[Ars Magica 5] OOC: It's PeIm for darkness, not PeCo

Stories about games that you run and/or have played in.

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Laertes
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Post by Laertes »

Korgan0 wrote:petrus will bring his frogs
Did I miss something?
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momothefiddler
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Post by momothefiddler »

Autocorrect from "grogs", I assume, but I'm now imagining the two to be the same.
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Post by Laertes »

Would people find it useful for me to post the starts for the next few scenes, or do you want to initiate them yourselves?
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Post by Korgan0 »

I think it would be best for you to officiate abrupt changes in scenes (you all go to bed, wake up, xyz happens), but I think we can manage the start of the meetings and excursions ourselves.
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Post by Laertes »

Splendid. In that case, would someone please post a scene opening for the trip to town?

Also, Leetkeis: What are you doing about the bear?
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Post by momothefiddler »

I've set up a minecraft server for covenant layout and stuff. If all of you interested in messing around with it would please PM me your usernames, I'd like to set up a whitelist.
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Post by Korgan0 »

I imagined us having the meeting before the excursion, to set up policies regarding attitudes towards local hedge mages, how obvious to make any magical aid we can offer the villagers, how parsimonious we want to be with our silver, and how to manage vis.
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Post by Mask_De_H »

Refresh me on the hooks and boons again?
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Post by momothefiddler »

The available Hooks and Boons:
So here are my thoughts on Hooks and Boons. This is an early draft, so please feel free to suggest different ones if you'd like.

Boons
Not everything that your covenant has counts as a boon. For example, if your characters build a massive building then you don't just gain the Edifice boon; if your income increases then you won't gain the Wealth boon. However, buying something as a Boon gives it a certain amount of "accident immunity": If you have a high income then it can drop just as easily, but if you have the Wealth boon then your covenant is thematically wealthy and that won't go away without major plot.
Aura. Due to the high background level of magic in the wild lands of Ruthenia, it's easier to find strong auras. Therefore you start in a +4 Magical Aura rather than a +3. This makes laboratory work and spellcasting within the covenant more powerful.
Ungoverned. Due to the slow decline of Kievan authority, the rivalry between regional princes, and the presence of Cuman tribes nearby, there is little central authority in the region. Even if that were not the case, however, the Ruthenians are a free folk and fiercely resent others imposing authority upon them, and this mindset carries over into the general politics of the region. The covenant has a freer hand with its affairs and can deal with nobles, tribal leaders and religious authorities on a more equal footing.
Writ of Crenellation. The covenant has been invited in by the Prince of Pereslavl, and given permission to construct a fortress. This is a closely-guarded right: denying the construction of fortifications is one of the main ways that the princes ensure the subjugation of their lessers. This may bring closer scrutiny from Quaesitors who are careful to ensure that you're not entering into feudal obligations.
Right. The covenant has been given the right to hold a market. Due to the size and openness of Ruthenia and the mobility of their population, the sort of serfdom which characterises western Europe simply does not exist here. Chaining the free Ruthenian folk to the soil in the style of France or Poland would be an exercise in futility. Instead, the princes exercise control through market fees, control of law courts and annual tributes on a village, town or tribal level. By giving you the right to hold a market, you are being given a certain degree of independence from economic dependence on the local towns.

Possible alternates in case you don't like those:
Cavalry. On the steppes, everyone is a horseman, because the alternative is not ever travelling. As the covenant adjusts to this and its own guards become horse-mobile, they will find themselves in possession of a powerful mobile striking or raiding force.
Local Ally: Faerie Queen. The court of the local fae is strong, and they travel widely through the area. Villagers feed them with milk and bread in exchange for farm labour. Many isolated farmsteads have hearth faeries which provide minor blessings and minor mischiefs, and are careful not to upset them. The covenant, however, is in a position to deal directly with their Queen. Each can help the other, and grow powerful as a result.

