5e - under or overpowered shit

[Ghremdal]

You can do some shenanigans with planar binding as well, thought that requires two casters. But if you have them, you basically have infinite elementals bound to you for a infinite amount of time.

Esplain?


(side note: I remember in basic and 1e running around with a cadre of fighting dogs or mercenaries. Since there's nothing for a PC to use gold for, I might just insitute a gold cost for Animate Dead and encourage the melee types to hire mercs and rogues.)

You need 2 casters. One needs to know conjure elementals, and the other needs to know magic circle and planar binding.

Caster A casts conjure elementals. Caster B casts magic circle right before caster A is finished. Once caster A is finished casting he immediately breaks concentration. Now the elemental is loose for the next hour.

Caster B immediately casts planar binding. The magic circle will hold through most of the casting, leaving the elemental 1 round to do anything. After that it gets bound to caster B for weeks, months or years. No concentration or anything.

[nockermensch]

As Dean noted, Contagion. No save at the moment you cast this non-concentration spell and you can pick from a variety of debilitating effects to fuck with the targeted creature. To escape a disease the target must pass three Con saving throws which means at very least three rounds while you're pilling abuse on it.

The best disease choice is Slimy Doom, that stuns the target for one round if it takes any damage (no save, fuck you). Another good pick is Flesh Rot, that inflicts vulnerability to all damage. In 5e, this means doubling all damage.

See the ancient red dragon or the Tarrasque? Unless they get "immune to diseases" from a source we didn't see yet, a fight againt them consists on a cleric or druid casting Contagion (Slimy Doom) on it and then the party wailing on it unopposed for at least three rounds. Stunned means that attacks against the creature have advantage and that it automatically fails reflex or strength saving throws. After three rounds, if the monster isn't dead yet, cast Contagion again, rinse, repeat.

EDIT: Contagion still requires a Spell Melee Attack to land. This means you need to touch the creature and I don't see rules about how landing "touch attacks" is easier on 5e. It seems you always need to hit the creature's full AC. So good luck pilling bonuses and advantage on that.

[Ghremdal]

You can multiclass to a sorceror for 2 levels to use metamagic to give it 30' range. Your to hit is your proficiency + casting stat, so its pretty maxed. Some kind of advantage is not hard to get.

[Deathfork]

EDIT: Contagion still requires a Spell Melee Attack to land. This means you need to touch the creature and I don't see rules about how landing "touch attacks" is easier on 5e. It seems you always need to hit the creature's full AC. So good luck pilling bonuses and advantage on that.

You get proficiency + spell casting stat to attack, so it will be exactly the same as anyone else's attack vs AC. Getting advantage is pretty easy. Faerie fire, prone, surprise, GM blowjob, whatever.

[Ghremdal]

Inspiration.

Anyway, some of the MM got released. Among the broken things is the Pixie, CR 1/4 with several spells (1/day) confusion and polymorph are the notable ones.

Summon Woodland creatures as a lvl 4 spell summons 8 Pixies. As a level 6 it summons 16 of them. 1 hour duration, concentration.

[Deathfork]

Bringing back dumpster diving in monster manuals for PC abilities is something so mindbogglingly stupid it defies understanding. It's something I was happy to see die in change from 3rd to 4th.

[Insomniac]

So, looking over the races that I think will get played a lot, we all know how good the Dwarves are, but from my Player's Handbook...

Half Elves look pretty damn good!

Charisma 2, Any 2 Other Abilities By 1
Darkvision
Advantage on saving throws against Charm (Basically +4 against charms)
Immunity to Magic-Based Sleep
2 Skills of your choice

In comparison, Humans are +1 to 2 attributes of choice, a feat and a skill. It seems like a no-brainer to always be a Half-Elf instead of a Human.
There aren't any feats that stack up to +2 Charisma, Skill Training, Charm Advantage, Sleep Immunity and Darkvision

Compared to some other offerings, that is pretty burly! It might just be the absolute best stats to play a Bard, Sorcerer or Warlock.

By the same token, any sort of race that gets +2 to a relevant stat seems to be the go to race. Gnomes have gone from corner case to possibly the very best Wizards, for instance. And compared to where they were in 3.5, Half-Orcs went from you'd have to be a nut to use them as anything but a Barbarian or Fighter to a compelling choice for anybody who wants that +2 Strength and +1 Constitution with a bunch of other goodies and no downsides. They'd be great Thug Rogues, for instance.

[Lago PARANOIA]

There aren't any feats right now, but assuming 5E D&D doesn't tank within the next six months they're almost assuredly going to be publishing a feat sooner or later that's worth the attribute fuckery.

This is how we got dwarves being king of the fighters for a good long while in 4E D&D despite not having a primary stat bonus to said class.

[Emerald]

There aren't any feats that stack up to +2 Charisma, Skill Training, Charm Advantage, Sleep Immunity and Darkvision

Really? I'd say at least Alert (+5 initiative, immune to surprise, hidden attackers don't gain advantage against you), Inspiring Leader (give the whole party level+Cha temp HP with no time limit after every rest), and Sentinel (creatures hit by your AoOs have speed 0 for a turn, adjacent creatures can't avoid AoOs with Disengage, and you can take an attack as a reaction against an adjacent creature who attacks someone else) are probably worth it for classes without Cha as a primary stat.

