The Gaming Den

...after all, it's not like players would ever want to be ev41, would they?

I just wanted to share that, one month ago, I played a lvl 2 necromancer with a retinue of 5 shadows (it all started as a hostile encounter involving 1 shadow and 6 tieflings...)

Is it just me or Rebuke Undead (or Power Over Undead in PF) kinda breaks the game as soon as viral undead enter the picture? Right now my necro is lvl 4 and has 22 shadows... I even deflected MC's attempt at dick waving by WTF0wning the Osylut he put there for his ubah NPC to beat while the PCs (were supposed to) just stare in awe from the kids' table.

...furthermore, he committed the mistake of providing us on session 3 with an indestructible scroll case made of handwavium, which I'll now use to safe-keep my shadow army (and future incorporeal undead in our way, but I somehow doubt we'll see more of them in game) so they won't just go poof at the first fireball.

So how did your level 2 Necromancer count as a level 10 one for the purpose of Turning in order to Rebuke -> Command a 2(+3) HD Shadow?

Other than that, yes, once you can command spawners it goes crazy and people who play the game tend to know that.

Doesn't work like that anymore Koumei, it's a charisma-based will save (10+1/2 level+Cha).

What is notable about the new rebuking is that intelligent undead get a save every day, but as they are treated as under control undead, I'm not sure if you can just arbitrarily command them to fail their saves. Pathfinder!

CapnTthePirateG wrote:Doesn't work like that anymore Koumei, it's a charisma-based will save (10+1/2 level+Cha).

What is notable about the new rebuking is that intelligent undead get a save every day, but as they are treated as under control undead, I'm not sure if you can just arbitrarily command them to fail their saves. Pathfinder!

Seems like you could just order the first one to make a spawn, then order him to order his spawn to always obey you, then kill the first one. Then you would not have daily saves for the second one, who is your new number one guy.

Don't spawn stop following the orders of their creator when their creator dies?

rampaging-poet wrote:Don't spawn stop following the orders of their creator when their creator dies?

I don't know, probably depends on the spawn. I know vampire Spawn get to be real Vampires or something, but not sure about Shadows. Replace it with "lock in a closet" if you really need to.

I just checked the Pathfinder SRD, and it looks like Shadows are the only core undead that didn't get the now-standard explicit statement that spawn become free-willed after their creator's destruction. Shadow spawn are also the only spawn that don't get a bunch of penalities for being spawn. They are therefore the best choice for a necromancer creating a self-perpetuating undead horde. Wights are next on the list because they are easy to lock in a closet.

Sadly, it's hard to get a closet to lock a wight army in when you're a nomadic murderhobo.

No one said you have to stay with the closet. Lock it in some random commoner's closet then leave town.

"Honey, where's my coa— Oh sweet Pelor the pain!"

Dogbert wrote:Sadly, it's hard to get a closet to lock a wight army in when you're a nomadic murderhobo.

You don't lock an army in a closet. You lock the one monster you turned in the closet, and the rest all obey you forever without out question. So that one can be literally anywhere in the universe and you don't care, because you have a giant army that obeys you without question as long as that one is alive. So put him in a portable hole, and then just keep the hole closed forever.

Although, as mentioned, Shadows you can totally just kill the first one and have the rest follow your orders forever.

Control Undead is arguable better. It has duration: yes, and there is no rolling involved.

But yes. Undead is Real Ultimate Power, and also available right out of the gate.

Kaelik wrote:You lock the one monster you turned in the closet, and the rest all obey you forever without out question. So that one can be literally anywhere in the universe and you don't care, because you have a giant army that obeys you without question as long as that one is alive. So put him in a portable hole, and then just keep the hole closed forever.

Ok, GREAT advice, thanks!