[Comics Wank]What It Would Take To Get Me To Buy Marvel/DC

[Maxus]

He got Beat up by Deadpool.
While Deadpool was bound.

It's all meta, baby.

Deadpool doesn't need hands or powers. He just needs to think it and anything will happen. I fear this will become even more so after the coming game.

Speaking of which, I may break down and pre-order that. And do a report on it.

Mind you, I'm the poster-child of "winning ugly" on God-of-War-type action games. I don't die that often, but I don't look very good while I'm at it.

[Stahlseele]

Holy Shitballs but RedSkullOnslought and EmptyHeadXavier creep me right the fuck out for some reason x.x

[Lago PARANOIA]

Why does the Mad Scientist need to have someone bankrolling his or her projects at all? Why can't they just, you know, use their Mad Science to steal the money? They just end up squirreling some away so that they can get on their feet again in a reasonable time frame. Or hell, they could just flat-out sell some of their Mad Science to unscrupulous parties and keep the good stuff to themselves. Or double hell, they could do some shit like sell pop psychology books or trade stocks in their off time. Mad Science is their hobby, not their livelihood.

If The Joker and Two Face and the Mad Hatter can fund their ridiculous projects despite having no real marketable abilities besides 'infamous and is really scary', there's no reason why a Mad Scientist can't scare up some lucre.

[sabs]

The Joker is a mad scientist though. Or at least, he's a mad inventor. Depending on which versions you read, he's good at creating giant elaborate practical jokes of murder.

[Koumei]

The Joker is awesome in the Lego game. You stand at the top of the ladder in the asylum, and people climb up it one at a time so you can shock them with a handshake, gaining studs.

Also, him + Harlie in game. She can't use her mallet attack on him, presumably because she loves him. He can still shock her, because he's a dick. It's pretty funny. Her stray bullets can still hit him though, because accidents happen.

[Cynic]

I think the point is that most of Batman's villains are already nuts (Joker, riddler, scarface, szazz, harley, etc..) and adding another nutjob is kinda overdoing it in my opinion.

[Prak]

Why does the Mad Scientist need to have someone bankrolling his or her projects at all? Why can't they just, you know, use their Mad Science to steal the money? They just end up squirreling some away so that they can get on their feet again in a reasonable time frame. Or hell, they could just flat-out sell some of their Mad Science to unscrupulous parties and keep the good stuff to themselves. Or double hell, they could do some shit like sell pop psychology books or trade stocks in their off time. Mad Science is their hobby, not their livelihood.

If The Joker and Two Face and the Mad Hatter can fund their ridiculous projects despite having no real marketable abilities besides 'infamous and is really scary', there's no reason why a Mad Scientist can't scare up some lucre.

Even better, take it another direction and just have a mad scientist who just putts around, occasionally creates something sellable and pays the bills that way, but other times his latest experiment gets out of control and threatens the city. And people put up with it because Batman doesn't tell anyone that these giant robots and grey goo outbreaks are the accidents of the otherwise well liked Dr. Senility.

A less dickish Prof. Farnsworth from Futurama, I guess, except that when he realizes a lab accident occurred he just phones up Batman and says "Hello, Batman, *sigh* another one got loose."

[RobbyPants]

I don't think this got answered, so I'll re-ask it since I'm so curious:

Aunt May was dying. Spidey tried everything, but even Dr. Strange and Maybe-Jesus told him it was just the old lady's time to die. Then Mephisto (the Devil) and offered to save her life, but if that happened he would take Peter Parker's marriage. And MJ and Peter agreed, and one of the side-effects is that their unborn kid was never conceived.

I've read at least two references to the "maybe Jesus" character. Who is this?

[Ancient History]

I answered it. Couple of posts below where you asked it. This is the link, again.

[Cynic]

For a weird start to your Comics morning, Gerard Way released some images of a pitch he made for a Vertigo imprint Batman graphic novel.

I'm not really sure if I actually like this or not. His previous work, The Umbrella Academy, was actually not as great as advertised. In one way, I think it's a little cool that we see a much darker (if weirdly emo) Batman. I mean this doesn't have to return to '80s grimdark Batman but it could probably be treated at least as a one-shot comic that doesn't really interact direct with the current Batman mythos.

