Which is the least bad published D&D setting?

[nockermensch]

The Lady works to that capacity just as well when she's a legend, with maybe some circumstantial corroborating evidence, as when she's an actual person.

Also a quasi-deity wizard LoP would work just as well for that too.

edit:

Figured I'd do a tag search for Lady of Pain on tumblr to see if anything interesting popped up.

I found this:

WANK

I'd have punched that DM square in the dick.

While I'd not go as far as punching somebody, this certainly calls for a change of MC. I've started campaigns in the past for stuff like this.

[Almaz]

The funny thing is that "prying into the Lady's affairs" is probably the biggest waste of time. She's a boring plot device that floats around all day. Occasionally she mazes someone or pushes a dabus around.

[silva]

The funny thing is that "prying into the Lady's affairs" is probably the biggest waste of time. She's a boring plot device that floats around all day. Occasionally she mazes someone or pushes a dabus around.

Sure, sure. Which only reinforces its function as a stylistic device more than anything else. Elminster still could work as a high level patron for the party ( or a connection, support, etc). The Lady dont work for that.

[Cyberzombie]

The funny thing is that "prying into the Lady's affairs" is probably the biggest waste of time. She's a boring plot device that floats around all day. Occasionally she mazes someone or pushes a dabus around.

I was thinking the same thing. Does she actually do anything worth prying into?

[Swok]

I could see people just assuming there's something interesting going on behind the scenes with how people treat her. "Well obviously there has to be something going on otherwise she wouldn't murder people for prying."

[Dean]

I mean, if you're going to build a subservient lifeform, you're going to give them massive boobs, right?

Some people prefer smaller breasts.

Damaged horrible people.

[Koumei]

I mean, if you're going to build a subservient lifeform, you're going to give them massive boobs, right?

Some people prefer smaller breasts.

Damaged horrible people.

I think there is a DFC option (the dual-gunner? Or medic? I forget) for those people.

[shadzar]

I'd have punched that DM square in the dick.

yeah how dare the DM be so nice as to let them keep playing! he told them in various ways without jsut stabbing them in the face to leave her alone. they didn't need to know why to play, and they didnt listen. he should have jsut had them roll uip level ones and stop being fucking children that dont listen. i am curious how many times the NPCs told them to let her be, why wouldnt they take the hint that this is NOT something the DM is going to be doing anything with even IF it is part of the setting or one of the video games they played or whatever.

i would have burnt the sheets and not allowed them to have had copies and be done with them just tell them come back when they want to play not screw around wasting time.

[deaddmwalking]

i would have burnt the sheets and not allowed them to have had copies and be done with them just tell them come back when they want to play not screw around wasting time.

And yet you think the reason you can't find players is because you live in Texas...

[ubernoob]

Shadzar lives in Texas? Fuck. Stop giving us Texans a bad name.

[Mistborn]

And yet you think the reason you can't find players is because you live in Texas...

Honestly I think shadzar is just trolling at this point. his posts have become more and more incoherent and grognardy as time has gone on. Either he's trolling us and feels the need to raise the bar whenever we stop responding or he legit so sort of legit mental disorder and his posts are the raving of a man who is slowly losing his grip on reality. Anyone want to play internet psychologist and guess which one it is?

[Prak]

I'd rather just call this a variant of Poe's Law and be done with it.

[hyzmarca]

I thought that the Lady of Pain was three squirrels in a robe and headress with a ring of illusions and levitation.

[RadiantPhoenix]

I thought that the Lady of Pain was three squirrels in a robe and headress with a ring of illusions and levitation.

Aoskar died long before he "died"?

[fectin]

his posts have become more and more incoherent and grognardy as time has gone on.

That's kind of an urban legend. Go back and read them. The only thing that changed was that he's slightly less good at capitalization.

[virgil]

And yet you think the reason you can't find players is because you live in Texas...

