OSSR: Changeling: the Dreaming

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Mask_De_H
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OSSR: Changeling: the Dreaming

Post by Mask_De_H »

The theme for this OSSR is Eurythmics - Sweet Dreams. I'd use the Manson cover but the man at the FLGS said this was the bright spot of the World o' Darkness, so there you go.

A little background knowledge: my FLGS has a huge wall of White Wolf books (they even had WoD: Gypsies for fuck's sake). Buying Gypsies would have made me feel dirty so I went with the next best thing in Changeling, off some half remembered Frankism on its creepiness. The guy at the shop was really enthusiastic about it, which might say negative things about his character. I've got some tequila, I've got this book, and I've got no idea what I'm about to get myself into. Here we go.

Image

We start out with a picture of a desk with a handwritten note on what it is to be Kithain which I cannot read and floppy disks that namedrop several Shakespeare characters. The note goes on for several pages, surrounded by random objects like those old I Spy books. There's a bokken on page five and I have no idea why. Koumei provides the art on page 8 and I am already rapidly running out of fucks to give here so I'm going to move on to

Book One - Childling

We start, as WW products often do, with some intro text. It sounds like it's about a little kid doing little kid stuff but then they talk about Courts and pomegranate brandy and I'm getting a Michael Jackson vibe out of this already.

So the thrust of Changeling is that it's about the Dreaming, which is basically the reality floobiness that you're aiming for in oMage, as far as I can tell. It's a game about "lost innocence and the cynicism of adulthood" and I'm going to need an adult by the time this is over aren't I? WW gives you the storytelling patter and tells you you're caught between the boring human world and the batshit world of the Fae and you eventually succumb to Banality (loss of wonderment) or Bedlam ("Go crazy? Don't mind if I do!").

An interesting thing to note among the standard pretentious White Wolf intro stuff is they tell the ST it's their job to make sure the other players have a good time. That's obvious, but given what I've heard of STs this fell on deaf ears. They hit you with the lexicon/slang section and apparently the path to real ultimate power is being a child. Apparently Changelings work on Magical Girl logic.

As always, WoD is a gothic punk horror game, which doesn't seem to jive with being magical fairy children but what the fuck. You're aiming for Arcadia, where magic and wonderment and shit happen. And back in the day, again, like oMage, magic and wonderment happened on Earth too until the Sundering fucked that up for everybody. This leads to the Shattering, which is where mean old logic and reason fucks the Fae into either going to the Dreaming or staying on Earth. You really get the sense that the White Wolf designers were beat up by engineers in high school or something. But then the Moon landing sparks everyone's imagination and faerie magic comes back. Since this is the World of Darkness, shit goes crazy between Earthbound and Arcadia fey and there's a bloody civil war. There's something about a New York guy who becomes king of the fae but who gives a fuck?

Anyway, you're a faerie. This means your power source is Glamour and the thing that gives you the bad touch is Banality. To awaken to your true nature, you trip balls and spew Glamour everywhere. Sometimes this drives you mad, sometimes it turns you into the main antagonist, you know how this goes. There are nine flavors of faerie, either because three and three again or because that's just how White Wolf rolls. They are: busy-body Boggans, token black raconteur Eshu, ugly Nockers, annoying Pooka, unliked Redcaps, cake and blowjobs Satyr, beautiful people Sidhe, constantly whispering Sluagh and stubborn Trolls. They talk about households and freeholds and coats of arms and shit, they're really pushing the feudalism angle hard. You've got the Seelie Court, which is hidebound and honorable and the Unseelie Court, which embraces change and doesn't care about your rules man. They discuss titles within society, rules of society, various groups you can be a part of, the usual. I am once again running out of fucks to give but the chapter is over so woo.

The chapter on Storytelling is what you'd expect: keep things interesting, don't railroad, let the players add to the world, set up the playspace nicely, all of that shit. They then discuss themes: Isolation/Alienation, Family, Romance, Wonder, Nightmares, Freedom/Wildness, Madness and Humor.

Those last two together like that worries me because Fishmalks. This whole list worries me because it seems like there are two different games this is trying to be. On one hand, you're supposed to be an outcast but there's a whole society you're indoctrinated into. They want you to go crazy and fear what's out there, but what's out there has to be able to be vanquished by noble heroes. It's kind of a mess. They drop the Hero's Journey on you and then give you some story and campaign hooks before giving you the advanced techniques. They tell you to roleplay dreams and set up a play within a play, which is hard enough in a regular story and seems dodgy in a collaborative storytelling environment. I see they add a random element with tarot cards and wonder if that's where Frank got the advancement system for After Sundown from.

Finally, they end with crossover potentials, which blows my mind since I thought the WoD games don't play nicely with each other.

