Red_Rob wrote:So, Kailasa is now under siege in our capital. This looks like the end, however I have a stash of around 100 gems that I never found a use for.
During the early stages of the Last Kailasan War Fomoria voluntarily left my cap circle and asked for nothing in return. I'd like to return their earlier kindness, however giving them all my gems might be seen as game ruining kingmaking, which I wouldn't want be accused of.
What would people see as an acceptable tribute that wouldn't give Fomoria an unfair advantage? Half?
Formoria already has a province lead because of your shenanigans. If you want to blatantly throw the game further in their favor then by all means give them more gems.
I've won games because of gem inheritance, but I've had to work at those. As in engineering favorable alliances for them over two dozen turns.
Your reasons for giving Formoria gems at the moment is so incredibly shallow to the point it's bordering on outright kingmaking.
Last edited by Zinegata on Sun Jan 26, 2014 2:46 am, edited 2 times in total.
Zinegata wrote:Formoria already has a province lead because of your shenanigans.
Really? I find that pretty hard to believe.
Until I discovered Frank I was expanding North and South. Franks expansion party was heading South and the second one ran into my invasion force. Fomoria came at me from the East. I hadn't even planned expanding that way for a while because there was a Throne province blocking me. Frank couldn't expand that way because I was in his way. It is actually Arco that gobbled up the majority of the provinces I was expanding into. Fomoria hasn't really gained anything from my implosion that I can see other than the Throne province in my cap circle. And Throne provinces on borders are always pretty precarious.
In other games I've played I was able to secure a larger than average expansion area simply due to the geography - I blocked off the expansion route of a few neighbours using mountains and lakes and hoovered up the ones inbetween at my leisure.
If Fomoria has a province lead it could be because of any number of things. But sure, blame everything bad that happens to you in this game on me losing an early war.
Red rob wrote:Fomoria hasn't really gained anything from my implosion that I can see other than the Throne province in my cap circle.
Also the Throne Province in my capital circle, you stupid fuck. You didn't just implode, you forced me to implode too. Fomoria was North and East of us, and because of your shenanigans are much larger than they would have been.
You jumped me before I had all the provinces in my own capital ring, whereupon I stopped expanding because I knew that I needed to direct all my resources into hurting you. Which means that even now, I don't own all the provinces in my capital ring and I'm not going to.
Okay, people who are dogpiling me, one of the people attacking me right now is Formoria, and they're the group that is most likely to conquer my capital, second fort, and thrones. Actually, they already took one of my thrones. So I would advise you guys to stop attacking me and start attacking Formoria.
DSMatticus wrote:It's not just that everything you say is stupid, but that they are Gordian knots of stupid that leave me completely bewildered as to where to even begin. After hearing you speak Alexander the Great would stab you and triumphantly declare the puzzle solved.
Zinegata wrote:Formoria already has a province lead because of your shenanigans.
Really? I find that pretty hard to believe.
.
Ulm does not lie. Formoria has the province count lead, and leads in a few other areas.
And I suspect we have the most complete intelligence folder out of all the players. As in I pretty much know everyone's province count, a ballpark of their income due to the kinds of provinces they have, and who they border.
Really, I should start selling this information for gold and profit; but there's part of me that's getting seriously resigned to just accepting vassal state status to Formoria if you're this oblivious to the overall board state.
Last edited by Zinegata on Mon Jan 27, 2014 2:59 am, edited 3 times in total.
I want to go on the record as saying that when I stumbled into Frank's cap circle, I did offer to vacate peaceably. And indeed, if he gives me some notice to evac my researchers, I'm actually still willing to vacate peaceably. He told me I could keep them, but until we actually go to war, I consider myself merely a guest there.
I don't contend that being given those provinces back will put Tien Chi in a position to win the game. Just that I'm actually a very reasonable neighbor.
Red_Rob wrote:
I mean, I'm pretty sure the Mayans had a prophecy about what would happen if Frank and PL ever agreed on something. PL will argue with Frank that the sky is blue or grass is green, so when they both separately piss on your idea that is definitely something to think about.
