League Of Losers

[Orion]

I haven't experimented much with Morgana support, but my impressions have been lackluster. It's not that she's bad, exactly, but other supports do the same things better. In particular, I suggest you give Zyra a try. Her free vision counters grabbing supports nearly as well as black shield, her skillshot root goes through minions, and her AoE stun doesn't require her to melee. She shares with Diana the ability to push waves and defend turrets, and has damage skills that scale with character level.

I feel like if anything you might want to exploit the fact that she can hold down a 1v2 so well and pair her with a character who wants to roam, like Twitch or Quinn or something.

[CapnTthePirateG]

I'm known as DictatorHat.

Morgana is weird. Her pool is great if you can get guys to stand in it, but that doesn't happen. She doesn't really have enough damage to burst dudes. The q is very easy to dodge at long range, and people tend to kill you before the stun wears off. The black shield is great though.

She requires a lot of practice to use well and turns into a pretty useful support.

Or you can play LeBlanc support and eat enemy champions while letting your ADC free farm... it's a start.

[Ravengm]

Or you can play LeBlanc support and eat enemy champions while letting your ADC free farm... it's a start.

Have you ever seen a Darius support? Same idea. It's kind of hilarious.

Darius: "YOU'RE GONNA GET ALL THE FARM!"
*murders lane opponents*
Ezreal: "Please don't hurt me. D:"

[Surgo]

Darius might be a somewhat gold-independent champion but he's not that gold-independent. If you want to play bodyguard for the carries (which is basically what he's good for), you need gold to make yourself a tank so you can survive long enough to actually do your damage (which is backloaded, not frontloaded) and use your CC at the appropriate times.

So please, don't play support Darius.

[Pseudo Stupidity]

Capn, that's why Morgana is weird as a mid. She doesn't deal enough damage, or really do ANY damage reliably except the first tick of her ult.

Morgana is great as a support because your Q is purely for peeling (you can't miss diving bruisers) and catching fools in ambushes (you generally won't miss invisible bindings). Her pool is a completely wasted skill as a support unless you're defending turrets or a big AoE comp, and her ult is good because they either focus the support instead of somebody important, split up, or get stunned and take a ton of damage (350 base damage at level 1, better than any damage support, and 650 at level 3, WAY better than any damage support).

Then she has the best damn support skill in the game, the Black Shield. I'd almost say it's the best damn skill in the game because CC immunity is such a powerful catch-all for protection and anti-peel. Want your bruiser to dive with ease? Black Shield. Want your AD to survive an ulting Malphite? Black Shield. Somebody targeted by a naut or vi ult? Black Shield. Teammate wants to channel something? Black Shield.

I'm going to go wank it to Morgana support some more. Zyra does sound legit, I just hate her early game because she doesn't have a level 2 for like 30 seconds (unless she doesn't have a level 1), and everyone loves rushing 2 and murdering/zoning the other team.

[Blasted]

My kill lane support has generally been Leona because CC,
but recently I've been playing Pantheon, which is basically for getting first blood and trying to snowball your adc. The (somewhat) global presence supported by his alt is fun, too.
Not sure I would run it in ranked, though. Even in draft normal it can cause people to dodge.

[Orion]

Morgana does plenty of damage in Mid. Like, crazy buckets of damage. It's just dependent on her ult. Try this: run GhostIgnite. Hit Ghost and black shield, run up the the enemy mid and ult them. Throw down a binding while they're slowed or while they're stunned, then dump the pool and the ignite. That'll kill a lot of people from nearly full.

[...You Lost Me]

That requires a lot of things, like not being low (poked to death), not having their jungle within a quarter of river to you, not having a big wave of minions on your tower, having a clear shot to them, then don't have any real cc of their own to stop you from casting, etc... I mean, it doesn't seem any less viable than morg support, but I don't feel confident about that plan.

Also, if you count morgana as a support (riot does! huehuehue) then she's got the biggest ult damage out of any support.

[Pseudo Stupidity]

Morg support is SO viable (maybe not at the pro level, but at least up to plat).

Just went 0/1/27, carrying as support when every lane but mine lost. It really helped they picked Taric and he can't do anything against the shield. It was over once I got hourglass since their team was all divers (Xin, Diana, Taric, Renekton, and Ezreal).

It helps their fed person was Diana (although she was massively fed, 6 kills pre-20 minutes), who can't do shit in a binding and never bought tenacity.


Pantheon support is really strong with somebody like Draven (jump, spinning axe, and spear is enough to force anybody out of lane) or in a double bruiser comp. The only thing is Panth needs items, so he doesn't go 0 CS support well. He either takes farm or kills or becomes completely useless later.

