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DSMatticus
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Post by DSMatticus »

tussock wrote:I think there's interesting discussions to be had about theories, including the core tenants of religions, even ones that most people don't understand and get wrong, even when they get it wrong in the name of that theory.
You are not having a discussion about buddhist tenants. You are redefining buddhism to exclude a bunch of actual buddhist sects (some a thousand plus years old), and then layering some of your own bullshit on top of the remainder to create tussock-approved buddhism. Then when other people try to tell you things about buddhism, you tell them no, that's not real buddhism, because it doesn't have that tussock-approved stamp.

Alternative idea: you admit you have no interest in talking about actual buddhism as buddhists have believed and practiced it over the religion's history and want only to talk about your weird and very specific bastardization thereof. Then, no one will be confused about why when they try to talk buddhism with you the words just go right past you, and will realize you are pretty much useless on the topic.
tussock wrote:it's capitalised in English because it's named after a person or place, not out of any sense of respect, dufus
My capitalization of religious terms is "whatever I feel like at the moment," though I generally try to avoid capitalizing them as adjectives except in technical writing because it's hideous. Though now I'm just not going to capitalize any of it because it seems pleasantly contrarian.
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Post by Emerald »

tussock wrote:I think there's interesting discussions to be had about theories, including the core tenants of religions, even ones that most people don't understand and get wrong,
Speaking of things most people get wrong, the term you and DSM are looking for is tenets (principles or beliefs), not tenants (people who occupy rented property).

Pet peeve, sorry. Carry on.
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Post by Maj »

Thank you, Emerald. :maj:
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Post by DSMatticus »

I blame that one on him. It rubbed off on me without me noticing. :tongue:
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Post by tussock »

Tenets. Tenets. Tenets. Tenets. Tenets. Tenets. Tenets. Tenets. Tenets. Tenets. Tenets.

Well, that's ten of them. It kept grating when I wrote it, like it was wrong, and there it is. It's possibly a thing with the nzld accent. Because a N before a T is pretty hard to hear around these parts. Mostly varies by intonation.




@Kaelik, dude, there's about ten buildings around here were people did the church thing long before I was born, and one of them is not falling down with neglect because all of about three people go there more than a couple times a year. You're gunna have to be less cryptic with me, like not at all.


@DSMatticus, you've decided for me what it was I was talking about, and requested that I include in every post things you claim I am talking about. Maybe me not talking about them is just me not talking about them, not through lack of awareness, but a persistent lack of finding it interesting. But you've stuck with that, even after I repeatedly disagreed with your premises there. So no, not playing that game.
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Post by Kaelik »

tussock wrote:@Kaelik, dude, there's about ten buildings around here were people did the church thing long before I was born, and one of them is not falling down with neglect because all of about three people go there more than a couple times a year. You're gunna have to be less cryptic with me, like not at all.
Nope. Joke is too funny to ruin. Suffice it to say, if you don't know jack nor shit about a religion, maybe you should stop talking about it.
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Post by ...You Lost Me »

The Book of What You Have When You're Hired
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Post by Dean »

Image
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Post by TiaC »

Yeah, but it's not pronounced that way.
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Post by DSMatticus »

Less popularly known as the Book of God Wrecks Your Shit To Win A Bet.
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Post by Ancient History »

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Post by name_here »

Joke ruination within spoiler:
The Bible contains the Book of Job. Capsule summary: There's this guy named Job who is faithful and has thus been granted a lot of sweet stuff, so one day satan (may or may not be the Satan Christians generally refer to) comes up to YHWH and says, "That guy sure worships you, but I think that's only because you give him all this stuff. Bet you I can get him to yell at you by taking away his stuff." and YHWH says, "You're on" and lets satan burn down Job's house, murder almost his entire family and every single one of his servants/slaves, and give him horrible diseases. He winds up losing the bet and Job gets his stuff replaced, although it should be noted that his family and staff don't get resurrected, he just has more kids.

The moral of the story is that you shouldn't complain about horrible things happening to you for no reason. Job explicitly wasn't getting punished for doing wrong, it was just to see how much shit he would put up with.
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Post by RobbyPants »

name_here wrote:satan (may or may not be the Satan Christians generally refer to)
He most likely isn't. The ancient Hebrew for that story reads "the satan", which basically means the adversary or the accuser. Given his title and role in the story, it's entirely possible he's working for YHWH in some capacity.

Satan, as a single character got beefed up significantly throughout history as time went on. His basic progression is "the adversary" in Job ->someone who gets David to do something he wasn't supposed to in the later OT -> a stumbling block to Christianity according to Paul -> The Deceiver who is capable of all sorts of stuff in the Gospels.
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Post by Maxus »

Keep in mind that there have certainly been rewrites/additions of the earlier works.

And one of the biggest influences of our idea of Satan is from Paradise Lost. Seriously.
He jumps like a damned dragoon, and charges into battle fighting rather insane monsters with little more than his bare hands and rather nasty spell effects conjured up solely through knowledge and the local plantlife. He unerringly knows where his goal lies, he breathes underwater and is untroubled by space travel, seems to have no limits to his actual endurance and favors killing his enemies by driving both boots square into their skull. His agility is unmatched, and his strength legendary, able to fling about a turtle shell big enough to contain a man with enough force to barrel down a near endless path of unfortunates.

