[3.Tomefinder] Beer & Pretzels PbP Recruiting

Grek · Post by **Grek** » Fri Mar 21, 2014 8:49 am

radthemad4 wrote:Grek: Sure, that seems okay. Wondering what a good way to resolve Dirty Tricks in Tome would be...

Perhaps Touch Attack followed by d20 + Dex Mod + BAB against a DC of 10 +Opponent's BAB + opponent's reflex save bonus.

The Pathfinder version is 1d20 + BaB + Str + Size as a standard action vs. 10 + BaB + Str + Dex + Size. If you were wanting to switch it to an attack action that did weapon damage instead of a standard action that didn't, I could see also making it require a successful attack roll in addition to the maneuver check.

radthemad4 · Post by **radthemad4** » Fri Mar 21, 2014 9:46 am

At the moment I'm considering Touch Attack first, followed by the Maneuver check shown above. Hmm how about:

Dex Check + BAB vs 10 + BAB + Relevant Save bonus

Fort for sickened and deafened
Reflex for entangled and blinded
Will for shaken and dazzled

Trips and Grapples in Tome are preceded by a touch attack in Tome, but Feints and Disarms aren't. This was just my stab at it. I'm open to more ideas about Tomeifying Dirty Trick.

Perhaps I should post this in IMHO for feedback.

Grek · Post by **Grek** » Fri Mar 21, 2014 10:01 am

Neither Tome of Battle special attack actions or Pathfidner combat maneuvers reference save bonuses. It would be really weird if this was the only thing that did. How about making it work like the Tome version of Feint, except with Sleight of Hand instead of Bluff?

As an attack action, make a Sleight of Hand check against a DC of 10 + DC of 10 + the higher of your opponent's BAB or ranks in Perception + a stat bonus based on the affliction to be inflicted:

Con: Sickened, Deafened or (with the feat) Nauseated.
Dex: Entangled, Blinded or (with the feat) On Fire.
Wis: Shaken, Dazzled or (with the feat) Confused.

Edge Option: If you have the Edge on your target and you successfully play a dirty trick, you may make an attack against that opponent this round as a Swift action.

Lokathor · Post by **Lokathor** » Fri Mar 21, 2014 10:06 am

Alright, here's a sorcerer outline (sans items)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... MGc#gid=10

I know that Prak is doing the fey cat thing, but I don't think there'll be a concept clash or anything since i'm going the infernaly sort of route. If so, I could make something else (Travel/?? Cleric? Druid that trades Wildshape for some Spheres? Dunno).

radthemad4 · Post by **radthemad4** » Fri Mar 21, 2014 10:06 am

Grek: I like it. Still, I'd like to hear what the others think.

radthemad4 · Post by **radthemad4** » Fri Mar 21, 2014 10:25 am

Lokathor: I think you might find this page more user friendly: http://dndwiki.com/wiki/Sorcerer,_Tome_%283.5e_Class%29

Btw, it says "In addition, at every class level above first, a Sorcerer learns a new spell of his choice drawn from the sorcerer/wizard spell list, which may be of any level up to the highest spell level he is able to cast.", so I think you're supposed to get two additional spells whereas you've got four.

You do however also get a familiar and a Sorcerous Technique (one option for that is a bonus spell, which you can change every time you get a new spell level).

Tome Aasimar right?

Another vote: Pokemon as random wandering monsters. Yes or no?

Lokathor · Post by **Lokathor** » Fri Mar 21, 2014 3:11 pm

Ohhhhhh, eventually two spells per spell level, not two spells per level. Well, that's unfortunate. I liked the other way better.

I don't find familiars interesting at all and I figured I skipped that part already since I thought that's what "arcane bond" was and it wasn't on my bloodline. I vote to replace that with "You're ageless since you're filled with devil power".

I guess I'll grab Armored Mage for now, but most of the rest of those techniques look boring and I think I'll come up with some new ones to vote on as we go.

I guess I get more skills than I thought though, apparently. So I adjusted my Int down by 2 and my Str/Con up by 2, then picked up Diplomacy. Assuming we're keeping the normal cross-class rank limits but getting 1 rank per skill point even in cross class skills, then that all suits me just fine.

Yes, tome Aasimar of course.