And that's book one. Next is how to actually play the damn game. So far there's nothing too alarming, although I am worried about the whole adult children thing.

[/b]
Last edited by Mask_De_H on Sat Sep 06, 2014 1:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
FrankTrollman wrote: Halfling women, as I'm sure you are aware, combine all the "fun" parts of pedophilia without any of the disturbing, illegal, or immoral parts.
K wrote:That being said, the usefulness of airships for society is still transporting cargo because it's an option that doesn't require a powerful wizard to show up for work on time instead of blowing the day in his harem of extraplanar sex demons/angels.
Chamomile wrote: See, it's because K's belief in leaving generation of individual monsters to GMs makes him Chaotic, whereas Frank's belief in the easier usability of monsters pre-generated by game designers makes him Lawful, and clearly these philosophies are so irreconcilable as to be best represented as fundamentally opposed metaphysical forces.
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Post by TheFlatline »

Yeah you'll hit some creepiness. It's not like... super explicit, but the ramifications of playing a 3000 year old fae in desperate love with someone but you're in a 5 year old's body is just... yeah.

It's also home to one of the worst tropes of WoD after FishMalk: The Pookah. For some reason it's the only thing people remember when they are exposed to Changeling. Usually because if they played changeling, a pookah probably destroyed the game. And if they heard of a game, it was probably from someone who was disgruntled because a pookah had destroyed the game.

As for the madness thing, think moreso American McGee's Alice if you want an example of a "dark" changeling story. I always tried to remind people, yeah, children are whimsical and imaginative, but I remember nightmares from being a kid, and there are few nightmares like a kid's nightmares, only in Changeling, if the right kid dreams of the Big Bad Wolf, it comes alive and starts eating children for realsie yo.
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Post by Mask_De_H »

Yeah, the Pookah come off immediately as Kender-level annoyances. And even though I watch anime, I'll never really come to terms with the "I swear, she's really 500!" thing.
FrankTrollman wrote: Halfling women, as I'm sure you are aware, combine all the "fun" parts of pedophilia without any of the disturbing, illegal, or immoral parts.
K wrote:That being said, the usefulness of airships for society is still transporting cargo because it's an option that doesn't require a powerful wizard to show up for work on time instead of blowing the day in his harem of extraplanar sex demons/angels.
Chamomile wrote: See, it's because K's belief in leaving generation of individual monsters to GMs makes him Chaotic, whereas Frank's belief in the easier usability of monsters pre-generated by game designers makes him Lawful, and clearly these philosophies are so irreconcilable as to be best represented as fundamentally opposed metaphysical forces.
Whipstitch wrote:You're on a mad quest, dude. I'd sooner bet on Zeus getting bored and letting Sisyphus put down the fucking rock.
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Post by Username17 »

Most people are viscerally repulsed by the Pookah because they are pranking furries who use baby talk all the time. That's not unfair. But personally, I am way more squicked by the Satyr. It's been too long for me to remember if it's in this book, the player's guide, the kithbook, or what, but the Satyr secret Art is called "aphrodesia." And they are still kids.

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Re: OSSR: Changeling: the Dreaming

Post by Koumei »

I know one person ever who played a Pookah, and they went for maximum Willpower. Not just because in oWoD it let you put an auto-success on any task ever and thus was awesome, but because she could then spend a point every single scene where telling the truth was important. Because it's that annoying a trait to have. You'd almost think it was a shitty idea to put in a game and that she should have picked something else. Both of those thoughts are correct in some objective scientific sense.
Mask_De_H wrote:Koumei provides the art on page 8
I what now? Is it tits, drawn on a very amateur level that doesn't really belong in a professional piece, or all of the above?
Last edited by Koumei on Sat Sep 06, 2014 7:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Prak »

So where does the baby talk and prepubescent protagonist thing come from? Being a Childling isn't even particularly good, it would seem, except in the way that playing a Lupus is good, you have a couple more points of Magic Fuel than the type that can actually interact with mortal society easily. The Pookah writeup (in 2nd ed) doesn't mention any babytalk, though is definitely a Kender sort of thing. Is it an rp suggestion that changeling players are known for following, or what?
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.
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You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
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Post by Username17 »

Prak_Anima wrote:So where does the baby talk and prepubescent protagonist thing come from? Being a Childling isn't even particularly good, it would seem, except in the way that playing a Lupus is good, you have a couple more points of Magic Fuel than the type that can actually interact with mortal society easily. The Pookah writeup (in 2nd ed) doesn't mention any babytalk, though is definitely a Kender sort of thing. Is it an rp suggestion that changeling players are known for following, or what?
Well... Lupus was the correct power gamer's option for Werewolf as well. Basically, you were pretty much never meaningfully limited by being "unfamiliar with human society" or whatever the fuck, because all that shit was railroad city anyhow and whatever abilities were or were not written on your character sheet meant dick. The only time you could really influence anything with the shit on your character sheet was when it came time to roll your magic powers. So people who elected to not have a dog fucker parent for the extra free gnosis were "suckers."

