Netrunner

silva · Post by **silva** » Sun Mar 16, 2014 6:05 am

( I didnt find a section for card/boardgames so Im opening this here, but if its wrong, please transfer it to the right section )

So, anyone here play Netrunner ? I have the core box and played some 20 games of it and love it. I ordered all the expansions from the first cycles, and Im eager to try them out.

What are your thoughts on the game ?

K · Post by K » Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:40 am

Super-fun. Definitely needs a better-written introduction to the rules for first-time players.

Dominicius · Post by **Dominicius** » Sun Mar 16, 2014 8:06 am

K wrote:Super-fun. Definitely needs a better-written introduction to the rules for first-time players.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAslVfZ9p-Y

This official tutorial does a good job of teaching you the ropes while also being quite stylish to boot.

rasmuswagner · Post by **rasmuswagner** » Sun Mar 16, 2014 9:47 am

All those tags..."Here's a pile of information. We're not going to tell you what it means, you'll have to watch that emerge from play" is a terrible way to introduce beginners.

TheFlatline · Post by **TheFlatline** » Sun Mar 16, 2014 8:06 pm

Actually this is getting more common in the board game world. I know Race for the Galaxy made zero fucking sense to me the 4 times I tried to learn it. I watched a 10 minute video on how it plays, and it made perfect sense.

Rule books for board games are notoriously bad.

Ravengm · Post by **Ravengm** » Wed Mar 19, 2014 8:13 pm

Yeah, the rulebook is kind of a "gameplay lite" version of the rules. The video is much more helpful.

That said, this game is one of my current obsessions. I'm lucky to be in an area where there are a decent amount of people (I play in tournaments with the guy who got 2nd at Worlds), so I get to play pretty often. I have a store championship I'm going to on Saturday, even.

FFG has leeched a ton of money form me over this game.

silva · Post by **silva** » Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:14 pm

Raven, what do you think about the expansion cycles ?

Ive got the first one (Genesis), but I dont know if I will keep buying the others. Do you think Core + Genesis is enough to settle in and get almost infinite replayability from the game ?

Also, I saw the Spin cycle has a new runner (Reina Roja) who uses "Caissas" or something, which make hacking look like chess. Does it really add to the game for you, or is it just some rule gymnastics they did for keeping millking money from the fans ?

Ravengm · Post by **Ravengm** » Wed Mar 19, 2014 11:31 pm

The biggest part of the Spin cycle is that it helped out the corp in a big way, with better cheap ice, better agendas and Jackson Howard, "lord and savior of all corporations".

That said, if you're having fun and are satisfied with core + Genesis, then you don't need to go on a purchasing spree for Spin. If you plan on playing in tournaments, you'll probably want to pick up a pack or two since there are some key cards, depending on what faction you play.

The Caïssa pieces are half-gimmick and half actually good cards. Knight and Rook in particular are the ones to look out for.

The thing I like about the game so far, and a large part of why I make and remake decks so much, is that the designers are intentionally printing cards for breadth of the game rather than depth, at least at the moment. As a general rule, the game is less about making cards that are good for existing strategies and more about making cards that create new ones. See Cerebral Imaging, Celebrity Gift, Accelerated Diagnostics, Self-Modifying Code, and Clone Chip.

So, basically, buying more cards will open up new strategies that you can play around with. Personal Workshop was one of the big ones from the Genesis cycle, so you've probably tinkered around with that.

To reiterate my main point, if you're having fun, there's no obligation to buy more cards. There's a good amount of replayability, though not infinite.

silva · Post by **silva** » Thu Mar 20, 2014 1:53 am

Thanks for the help, Raven.

Do you think the "deluxe packs" (creation and control and the new one, honor and profit) are worth it ? I wonder if they really add substance to the game, of if they just water it down with lots of weak cards..

JesterZero · Post by **JesterZero** » Thu Mar 20, 2014 2:16 am

As an alternative to chasing endless expansions, buying another core set also opens up a lot of additional deckbuilding options and makes the game quite a bit more re-playable. With only one core set, you tend to see a lot of the same decks over and over again.

