[Comics Wank]What It Would Take To Get Me To Buy Marvel/DC

sabs · Post by **sabs** » Thu May 30, 2013 1:12 pm

I will give that to Frank. I don't even LIKE DC that much, and I find Green Arrow only slightly amusing, and even I know who Roy Harper is.

But I'd rather read about the X men, or Avengers any day of the week over Superman or the Flash. And Green Arrow is perfectly fine as long as you ignore that he's in a world where Wonder Woman and Superman have adventures.

Stahlseele · Post by **Stahlseele** » Thu May 30, 2013 1:24 pm

What do you have against the Flash? O.o
Supes and WW cant be everywhere, and sicking them on non super powered or weaker super powered enemies would be a bit boring wouldn't it?

sabs · Post by **sabs** » Thu May 30, 2013 1:33 pm

uh,
Supes can totally be everywhere. He's supes. He flies bout as fast as Flash runs. And yes, it would be boring, which is why I hate DC because most of their stories are boring. The one thing they do well, is interpersonal stuff, and well backstoried minor characters and 3rd string heroes.

The Flash? Oh happy day.. I run really fast.. I solve every problem by running really fast, or punching you really fast.

Yawn.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Thu May 30, 2013 3:39 pm

I'm going to disagree about Flash. I mean, his powers aren't just about running or punching really fast. He can also vibrate really fast and pass through solid objects and travel through dimensions and time. Also, he's a police crime lab guy, so he can do a fair amount of detective work.

But the big proof that you can tell fun stories with The Flash is by actually doing it. Which I think Justice League demonstrated was pretty easy to do.

Epic.

-Username17

Whipstitch · Post by **Whipstitch** » Thu May 30, 2013 4:55 pm

I love the Great Brain Robbery so much.

sabs · Post by **sabs** » Thu May 30, 2013 5:09 pm

And, after seeing the new X-Men all women title announcement I am reminded of one thing I hate about Marvel.

Alternate Reality Blue Shift Red Phase I'm my own grandpa Summers family tree.

Rachel Fuck You Grey

Stahlseele · Post by **Stahlseele** » Thu May 30, 2013 5:46 pm

it's been postulated that one would need to invent a kind of 4 dimensional paper for the summers family tree . .

Lago PARANOIA · Post by **Lago PARANOIA** » Thu May 30, 2013 7:52 pm

I rather miss Punisher: MAX or at least Garth Ennis's run on the whole story.

Unfortunately, unlike a hero like Batman or Superman, the Punisher is A.) really strongly tied to a certain timeframe (the Vietnam War) and B.) is a VAH par-excellence, so they can't hook him up to weird age-regression phlebtonium in order to make a now-70 year old man's crimefighting adventures credible. So it's probably for the best that he's more-or-less finished, unless people want to do something like do a retro 80's crime fiction story. His final sendoff against Kingpin was good enough that I'd really have no problem with the series people leaving the character 'dead'.

That said, I do want Marvel to create another 'ultraviolent unpowered vigilante who mass murders terrible people with planning, wits, and cruelty'. Foolkiller (not the more famous one) showed some promise and for its two arcs had a lot better variety than a typical Punisher story. Unfortunately, I think that Foolkiller either needs some better characterization of the primary character and/or the secondary cast. Alternatively, it could use more action sequences.

Hell, if I was pitching an idea to Marvel, it'd be having a Vigilante series. Basically, the comic follows people at various points in history and watch preternaturally trained average Joes embark on journeys of ridiculous ultraviolence against people they hate. So sort of like if Django Unchained, Punisher, Inglorious Bastards, Samurai X, etc. got their miniseries bounded together by a common art and writing staff.

Ancient History · Post by **Ancient History** » Thu May 30, 2013 8:05 pm

Lago PARANOIA wrote: B.) is a VAH par-excellence, so they can't hook him up to weird age-regression phlebtonium in order to make a now-70 year old man's crimefighting adventures credible.

You saw FrankenCastle, right?

Lago PARANOIA · Post by **Lago PARANOIA** » Thu May 30, 2013 8:31 pm

I've heard of Frankencastle. I've seen panels. It might be an interesting comic in its own right, but Frankencastle is not a substitute for The Punisher.