Hooks
Not every disadvantage a covenant has is a Hook. For example, if the covenant has a combination of covenfolk from different places, then that isn't a Divided Covenant: it's just a heterogenous population. A Hook is an invitation from the players to the GM to make story happen as a result of these factors. Therefore, pick the Hooks that you are interested in having stories result from. For example, if you pick Poverty then you're signalling to the GM that you want to play through stories about wizards doing things to make you mundanely wealthy. If you want it to happen offstage and not be a big deal, then don't take the Hook.
Hooks can change and can be exchanged for one another. For example, covenfolk dissatisfied due to a Divided Covenant can be brought together by giving them shared festivals, rights and duties. This results in you exchanging Divided Covenant for Rights and Customs, which provides stories of its own but of a different type.

Hedge Tradition. (Downgraded from Major to Minor for the purposes of starting play.) There is a significant population of local hedge magicians. Most are shapeshifters, folk witches and faerie doctors - self-taught riff-raff of no account or particular power. However, there is a tradition of nightwalkers, who use magic to communicate and train one another and therefore avoid the social penalty of The Gift. They are strongly ingrained into the Ruthenian population and have many mundane allies, and control significant supplies of vis and magical creatures. The covenant's relationship with them will be a significant factor in its future.
Monster. Winter on the steppe is harsh, and when the snow covers the black earth many will freeze, starve or go mad. During these times the White King is said to walk, a powerful death spirit who feeds off the desperation, loneliness and darkness of the winter. While he is not directly a threat to the covenant, they must tiptoe carefully around him - and should they seek to halt his depredations, he may become a direct threat.
Indigenes. A small core of servants, soldiers, craftsmen and carters have come with the magi. However, the majority of the people within the region will are Ruthenian, and the social difference between the new arrivals and the existing population may cause friction and resentment. Ruthenians are free folk and do not tolerate serfdom, while the covenfolk expect to occupy a privileged place and may behave as though they are conquerors.
Itinerants. The steppe is an open place, and a man who owns a horse can go where he pleases. Many tribes follow an annual circuit, driving their herds north in spring and south in autumn, trading and bartering as they go. When they encounter villages they may engage in commerce or they may raid them for cattle and slaves. Whenever the tribes pass through the covenant, stories result.

Possible alternates in case you don't like those:
Poverty. The covenant has no peasants and no manpower to spare to plow fields. Out here on the plains, trade is difficult and winter is unforgiving. Merely to earn enough to live in the manner befitting Hermetic magicians will require ingenuity and hard work.
Contested Resources. One of the covenant's vis sources is contested by a group of hedge necromancers. Fighting over it may weaken both groups and make them vulnerable to others, but it's a prize too precious to simply ignore.
The current votes:
momothefiddler wrote: Suggested Boons: Ungoverned, Writ of Crenellation, Right, Cavalry, Local Ally: Faerie Queen
Balanced By: Hedge Tradition, Monster, Itinerants, Poverty, Contested Resources
Leetkeis wrote: Suggested Boons: Ungoverned, Right, Local Ally: Faerie Queen
Hooks: Hedge Tradition, Itinerants, Poverty
Korgan0 wrote: Suggested Boons: Right, Ungoverned, Local Ally (Faerie Queen), Writ of Crenellation
Hooks: Hedge Tradition, Itinerants, Contested Resources, Monster
Those are the views we've had thus far on the Boons and Hooks. Since the covenant site itself hasn't come up yet, it's still under discussion.

momothefiddler is the only one who wants Cavalry; the others seem relatively uncontroversial. As for Hooks, there seems to be some disagreement over Poverty.

