.") Geno would probably do stuff more interesting than that (unless Sakurai really fucked the character up). I'll admit that it's better than Sora, though. But I would have taken most Gen VII Pokemon over either. Decidueye or Mimikyu would have been my pick for Gen VII rep.

The Pirahna Plant is kinda cool though, if not just because of how weird a character it is. Ken is too obvious Ryu clone Echo Fighter material to save as part of a final set of reveals.

The inclusion of an Adventure Mode is definitely the most interesting reveal, though, and that alone was probably worth having 2 of the last 3 characters revealed not being terribly interesting.

What gets me is that the entire internets was taking the whole "there's gonna be 11 new fighters announced before the game's release!" and "there's totally gonna be a new Squenix character!" as an absolute fact... and then we only get two newcomers, neither of which have nothing to do with either Square Soft or Enix.

Anywhy, I honestly don't mind Incineroar. At least it has the whole "Dark-type heel wrestler" thing going for it, as opposed to "shonen martial-artist" that all the other Fire/Fighting starters got going on. And it's a kitty. Oh, and get this: One of it's alternate costumes is it's shiny coloration! For the first time, a Pokemon in Smash can be properly shiny!

Besides which, Mimikyu's already in the game as a Pokeball summon, and I sincerely think Decidueye is the most boring of the Gen VII starters. And it's in Pokken Tournament already, so we already have a fighting game with it in it.

My personal pick would've been for Primarina, since she is the most wealthy, beautiful and liberal of Pokemon of all. But since we live in a world where Trump is president, Toys R Us is gone and centipedes exist, we can't get what we want.

Weren't there heaps of leaks, but then Sakurai killed them because he said not to leak them and also he's kind of a dick (I can relate) and hates the Smash playerbase (I can relate)?

That said, Piranha Plant is pretty rad. Have you seen the hand puppets you can get for that thing? We need some proper character development.

maglag wrote:Also Sakurai confirming "yeah they're just toys fighting in somebody's imagination".

Wasn’t that confirmed by the ending cinematic of the first Smash Bros where your character turns into a statue and gets put away in a toy chest?

I've always felt that was dumb. Why can't the various characters from other universes be fighting just because? Why do we need a bullshit, stupid explanation of "it's not really happening?"

Zaranthan wrote:

maglag wrote:Also Sakurai confirming "yeah they're just toys fighting in somebody's imagination".

Wasn’t that confirmed by the ending cinematic of the first Smash Bros where your character turns into a statue and gets put away in a toy chest?

The first Smash Bros opening was Master Hand pulling a Mario and Pikachu plushies from said toy chest, putting them on a table, adding some blocks and then it turned into a match. But it was just shown, while this time we have the main author explicitly confirming it.

Shrapnel wrote:I've always felt that was dumb. Why can't the various characters from other universes be fighting just because? Why do we need a bullshit, stupid explanation of "it's not really happening?"

Honestly "just because" is also stupid bullshit.

Plus I didn't say "it's not really happening" but more that it's happening in some dream reality. The smash fighters may not be the actual characters, but they have wills of their own and eventually every game try to break free. First from the Master Hand that's seemingly setting up their battles, representing the dreamer, the person setting up the toys. Then later there's Taboo that just wants to seal everything, probably representing the dreamer's subconscious trying to supress their own imagination and "childish" things such as toys. Then there was the next final boss that just bursts out from inside Master Hand in a rampage but where the final phase is them just giving up and letting themselves be beaten up, like the dreamer's finally snapping. And now a glowing seraphim with an army of Master Hands that opens up by nuking everybody.

As demonstrated by the Kirby series with multiple eldritch abominations running around behind the scenes as most of the game's "true" bosses, Sakurai loves to make plots inside plots and we may never know how deep the rabbit hole goes.

Alternate alternate interpretation:

What I'm saying is that it's all happening in a dream reality instead of actual reality is the same as all those bullshit "oh, this cartoon or anime is really just the main character's dying coma fantasy" fan theories. It's a refusal to engage in the fantastical by saying that it can only happen in a dream or some other similar false reality state in which the events aren't "real", because such events are "implausible".


Like, just go the Marvel Vs. Capcom route and make it be that Tabuu or the seraphim thing or Master Hand or Søren Kierkegaard are causing all these various universes to crossover and merge or some shit. It isn't that difficult.

Shrapnel wrote:What gets me is that the entire internets was taking the whole "there's gonna be 11 new fighters announced before the game's release!" and "there's totally gonna be a new Squenix character!" as an absolute fact... and then we only get two newcomers, neither of which have nothing to do with either Square Soft or Enix.

Fan speculation is like that. And honestly 9 less fighters than some people were expecting doesn't seem like something to celebrate unless the 9 fighters were all going to be Tingle or something.

Anywhy, I honestly don't mind Incineroar.

Oh, I don't mind it as a Pokemon, or even its inclusion in Smash. I just think there were way better picks.

At least it has the whole "Dark-type heel wrestler" thing going for it, as opposed to "shonen martial-artist" that all the other Fire/Fighting starters got going on.

Emboar (the most recent Fire/Fighting starter) also had a wrestler vibe to it (it's literally wearing a wrestling leotard).

Oh, and get this: One of it's alternate costumes is it's shiny coloration! For the first time, a Pokemon in Smash can be properly shiny!

That's admittedly good, but could be the case with literally any Pokemon if Sakurai didn't hate shinies for whatever reason. So that's more an indictment of Sakurai to me than a celebration of Incineroar.

Besides which, Mimikyu's already in the game as a Pokeball summon,

Fair enough. I was talking about what I thought would be interesting to include rather than what had a chance to be in the game, but I didn't specify that.

and I sincerely think Decidueye is the most boring of the Gen VII starters.

I honestly don't see how "wrestling tiger" is more interesting than "archer owl." But that's entirely subjective, so I'll concede the point.

And it's in Pokken Tournament already, so we already have a fighting game with it in it.

So is Lucario, and Pikachu, and Mewtwo. And possibly others that I can't remember since I don't have Pokken. I don't think that's a good argument for or against a character's inclusion.

My personal pick would've been for Primarina

That's another good one.

Koumei wrote:Weren't there heaps of leaks, but then Sakurai killed them because he said not to leak them and also he's kind of a dick (I can relate) and hates the Smash playerbase (I can relate)?

This is somewhat of a tangent, but in my opinion showing open contempt for your fanbase is the worst thing that a creator can do. It makes them sound like whiny babies. Of course, Sakurai is basically the definition of whiny baby, so that's to be expected from him (case in point: tripping in Brawl).

To be fair, the Smash fandom is pretty reprehensible, up there with Bronies and Sonic the Hedgehog fans.

Smash Bros adopts the Shin Megami Tensei/Gnostic Christianity view of the 'the creator' as a deceiver who has trapped immortal souls on the material plane to rule them as playthings.

Kirby arose from the primordial that existed 'before creation' and now battles against the deimurge

First DLC character revealed

Sakurai's pretty chill including a recent sony exclusive character. Hope this brings some Persona games to the Switch in the future.