It's like when Yusuke got resurrected. At that point on, Yuyu Hakusho was no longer a wacky slice-of-life comedy about a spirit helping out his friends in the living world. The show might have been (and definitely was) better than the initial set of episodes, but if that's the kind of thing you're in the mood for then the continuing adventures of YYH isn't going to interest you.

Stahlseele · Post by **Stahlseele** » Thu May 30, 2013 9:06 pm

Frankencastle was not as funny as you would imagine sadly . .
It was pretty mediocre in my eyes at least <.<

Ancient History · Post by **Ancient History** » Thu May 30, 2013 9:29 pm

I think using the Bloodstone to "heal" Frank back to normal was the best end they could come up with for it.

Stahlseele · Post by **Stahlseele** » Thu May 30, 2013 9:36 pm

probably better that way, yeah.
Frank . . just does not work if he's got supernatural powers somehow <.<
The coolest thing about this was that he could handle a minigun without problem like that ^^

Lago PARANOIA · Post by **Lago PARANOIA** » Thu May 30, 2013 9:43 pm

Even if they could come up with increasingly fantastical ways for Frank Castle to cheat the aging process, so what? The concept of the Punisher is very broad and can fuel stories for decades. Frank Castle is increasingly becoming an anachronism. In order for him not to become an out-of-place cyst on Marvel continuity, they need to do one of these things:

[*] Completely excise the whole Unpowered Muggle aesthetics of his character.
[*] Change the backstory of his character to a more modern (like the Soviet-Afghanistan War; either side) period or make it time-period neutral (his family was shot down by generic criminals).
[*] Exile him from Marvel continuity altogether. Punisher stories are henceforth period pieces. They can either be their own self-contained stories like it was Scarface or GTA:VC or some shit, or other characters could tell his story in flashbacks Conan: the Comic style.

And really, at this point I think it would be better to just come up with a new ultraviolent vigilante character altogether. Frank Castle isn't exactly a very complex character. The best characters in his stories are of those the adversaries, victims, and occasional allies. The character was basically an accident anyway.

virgil · Post by **virgil** » Thu May 30, 2013 9:48 pm

Lago PARANOIA wrote:Change the backstory of his character to a more modern (like the Soviet-Afghanistan War; either side) period or make it time-period neutral (his family was shot down by generic criminals).

This seems the most likely and simplest. They can keep him as a veteran and just not specify the war, because it's not like we haven't had soldiers stationed somewhere dangerous for freakin' ever.

Lago PARANOIA · Post by **Lago PARANOIA** » Thu May 30, 2013 10:34 pm

virgil wrote:They can keep him as a veteran and just not specify the war, because it's not like we haven't had soldiers stationed somewhere dangerous for freakin' ever.

While I think that it's fine if Frank Castle's background involved him being a period-agnostic police officer or a period-agnostic secret agent, I think that's a terrible mistake to make the character a period-agnostic war veteran/PMC. A veteran character from Full Metal Jacket isn't going to feel the same as the one from Mother Courage, Catch-22, or even Generation Kill.

You either need to make up the war and its mythology from scratch (which is a ton of work and still nowhere near as evocative as going 'this guy was a WW2 veteran' like they do for Captain America) or forgo having his previous experience as a soldier affect how he's handling his current problems -- which sucks, because that was literally the only thing to his character besides smoldering with generic rage.

Lago PARANOIA · Post by **Lago PARANOIA** » Fri May 31, 2013 4:53 am

Speaking of which, has Spider-Man been reverted to his original self again?

THAT might get me to buy a Spider-Man comic again. Rather than this 40-year old manchild who's the denialist security blanket of some grognard fanboy promoted to editorial staff.

Chamomile · Post by **Chamomile** » Fri May 31, 2013 5:44 am

You could make Punisher a Dread Pirate Roberts thing, where the original Punisher passes his mantle on down to another despondent veteran with similar but distinct personality, and then when he gets worn out pass him on to another.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Fri May 31, 2013 6:04 am

Lago PARANOIA wrote:Speaking of which, has Spider-Man been reverted to his original self again?

THAT might get me to buy a Spider-Man comic again. Rather than this 40-year old manchild who's the denialist security blanket of some grognard fanboy promoted to editorial staff.

Right now, Spiderman is still Doctor Octopus possessing Peter Parker's body. Superior Spider Man #9 is just the two of them having a brain fight over the body, which Doc Ock mostly wins, resetting the status quo to Superior Spider Man #1.