[Dogbert]

A necromancer can do it faster (and with stronger skeletons), but ultimately its 4 skeletons per lvl 3 slot, or 4+(x-3)*2 per spell slot, where x>=3. Undead thralls doesn't let you control more then other casters.

Make them zombies, remember zombies have a 50% of staying at 1HP whenever they'd get a killing blow.

[Deathfork]

Half-Orcs went from you'd have to be a nut to use them as anything but a Barbarian or Fighter to a compelling choice for anybody who wants that +2 Strength and +1 Constitution with a bunch of other goodies and no downsides. They'd be great Thug Rogues, for instance.

I suppose if a Strength based Rogue offered offered any benefits, maybe. The only thing Half Orc does right now that's worth a shit is make the expanded crit range of Champion Fighter not a terrible ability. It's still not worth being a Champion Fighter, but at least the crit range will actually be a benefit and not a total pile of shit.

[Deathfork]

A necromancer can do it faster (and with stronger skeletons), but ultimately its 4 skeletons per lvl 3 slot, or 4+(x-3)*2 per spell slot, where x>=3. Undead thralls doesn't let you control more then other casters.

Make them zombies, remember zombies have a 50% of staying at 1HP whenever they'd get a killing blow.

Yeah, but their damage output sucks since it doesn't look like they have proficiency with any weapons. Skeletons seem to have martial proficiency(unless there's some bullshit in the MM about how monster are only proficient with weapons in their entry). Better to go around Finger of Deathing commoners to get zombies you don't have to waste a spell on.

[Dean]

Variant Human or Mountain Dwarf are still the king races. +2's to stats don't really matter because in both point buy and array you're only allowed to bring stats to 15, so a +1 is basically identical to a +2. Sure in stat rolling it's different but since everyone lies when stat rolling it's a non-ability there too. Mountain Dwarf and alternate human both give you abilities and that's what will let you win the game. Sentinel, War Caster and Scroll Scribe are all good feat choices and worth more to me than +1 to an ability score.

I only have the Alpha Draft, does Animate Dead let you make zombies? Mine doesn't even offer the option. Zombies and Skellies each have their strengths although contrary to what Deathfork seems to think one strength of Skeletons is definitely NOT that they have martial weapon proficiency letting you arm your whole group with whatever you want. Seriously dude what fucking edition do you think this is? You think this is 3.E where there have rules for what monsters are proficient in and how they worked? Dream on buddy. If you wanna know if your Skeletons can use Greatswords you'll have to ask loud enough for your DM to hear you over the sound of you blowing him. We're back to the bad old days, get used to it.

[Ferret]

Animate Dead
3rd-levelnecromancy
Casting Time: 1 minute
Range: 10 feet
Components: V, S, M (a drop of blood, a piece of flesh,
and a pinch of bone dust)
Duration: Instantaneous

This spell creates an undead servant. Choose a pile of bones or a corpse of a Medium or Small humanoid within range. Your spell imbues the target with a foul mimicry of life, raising it as an undead creature. The target becomes a skeleton if you chose bones or a zombie if you chose a corpse (the DM has the creature’s game statistics).

On each of your turns, you can use a bonus action to mentally command any creature you made with this spell if the creature is within 60 feet of you (if you control multiple creatures, you can command any or all of them at the same time, issuing the same command to each one). You decide what action the creature will take and where it will move during its next turn, or you can issue a general command, such as to guard a particular chamber or corridor. If you issue no commands, the creature only defends itself against hostile creatures. Once given an order, the creature continues to follow it until its task is complete.

The creature is under your control for 24 hours, after which it stops obeying any command you’ve given it. To maintain control of the creature for another 24 hours, you must cast this spell on the creature again before the current 24-hour period ends. This use of the spell reasserts your control over up to four creatures you have animated with this spell, rather than animating a new one.

At Higher Levels:

When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 4th level or higher, you animate or reassert control over two additional undead creatures for each slot level above 3rd. Each of the creatures must come from a different corpse or pile of bones.

[nockermensch]

Half-Orcs went from you'd have to be a nut to use them as anything but a Barbarian or Fighter to a compelling choice for anybody who wants that +2 Strength and +1 Constitution with a bunch of other goodies and no downsides. They'd be great Thug Rogues, for instance.

I suppose if a Strength based Rogue offered offered any benefits, maybe. The only thing Half Orc does right now that's worth a shit is make the expanded crit range of Champion Fighter not a terrible ability. It's still not worth being a Champion Fighter, but at least the crit range will actually be a benefit and not a total pile of shit.

Sneak attacks require that you hit with a ranged or finesse weapon, so it's kind of useless to be a strength rogue right now.

[Insomniac]

Oh right. Whoops. So they suck as Rogues then.

Alternate Humans and Mountain Dwarf are the strongest mechanically now I think.