I also wouldn't mind seeing more Vertigo comics seeing that DC seems to slowly going through the process of phasing it out.

[RobbyPants]

I answered it. Couple of posts below where you asked it. This is the link, again.

Thanks. Sorry I missed that.

[Stahlseele]

OK, Deadpool Killustrated, where he kills off the Classics so he himself can die and rest in peace is an interesting concept . .

[Lago PARANOIA]

Was Identity Crisis a trend or a herald of a trend?

I mean, the whole Grimdark Retcon was happening long before that comic, but it seemed that they started becoming a lot more common afterwards.

[Ancient History]

Identity Crisis (DC) was a catastrofuck that derailed several characters' personalities and backstories and locked a couple of women in refrigerators, with no redeeming value except that is sold a metric fuck-ton of comics.

Identity Crisis (Spider-Man) was another blatant shill to sell comics, but I like the idea of Spider-Man going temporarily insane and having five different supranyms, even if three out of the four concepts were ridiculously silly.

[Stahlseele]

wasn't that Antman? O.o

[Ancient History]

Hank Pym has had many different aliases (Giant Man, Ant Man, Wasp), but he wasn't trying to run four at the same time.

[Lago PARANOIA]

Identity Crisis (DC) was a catastrofuck that derailed several characters' personalities and backstories and locked a couple of women in refrigerators, with no redeeming value except that is sold a metric fuck-ton of comics.

Sounds like someone has a top 5 to 10 list burning inside them!

[Ancient History]

I gotta think about that. I mean, my tastes have changed a bit over the years, and I've grown way disillusioned with Marvel and DC but...yeah, I guess I could.

I guess we should break this down a bit. With long-runners, you're going to have a lot of different creative teams, a lot of "filler" issues that don't amount to much, and you're going to have a lot of absolutely fantastic single issues. So I'll focused primarily on miniseries or single concise storylines of 1-12 issues.

1. The Winter Men (1-5, + Special)
Writer: Brett Lewis
Artist: John Paul Leon

A private cop in Moscow, an ex-Spetznatz and former leader of a cadre of Russian rocket-men that were part of a Cold War era project to develop superhuman assets - and the means to combat them. Now the Cold War is over, it's a new Russia, but it appears some of the Winter assets are coming back into play...

If there was a gritty HBO crime drama about Superman: Red Son, this is what it would read like. The writing, the art, the pacing - even if the series got scrunched from eight issues into six-ish - are all pitch perfect. The dialogue in particular is acclaimed.

2. The Dark Knight Returns (4 issues)
Writer/Artist: Frank Miller

The first Elseworlds story. An older Batman - less invincible, more determined. Before he became a cartoon, this is what Frank Miller did that earned all the props. Love it or hate it, there are just so many notes that hit right in this series...Batman on a horse. Alfred's death. Darling. The callbacks to Edgar Allan Poe and Zorro. These are cramped pages, for the most part, lots of panels and talking heads, but then the full-pages just explode onto the scene...these books are an education in layout all by themselves.

3. Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser (4 issues)
Original Stories: Fritz Leiber
Adaptation: Howard Chaykin
Art: Mike Mignola

What a team for this material. How pitch perfect. I could probably do a top five list on either of these guys alone, but this book would be on both lists. There's really not a single false note here - Mignola's gothic style and personal touches, reminiscent of his later Hellboy work, just perfectly complements the script, and Chaykin captures the essence of Leiber's work as few people can.

4. Hellblazer (Storyline: "Dangerous Habits", 41-46)
Writer: Garth Ennis
Artist: William Simpson

John Constantine is dying. Not from a curse or any magical doom, but from lung cancer. And there's not a damn thing he can do about it, though he strives.

At least the most well-known and iconic Hellblazer arc, by it's most well-known writer, and while a more mature reader might better appreciate the run of Mike Carey and artist Leonardo Manco, "Dangerous Habits" is the best self-contained storyline in the Hellblazer mythos. Not the most polished, but those last two issues especially are just the be-all and end-all.