Prak_Anima, Mask_de_H, yours are the deciding votes.
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Post by Prak »

I kind of like the idea of Powerful Ally: Faerie Queen, and a Major Faerie Regio. Maybe a Monster, too. Maybe Aura with the point(s) from Monster.
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You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
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Post by Korgan0 »

Do you mean a Fae region or aura? Either way, it would interfere with spellcasting rather significantly.
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Post by momothefiddler »

I feel like we should write up the full text of the actual covenant, but I'm not actually sure if that's good/necessary. Does anyone care?
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Post by Laertes »

It might be a fun prop. Why not write it yourself and other people can critique it and request bits be added and removed?
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Post by Prak »

Korgan0 wrote:Do you mean a Fae region or aura? Either way, it would interfere with spellcasting rather significantly.
Regio is a hook, at Major, it means there are people that come around and start stories. If it's not magical (ie, is faerie, infernal or divine, iirc) that's an extra minor.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.
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FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
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Post by Laertes »

We're probably working to a budget of about five minors at the most, so a single Major will require us to drop all but two others. This isn't a bad thing, but it does shape the game in a very big way - about 60% of what you're doing will be responding to the faerie stuff.

Edit: What we could do is just downgrade those to Minors under the tacit agreement that they won't create as much story as they would otherwise. As such, what I'm hearing is:

Prak_Anima:
Boons: Ally: Faerie Queen, Aura
Hooks: Monster, Regio

I don't mind including a Regio or a higher Aura, I think we can put those on in addition to our current set. If we squeeze up to six minors, we could do the following which seems to satisfy everyone:

Boons: Local Ally: Faerie Queen, Right, Writ of Crenellation, Ungoverned, Aura
Hooks: Monster, Regio, Poverty, Itinerants, Contested Resources, Hedge Tradition

This leaves us with either one more Boon or dropping one Hook. Does anyone have any views on this? Are there any Boons or Hooks on the list that anyone wants us *not* to take?
Last edited by Laertes on Sat Jul 19, 2014 10:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by momothefiddler »

Laertes wrote:It might be a fun prop. Why not write it yourself and other people can critique it and request bits be added and removed?
Barring any player errors, here's basically what Camille's gonna try for.
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Post by Laertes »

That looks good. A few sections you might need to explicitly rule on because they end up being important:

Sancta
- How many is each magus allowed?
- How large can a sanctum be?
- How often can you move your sanctum?
(There are cases of people declaring every room they're in to be their sanctum while they're in it, or declaring the entire covenant to be their sanctum, so it's worth making these rules. Many lab rat characters may wish to have multiple specialised labs within their sanctum, more social magi often include guest chambers and suchlike within it, and magi who go in for big weird projects may want the infrastructure for those within their sanctum. Can Orsen, for example, claim a patch of forest as his sanctum?)

Mundane Money
- Is the Bursar allowed to limit people's lab expenditures?
- Are magi given their own separate pocket money from communal stocks? Magi that travel a lot would need it, while lab rats probably wouldn't. Many magi find the idea of going cap in hand before the council to ask for silver to be degrading.
- Are magi permitted to maintain their own private moneymaking schemes?

Vis
- Is there a regular vis salary paid from the communal stocks? If so, how much and how often?
- What is the procedure for deciding who gets the most sought-after types of vis?
- Are magi permitted to maintain their own private vis sources?
- Is there a restriction placed on the hunting of supernatural creatures for vis? For example, are you allowed to hunt angels for Divine vis?

Non-Hermetic Magi
- Is "Join or Die" going to be enforced?
- Is trading with them regulated through a covenant officer?
- Are individual magi allowed to trade with or make war on them without the covenant's approval?
- Does the covenant recognise the right of non-Hermetic groups to own vis sources?

Dispute Resolution
- Is there a mechanism for resolving disputes between two magi?
- What if neither magus wants the rest of the covenant to butt their nose into their dispute?
- What if it's a dispute between a magus and a grog?
- What if it's a dispute between a local magus and a visitor?
- How will the covenant agreement be modified?