Question: I get Know(Nobility) and Know(The Planes) as class skills, and I can get skill mastery later. Under your "eliminate knowledge skills" system which skills would those translate to?

Pokemon Vote: Only use the more "normal monster" ones that are already the kind of thing you might find in DnD (jolteon, charmander, exeggcute, etc), none of the weird techy ones (the gear one, porygon, voltorb, etc), that kinda breaks the feel of the setting. And... don't have them say their name. just have them make animal noises or speak a language regularly.

Grek · Post by **Grek** » Fri Mar 21, 2014 4:02 pm

I'm fine with pokeymons. Even the weird techy ones - they can be exotic forms of constructs.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Fri Mar 21, 2014 4:06 pm

Part of why I don't have a character up yet is that I'm still trying to decide between the ideas. All I know is that I will be some form of arcane caster. And probably "furry." I actually didn't much like the tome sorcerer either, so if I go with Lord Meow, I'd probably make him a warlock or conduit. Or maybe a warmage.

Grek · Post by **Grek** » Fri Mar 21, 2014 4:16 pm

E: Screw being a Jester. It's too much work to make roguish character. Let's be a Time Mage instead:

Pankas Trannth's Character Sheet

Lokathor · Post by **Lokathor** » Fri Mar 21, 2014 8:24 pm

One of my sorcerer ability ideas was gonna be where, between adventures or during mpntages, i'd go off on wild time hijinks and age like 2d100 years (technically pointless since I'm an immortal outsider), then come back with a free minor item (5kgp or less) as the actual benefit. Dr. who style.

Perhaps we could go on time side-adventures together, or maybe i'll have to think up another thing.

Grek · Post by **Grek** » Fri Mar 21, 2014 8:28 pm

I'm down for time hijinks.

radthemad4 · Post by **radthemad4** » Fri Mar 21, 2014 8:31 pm

Lokathor: You can get Knowledge (Nobility) via Diplomacy, or Sense Motive and Knowledge (Planes) via Spellcraft or Survival. I'm going to make a proper list later on. Btw, these are only for Knowledge Ranks (sort of like the Str Con thing), they still use Int as a base stat.

As for sorcerers perhaps something in between that one and Iameki's one could work.

Grek: Okay. The character sheet seems fine as far as I can tell. I was confused from the +6 to AC for a bit but realized it's from the defending weapon.

Is an isometric battlemap okay with you guys? Also, what's a good site for storing images that's also compatible with this place?

Okay, so the scale's a little iffy, but you get the idea.

radthemad4 · Post by **radthemad4** » Fri Mar 21, 2014 8:47 pm

As for Time travel, not sure how to resolve it. This campaign is going to be somewhat tongue in cheek, so I'm fine with the idea, but I'd need a decent explanation as to how it works and some limitations so it doesn't result in save scumming and ten thousand copies of yourself running around on the same quest.

ubernoob · Post by **ubernoob** » Fri Mar 21, 2014 8:51 pm

radthemad4 · Post by **radthemad4** » Fri Mar 21, 2014 9:25 pm

Dr Who adventures could usually be easily resolved if he didn't somehow lose access to the Tardis at the beginning of each episode. So I'd recommend something similar. Perhaps it's only usable once a day or week. Or you could run the risk of summoning Clockroaches

Options: Stable Time Loop (Harry Potter, Hitchhiker's Guide) or Flexible Time Stream (Back to the Future), DBZ Time Travel or the mechanics of that story I'm hoping to write someday (Pretty much DBZ Time travel with the addition of a stable time loop option, which might have been there in DBZ as well but wasn't discussed as far as I know).

In case of Stable Time Loops, gentlemen's agreement to avoid visiting places and time periods where there are other (level 3 and above) yous running around. This is because there's no reasonable way I can think of to resolve that unless you guys plan out your advancement and items in advance all the way and your biologically older (for the sake of avoiding tense trouble) selves are extremely cryptic about their pasts, which will be difficult for you to roleplay without actually knowing what happened, after which I'll have to railroad you into entering that situation again as your future selves (I'll have to remember all the dice rolls and everything).