Same for Changeling. If you weren't a child, you were some kind of idiot. The mechanical incentives for playing an underage sex mage weren't huge, but they were non-zero. And they were just about the only incentives that were real.

And yes, this played for real in the player base. Even one person talking in baby talk is too much for a gaming table. And in Changeling, it was pretty routine for like half the people at the table to be doing that. And the chances that one of those people would also have and be using "sex powers" was way too high.

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Post by Whipstitch »

Prak_Anima wrote: Being a Childling isn't even particularly good, it would seem, except in the way that playing a Lupus is good, you have a couple more points of Magic Fuel than the type that can actually interact with mortal society easily.
Werewolf seems like it should be a good comp, but it isn't. Glamour is kinda like gnosis, but banality isn't at all like rage. See, when you perform bunks the target number is increased by the Banality score of the target or caster, whichever is higher. If I remember correctly the standard bunk difficulty is Banality+4. Childlings start with a banality of 1 and grumps start with 5. 4 digits is a big shift when talking about a d10 system and it's enough to make childlings much better at self-casting or targeting other fae or chimera.
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Post by Sakuya Izayoi »

Those powers are for haunting, not pedophilia.
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Post by Count Arioch the 28th »

Sakuya Izayoi wrote:Those powers are for haunting, not pedophilia.
Probably taken as seriously as the "Pony is not for sexual" threads that pop up on /mlp/.
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Post by hyzmarca »

FrankTrollman wrote:
Prak_Anima wrote:So where does the baby talk and prepubescent protagonist thing come from? Being a Childling isn't even particularly good, it would seem, except in the way that playing a Lupus is good, you have a couple more points of Magic Fuel than the type that can actually interact with mortal society easily. The Pookah writeup (in 2nd ed) doesn't mention any babytalk, though is definitely a Kender sort of thing. Is it an rp suggestion that changeling players are known for following, or what?
Well... Lupus was the correct power gamer's option for Werewolf as well. Basically, you were pretty much never meaningfully limited by being "unfamiliar with human society" or whatever the fuck, because all that shit was railroad city anyhow and whatever abilities were or were not written on your character sheet meant dick. The only time you could really influence anything with the shit on your character sheet was when it came time to roll your magic powers. So people who elected to not have a dog fucker parent for the extra free gnosis were "suckers."

Same for Changeling. If you weren't a child, you were some kind of idiot. The mechanical incentives for playing an underage sex mage weren't huge, but they were non-zero. And they were just about the only incentives that were real.

And yes, this played for real in the player base. Even one person talking in baby talk is too much for a gaming table. And in Changeling, it was pretty routine for like half the people at the table to be doing that. And the chances that one of those people would also have and be using "sex powers" was way too high.

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When I first noticed that Lupus was an option in Werewolf I just assumed that all World of Darkness wolves were fully sapient. Which would have been cool. I continued believing that until I found this forum, in fact.
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Post by momothefiddler »

hyzmarca wrote:When I first noticed that Lupus was an option in Werewolf I just assumed that all World of Darkness wolves were fully sapient. Which would have been cool. I continued believing that until I found this forum, in fact.
Due, apparently, to skimming both the rulebook and the forum, I just realized I thought that until just now and am suddenly a lot more understanding of the complaints about dogfucking. Really, the whole thing works a lot better if you treat wolves as sapient. Of course, a bunch of other things fall apart, but yeah, I guess I just assumed that wolves were around the level of humans and werewolves were more 'enlightened' than either and humans didn't get it and so everyone was squicked out. But the sudden realization that wolves in WoD are just wolves is... uh... that's....

Yikes.
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Post by hyzmarca »

Whipstitch wrote:
Prak_Anima wrote: Being a Childling isn't even particularly good, it would seem, except in the way that playing a Lupus is good, you have a couple more points of Magic Fuel than the type that can actually interact with mortal society easily.
Werewolf seems like it should be a good comp, but it isn't. Glamour is kinda like gnosis, but banality isn't at all like rage. See, when you perform bunks the target number is increased by the Banality score of the target or caster, whichever is higher. If I remember correctly the standard bunk difficulty is Banality+4. Childlings start with a banality of 1 and grumps start with 5. 4 digits is a big shift when talking about a d10 system and it's enough to make childlings much better at self-casting or targeting other fae or chimera.
On the other hand, doesn't being an adult with a high banality score just let you shoot childlings in the face while ignoring their powers, since its based on the banality score of the caster or the target, whichever is higher, and you'd be old enough to buy a gun?
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Post by Koumei »

Sure, and they can give themselves the magic trick of "bullets get close to me, decide they just don't like me very much, twirl around my head and fling the other way" or whatever. Which they can do, with that Banality rating of 1, and thus TN of 5 on their dice pool of 10.