Hospitality
- Is the covenant permitted to refuse hospitality to individual magi?
- Are covenant magi permitted to invite anyone they please without asking the rest of the covenant?
- Does the covenant maintain a "whitelist" or "blacklist" for visitors?
- Are visitors permitted to cast spells?
- Are visitors allowed to hunt for vis in the covenant hinterland? If they do, to whom does this vis belong?
- Are visitors allowed to copy books? If they do, to whom do these copies belong?

Covenfolk
- Which offices does the covenant recognise?
- What method exists for the covenfolk to petition the council for redress?
- Are there any basic rights or protections that the covenant extends to all its covenfolk?
- Are covenfolk permitted to own property within the covenant? What about outside of it?
- Are covenfolk permitted to travel?
- Does the covenant recognise the right of outside authorities to impose their laws on covenfolk, either while travelling or at home?
- Are covenfolk permitted to practise any religion they please?
(A common set of covenfolk offices is a Steward who handles the business side of the covenant, a Chamberlain who handles the day-to-day running, and a Guard Captain or Turb Captain who leads the soldiers. Sometimes the steward and chamberlain are folded into a single role called the Autocrat. Some covenants - Three Lakes being a good example - also recognise each magician's primary servant as being higher in status than the other covenfolk, and the servant of each council member as being equal in status with the steward and chamberlain.)
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Post by momothefiddler »

Laertes wrote:That looks good. A few sections you might need to explicitly rule on because they end up being important:
Thanks! I'll both answer these here and make adjustments to the document.

Sancta (I hadn't really considered this one)
- How many is each magus allowed?
- How large can a sanctum be?
- How often can you move your sanctum?
(There are cases of people declaring every room they're in to be their sanctum while they're in it, or declaring the entire covenant to be their sanctum, so it's worth making these rules. Many lab rat characters may wish to have multiple specialised labs within their sanctum, more social magi often include guest chambers and suchlike within it, and magi who go in for big weird projects may want the infrastructure for those within their sanctum. Can Orsen, for example, claim a patch of forest as his sanctum?)
Every magus with the status of Comrade is entitled to a sanctum of at least seven paces by seven paces or equivalent area, in a location agreed upon by the council or its appointed officer. This sanctum can be moved at any time with a vote of the council or the permission of the officer.

Mundane Money
- Is the Bursar allowed to limit people's lab expenditures?
Inasmuch as he's the one who approves them, yes.
- Are magi given their own separate pocket money from communal stocks? Magi that travel a lot would need it, while lab rats probably wouldn't. Many magi find the idea of going cap in hand before the council to ask for silver to be degrading.
No. Comrades may request a lump sum for broad expenditures, such as "refitting a lab" or "travelling", but, if granted, the Bursar is entitled to demand an accounting on return.
- Are magi permitted to maintain their own private moneymaking schemes?
No. I mean sure, but the money still goes to the covenant, unless it's done in service to another covenant, or a House, or something, thus "This council lays claim to all monies generated or obtained by Comrades or Wards in service to the covenant."

Vis
- Is there a regular vis salary paid from the communal stocks? If so, how much and how often?
No.
- What is the procedure for deciding who gets the most sought-after types of vis?
That's the Treasurer's call. It's an important office.
- Are magi permitted to maintain their own private vis sources?
See moneymaking schemes.
- Is there a restriction placed on the hunting of supernatural creatures for vis? For example, are you allowed to hunt angels for Divine vis?
!?! I didn't realize this was a thing. I'd say beyond the restrictions in the Hermetic Code, this is a matter for a council measure, not part of the charter.

Non-Hermetic Magi
- Is "Join or Die" going to be enforced?
No.
- Is trading with them regulated through a covenant officer?
I'm not sure I understand why that would be necessary. Trading would be done on the behalf of the covenant anyway.
- Are individual magi allowed to trade with or make war on them without the covenant's approval?
No. Both of those things directly involve the rest of the covenant.
- Does the covenant recognise the right of non-Hermetic groups to own vis sources?
Certainly.