In case of Flexible Time Streams, I could just describe the changes to the setting and you could tell me what your future and/or past selves become/were like. It would need some willing suspension of disbelief as it's ridiculously easy to stop yourself from existing if this is played completely straight. Perhaps there's a God of Time or something ensuring things don't get altered too much. Yeah, I think that's probably a good way. Also, you'd need to be careful not to remove yourselves from the Time Stream, but I'm guessing you'd start fading so you'd know that you need to change something to ensure you continue to exist.

Grek · Post by **Grek** » Fri Mar 21, 2014 9:39 pm

Isometric is swell. Heck, having a battle map at all is a big improvement over most PBP games.

For Time Travel that completely dodges all paradoxes, use these two rules:

1. When you travel to the Past, you end up in an alternate timeline that has no barring on your original timeline. It's basically another plane that just happens to be full of dinosaurs and cave men, or full of anachronistic reproductions of the Mona Lisa.
2. If you go to the future, it's a random possible future and almost certainly not one you'd experience without using time travel to get there.

ubernoob · Post by **ubernoob** » Fri Mar 21, 2014 9:58 pm

Lokathor · Post by **Lokathor** » Fri Mar 21, 2014 10:06 pm

Grek wrote:I'm fine with pokeymons. Even the weird techy ones - they can be exotic forms of constructs.

Yeah, now that I think about it some more they're basically no sillier than Modrons.

As long as they do not just say their name to talk. I'm staying firm on that part. They should talk normally or not at all (though perhaps they can all understand Common even if they can't talk, like the Griffon, for example).

radthemad4 wrote:Lokathor: You can get Knowledge (Nobility) via Diplomacy, or Sense Motive and Knowledge (Planes) via Spellcraft or Survival. I'm going to make a proper list later on. Btw, these are only for Knowledge Ranks (sort of like the Str Con thing), they still use Int as a base stat.

Okay so... As a sorcerer I get (among others) Know(Arcana) as a class skill, and the Infernal Path gives me Diplomacy, Know(Noble), Know(Planes), and Sense Motive on top of the normal sorcerer class skills.

Arcana -> Spellcraft
Noble -> Diplomacy / Sense Motive
Planes -> Spellcraft / Survival

So since I already have Diplomacy and Sense Motive on my list should I pick another bonus class skill instead of Nobility (perhaps Bluff)? and instead of Planes I get Survival as a class skill? Is that how this works? All this is assuming we're even sticking with class skills as a thing.

radthemad4 wrote:Is an isometric battlemap okay with you guys? Also, what's a good site for storing images that's also compatible with this place?

I've seen Roll20.net be used before. It's got a battlemat, but only hexes or orthogonal squares, no isometric squares. The only major downside to it is that, while the GM can view/edit any map at any time, all the players have to be set to be viewing the same map at once, so splitting the party and mapping out both events at the same time isn't really possible (unless you make one huge sized map and draw two sub-areas on it at once or something).

radthemad4 wrote:As for Time travel, not sure how to resolve it.

Don't. Just don't do it. Don't actually touch mechanical support for time travel with a 100ft pole. Just say "oh yeah you two went on a wacky time adventure, or several of them, that was cool, you can write out what you did but the only mechanical change is that now you get your free minor item you can pick out." The rest is fluff.

As to the fluff explanation, I'd just pick up Plane Shift (as a 5th level spell preferably? it's silly that wizards can't plane travel until well after they can lesser planar bind even though clerics get it at 5th level), then it'd just be a thing you could do with plane shifting to alternate time rate planes (already canonical in the planar rules) and alternate material planes (via the shadow plane, also already canonical) and such like that.

Even if time travel could be used in some actual mechanical way instead of as a background fluff (which, again, shouldn't be the case), then the best way to avoid abuse is the Dr Who rule of "never ever cross into your own timeline, ever [unless it's a super-special end of season adventure where the GM has supported it and the other "yous" are NPCs that just look like you and you all forget at the end]. Otherwise time demons come and rip up the universe and everyone dies (no save)."

EDIT: Question: I was also unclear on the final starting equipment stuff. Red Rob said 8kgp OR 2 minor items, but 8kgp can usually buy more than 2 of the cheaper minor magic items... so what's the deal there?

