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Drunken Review: Shadowrun 5
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hyzmarca
Prince


Joined: 14 Mar 2011
Posts: 3445

PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

FrankTrollman wrote:
The obscurantist faction was pretty much out of control since before 5th edition was a thing. The reductionists wanted possession and inhabitation traditionsto be the same. There's honestly no reason why voodoo zombies and insect spirits have to use different mechanics. We have separate possession and inhabitation rules because the obscurantists threw a tantrum.

Now that they control pretty much everything, it doesn't really surprise that they are covering themselves in poop and demanding complex new mechanics for character types that are thematically interchangeable with already extant magical groups.

-Frank


There are good reasons for the two to be different. Namely that Inhabitation kills the host and Possession doesn't. That is to say, if you're possessed then it's always possible for someone to kick the spirit out of your body and you'll be good as new, if possibly horribly traumatized. If you're inhabited, the best case scenario for you is that you fully merge with the spirit and you both cease to exist as individual entities, while the most likely scenario is that you're consumed by it and nothing remains of you but a shell. That's a good enough reason to model them differently.

Especially since they want the Inhabitation traditions to be crazy guys who kidnap and murder homeless people over a period of weeks or months, and the Possession traditions to be playable and useful in combat time without the risk of starting Scientology or some other perpetual growth scheme that will inevitably lead to the apocalypse.


Last edited by hyzmarca on Thu Nov 23, 2017 9:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
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souran
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Joined: 05 Aug 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 2:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Yeah that's bullshit. How often are the differences going to be relevant? If it's less than once a session the game would be better with fewer rules to remember. If the only difference is inhabitation is fatal and possession is not then that can be all the rules difference the game needs.
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hyzmarca
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 8:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

souran wrote:
Yeah that's bullshit. How often are the differences going to be relevant? If it's less than once a session the game would be better with fewer rules to remember. If the only difference is inhabitation is fatal and possession is not then that can be all the rules difference the game needs.


Inhabitation as a spirit power is grandfathered in from 1E Insect Spirits. In order to function, it must be able to produce insect spirits that behave about like insects spirits that behave like insect spirits. And insect spirits have 4 editions and many novels of baggage behind them that you can't just get rid of. Particularly since those novels didn't suck.

This is a problem that a lot of RPGs have. If the new rules invalidate your old metaplot, then you've fucked up. You might not have fucked up at making rules that work, but you have fucked up at making rules that accurately model your setting.

And making possession and inhabitation different powers with different rules is a hell of a lot less complicated than making them the same thing, but with 50 different exceptions only for insect spirits. The entire reason the Inhabitation power exists in the first place was to codify Insect Spirits in a non-exception-based manner.
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FrankTrollman
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Joined: 07 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Quote:
Inhabitation as a spirit power is grandfathered in from 1E Insect Spirits. In order to function, it must be able to produce insect spirits that behave about like insects spirits that behave like insect spirits.


Sure.

But in previous editions, Houngans were known for doing two things: getting themselves temporarily possessed by Loa spirits and making Voodoo Zombies. With the SR4 Summoning/Binding divide, you can in fact do both of those things if you Summon temporary spirits that have the ability to possess prepared vessels (you always count as one) and binding makes a possession into a permanent merge.

Combining Possession and Inhabitation in that way more closely matches the way Voodoo summoning works in Awakenings and also has less unique mechanics. The Obscurantists insisted on throwing Voodoo Zombies out altogether as a thing anyone would ever consider doing in order to make there be more distinct kinds of conjuring.

-Frank
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Longes
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Joined: 04 Nov 2013
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I've read some of the fluff in Forbidden Arcana. The Horrors are not forgotten. Apparently the current canon is that mana voids in Aztlan are vacuuming mana to help the Horrors. Because clearly the Horrors and Aztlan being EVIL are the plot that needs to keep going.

Also Harlequin seems to be growing a neckbeard.
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> The Laughing Man


Last edited by Longes on Fri Nov 24, 2017 8:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Longes
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

A book came out today. A book that allows you to make an insect spirit runner.
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Stahlseele
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Joined: 14 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 9:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Same deal as with shapeshifters and HMHVV. wait for it to turn its back. pump it full of its allergen and then set it on fire.
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FrankTrollman
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Joined: 07 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Longes wrote:
A book came out today. A book that allows you to make an insect spirit runner.


Bizarrely, I don't really have a problem with that. Of all the spirit types, Good-Merge Insect Spirits are the closest to being a normal playable character. They are dual-natured, look like humans, and have access to normal senses and tool use.

When the thought of making playable spirits first came up, these were my suggestion as the first ones to go to, which of course gave everybody the vapors. But it is of course historically true that every attempt to make playable free spirits in every other context has been a complete failure - not managing to make something remotely playable and also failing to capture even basic qualities that spirits have.

-Frank
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Longes
Prince


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

What is strange is that instead of making rules for playable free spirits and saying that you can only play inhabitation spirits they specifically doubled down on it being a playable insect free spirit and have weird spiels about Mantis and shit.

And as usual, Dark Terrors (the new 'plot' book) disappoints me by going into alien world-ending menaces instead of just doing Man vs Society thing cyberpunk does best. But such is the fault of Shadowrun.

In other news - NeoNET has fallen because it got blamed for the dragon_ghost-AI nanovirus CFD thing that was taking over the world. NeoNET's place on the corporate court has been taken by Spinrad. Said CFD plot has also been finished because no one gave a shit about yet another zombie plague and because Boston: Lockdown was a massive failure of an MMO.
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