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Post by JigokuBosatsu »

We need a better Satan in Buddhism, too. He's all "Hey, nerd, look at my daughters' hot boobs!" (double take) "Girls! Put some fucking clothes on!"
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JigokuBosatsu wrote:so a regular glass armonica?
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Post by Omegonthesane »

JigokuBosatsu wrote:We need a better Satan in Buddhism, too. He's all "Hey, nerd, look at my daughters' hot boobs!" (double take) "Girls! Put some fucking clothes on!"
I maintain that a giant semi-anthroporphic penis riding a golden chariot is the best devil image ever.

Though, why does Mara want girls to put clothes on?
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Post by TiaC »

JigokuBosatsu wrote:Though, why does Mara want girls to put clothes on?
That's not evil to you?
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Post by Prak »

Omegonthesane wrote:
JigokuBosatsu wrote:We need a better Satan in Buddhism, too. He's all "Hey, nerd, look at my daughters' hot boobs!" (double take) "Girls! Put some fucking clothes on!"
I maintain that a giant semi-anthroporphic penis riding a golden chariot is the best devil image ever.
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Post by JigokuBosatsu »

Not girls in general, his daughters. Even evil dads are supposed to keep them off the pole.
Omegonthesane wrote:a glass armonica which causes a target city to have horrific nightmares that prevent sleep
JigokuBosatsu wrote:so a regular glass armonica?
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Post by RobbyPants »

I debated putting this in the quotes 2015 thread, but this might be a better fit:


"I didn't realize that there were actually people out there that don't believe Jesus Christ rose from the dead!!
If this is true, what do they believe??"


"In your world view, why is circular reasoning wrong?"
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Post by icyshadowlord »

I think the best part about the modern day Satan is that it's been mixed with Lucifer, who might be from a totally different myth altogether.

And yeah, Mara is the best version of a devil out there simply by virtue of being so goddamned ridiculous yet still taken semi-seriously in some places.
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Post by Occluded Sun »

In some traditions, Mara is actually something of a heroic figure - not 'evil' so much as being the guy whose job it is to maintain unenlightenment for most sentient beings.

A comparison can be made to South Park's Satan (no, really), who is actually a reasonably nice person, he's just in charge of Hell.
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Post by Stahlseele »

if the bad people get punished in hell, does that not make satan the good guy?
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Post by tussock »

Christian myth of good and evil is taken from the Babylonian, where there's a creator and an anti-creator. So things existing at all is the team we're supposed to be on, and crazy people like the ones over the way are maybe on the other team and you can't be too careful.

Every single job that got lumped onto the other team's guy, eventually known as Satan after folding in a bunch of other regional myths, be it caring for the insane, speaking out against injustice, or punishing the wicked, he's still the wrong team. If Satan got the job of doing everything good and God did everything bad (which, you know, basically) that just doesn't matter.

The root of the word "good" just meant "one of our team". "Evil" by contrast was used for everything you'd kick someone out of your team for; illness, injury, bad luck, deformities, breaking up people's marriages, or talking shit about god (or the church).

So god is good because god is on our team, or we are on his: stuff existing seems nice is the thing. Satan is evil because he got kicked off the team, which was what that used to mean. The words have since changed to mean different things, when Christianity decided to be about morals (because science was a little slow on that and everything else got taken), and religion is simply not getting updated now we have better morality.

Because they don't, that's a thing for them, being behind the times is like a point of pride, arguing about shit that was settled centuries ago by pointing at a book from before the evidence came in is what they do for fun. Religion: a really stupid old book.
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Post by Kaelik »

tussock wrote:Christian myth of good and evil is taken from the Babylonian, where there's a creator and an anti-creator. So things existing at all is the team we're supposed to be on, and crazy people like the ones over the way are maybe on the other team and you can't be too careful.

Every single job that got lumped onto the other team's guy, eventually known as Satan after folding in a bunch of other regional myths, be it caring for the insane, speaking out against injustice, or punishing the wicked, he's still the wrong team. If Satan got the job of doing everything good and God did everything bad (which, you know, basically) that just doesn't matter.

The root of the word "good" just meant "one of our team". "Evil" by contrast was used for everything you'd kick someone out of your team for; illness, injury, bad luck, deformities, breaking up people's marriages, or talking shit about god (or the church).

So god is good because god is on our team, or we are on his: stuff existing seems nice is the thing. Satan is evil because he got kicked off the team, which was what that used to mean. The words have since changed to mean different things, when Christianity decided to be about morals (because science was a little slow on that and everything else got taken), and religion is simply not getting updated now we have better morality.

Because they don't, that's a thing for them, being behind the times is like a point of pride, arguing about shit that was settled centuries ago by pointing at a book from before the evidence came in is what they do for fun. Religion: a really stupid old book.
Hey remember when you opined on Jewish and Christian theology without even knowing the contents of the Bible and you were completely wrong just like whenever you open your stupid mouth and start talking about something you know nothing about?

You are doing that again. Please stop.
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The U.S. isn't a democracy and if you think it is, you are a rube.

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