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Sat Mar 22, 2014 1:24 am

So I'm working on Tek (Lord Meow is a fun concept, but perhaps the kind of fun concept better suited to writing about than playing in an actual game).

So, so far, I've got:
(Tome) Vampire Tengu War Mage2/Vampiric Paragon 1
Str 16 Dex 18 Con 12 Int 18 Wis 10 Cha 20
Skills: Not there yet
Feats: Arcane Bore, Flare of Magic
Items
Floating Parasol of Shadows (Shadows as the lsr quality, just a parasol that floats above him as if set on a Floating Disk he maintains above his head, or held by Mage Hand, as a flavour thing)
Staff of the Tireless Warmage
-11 charges/day
-Magic Missile (0ch)
-Detect Magic (0ch)
-Fireball (2ch)

It really seems like staves and wands are more like extra spell slots for specific spells than spell holders, under Red Rob's system, so my interpretation is that I'm actually casting the spells that come from my staff, meaning they benefit from Flare of Magic. Practically, all this really means is that I can fire 2 1d6+1 magic missiles as a standard action at will, or cast a fireball that also cloaks the are in shadow, or double fireball an area, or something, three times per day, with one fireball left, and a single remainder charge which allows me to keep throwing up my staff cantrips.

Also, since Tek is a vampire, can we say that Create Food can create synthetic blood or something? And that Purify Food/Drink can return old or coagulated blood to fresh blood?
Edit: another question--can I choose Positive Energy as the energy type for a Dragonscale Shirt to protect me from?

ubernoob · Post by **ubernoob** » Sat Mar 22, 2014 2:14 am

Lokathor · Post by **Lokathor** » Sat Mar 22, 2014 3:01 am

First: I think it's not entirely cool that the feats scale with highest spell slot, they should probably just scale with caster level, because otherwise it bones bards/assassins/etc. for no useful reason. That's not a knock on those feats specifically that's a knock on their entire idea of how a [Spellcasting] feat would scale. That said, I upvote both those feats, sure.

Second: I'm really not clear on this Staff stuff, could you break that down some more? Where are you getting those charges used values from? Also, the section says you get 15 charges, -2 for each additional spell, so shouldn't that be 15-6=9?

Last: I'm not sure feats should apply to item use like that. It's already shooting a few fireballs a day and unlimited magic missiles. Which isn't so good as a class feature, but it seems pretty good when compared to other minor items. Or maybe it'll seem more sane after the staff explanation. But I don't think that a feat that involved 3/day Extend Spell would be usable on a potion you drink, so it seems like Empower Spell on a staff you're using shouldn't go together.

Create Food / Purify Food applying to blood for vampies: up vote.

Counter Edit:

Prak_Anima wrote:Edit: another question--can I choose Positive Energy as the energy type for a Dragonscale Shirt to protect me from?

Nope, it's not an energy type. The "Energy Types" are Fire, Cold, Acid, Electric, and Sonic. None of the other stuff. Also, you'd probably have to pay more than normal for a Sonic resistant dragon thing, since they're so rare and all (but probably exist). <Insert "gotta go fast" sonic joke here.>

You could get a magic thing that protects against it probably, but it'd count as a magic property you'd need to use a slot on, not just the background bonus on a mundane item.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Sat Mar 22, 2014 3:10 am

Ah, true on the fireball.

As i pointed out to uber over Facebook, and to defend my at will cantrips, bows can have more riders, can be multi fired (if someone wanted to take rapid fire, or dual wield crossbows), can be enchanted

ubernoob · Post by **ubernoob** » Sat Mar 22, 2014 3:14 am

Avoraciopoctules · Post by **Avoraciopoctules** » Sat Mar 22, 2014 3:31 am

radthemad4 wrote:Is an isometric battlemap okay with you guys? Also, what's a good site for storing images that's also compatible with this place?

Okay, so the scale's a little iffy, but you get the idea.

I'm not sure I'd call it a good site, but Photobucket has worked fine for me in previous games I ran on TGD. Isometric battlemaps are cool, but I'd rather not have to draw out my move route square by square every time my monk decides to go punch a dude.

EDIT: yeah, if my Fire Mage can't throw fireballs yet but the same-level wizard dude with a minor staff can shoot a bunch per day, I'm annoyed.