Here's a Paizo thread about trap option in Pathfinder.
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2pvkj&page= ... Pathfinder
SKR jumps in to defend his design choices:
(Is this some kind of jab at flask rogues??)Sean K Reynolds Designer, RPG Superstar Judge wrote:I want my water-balloon-throwing fighter to be able to deal the same damage as a longbow-shooting fighter. Why does Pathfinder have trap options for some ranged characters?
Ah, so it's about realism.Sean K Reynolds Designer, RPG Superstar Judge wrote:Replace "water-balloon-throwing" with any of the following
axe-throwing
blowgun-firing
dagger-throwing
dart-throwing
javelin-throwing
sling-using
spear-throwing
and the complaint is no less ridiculous.
Some options are worse than others because the game actually tries to model that some options in life are worse than others. And by "worse" I mean "does less damage per round."
Sean K Reynolds Designer, RPG Superstar Judge wrote:
Drachasor wrote:
With regards to the crossbowman, I don't think that's the full story of what is going on. In the long, long ago of 3.0 design, I'm sure that's what was going on. Then I imagine someone said "hey, we should give a bone to people who like crossbows", so Rapid Shot was made as a kind of hack on existing rules.
I don't see how Rapid Shot is a "bone" to crossbow users, as it works for all ranged weapons.
Nicos wrote:
In life I do not se how a crossbow is worst than a bow in general terms.
It is for the same reason it is in the game: because you can't fire it as often as you can a bow.
Nicos wrote:
But the complaint goes beyond that. it is not that a xbow is weaker that a bow is that a crossboman that take two feat tax is still weaker than an archer. I think that is against the whole idea of having feats in the first place.
And the dagger fighter can take two extra feats and still deal less damage than a greatsword fighter. Because daggers can't deal as much damage as greatswords. There's a reason why soldiers used swords instead of daggers as their primary weapon.
Sean K Reynolds Designer, RPG Superstar Judge wrote: Guy arguing with SKR: This is a bad example. A TWF dagger user will eventually do pretty decent damage when full attacks, More than the Greatsowrd user I would say*(Again, once he have the feats).
TWF dagger wielder can only compete with the greatsword damage if he takes several feats. Thus, my comparison is of a one-dagger-fighter vs. one-greatsword-fighter.
Guy arguing with SKR: Well, to nitpick a bit, swords actually weren't that common among soldiers. Historically spears and their kin were used a lot more often by armies.
Spears were more common in war because they cost less to make than a sword, a point which is irrelevant to adventurers after level 1.
guy arguing with SKR: It seems bad form to trash talk people with legitimate pathfinder complaints.
I don't consider "real life weapon X can't be fired as often as real life weapon Y, and I don't like that the game models reality" is a legitimate complaint.
And that's how SKR defends the realism in Pathfinder.Sean K Reynolds Designer, RPG Superstar Judge wrote: Tholomyes wrote:
Always nice to see the Paizo staff is so responsive to the concerns and complaints of their customers. /sarcasm
I'm taking the time to read the boards and see what people are saying. Would you be better served by everyone ignoring this thread and not responding to complaints at all? I am here listening to you. I just disagree with your premise, or that "crossbows should be as good as longbows" is a legitimate complaint.
proftobe wrote:
I agree It silly that weapons are THAT gimped just because designers decided that 1 weapon was better than another.
The designers didn't decide that, reality decided that.
Game stats for dogs are more powerful than game stats for cats. Why? Because in real life dogs are more dangerous than housecats. Is this "gimping" the "I have a guard cat" character compared to the "I have a guard dog" character? No, because you know that dogs are more dangerous than cats and should have better stats, even if that means the "I have a guard cat" character concept ends up weaker than the dog equivalent.
At some level, the game has to model reality, otherwise you have no idea what your characters can and cannot do. Can I jump cross that 1-foot hole? I don't know. Does a dagger weigh more than a longsword? I don't know. How tall is a human? I don't know. Can I see a door that's 5 feet away? We have the in-game answers to these questions because we know the answers in reality. If you abandon the idea that the (nonmagical aspects of the) game has to be based partially in reality, then you're playing something like TOON where it doesn't have to match reality at all. But you're not playing TOON, you're playing a game that's supposed to be a reasonable simulation of a pseudo-medieval fantasy world where swords are sharp, dwarves are shorter than humans, and falling damage can kill you.
You accept that a dagger deals 1d4 compared to a greatsword that deals 2d6... even though that "hurts dagger builds."
A light crossbow is an easier weapon to learn how to use than a longbow (so easy that most classes get proficiency in it for free). It costs less than a longbow (35 gp vs. 75 gp). You can fire a light crossbow while prone, but you can't do so with a longbow. You don't apply your Strength penalty to your light crossbow damage, but you do to your longbow damage. You can fire a light crossbow one-handed, but there's no way you can do that with a longbow.
The drawback to these advantages is it requires a move action to reload a light crossbow. In real life, can someone fire a light crossbow as fast as a person of equivalent skill fires a longbow? No. We're modeling reality with these rules... just as saying "a crossbow deals piercing damage" is modeling reality.
Does that increased reload time negatively affect the character concept of the "crossbow master" at higher levels? In that he has to take ONE extra feat to get the same rate of fire as the "longbow master," yes. Does that mean the crossbow master is "gimped," as you put it? Hardly.
Should we throw out the realistic concept that "a crossbow takes longer to reload than a longbow" so the "crossbow master" character concept doesn't have to spend an extra feat to keep up with the "longbow master"? I do not think so.