You could always just head straight to ebay as well; you can often find lots of the the 2x core cards for about half the price of a core set. It depends a bit on what 1) your deckbuilding goals are, and 2) your game night looks like.

DragonChild · Post by **DragonChild** » Thu Mar 20, 2014 2:55 am

Keep in mind all card spoilers can be previewed here: http://www.cardgamedb.com/index.php/net ... -spoilers/

Creation and Control is pretty integral, I think. Big cards in it are:

-Kit and Professor, two runners who play REALLY weirdly
-Clone Chip, which lets Shaper parasite BS come into its own.
-Self Modifying Code and Test Run/Scavenge, search effects that shapers frankly outright needed.
-Atman, a bizarre new strategy that's pretty fun.
-A lot less, admittedly, for HB, but their new IDs are pretty cool; NEXT design and Cerebral Imaging are both really wacky if you're into that.

Reina isn't particularly connected to the chess pieces mechanically at all - she likes Rook, but everyone loves Knight, especially Gave.

I play it weekly, and am pretty happy to stay up to date, but can understand that being a bit much for people.

Also, the rulebook is the worst FFG rulebook I've ever seen, and that's a harsh criticism - I had to have a friend teach me the game, myself.

silva · Post by **silva** » Thu Mar 20, 2014 4:12 pm

Thanks for the spoiler link! I didnt know it existed.

Hmm... HB cards are pretty interesting in that a bunch of them have a catch to it, like the very Director Haas show. If anything Ive found HB and Wayland corps too "safe" to play in the Core, to the point of going against the game spirit (correct me if Im mistaken, but I think all netrunner factions should have its fair share of risk).

And the new Runners are intriguing. That professor dude can ignore influence for the first copy of other fations cards, right ? What does it mean in practice ? That he could build the most heterogeneous deck ever, picking criminal, shaper and anarch best cards ? (but only reduced to 2 copies of each) Is that right ?

Pedantic · Post by **Pedantic** » Thu Mar 20, 2014 4:22 pm

It's specifically the first program, and he has one influence outside of that. So, he gets 1 copy of any program he'd like out of faction, and then he can take another copy of a 1-influence program if he'd like.

Honestly, he's not great right now, partially because he was released with the shaper megapack, so shapers still arguably have the most toys to play with. However, he's bound to become more and more interesting as the card pool increases and the total number of out of faction programs grows. I'm particularly interested to see what he's like after the Criminal/Jinteki deluxe expansion drops.

DragonChild · Post by **DragonChild** » Thu Mar 20, 2014 5:16 pm

The Professor isn't too great - but his style is generally grab 1x a bunch of different neat programs, and use search and rescursion (test run, clone chip, self-modifying code) to find the exact program they need. Here's an example professor decklist: http://stimhack.com/winning-decklists-s ... ourg-2014/ But yeah, IMO he's not too great right now, but the more weird programs come out, the better he'll be.

Kit, IMO, is far stranger and more fun. I won a store championship with her, my decklist here: http://stimhack.com/winning-decklists-m ... ship-2014/

silva · Post by **silva** » Thu Mar 20, 2014 5:23 pm

Yeah, thinking again, he looks crap. Getting just 1 copy of each card doesnt make much sense. It would make it difficult to rely on a consistent strategy that way. (Ie: how to rely on Personal Workshop or, say, Yog.Os, if you just have 1 copy of each ??? )

fectin · Post by **fectin** » Thu Mar 20, 2014 5:52 pm

Card draw and card search. Same as unque/legendary/whatever cards in other games.

Ravengm · Post by **Ravengm** » Thu Mar 20, 2014 9:53 pm

silva wrote:Do you think the "deluxe packs" (creation and control and the new one, honor and profit) are worth it ? I wonder if they really add substance to the game, of if they just water it down with lots of weak cards..

There are a bunch of very useful cards on the runner side for Creation & Control. Off the top of my head, the ones that see significant competitive play include, but aren't limited to, Scavenge, Clone Chip, Atman, Self-Modifying Code, Professional Contacts, Dirty Laundry, Daily Casts, and Same Old Thing. There are more that see fringe play, too. The corp side is definitely weaker, but Director Haas' Pet Project, Efficiency Committee, and Bastion see play a lot.