Dispute Resolution
- Is there a mechanism for resolving disputes between two magi?
If there is an appointed officer with jurisdiction over the issue, he rules. Otherwise... I guess a council meeting. Ideally people will resolve things between themselves except in the case of major issues, but that's not necessarily the case.
- What if neither magus wants the rest of the covenant to butt their nose into their dispute?
Well, there's always Wizard War, haha. I think I'll add that any mage who declares Wizard War forfeits the protection and rights of Comrade for as long as he forfeits the protection and rights of the Code of Hermes.
- What if it's a dispute between a magus and a grog?
This is important. A Comrade has access to the services of the Wards, but this is mediated by the Steward (or possibly the Chamberlain if I split that). In case of a disagreement, the appointed officer still makes the call. Beyond services and council votes, a Comrade has no special authority or precedence over a Ward.
- What if it's a dispute between a local magus and a visitor?
A Protected Guest is allowed the same dispute resolution as a Comrade, but note that the Protected Guest status may be withdrawn by the usual means.
- How will the covenant agreement be modified?
The charter may be modified by a unanimous agreement of the council.

Hospitality
- Is the covenant permitted to refuse hospitality to individual magi?
I don't see why not.
- Are covenant magi permitted to invite anyone they please without asking the rest of the covenant?
Yes, per the provision for Protected Guest status.
- Does the covenant maintain a "whitelist" or "blacklist" for visitors?
A blacklist makes sense. Anyone expelled from the covenant is automatically on there, as well as anyone the council votes to add. No-one on the blacklist may be granted any of the three statuses, and it requires a vote of the council to remove someone.
- Are visitors permitted to cast spells?
Hm... Yeah, I guess so.
- Are visitors allowed to hunt for vis in the covenant hinterland? If they do, to whom does this vis belong?
Oh dang. Uh... yeah, that would go to the covenant.
- Are visitors allowed to copy books? If they do, to whom do these copies belong?
They're allowed to make copies with authorization from the Treasurer or other appropriate officer, in which case they may keep them.

Covenfolk (Note that the covenfolk hold the status of Ward - there is no longer any text referring to inhabitants as property, so the three statuses are the only ones recognized.)
- Which offices does the covenant recognise?
"The Covenant Council shall appoint positions including, but not limited to, Steward, Bursar, and Treasurer."
- What method exists for the covenfolk to petition the council for redress?
This falls under the dispute between Comrade and Ward thing. Perhaps I should give officers the ability to call council meetings even if they're not Comrades.
- Are there any basic rights or protections that the covenant extends to all its covenfolk?
Yes. As Wards of the Council, they gain all basic rights.
- Are covenfolk permitted to own property within the covenant? What about outside of it?
No and... probably no. Not sure how I wanna handle that one.
- Are covenfolk permitted to travel?
If the Steward allows.
- Does the covenant recognise the right of outside authorities to impose their laws on covenfolk, either while travelling or at home?
Hm... not more than on Comrades. I suppose it's reasonable to expect people to abide by the laws of the place they are, but the covenant is largely sovereign, so....
- Are covenfolk permitted to practise any religion they please?
Sure. I'll add that to basic rights.
(A common set of covenfolk offices is a Steward who handles the business side of the covenant, a Chamberlain who handles the day-to-day running, and a Guard Captain or Turb Captain who leads the soldiers. Sometimes the steward and chamberlain are folded into a single role called the Autocrat. Some covenants - Three Lakes being a good example - also recognise each magician's primary servant as being higher in status than the other covenfolk, and the servant of each council member as being equal in status with the steward and chamberlain.)
Hm. Sounds almost like my Burser and Steward are properly a Steward and Chamberlain, respectively. Is that true?
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Post by momothefiddler »

To clarify, this is what Camille's proposing. (Maybe I'll have her write it up or something?) I invite people to object and disagree and haggle and compromise, certainly. I only mean it to be a starting point.

EDIT: I've modified the IC post to reflect that.
Last edited by momothefiddler on Sat Jul 19, 2014 6:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Laertes »

For reference, here is how several covenants I've seen in actual play have done their government.