5. Thanos Quest/The Infinity Guantlet (2 issues/6 issues)
Writer: Jim Starlin
Artists: Ron Lim and George Pérez

I was a Jim Starlin fanboy for a long time. Still am, in many ways. Thanos Quest to me is the single best set-up to a major crossover ever: you have in Thanos a true anti-hero, a bastard that you end up rooting for throughout the series because he's taking on these long odds...and wins, as often by wit and foresight as by brute force. The Infinity Gauntlet for its part remains my favorite cross-over ever...just something about the comic acting on a bigger scale, the gorgeous George Perez linework, the little character details that slip through. The sequels I think suffered from the success of The Infinity Gauntlet. but what a success.

6. The Authority (Storyline: "The Circle", 1-4)
Writer: Warren Ellis
Artist: Bryan Hitch

If you have to read one Warren Ellis comic, it should be Nextwave. If you read two, it should be Nextwave and Transmetropolitan (followed by Planetary and Lazarus Churchyard). But from a technical standpoint, Ellis' greatest achievement was his twelve-issue run on The Authority as impeccably illustrated by Bryan Hitch. You can almost feel J. J. Abrams taking notes on how each and every panel is laid out.

"The Circle" was Ellis' first real attempt at a compressed, cinematic storyline - and it is gorgeous. Ellis had some success earlier in revamping or re-presenting existing characters like Hellstorm, Dr. Doom, Doctor Strange, but this is really his chance to shine by taking his characters from the incredibly doomed Stormwatch series and...well, it reads like the big-budget movie for the low-budget television series you love. It's presented fresh as to a new audience, and the new characters like the Midnighter establish themselves so easily its a thing of glory to behold.

7. American Century (Storyline: "Scars & Stripes", 1-4)
Writers: Howard Chaykin & David Tischman
Artists: Marc Laming, Luke Ross, Lan Medina

It's the 1950s, and ex-AF World War II veteran Harry Block is Jewish, undersexed and tired of the crap he has to deal with at home. So when the Korean War rolls around Harry says "fuckit" and disappears to South America. Little did he know...

I probably could have used American Flagg! (1-12), but I do so love this series. In a racist world that wants to piss on him for existing, Harry Block doesn't care if the pussy he chases after is black or white, Christian or Jewish, dyke or straight as long as she's had her shots. He may be a bit of a bastard, but compared to the rest of the people in the comic he comes across as an angel - and that's how I like a lot of my protagonists.

8. Empowered (7 books + 4 specials)
Writer/Artist: Adam Warren

It looks like a bondage cheescake book, is too manga-ish for most superhero fans and too superhero-ish for most manga fans, but what a brilliant ongoing story. Absolutely top notch work and We Want More of It! Even if Adam Warren's brain is stuck in some weird 90's dialect. Don't care. Love it.

It is, I guess, another "different vantage" on the superhero life kind of book - which a lot of these are, now that I pause to think of it - it's an intelligent take, and a funny take, and sometimes a sad take, but it's great insight without always hitting you over the head with it.

9. King City (1-12)
Writer/Artist: Brandon Graham

King City, the metropolis of spies; an alternate New York with a history of magic, aliens, super science, and puns. Joe has returned after two years training to be a Cat Master; now with he cat Earthling he's a hot commodity, caught in a war between the Owls and the three-faced Demon King of the Eye Focus...but mainly he still hasn't gotten over his old boyfriend.

Brandon Graham got his start, near as I can tell, doing graffiti; moved into indie trades, did a fair bit of cartoon porn for the money, and is still in love with the city. His art is detailed like Sergio Argones', his settings and characters tend to breathe. King City is his current opus, though most of his stuff is terrific and Multiple Warheadz is doing well from the look of it.

10. Godzilla: Half-Century War (5 issues)
Writer/Artist: James Stokoe

An episodic look at Godzilla - the original Big G - through the eyes of a soldier that chases and fights him across every eiga for fifty years. A masterful blend of original and existing material.