Now if you just decide to shoot that kid in the face one day*, then yes, you'll do that before they have time to use any powers. But if they go into every scene expecting to be shot in the face**, well... yeah.

*Hey, I work at a school, I understand completely.

**If they're a pain in the arse, this is fairly likely.
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Post by Whipstitch »

You can spend temporary glamour to lower the difficulty of bunk tests if you're feeling really saucy. But that's rather beside the point, really, since even if the game managed to make everyone differently viable that is still not the same thing as the game being free of serious build pressures. Children are just plain better at bunks right out of the box, so if even one person in your group really wants to be good at magic odds are you better get used to packing lunches and hearing about green eggs and ham.
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Post by Prak »

So far as I could tell, being a childling just refers to your character's physical appearance, not their actual maturity or age. So... is this really just the fact that WoD players tend to be trollish dickbags who like to pretend they don't powergame, and so they use baby talk because their minmaxing "justifies" it and they want to annoy their fellow players?
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.
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Post by Whipstitch »

Oh, no, no, no. There will always be trolls, obviously, but you're overthinking things a bit--you don't always have to gin up underhanded motives to explain weird player behavior, especially with Changeling. The bottom line here is that the fishmalk bullshit we're talking about was supported by the game to a fair degree. I mean, yes, many of these characters should be "mature" and are supposed to be dealing with some sort of trauma, but there's other counterpoints in the setting which undermine the usual notions of maturity. Remember, we're talking about a setting where you are considered to be doing actual harm by telling little Timmy that the tooth fairy isn't real. You can't throw that premise in front of a pack of perky goths and act surprised when you get a bunch of Delirium expies.
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Post by Prak »

Delirium expies would be fine. She was crazy nutso out there, but that didn't involve baby talk. But then, fishmalks exist and a lot of the same things can be applied to malkavians, so maybe I really am over thinking it.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.
Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.
FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
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Post by TheFlatline »

Prak_Anima wrote:So far as I could tell, being a childling just refers to your character's physical appearance, not their actual maturity or age. So... is this really just the fact that WoD players tend to be trollish dickbags who like to pretend they don't powergame, and so they use baby talk because their minmaxing "justifies" it and they want to annoy their fellow players?
Then you like haven't read any of the setting and are factually wrong.

The *opening fiction* shows that changelings are half fae half child. Childlings *think* like children. They *are* children. They're also millennia old fae. There's a background trait for how much of your fae personality you remember from previous incarnations.

This isn't like hidden in some arcane corner of the setting, it's prevalent throughout the entire book. The entire basic concept is that of duality: you're both a small child *and* an immortal faerie. Ignoring the child side sends you to bedlam. Ignoring the fae side makes you forget from banality.
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Post by Ancient History »

And, it should be added, this is based on "serious" real-world past-life recollection stuff - there are several accounts for supposed cases of reincarnation that supposedly show kids are more likely to "remember" past lives (just as they're more likely to "remember" Satanic ritual abuse), only to forget as they grow older.
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Post by Prak »

You're right, Flatline, I did not read a several hundred page book I don't have for an answer to a simple question.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.
Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.
FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
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Post by Koumei »

I still want to know about the "Koumei provides the art on page 8" bit.
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Post by Longes »

Koumei wrote:I still want to know about the "Koumei provides the art on page 8" bit.
I don't know what he's talking about, because my book doesn't have any art on page 8. Here's art from pages 7 and 11
Image
Image
Last edited by Longes on Mon Sep 08, 2014 9:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Lago PARANOIA »

What other games aside from Werewolf, Exalted, and Changeling do you get a huge mechanical penalty for not being sufficiently creepy at the table?
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In short, your entire post is dismissive of not merely my intelligence, but my agency. And I don't mean agency as a player within one of your games, I mean my agency as a person. You do not want me to be informed when I make the fundamental decisions of deciding whether to join your game or buying your rules system.
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Post by Mistborn »

Lago PARANOIA wrote:What other games aside from Werewolf, Exalted, and Changeling do you get a huge mechanical penalty for not being sufficiently creepy at the table?
Just off the top of my head AW has sex moves and you know that any sex in AW is going to end with you rolling a 5 and realizing your partner is a bear. Is that sufficiently creepy?
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