Carlisle Covenant
All vis was shared out immediately; however, everyone was expected to contribute to joint needs from their own vis stocks. We were expected to do one season of work for the covenant's benefit per year. There was a rotating chairman who was responsible for deciding what you would do as your season of covenant service, but in practise this decision was kibitzed and nitpicked over extensively by everyone else and thus the chairman was merely there to assume blame if it turned out to be a bad decision.

All magi were granted the right to have as large a sanctum as we wanted; this would have bankrupted the covenant except that we gleefully skirted the edge of the Code by selling large amounts of enchanted items to local merchants which allowed them to make massive profits, in exchange for a cut of those profits.

In theory disputes would be resolved by a council vote; in practise none came up.

Covenfolk were held to be working for individual magi rather than the covenant as a whole. This was a very expensive practise but we didn't care. It did allow everybody to go off on mad individual projects without disturbing everyone else.
Beziege Covenant (EJ's tenure as GM)
Our covenfolk consisted of an unworkably large pile of "people nobody else in France wanted", leading to a castle full of Cathars, Jews, Pagans and criminals of one sort or another.

All vis was held communally; people could request an amount from it if need be but everyone else would then receive an equal share. Bickering over who got the Creo vis was *intense.* In practise the covenant was vis-rich enough that it really wasn't an issue; if we needed vis we would trade huge piles of Auram or Aquam to someone else at an unfavourable exchange rate to get it. We had a Tremere in the party so we could trade with their strategic reserves too.

In theory everyone had to do a season of covenant service every year. However, everyone got to decide what this was for themselves, which meant that everyone found a way to count whatever they were doing on their own projects as being their covenant service. If we couldn't claim that with a straight face, we generally either wrote books at too low a Quality for anyone to care about, or refined vis which just went on the pile and so nobody cared.

The covenant did a *lot* of teaching one another, which worked incredibly well in making us all more powerful. Since everybody was packing Affinity it meant that we had specialised researchers in every field who would do the primary research, and then would teach everybody else to bring them up to speed.

Every magus had affairs going on outside the covenant; as such we recognised their right to hold their own money and vis from those affairs. Given that one of them was Tremere and one was Verditius, it was difficult to pretend that they didn't have their own vis anyway; and given that two others were interfering with mundanes in a pretty serious way during the Albigensian Crusade, they needed to raise their own funds for that since the covenant didn't want to openly flout the Code by directly funding the Cathar cause.
Beziege Covenant (Liz's tenure as GM)
Leadership was a matter of specialised roles: one magus was in charge of relations with other magi, one was in charge of relations with mundanes, one was in charge of magical resources, one in charge of mundane resources and the covenant buildings, and one was in charge of covenant defence. If the covenant suffered in a particular field then that was the fault of the person responsible; they were supposed to mobilise everyone else to do whatever work was needed.

We gave up the concept of needing to do seasons of covenant service because the covenant didn't need more unreadable books or piles of refined Vim vis. Instead we spent covenant vis on stuff when we needed it, including paying members of the covenant with our communal vis to do stuff that needed doing.

Disputes between magi were handled by duelling. This worked well because our Tremere pretty much sucked at certamen and both the Flambeau and Merinita were better than her. When that didn't work disputes were handled by the fact that the covenant had a Bonisagus who could threaten to take your apprentice away if you misbehaved.

Important covenant matters were handled by whomever cared enough to do them; if nobody cared then it was held to evidently not be important. If necessary, the person deciding to do them took what resources they felt necessary from the communal stores to resolve the issue. This was usually, but not always, the person whose sphere of responsibility it was - in some cases the person formally responsible didn't give a damn and someone else really really did, so they just went ahead and did it.
Stonydean Covenant
Initially there was a three person council who made the decisions because it was felt that a small council would be quick and decisive; gradually this expanded to include all the PC magi and then several mundanes who were granted a seat and a vote for one reason or another. For example, a representative of the covenfolk was granted a seat as a way of preventing a mutiny.

