Korgan0 wrote:Yeah, wow, you're in an old, old meta. Basically no-one builds armor or MR to any significant level anymore.
...maybe... but then you are also pre-30, and the primary difference that kicked in for me once you hit that level was that before that basically nobody built any survivability... and after that everyone did. Might just be that is still the case.
You'd also see a lot of talking up of pure AD builds, and pure AP builds. But it's mostly wanking. The AD ones actually can work with a VERY supportive and well organized team. But that's seriously high level play there. The pure AP ones... well again, unless there have been sersious changes there are VERY few cases where there are any good pure AP champs at all, AP items were across the board over prices and terrible compared to AD/Tanky and AP champs tended to fill highly redundant roles.
The main defensive item you buy is a Warmog's or a GA, unless you have some kind of pre-existing free health (like Cho'Gath).
Can't recall the components for warmogs, but I'm pretty sure GA was a bit too late game. Early survivability was awesome survivability. I mean... sure buy late survivability
as well.
Also it doesn't give you the kick ass duration reduction thingy. Like the boots. Or those several other items that didnt manage to be as good as the boots they were supposed to make less ubiquitous.
Too many bruisers have innate armour pen (Darius, Xin, J4, etc), and there's always the Big Bad Cleaver.
I thought you said tanky DPS didn't dominate the meta anymore?
But anyway, back in the day anything that penetrated anything had been nerfed to the point that while virtually required to do ANY damage it was basically incapable of keeping pace with the cheap sources of armour and magic resistance. I doubt this has changed, but if it finally has that might actually be interesting. Because it was a SERIOUSLY needed change in the game, since as it was you could sink MORE resources into specializing in nothing but piercing armour/whatever than someone sunk into having armour and doing something else at the same time and STILL fall significantly behind them.
On the other hand, MR is really, really expensive. Spirit Visage is niche, Athene's isn't great, and Merc treads don't really give you that much. Runic Bulwark is a good buy, but it's an aura and also hella expensive.
Pretty sure spirit visage was rewritten every second patch forever so god knows what it does now. But if merc treads still give the BIGGEST debuff duration reduction in the game they really DO give you "that much" and if that is the case they are still hands down the best boots, one of the best early survival items, probably the best early game item and possibly even best hands down value for money item.
The fact that I don't seem to know what those other name drops even are suggest the game just has
even more early MR items than it had before so I'm guessing the problem is probably getting worse rather than better.
Also, LW and Void Staff are basically core on every AD/AP carry, which is a flat 35% reduction right there.
So... basically same old same old. Which was not enough. And which stacked in a way that was sufficiently non-optimal with flat penetration that you basically got one or the other, and never had a guy who could genuinely ignore armour or MR enough to challenge the Tanky DPS meta.
Nowadays, Nashor's Tooth is 20% CDR, AS, and AP. Can't speak to what it was back then. It's basically core on AP Teemo and Kayle, along with a few other niche builds.
Yeah. So the same pile of crap it always was. It's primary problem is it's an early game item. Made of early game components. None of which give good early game stats. Then by late game... it doesn't give you enough to justify late game. And its made of lots of items. None of which include any survivability.
I mean sure Teemo's massive nerfs (seriously, huge, like unprecedentedly huge) to his cooldowns made CDR a lot more attractive... but not THAT much more. Not
nashors tooth more.
I'm guessing Nashors Tooth basically remains the item that is a damn good indicator of a bit of a noob player. Like those boots with the attack speed bonus.
You're right, Teemo isn't a top-tier champion, but he's definitely viable in certain circumstances.
He is/was viable when playing against significantly weaker
players. There are/were basically NO champ match ups in which he is strong, a few in which he was
slightly less weak but basically if Teemo beat anyone in a 1v1 they were seriously doing it wrong. And since his massive mushroom drop rate nerf he brings next to nothing to the team so... yeah...
Blasted wrote:Teemo was OP when the new 3v3 map was released and pretty much every game featured a Teemo.
The introduction of what was it "Twisted Treeline"? was indeed probably Teemo's strongest period. Well. Barring back before his first major remake, he was totally different back then.
That
period did indeed see several major nerfs to Teemo. But it wasn't because he rocked on the 3v3 (though he did, even if most players at the time refused to admit it).
edit: Note however while probably his strongest period during the time I played him he was still regarded as massively UP and seriously que dodged and whinged at at every opportunity. He was basically the go to nerfy joke champion in general
at that time.
Riot explicitly nerfed him at the time because they were reworking Exhuast and Blind effects in an attempt to indirectly buff direct AD champions. They nerfed the crap out of Blinding Dart repeatedly, and then again to "keep it in line" with their changes to exhaust. Which they then rebuffed exhuast... but left blinding dart largely useless.
Around then they also did Teemo's second major remake. Primarily with the excuse of making him "more intuitive and fun" rather than as some sort of counter to his success on TT. This involved massive nerfing to Toxic Dart duration and over all damage. And the changes to mushrooms where he got to store them, but they were, at the time and then several times since, repeatedly nerfed in basically every other way.
That was also when Toxic Dart was nerfed to "not stack" in order to be "more intuitive". As they were removing stacking DoTs at the time. Until they then started adding stacking DoTs again. But not Toxic Shot, which due to the WAY they nerfed it actually had a long standing "bug" where increasing attack speed could infact DROP Teemo's DPS.
Notably
buying the components of Nashors Tooth would drop you into that odd DPS valley at a key point in early game. Multiple people, including me, tried to point this out, Riot EVENTUALLY noticed it. Eventually. And
sort of fixed it. But Teemo remained seriously nerfed in toxic shot damage despite that.
ANYWAY. The major nerfs that put it over the line however and took Teemo from "only idiots play him in competitive games" to "It is no longer even fun to play him in normal queue post 30" were the changes made specifically to nerf
that one competitive player who topped solo ranked with Teemo the supposed "Split Push" problem.
So yeah. Teemo was never to my knowledge specifically nerfed to balance the 3v3 map. And if he was that needs reverting because Riot at one point stated they had basically openly abandoned that map and that they no longer do ANYTHING to try and balance it or for it. The major Teemo nerfs all came with official explanations, which weren't that, and the minor ones are typically undocumented accidents or inconsistent "consistency" nerfs that somehow end up harming pretty much only Teemo when reverted for everything else.
Mind you that doesn't mean they might not have been lying about the reasoning behind nerfs. To be honest
I think they were. I think they specifically wanted to nerf a single specific competitive player. And also I think they want to nerf of all things the already sub par AP Teemo,
specifically because he is strong in low level noob games. AP Teemo's are noob stompers, and that is indeed bad, it's not a good reason to make him unplayable in higher level games, but his nerfs ARE highly consistent with changes specifically to stiff over AP Teemo builds, which aren't used in higher level games, or by that one top level Teemo player. And weren't the reason Riot ever openly
gave for those nerfs.
Also there might have been MORE nerfs and a new 3v3 map I don't know about. Though considering Riot's history with churning out new maps when I played... I doubt that. I mean fuck? Is magma chamber even out? Or has it stayed officially "abandoned".