[Ars Magica 5] OOC: It's PeIm for darkness, not PeCo

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Prak
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Post by Prak »

Korgan0 wrote:Vim, as in the form, or vis, as in the magical shit?

[[OOC note: I think JeanPant's character is trying to pull a fast one on us.]]
Vis, sorry. Again, I'm fucking reminded of resonance and quintessence in Mage.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.
Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.
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You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
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Post by Laertes »

Conjuring the Mystic Tower will create a tower that is platonically perfect, as Jeanpat notes. It's equivalent to rolling an infinity on your Finesse roll using The Changeable Tower. It's much better and more stable and stronger and stuff; the question is whether you feel that that's worth paying 7 Terram vis (which is, remember, enough to study from for a few seasons.)

The Changeable Tower will also leave you with catacombs beneath you, from which the stone came. You may see this as a bad thing or as an awesome thing.

Vim is a Form, it targets magic. Vis is, as Korgan0 notes, magical shit. The two words are similar because both basically mean "magic."

Ranting about Mage:
Resonance in Mage was one of its more story-game elements where Phil Brucato couldn't decide what it was that he wanted the stat to do, so they wrote a jumble of half-formed stuff and called it a day. In a way that's typical of the thoughtline of Mage. I loved Mage when I was young, I really did, but the rules were terrible... and what they did to Ars Magica in order to try to get it to line up with Mage was inexcusable.

Ask any Ars Magica veteran about "Reason." Go on. I'll watch the fireworks from here.
Last edited by Laertes on Wed Aug 20, 2014 3:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Laertes »

Oh yeah, and the tower conjured by Conjuring the Mystic Tower is enormous. Even with thick walls, each floor is large enough for a Hermetic lab and some living space. You could fit all six wizards into it with enough space left over for a library and common room, and then two floors underground for storage or low-ceilinged underground lab space. More than one small covenant has fit itself into a single one of those towers and called it a day.

Having a personal one would be a statement of wealth and power. That's not to say that wizards wouldn't do such things, because they totally would.
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Post by JeanPat »

Here is what I will do this season :
I will use the spell Gift of Flight on me and one of my grog, disguised by the spell Under the Guise of the crow to look like crows (or any other local bird).
I will then use the spells Searching for the places of power/dream to spot magical/faerie auras, and investiguate those place in more detail (flying and on foot), as they are likely to contain vis source. I will aslo use the spell Searching for the shard of magic to spot vis on sight (it will glow).

I will also spontaneously cast spells to detect vis by hearing it (self, conc, hearing lvl 5 when I am in a magical or faerie aura.
Last edited by JeanPat on Fri Aug 29, 2014 12:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Korgan0 »

I thought InVi spells detected at the range of the spell, so that spell would only tell you if you yourself were vis. I can spontaneously cast InVi spells at sight range anyways so I haven't looked deeply into it, but that's my understanding, and I can't look at my books to double-check, as I'm at work.
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Post by momothefiddler »

P114: "The range of the spell is the range to the recipient" of the augmented sense. The extra magnitudes in target (3, for hearing) are the corresponding equivalent.
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Post by Laertes »

There's two ways to do an Intellego spell: you can create an magical sense, or you can directly gain information. If it helps, think of it as the second option being just like a normal hermetic spell, and the first option being a successful attempt to graft an originally non-Hermetic magical concept into Hermetic magic, which is why it works a little differently. (Doubtless the research project of some vanished Bonisagus.)

- A magical sense (for example Hunter's Sense p118) is Personal range but needs its target to be set to the sense you're using for this information. Their big advantage is that once cast, they work passively just like any other sense does, and so work well with longer durations. Their big disadvantage is that they don't allow you to gain information beyond the range or capability of your senses. This uses the system on p114 that momothefiddler referenced.

- A direct information gain spell (for example Image of the Beast p117) is set to whatever range and target you need to affect the particular target you're going for. Their big advantage is that they allow you to gain information from outside of the thresholds of your natural senses. Their big disadvantage is that they require you to know what you're looking for and where to look for it. This uses the standard spell design system.

Since JeanPat wants to fly over a large area and look for vis without specifically knowing what he's searching for or where he'll find it, using sensory magic is the right option. If he had an arcane connection to either the place or the specific vis he was searching for, then he could just sit at home eating cheese, drinking cider and safely casting via arcane connection like a pimp. As it stands, he's going for an adventure.