Vis was shared out except the bits that nobody wanted, which were held communally. The main use for vis was trading it for books; the covenant built up a terrifying library. They traded the right to copy their books to other covenants in exchange for even more books. People were occasionally allowed to come and study in exchange for various favours.

The covenfolk had split into several fairly antagonistic factions, some of which had magi backers and some of which didn't. These groups were allowed to bicker as long as they got their jobs done. The covenfolk offices, like steward and chamberlain, were prizes that these groups fought over for their leaders. Most of those factions were fairly disarmed anyway, due to the covenant relying on mercenaries as guards rather than training locals. This wasn't because of the antagonistic factionalism, this was because the high death rate of soldiers while bodyguarding magi during their crazy adventures meant they needed a lot of replaceable manpower.

The covenant finances were monitored steadily and as they rose, people would be allowed to spend more on their labs and personal projects. The Verditius was exempted from this at the point at which he started selling charged items on the open market to raise enough private cash to build a Palatial Size +6 lab and raise his own private army. Eventually magi started building secondary labs and suchlike; they would often have multiple sancti scattered about the covenant.

Local hedge magi - of which there were a number - were traded with by individual magi and ignored by others. They got to be quite friendly in the end, and allied with them against an external threat. However, when other Hermetics decided to come along and wipe out the hedge magi, the covenant felt it best to step in and help wipe out the hedge magi so that all the spoils wouldn't fall into other people's hands.

Communal effort was achieved mostly through persuasion and a system of peer-approval which could only work for relatively friendly people who cared what each other thought. In retrospect it worked pretty well, and meant that everyone wanted to contribute because nobody wanted to be left out.

External relations were neglected to the point that the campaign endgame took them almost completely by surprise, at which point they panicked and played right into the hands of the villains, acting as their catspaws in several matters and then only winning due to phenomenal firepower and high levels of PC-esque cunning. This is not recommended as a good method of governing one's external relations.
Last edited by Laertes on Sat Jul 19, 2014 7:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Laertes »

Some bits of Hermetic law you may be interested in

On Books and Hermetic Law (also known as the Cow and Calf oath)

"Who owns the cow owns the calf."

The Order of Hermes is a knowledge-based institution. Knowledge is power in a very direct way. The ownership of books is a large part of that power: books are a quick way to disseminate information, and a good library is a powerful way to accelerate the training of new magi. This means that books are extremely expensive and restricted: nobody wants to share their power and certainly not for free. The covenant of Durenmar, for example, requires visitors who wish to read a book there to donate three pawns of vis per season of study, or to spend two seasons copying books per season of study. Durenmar's policy is considered a very generous one: most covenants use access to their very best books as a diplomatic bargaining chip.

Every so often, a young magus wonders what would happen if they ended the scarcity of books and made them freely available to anyone. It would benefit the Order, they claim, and in many cases they're right. However, restrictions on information sharing tend to be extremely popular and since Hermetic law is made via popular vote, things like the Cow and Calf oath exist.

The Cow and Calf oath is a simple agreement that is sworn whenever a book is received. It states firstly that the new owner recognises that any new copies made of the book are the property of the owner of the master copy. Secondly, it states that the new owner will not sell on the book without making the new owner swear the same oath.

For example, the master copy of Notatus's Institutiones ad Sciendum is held at the covenant of Fengheld, although many other copies exist in other libraries. However, if a copyist makes a copy of it in any other library, the ownership of that new copy reverts to Fengheld, not to the copyist or to the owner of the scribed copy. In most cases the holder of the master copy is the author or the covenant where the author lived. Disputes under the Cow and Calf oath are generally resolved under the "deprivation of magical power" clause of the Code, since anyone copying without permission or retaining a copy without payment can be regarded as committing book theft, a matter that the Code takes a dim view of.