Kit is really the only ID that sees significant play on the runner side (unfortunate since I love Exile to death), but both NEXT Design and Cerebral Imaging see play on the corp's end.

Here's a list of everything you get from the box. Check it out.

As for Honor & Profit, I'm a Jinteki fanboy so I'll probably love the box regardless of what cards are in it. We know 31/55 of them so far.

silva wrote:Yeah, thinking again, he looks crap. Getting just 1 copy of each card doesnt make much sense. It would make it difficult to rely on a consistent strategy that way. (Ie: how to rely on Personal Workshop or, say, Yog.Os, if you just have 1 copy of each ??? )

As the card pool is right now, he's not very good. It's entirely possible that can change in the future if there are a ton of high-influence awesome programs that get released, but there just aren't enough reasons to cripple your influence on events and resources at the moment. There's enough tutoring and card selection in the environment for that to not be a huge deal though.

silva · Post by **silva** » Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:42 pm

Whats "tutoring" ?

Heh, Honor & Profit runners seem infinitely more awesome than Creation and Control ones. The biker dude looks an even more aggressive version of Gabriel, the covert operative looks cool as hell (its already my favorite one), and the ex-government freak is weird in a cool way (letting the corp get ahead then coming back for a win!). Crazy shit in that expansion.

TiaC · Post by **TiaC** » Fri Mar 21, 2014 12:15 am

silva wrote:Whats "tutoring" ?

Language from MTG, it means to search your library for a card and put it into hand. (There are 15 MTG cards with the word tutor in the name, they all do this.)

silva · Post by **silva** » Fri Mar 21, 2014 12:48 am

Thanks, TiaC.

Man, Im loving the Honor & Profit spoilers! One thing I really like in Netrunner is how roleplayish it is. If you notice, that helmet-cyberdeck is the one Silhouette is carrying under her arms (and it synnergizes perfectly with her special ability).

And if you notice in this event, its the Kati Jones connection helping her to exfiltrate the building, shadowrun-style!

Man, I will have to buy this expansion for the coolness factor alone.

Ravengm · Post by **Ravengm** » Fri Mar 21, 2014 4:47 pm

silva wrote:One thing I really like in Netrunner is how roleplayish it is.

There really is a ton of continuity between mechanics, art, and flavor text. A reasonable portion of it is carried over from the Android board game, which was really high on the immersion factor. The setting is really well fleshed-out from a flavor perspective.

TheFlatline · Post by **TheFlatline** » Fri Mar 21, 2014 6:15 pm

silva wrote:Thanks for the help, Raven.

Do you think the "deluxe packs" (creation and control and the new one, honor and profit) are worth it ? I wonder if they really add substance to the game, of if they just water it down with lots of weak cards..

With FFG, the big box expansions are pretty much *always* worth getting. They usually represent significant power upgrades intentionally.

silva · Post by **silva** » Mon Mar 24, 2014 11:35 pm

What so you guys think will be the next deluxe expansion, and how will they do it ? I mean, the exp use 2 opposing factions but now there are 2 corps against 1 single runner faction left.

Also, are there cards that you think should be in any winning deck, regardless of faction ?

fectin · Post by **fectin** » Tue Mar 25, 2014 12:08 am

Ravengm wrote:
silva wrote:One thing I really like in Netrunner is how roleplayish it is.
There really is a ton of continuity between mechanics, art, and flavor text. A reasonable portion of it is carried over from the Android board game, which was really high on the immersion factor. The setting is really well fleshed-out from a flavor perspective.

For a while, L5R was hands-down, no-question the absolute best at this. Various major storyline events were determined by which faction brought the best cosplay. I don't know if it's still true, but that was fantastic. Their tournaments were also the best and most polite (I once won a prize better than the tournament winner for conceding especially gracefully in a break round). Literally, the standard phrase for informing someone that your turn was over was "the table is yours." The Mantis kotei still take place on a boat!

OgreBattle · Post by **OgreBattle** » Tue Mar 25, 2014 11:40 am

The only CCG's I know are Magic and Pokemon, so how is Netrunner in the context of those two?

It's a Deckmasters game right?