I have enough games that I can actually afford to be picky and have had to turn down several. While I also live in Texas, if he lives in the right part of Texas it can be difficult to even find players.

[infected slut princess]

I want to play in a shadzar game so damn bad.

[fectin]

You could simulate a shadzar game. Build yourself an event deck, full of absolute demands, and periodically turn the next one over. No supporting info, just apply it as best you can and move on.

[shadzar]

You know, going back to the bit on Warforged, I think one of the biggest things about them is that they are not Adam/Pinnochio/Kurumi/Mahoro/Chii. They are actually mass-produced war machines, all built off the same template, as opposed to being unique beings, each the only one of their kind.

Having given this some thought before commenting and looking at it from several angles, I this this nails it. soul or no soul, warforged are just Trade Federation Droids. it is like some of the explanations for 4th, it just doesnt work for the way I see D&D to work, Daleks, Cybermen, Borg, etc were all a creature to begin with that became something else, but was a life-force first. Frankenstien is something special and might be seen more unique, but an army of them might be stretching SoD that is is AN entity, but the soul was created. Bleach conquers this by giving them all unique souls, not stock souls that must adapt over time due to experiences "organically", because it is false organics. applying a theory of life, to something without it. this happens often in D&D, but the animated rock, is NOT a lifeform, just an animated rock.

how were the souls created, where did they come from? leaving religion out most times to not let this be defined int he game but taking the Tanis approach and let it be a journey for the players themselves to seek value in life, trying to define it too much just ruins the game for me. Thus warforged ruin the game because it violates that ability to choose or do without the definition of what is life. warforged are too gamey like the 4th edition keyword "bloodied". it jsut doesnt translate to real work connotations and expectations that you bring with you to the game as a player.

again, for those that want them or like them, more power to you, but it should be left to optional not forced into the whole because that forces their exact eBerron definition and the exact definition of "life" into the game without letting it be explored throughout the game by players in the way they choose if they want to.

[Prak]

I have no clue what the Eberron answer to that is, as I never read up on it.

I did start writing a story from a "warforged" point of view because I feel that the search for meaning in artificial sapience to be that interesting, and what I basically wound up implying is that the "soul" of the artificial sapient was created from a bit of the creator. Much like a classical homunculus is derived from ichor and the creator's blood, I decided that these artificial sapients had some chance of emerging from the animating artifact with memories of their creation and a name rather than just the designation given by the artifact attendants, and heavily implied that it was linked to the mages who sculpted their bodies cutting, injuring, or otherwise spilling their blood over the constructs in the building process. The basic idea is that the artifact pulls soul-stuff from a plane of life force like D&D's Plane of Positive Energy to create a spirit/mind for the constructs. If there was blood in them from their creator, whether because the creator cut themselves in the building or had tuberculosis, or whatever other reasoin, the soulstuff basically was infused with the life energy of the mage who built the body, and the new soulmind had memories from the mage.

[Darth Rabbitt]

If I play a construct/golem/mechanical person/android/robot/whatever character it's pretty damn big that I don't have to play "fetish anime robot girl." It is also pretty damn big that I don't have to play "mass-produced war machine."

EDIT: On the Lady of Pain vs. Elminster debacle. Even at best the Lady of Pain literally exists as a reminder that "there is always someone better than you who will never interact with you" in a campaign setting where you are very likely to (even encouraged to) interact with powerful angels, demons, and even gods. It is really stupid to slap a personification on a metaphysical force and then say "you cannot interact with it by any means" in a setting where interaction with personifications of metaphysical forces is the entire point of the setting! At worst she is the tool of the worst excesses of Gygaxian DMing.

Elminster is a blatant Mary Sue but he is unable to do most (if not all) of that shit.

[silva]

EDIT: On the Lady of Pain vs. Elminster debacle. Even at best the Lady of Pain literally exists as a reminder that "there is always someone better than you who will never interact with you" in a campaign setting where you are very likely to (even encouraged to) interact with powerful angels, demons, and even gods. It is really stupid to slap a personification on a metaphysical force and then say "you cannot interact with it by any means" in a setting where interaction with personifications of metaphysical forces is the entire point of the setting! At worst she is the tool of the worst excesses of Gygaxian DMing.