Some Hermetic writers release their books without any Cow and Calf oath being sworn, either with an alternative form of control or simply out of largesse and a desire to see their own name immortalised. In other cases the authorship of a book may be unknown or disputed, or the covenant which owned the master copy abandoned, or the master copy destroyed or stolen, and thus it is impossible to enforce the Cow and Calf oath. This is very commonly the case for books written in tribunals where the rights of individual magi are strong and the rights of covenants are weak, meaning that the "rightful possession" of a book after the authors death can be disputed between their apprentices rather than it simply becoming covenant property.

Traditionally, House Tremere are the strictest enforcers of the Cow and Calf oath, and House Bonisagus is the most likely to release books without it. Indeed, the septennial Folios of House Bonisagus are released with no rights reserved to the author at all, and certain of Bonisagus's own writings such as De Parma Magica and the Ars Magica itself are similarly free to copy. However, many individual Bonisagus authors choose to use the oath or variants of it, just as many Tremere authors choose to go without. As always, the Order is a society of of individuals and generalisation is difficult.
On Sancta

Within your sanctum, it is your perfect and well-established right to slay any other magus you please. This is a basic principle of self defence and magical privacy that is recognised throughout the Order. As such, rules governing the demarcation and declaration of sancta tend to be hot buttons: more than one murder case has hinged on whether the victim was lured into a sanctum or whether the sanctum was properly marked.

The most famous exception is that members of House Guernicus may enter the sancta of members of House Tytalus without invitation or warning. There are other exceptions on a local or covenant basis, however these are sometimes subject to being overruled by tribunals except in regions where covenants retain more legal rights than individual magi.

Because of this, or perhaps leading to it, is the assumption that anyone inside your sanctum is up to something illicit. Perhaps they're scrying, perhaps they're attempting to deprive you of magical power, perhaps they're even trying to kill you. Regardless, they are not there for a good reason and self defence is generally found acceptable at an investigation. A clear invitation for the purposes of cooperative lab work is often enough to make it harder to get away with murder, but there are cases where it has happened.

Many magi maintain meeting rooms immediately outside of their sanctum for just this reason.
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momothefiddler
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Post by momothefiddler »

Oh my fucking god, the Order has intellectual property laws in the 13th century? And they unironically named them after owning entire bloodlines of animals because ~reasons~? Fucking hell.
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Post by Laertes »

The Cow and Calf oath does get referred to as "Hermetic Copyright" by players a fair bit. The name is a biblical reference - 13th century Europe was big on its biblical references.

From the point of view of modern intellectual property laws, one must remember that the landscape is very different from nowadays. The Order doesn't have big media companies which control content and farm it out to a large consumer base; rather, every Hermetic magus tends to be both a consumer and a producer of books. It doesn't really matter how weak or how powerful you are: if you've got a Communication of at least +2 then there are people right now who are very interested in reading a tractatus you've written, particularly if it's in an obscure field like spell mastery or various Lores. If you have time to sit and write you may well be able to make a steady income from it - ironically this often favours younger magi whose time is less valuable and who need laws to secure their rights because they can't just use the threat of force.

I have anarchist friends who tell me that this is the sort of system they would like to see replace our current copyright system. I'm not an anarchist so I don't particularly care.
Last edited by Laertes on Mon Jul 21, 2014 7:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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momothefiddler
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Post by momothefiddler »

I can see how people who liked copyrights but disliked centralized authority would like this sort of thing.
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Post by Laertes »

It's nice to see our steward get a name and a voice - he's more overly dramatic than I expected but now I can't hear him in any other tone. The only thing that puzzles me is that Volga Bulgars were predominantly Muslims with some Tengrist influence? Possibly Iosif converted to Christianity (which explains why he left) or perhaps he's just a liar who's happy to tell people whatever they want to hear. Either is possible but they give different character interpretations.

Let's see what the next person to play him makes of him.
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