I could have done Orc Stain or Won Ton Soup, but there's something about this series that draws me strongly. It's an homage that you don't see much of these days, at least not carried off with the skill and pizzazz that Stokoe infuses into it. Like Graham, his art tends to be hyperdetailed, but moreso - and he does so excel at monsters.

Ugh, I ran out of room. There's still a lot of great stuff in comics. Kurt Busiek's Astro City, particularly the "Tarnished Angel" storyline. Hellboy, especially back when Mignola was also doing the artwork. Eric Powell's The Goon which probably deserves to bump one of the others off the list. Bloodhound, the best DC comic of recent memory which just sank away to nothing. Atomic Robo. What If (especially the first series). The Doom That Came to Gotham. Phonogram. Walter Simonson on The Mighty Thor ("They sing no songs in Hel..."). Steve Ditko on Dr. Strange. The first arc of Fables, before it lost its way. Every single adapation of "The Tower of the Elephant" for Conan.

There is good stuff, but ongoing series...swallows it. Too much mediocrity, too much rushed and rough stuff. Even Transmetropolitan had filler issues, for Ghost's sake. All the best, most defining parts of B.P.R.D. arguably date back to when Mignola was drawing the series, and I love Arcudi - but I love his The Marquis more. There's nothing wrong with superheroes, but it's nice to look at them when they're on the proper spotlight, as with Top Ten or Astro City, than when they're just soap operas-cum-professional wrestling, where New York state is apparently the cosmic axis of the universe based on superpowered beings per capita.

[angelfromanotherpin]

...is too manga-ish for most superhero fans and too superhero-ish for most manga fans...

I have never understood this. The most popular manga franchises are superhero stories.

[hyzmarca]

...is too manga-ish for most superhero fans and too superhero-ish for most manga fans...

I have never understood this. The most popular manga franchises are superhero stories.

There is a big difference in style and conventions between the two, though.

[Koumei]

Wait, he did one even better than Transmet? I must check out Nextwave, it seems.

...is too manga-ish for most superhero fans and too superhero-ish for most manga fans...

I have never understood this. The most popular manga franchises are superhero stories.

That depends. "Superhero stories" is often taken to mean more than just "a story about a hero (someone who rights wrongs and triumphs over evil) who has powers that are supernatural". There are automatic connotations of, well, "DC and Marvel".

I mean, most Magical Girl things are technically superhero, but put it this way: Sailor Moon fans are not invited to Superhero Comic discussions, the comicDC/Marvel conventions put up with anime cosplay about as much as the other way round (barely concealing their contempt), and if someone says they're running Mutants and Masterminds for a proper superheroes game and you rock up with a character that is too much like Sailor Neptune and not enough like Wonder Woman, they'll tell you to fuck off.

[Maxus]

It's like the enmity between Digimon and the true faith of Pokemon.

They're just too much alike, and hate each other for the differences.

Anyways. Comics.

I still regard Preacher as the best comic experience I've ever had.

Now, for an actual book...Cathrynne Valente did something called the Orphan's Tales, a two-parter.

It is fucking insane on a level with Perdido Street Station, but has a lot better plot and characters. Although it has less filth in it, too.

[angelfromanotherpin]

And again, I don't understand. Sailor Neptune is a fetish lesbian with powers derived from Roman mythology. That is indistinguishable from a character I would expect to see in a Wonder Woman comic.

Is it just fans being tribalist assholes? That, I could get.

[Lago PARANOIA]

And again, I don't understand. Sailor Neptune is a fetish lesbian with powers derived from Roman mythology. That is indistinguishable from a character I would expect to see in a Wonder Woman comic.

You know, it's commentary like this that keeps me coming back to these boards.

[Koumei]

And again, I don't understand. Sailor Neptune is a fetish lesbian with powers derived from Roman mythology.

Not sure about the fetish bit, but technically her ocean powers are based on the planet Neptune, not the Roman god of the sea. It's actually a little-known fact that the Roman gods are all based on the sailor senshi.

Is it just fans being tribalist assholes? That, I could get.

Basically it's this.