[Deathfork]

Half-Orcs went from you'd have to be a nut to use them as anything but a Barbarian or Fighter to a compelling choice for anybody who wants that +2 Strength and +1 Constitution with a bunch of other goodies and no downsides. They'd be great Thug Rogues, for instance.

I suppose if a Strength based Rogue offered offered any benefits, maybe. The only thing Half Orc does right now that's worth a shit is make the expanded crit range of Champion Fighter not a terrible ability. It's still not worth being a Champion Fighter, but at least the crit range will actually be a benefit and not a total pile of shit.

Sneak attacks require that you hit with a ranged or finesse weapon, so it's kind of useless to be a strength rogue right now.

Was that not clear? I doubled a word there, but I said IF a strength Rogue offered any benefits.

[Deathfork]

Zombies and Skellies each have their strengths although contrary to what Deathfork seems to think one strength of Skeletons is definitely NOT that they have martial weapon proficiency letting you arm your whole group with whatever you want. Seriously dude what fucking edition do you think this is? You think this is 3.E where there have rules for what monsters are proficient in and how they worked? Dream on buddy. If you wanna know if your Skeletons can use Greatswords you'll have to ask loud enough for your DM to hear you over the sound of you blowing him. We're back to the bad old days, get used to it.

Pray tell then, what is the strength of the Skeleton?

[8d8]

Pray tell then, what is the strength of the Skeleton?

Less miasma.

[Dean]

A ranged attack option. Although that may be my own 3.E thinking coming into the mix, me making the assumption that there will be flying monsters who use flight tactically instead of wandering into melee for no reason.

[Lago PARANOIA]

If you wanna know if your Skeletons can use Greatswords you'll have to ask loud enough for your DM to hear you over the sound of you blowing him. We're back to the bad old days, get used to it.

I'd like take this moment to remind people that you have to blow the DM just to have the option of using a feat.

[Deathfork]

I'd like take this moment to remind people that you have to blow the DM just to have the option of using a feat.

So noted.
I'd also like to remind people that any DM that prevents you from taking feats is a [EDITED].

Edit: Wow, I can say fuck but not [EDITED]?

[Deathfork]

A ranged attack option. Although that may be my own 3.E thinking coming into the mix, me making the assumption that there will be flying monsters who use flight tactically instead of wandering into melee for no reason.

So simple weapon proficiency? That was my point after all.
Their (zombies) damage output sucks because they have no proficiency. If the strength of the skeleton is a weapon proficiency, and hence the capability to make a ranged attack, you're making my point for me.
So, ok, it's not martial, but I only extrapolated that from short sword. You can still upgrade a skeleton to a d8 ranged attack with a light crossbow.
(Unless you're suggesting that this is 4e all over again and the bow is an inherent piece of the skeleton that is irreplaceable.)

Or you could have been making a sarcastic comment that went totally over my head. Derp.

[Insomniac]

If you wanna know if your Skeletons can use Greatswords you'll have to ask loud enough for your DM to hear you over the sound of you blowing him. We're back to the bad old days, get used to it.

I'd like take this moment to remind people that you have to blow the DM just to have the option of using a feat.

Not only that, but if take a feat it costs you 2 ability points. So you gotta blow, swallow the load and say it was like chutney.

[Dean]

(Unless you're suggesting that this is 4e all over again and the bow is an inherent piece of the skeleton that is irreplaceable.)

That is exactly what I am suggesting. It's exactly 4E all over again. You target a pile of bones and then it tells the DM to use the Skeleton's monster entry. The pile of bones magically generates a longsword and bow out of thin air which you can use but cannot sell because monster weapons have been made automagically impossible for people to give you any money for. It's exactly like 4E, just more circuitous. The Skeleton doesn't use a shortbow for because it is proficient in simple weapons, it doesn't use a shortbow because your pile of bones even had a shortbow in it. A Skeleton uses a shortbow because the Skeleton statblock has a "Shortbow" attack. Trying to give it anything else puts you immediately into MTP territory where there are no rules whatsoever to govern what you are trying to do.

I'm telling you that your instincts for decent design are creating, whole cloth, rules that don't exist in the game. They should exist but they don't. This isn't 3E, this isn't even 4E which at least had the balls to tell you it's rules even though the rules were bullshit. This is 5E and it won't even look you in the eye and tell you how it works. Mike Mearls is a coward, everything he has ever done is a demonstration of that and his cowardice has seeped into every aspect of these rules. 5E has the same goals as 4E, that is to strip away character empowerment and their ability to interact with the world in any way that isn't grinding mobs for XP, but unlike 4E it isn't even willing to write clear rules to that matter. The game wants to give you nothing whenever possible but it is too cowardly to even stand by that post. It wants to give you no abilities but that would cause backlash so it gives you hundreds of overlapping mutually exclusive abilities. It wants to give you no loot but that has caused backlash so it writes rules in three separate parts of the book that altogether tell you that monsters actually don't drop anything except what your DM decides. It wants you to play at 3rd level forever but that has caused backlash so it simply gives abilities with no respect to level so that your 17th level power and your 4th level power may be identical (as the bard can attest).