For information purposes, did you rush someone early in the game in the second one as well, or did you stay out of early wars?
The games I lost in Dom3 were all in early wars, and the games I got closer to winning were ones where I got to sit out for longer...and Dom4 makes early war less profitable...I'm wondering if there is a direct correlation "longer you don't fight someone" and "odds of winning". K won the first game by not being at war with anyone, didn't he?
I won the last game by conquering indies while everyone else was fighting each other. This gave me the Thrones to win.
The fact that I could expend resources to make an invasion force capable of underwater fighting, but bad at land fighting, is because I was not at war with anyone and could have a large chunk of my resources tied up in a long-term investment.
It helped that I had a badass SC goddess that would have eaten any invasion force and took Throne provinces easily.
For a less complicated example of war vs. peace advancement, imagine the difference in two empires where one converts gems into magic items for war and the other uses those same gems to summon casters with non-national magic. Who do you think has a stronger empire after 20 turns? Is it the guy with 25% more provinces, or is it the guy with 10 more high-end mages who can search his whole empire with magic he doesn't get from national mages (and he has ten more high-end mages doing research and available with new battle magic.)
Last edited by K on Fri Jan 31, 2014 9:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.
On the other hand, stealing someone's capital is pretty valuable if you can pull it off. Also, stealing provinces with found magical sites is handy. And if you've got a strong early game but not much of a late-game, getting rid of someone who has the opposite is worthwhile. But yeah, empirically Frank seems to be correct that the new fort defenses make an early rush non-viable without siege bonuses.
DSMatticus wrote:It's not just that everything you say is stupid, but that they are Gordian knots of stupid that leave me completely bewildered as to where to even begin. After hearing you speak Alexander the Great would stab you and triumphantly declare the puzzle solved.
Ulm and Lanka would like to jointly announce that we are withdrawing our NAP with Formoria on this turn, turn 27, and that per the NAP-3 agreement any hostilities between our nations can begin on Turn 30.
And yes, Formoria has been entirely reasonable. But at the moment you're the threat to world peace and must be destroyed.
Last edited by Zinegata on Sat Feb 01, 2014 4:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
Zinegata wrote:The turn seems to have blown up and went stale on all of us. How do you guys want to proceed?
Personally I prefer a rollback and resubmit.
Did not look at the turn yet.
But according the the Staling data page, nobody stalled.
edit:
Oh, looked into my mail:
Hi. On trying to host Clusterfuck just now, Dominions crashed. This is not a LlamaServer issue, but rather Dominions itself crashed with a "Nagot gick fel" error.
These errors are normally caused by a (generally inexplicable) problem with one of the players' 2h files. Therefore the LlamaServer moved all your 2h files away before hosting again. This is why you will receive a new turn file in which you've staled.
There are two options from here. Either you can treat the stale turn as a random event and carry on with the game, or you can roll back the turn and try to host again. If you try the latter your game admin will have to do the rollback via the admin options on the LlamaServer website, and you will all have to do your turns again. Note that in this case it is _really important_ that you actually do redo your turn, rather than just sending in the same one again (which people sometimes seem to do because they don't believe me). If you just send in the same file, hosting will simply fail again.
I hope you manage to get the game back on course, whichever option you go for.
--llamabeast-------------------------------------
Problems or questions? E-mail llamabeast@llamaserver.net.
I'm for carrying on. So we dont get the danger of an bugged out game, because of one player not deleting his files.
Last edited by Korwin on Mon Feb 10, 2014 1:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I went AI a good long time ago when nearly all of my provinces were conquered, my second fort was under seige, and my entire army retreated into enemy territory.
DSMatticus wrote:It's not just that everything you say is stupid, but that they are Gordian knots of stupid that leave me completely bewildered as to where to even begin. After hearing you speak Alexander the Great would stab you and triumphantly declare the puzzle solved.
.