But you DO interact with the "metaphysical force" the Lady is supposed to personify all the time - thats called Sigil and its decaying, rusty, rotten nature. Everytime you walk down this overcrowded hive street, face darkened and heavy breathing from the smog, avoiding knights of the post and mad collectors and demons and factions-proselitisers all around you, while dodging sick cranium rats, stinking portal-oozes on ground and vicious razorvines on the crumbling walls, desperate to find the portal out of this mess that was around here just the other day but now vanished... you are already interacting with the "metaphysical force" the Lady is supposed to personify.

Now, you know what "metaphysical force" Elminster is supposed to personify? The GM's dick.

[Darth Rabbitt]

EDIT: On the Lady of Pain vs. Elminster debacle. Even at best the Lady of Pain literally exists as a reminder that "there is always someone better than you who will never interact with you" in a campaign setting where you are very likely to (even encouraged to) interact with powerful angels, demons, and even gods. It is really stupid to slap a personification on a metaphysical force and then say "you cannot interact with it by any means" in a setting where interaction with personifications of metaphysical forces is the entire point of the setting! At worst she is the tool of the worst excesses of Gygaxian DMing.

But you DO interact with the "metaphysical force" the Lady is supposed to personify all the time - thats called Sigil and its decaying, rusty, rotten nature. Everytime you walk down this overcrowded hive street, face darkened and heavy breathing from the smog, avoiding knights of the post and collectors and demons and factions-proselitisers all around you, while dodging sick cranium rats, stinking portal-oozes on ground and vicious razorvines on the crumbling walls, desperate to find the portal out of this mess that was around here just the other day but now vanished... you are already interacting with the "metaphysical force" the Lady of Pain is supposed to personify.

Then the Lady is unnecessary, and should just be the equivalent of Sigil's coat-of-arms, not an actual omnipotent NPC that explodes people it doesn't like. Because if you make some being the face of something, people are going to want to talk to that face. And with the Lady you can't. Sigil can just have some weird planar trait that prevents gods and demon armies and whatever else from getting in. Or there could be some agreement among the planar powers to not just march in and try to take it over (and perhaps there are beings trying to change that, which would make for some decent adventure hooks.)

[silva]

Then the Lady is unnecessary

I think this would make sense in most other D&D settings, but not in Planescape. Remember its as a child of the "Style over Substance" era headed by World of Darkness. Thus, the Lady important function as a stylistic device.

[Cyberzombie]

Now, you know what "metaphysical force" Elminster is supposed to personify? The GM's dick.

More like Greenwood's dick.

Elminster is much the face of Forgotten Realms, similar to how the Lady of Pain is the symbol for Sigil. The only thing is that unlike the Lady, Elminster isn't omnipotent. Instead he basically relies on the backing of his girlfriend, Mystra, the goddess of magic, to make him one of those NPCs that's never going to die.

The problem is, that issue isn't unique to Elminster. The setting just isn't willing to let you permanently take out anyone remotely important. It's MMO-syndrome. Manshoon has an army of clones so if you ever kill him, his next clone activates and it's business as usual. Szass Tam is a lich, so naturally, has some impossible to locate Phylactery. I suspect most of the people here have tried killing Drizz't in Baldur's Gate 2, and know what happens afterwards. That's what FR is all about. Maintaining the status quo. Even when you do achieve something, the world is set up in such a way where it rapidly undoes it.

And the world kind of realizes it too, given that the majority of the NPCs have given up on world domination plots and have instead just decided to try to monopolize trade or whatever. Why the red wizards care about being magic item merchants, I have no idea. I guess it's to give them shit to do when they realize they can't actually conquer anyone despite being a group of epic level badasses.