Edit: Korgan0, the Ars Magica term for "I'm at work so can't look at my books, therefore if I am wrong please forgive me" is "serf's parma." I don't know where it comes from but it's a useful term.
Last edited by Laertes on Fri Aug 29, 2014 12:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by Laertes »

Spring 1220:
Mathei: Adventuring to map out the auras and vis sources in the region. (XP TBD)
Petrus: Setting up a lab. (2xp in MT)
Vergil:
Camille: Setting up a lab. (2xp in MT)
Orsen:
Nidratr:

JeanPat, since that adventure is basically a one-player thing and this board doesn't like us opening up additional threads to handle these things, shall we handle it in PM? I don't want to flood the IC thread with it unless other players have a way of being involved.
Last edited by Laertes on Sat Aug 30, 2014 12:02 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by momothefiddler »

Laertes wrote:Oh yeah, and the tower conjured by Conjuring the Mystic Tower is enormous. Even with thick walls, each floor is large enough for a Hermetic lab and some living space. You could fit all six wizards into it with enough space left over for a library and common room, and then two floors underground for storage or low-ceilinged underground lab space. More than one small covenant has fit itself into a single one of those towers and called it a day.

Having a personal one would be a statement of wealth and power. That's not to say that wizards wouldn't do such things, because they totally would.
I don't want to be all whiny, but I've put a lot of character resources into being able to do this sort of thing, and my spell's size modifier is also +4. I get that spending magical putty will get a mage a tower that's "better" in various abstract ways, allowing them to be an elitist prick about it (as befits a mage), but if I roll well enough on Finesse to make the thing (and however much more I need to count for "going to have to roll a little better on the Finesse before it counts as Superior Construction"), what other mechanical things am I missing? And given "It's equivalent to rolling an infinity on your Finesse roll using The Changeable Tower", what increases in Finesse correspond to each of those changes?

Also, I'm sorry for my absence; work's been a mess. I'm hoping to be able to continue, but if you need to move on from a scene without me, go ahead.

Spring 1220: 10 days (probably spread out; not all at the beginning of the season) throwing up buildings for everyone and adjusting them as desired, including for the nearby townsfolk if there's time and that doesn't count as ~interfering~, with the rest of the season spent setting up my lab.
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Post by Laertes »

I'm not saying that the towers Camille can build aren't enormous. Quite the opposite: I'm trying to make the party aware that having one of those per magus might be colossal overkill where size is concerned, so that you don't end up wasting resources.

I'm sorry if this came off as "CrTe is just better than ReTe", that wasn't intended. Rego is harder, but since it doesn't cost vis then when you're good enough to do it then you're good enough to do it all day long, making all the towers, for no cost. That's a different sort of power.

A Finesse roll to build an equivalent tower using Rego Terram would work off the base crafting TN of 15 for an excellent item, increased as usual for size and crafting speed. Once you're this good then what you're making is more or less a platonically perfect tower, which means that Creo can't improve on it.

This also gives you catacombs, which you may care about or not. Personally I think they're cool.
Spring 1220: 10 days (probably spread out; not all at the beginning of the season) throwing up buildings for everyone and adjusting them as desired, including for the nearby townsfolk if there's time and that doesn't count as ~interfering~, with the rest of the season spent setting up my lab.
The line on interfering would be in giving them fortifications, since that would tip the local balance of power by making them unassailable and therefore able to raid their enemies freely. As long as it's just nice warm houses, you're not going to get prosecuted.

The village does have a Dominion aura; are you capable of casting in that?
Last edited by Laertes on Fri Aug 29, 2014 7:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by momothefiddler »

Alright, that works for me (and thanks for the concrete TN - I like having something to shoot for).

And catacombs are fantastic.
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Post by JeanPat »

Hi momothefiddler, if I can add something to what Laertes just said. Rego Craft magic is awesome, but really hard at the same time for some things (like buildings). In fact I once played a character very similar to yours and it was really fun.

There are more rules for rego craft in House of Hermes : Societas p. 62, especially for the equivalent work time of a craftman that add to the roll difficulty.

Don't despair, it is still possible to raise the finesse total with a spell mastery.