Stahlseele wrote:it's been postulated that one would need to invent a kind of 4 dimensional paper for the summers family tree . .

Nah. You can do it with three dimensions. Lines have to cross other lines and you need multiple levels for different people who occupy the same place in the family tree but from otherwise different timelines and dimensions. But using the vertical for generations, the horizontal for siblings and marriages, and the depth for alternate reality bullshit, you can do it.

This is incomplete, but gives a pretty good idea:

-Username17

Stahlseele · Post by **Stahlseele** » Fri May 31, 2013 6:55 am

Chamomile wrote:You could make Punisher a Dread Pirate Roberts thing, where the original Punisher passes his mantle on down to another despondent veteran with similar but distinct personality, and then when he gets worn out pass him on to another.

This i could see going over pretty well actually O.o

@Frank
it was a joke mostly.
but if you include things like the 3rd (or 4th i lost count) summers brother and the fact that in one version cable was an older version of Wolverine and with timetravel and interdimensional shenanigans and reincarnations and try to map THAT . . it gets very over complicated ^^

Lago PARANOIA · Post by **Lago PARANOIA** » Fri May 31, 2013 8:08 am

FrankTrollman wrote:Right now, Spiderman is still Doctor Octopus possessing Peter Parker's body. Superior Spider Man #9 is just the two of them having a brain fight over the body, which Doc Ock mostly wins, resetting the status quo to Superior Spider Man #1.

Err, what?

Koumei · Post by **Koumei** » Fri May 31, 2013 8:21 am

So, the Lego Batman game is a lot of fun. It's also loyal to the source material, assuming you only acknowledge the Adam West/Burt Ward series. But while playing it, in one of the villain missions we were just chilling with Mr. Freeze, and throwing puns around. This made me wonder:

Is he like that in the comics/cartoons, or was that just the one movie?

The friend I asked has no idea, as she only follows Marvel.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Fri May 31, 2013 8:43 am

Koumei wrote:So, the Lego Batman game is a lot of fun. It's also loyal to the source material, assuming you only acknowledge the Adam West/Burt Ward series. But while playing it, in one of the villain missions we were just chilling with Mr. Freeze, and throwing puns around. This made me wonder:

Is he like that in the comics/cartoons, or was that just the one movie?

Mr. Freeze does throw ice puns around. The Adam West period Mr. Freeze is basically just ice puns. He steals diamonds because they are "ice", that kind of shit. The Animated Series Mr. Freeze is a lot more hard core.

Mr. Freeze wrote:This is how I shall always remember you: surrounded by winter, forever young, forever beautiful. Rest well, my love. The monster who took you from me will soon learn that revenge is a dish... best served COLD.

Still has the ice puns thrown around, but it's not played for cheap laughs. It's equal parts tragic and scary. Victor Fries is a monster, but a sympathetic one who is equal parts pitiable and dangerous.

Mr. Freeze wrote:It would move me to tears... If I still had tears to shed.

Lago wrote:Err, what?

You are so going to regret asking that. Peter Parker's body got taken over by the spirit of Doctor Octopus. And now he's a ghost floating around trying to retake control of his body while Doc Ock runs around as a gestalt entity having both Doc Ock's and Peter Parker's memories. Yes, this means that Peter Parker now remembers dating Aunt May.

And they restarted the numbering, where Amazing Spider Man #701 was instead Superior Spider Man #1.

Superior Spider Man #9 takes place basically entirely in cliche mental combat, which resolves pretty much nothing and is best thought of as a filler comic.

-Username17

Lago PARANOIA · Post by **Lago PARANOIA** » Fri May 31, 2013 8:54 am

That is one of the worst covers to anything ever. That artist should be ashamed of her/himself.

Also, that story sounds like it could've been cool as hell if they put some fucking thought into it. But the dialogue in those panels convince me otherwise.

Also, no sex or implied sex until Doc Ock is no longer inhabiting Peter Parker's body. Because that's just creepy. I mean, I shouldn't have to point such a thing out, but with three-thousand people funding an Exalted kickstarter apparently I need to.

Stahlseele · Post by **Stahlseele** » Fri May 31, 2013 9:33 am

Mr.Freeze is the best villain in all the animated series.