I think the biggest advantage of rego craft, is that you can do almost anything. Your main focus is buildings right now, but you could as easily produce furniture, clothes, lab equipement, weapons and even works of art ! The smaller the item gets, the higher quality you will get at lower roll difficulties.
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Post by JeanPat »

Laertes : We can do it via MP. Maybe another played can play the grog if they want to?
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Post by Laertes »

For speed, let's do it via PM and then publish it when we're done. Everyone seems to have a lot of work stress right now so a one-on-one might be the fastest method.
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Post by Korgan0 »

We finally managed to find a replacement manager, so shit is no longer totally fucked. Phone salesperson's Parma will no longer be as big a deal, and when I get a chance I'll refigure what kinds of InVi spells I can cast at a fifth of my total, which was 5, iirc. Again, salesperson's Parma. Petrus will set up his lab the first season (my desired lab traits are in the covenant spreadsheet, and should be acheivable with Camille's aid; send me a message on Skype or pm with questions) and spend spare time scouting for vis and organizing the library.
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Post by JeanPat »

Can we have the important links for the in the first post of the thread ? Like the covenant sheet, character sheets, etc. ?
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Post by Laertes »

monothefiddler: the first post is yours. Could you make the edits or would you like me to put it in one of mine?
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Post by Prak »

I think I'm going to (continue to) be on the quiet side for a while. My job is keeping me fairly busy, and I'm somewhat lost in both tone and mechanics. At a guess, the best thing for Nidr to do for the season is work on that Infinity-style gauntlet for getting the most of the Table of Bonuses, but I'm not entirely sure what that entails.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.
Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.
FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
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Post by Laertes »

I think we're all pretty swamped due to work. I certainly am. I've got one project winding down, another one in extremely high gear and then next week I need to cover for a colleague.

Prak, what's the Infinity-style gauntlet? Did I miss a reference?

Let me walk you through enchanting an item.

There are two types of enchanted items you can make: one which has a single magic effect it can do, and one which is more expensive to make but which you can put more than one effect in. That second type can later be upgraded into a Talisman, which gives you sick awesome bonuses for casting spells. ("Later" can mean "as soon as you've finished making it"; you don't need to level up.)

So step one consists of deciding whether you're building a single-spell item (a wand, basically) or something more badass. I would recommend that if you feel you have the MT for it, designing a Talisman this early isn't actually a bad step and will give you lots of extra punch. Don't feel you're limiting yourself by doing it too early: you can always build a more powerful one when you've outgrown it.

No matter which way you go, the first step consists of cherry-picking stuff from the Big Table of Bonuses to enhance the magics you want to put in. Your total bonus to any one spell is capped at your MT, so for a single-effect lesser enchantment you can generally just pick one or two and call it a day. For something to give you multiple bonuses (especially if you want to make it a Talisman later) you can have a number of different elements up to your MT. This is better suited to a multiple-spell enchanted item.

So step two consists of going bonus shopping on p110.

Step three consists of working out the vis cost and the maximum spell levels, which involves the table on p97. I suggest we leave this until we know what we're building and what we want it to do.
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Prak
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Post by Prak »

The Infinity Gauntlet from Marvel:
Image

because what I want to make is a gauntlet studded with the various materials that up my most used techniques. I'll have to figure out which when I get home and have my pdfs in front of me, but that's the reference I was making.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.
Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.
FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
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Post by Mask_De_H »

I don't actually know what Vergil can do to help with setting up the covenant at this point.
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K wrote:That being said, the usefulness of airships for society is still transporting cargo because it's an option that doesn't require a powerful wizard to show up for work on time instead of blowing the day in his harem of extraplanar sex demons/angels.
Chamomile wrote: See, it's because K's belief in leaving generation of individual monsters to GMs makes him Chaotic, whereas Frank's belief in the easier usability of monsters pre-generated by game designers makes him Lawful, and clearly these philosophies are so irreconcilable as to be best represented as fundamentally opposed metaphysical forces.
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Post by JeanPat »

Hi mask_de_H.

You can set up your lab, which is always useful if you want to invent spell, enchant magic items, bind a familiar, etc.

The thing with ars magica, you get to set your own goals for your magus/covenant. What do you think your magus would want to do ?

One thing we need to do is get a source of income, which will probably lead to storie.
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