[Kaelik]

It helps their fed person was Diana (although she was massively fed, 6 kills pre-20 minutes), who can't do shit in a binding and never bought tenacity.

Man, 30 must be a different game. At 20 minutes, if I haven't died at all, I count myself lucky if the enemy team doesn't have a Kayle with 12 kills.

[CapnTthePirateG]

Just bought Cassiopeia so I have a larger pool of mid champions besides "Leblanc...Kha'zix" and a few others I play not that well.

I keep messing up on trades and get killed when the opponent has like 2 health.

Yes, I know it's free week, don't judge me.

[Ravengm]

Darius might be a somewhat gold-independent champion but he's not that gold-independent. If you want to play bodyguard for the carries (which is basically what he's good for), you need gold to make yourself a tank so you can survive long enough to actually do your damage (which is backloaded, not frontloaded) and use your CC at the appropriate times.

So please, don't play support Darius.

I never said it was anything resembling a good idea, and it's not. It was an idea me and four others had one day for a "fuck meta trollcomp".

[Pseudo Stupidity]

Man, 30 must be a different game. At 20 minutes, if I haven't died at all, I count myself lucky if the enemy team doesn't have a Kayle with 12 kills.

People die a lot less frequently as they get better. The moment you hit 30 people will die super early in laning ALL THE TIME (and then keep dying because they build damage and keep trading). Then they learn not to do that and won't go for dumb trades/all-ins. People will still get caught in invades or fail to cheese their opponent/get cheesed and die sometimes, but it's not surprising when first blood isn't for 5 or 10 minutes if everyone knows their matchups and wards properly.

Top laners still die all the time though, because they assume they have the best build or the best cheese and will ALWAYS try to fight early game and then snowball or get stomped off it. What a stupid fucking lane (sorry, top laners).

The game gets a lot more fun when it isn't get fed and win or watch somebody else get fed and lose. Dragon fights and the inevitable bot lane 4v4 fights between roughly even teams are really, really fun.


Cassiopeia is very fun and super strong, and her ult scream is one of the most terrifying sounds in the game if you're on the other team. WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH.

[CapnTthePirateG]

Man, 30 must be a different game. At 20 minutes, if I haven't died at all, I count myself lucky if the enemy team doesn't have a Kayle with 12 kills.

People die a lot less frequently as they get better. The moment you hit 30 people will die super early in laning ALL THE TIME (and then keep dying because they build damage and keep trading). Then they learn not to do that and won't go for dumb trades/all-ins. People will still get caught in invades or fail to cheese their opponent/get cheesed and die sometimes, but it's not surprising when first blood isn't for 5 or 10 minutes if everyone knows their matchups and wards properly.
.

This is the problem with learning with Leblanc. As Leblanc you can totally go all it at low levels and win.

Then you pick up someone else and realize that...yeah, you can't dive in that hardcore.

Le sigh.

[Pseudo Stupidity]

Unless you're Vi, in which case diving in hardcore is all you do. I feel so manly when I play her, even more manly than when I play banana-hammock Pantheon.

[Korgan0]

Okay, I've updated the OP with all the summoner names that I could find, although I might have missed a few.

I honestly see Vi more jungle than top lane, since her early ganks might actually be better than Jarvan's, who I usually use if I want to get some great ganks early. I don't think she has as much potential for wombo combos late game (Jarvan Ult, Ori Ult, MF Ult, etc etc etc), but conversely she's a much better diver with her ult's CC immunity.

I tried out Jayce in an ARAM and owned face despite basically just hitting random keys whenever I felt like it. Since I'd be spamming my abilities so much I figured I'd rush a manamune, but in hindsight Tforce might have been a better choice. Anyone here tried Jayce?

[Pseudo Stupidity]

I can't speak about lane Vi yet, but I do plan on giving her a shot. Played my first ranked game with her in the jungle and had great success, but I think with more items she can become more terrifying to the back line. Should be fine as long as the jungler is a tanky initiator like Nautlius.

Jayce is super powerful in (top or mid) lane and good in poke comps. Aside from that, I really don't find him that strong. This is coming from not playing AS him, but playing against a ton of Jayces. He doesn't have the ability to turn a fight around like other champs and has to build squishy to really be a threat, but has to build tanky to not die in actual fights (in teamfights he's best served by going hammer mode and diving since his range sucks).

Build him with BT, Muramana and Tforce as offensive items. Usually goes something like Tear and BT by the end of laning (start with tear) and build tanky depending on what's going on. His harass is good and safe since he can be ranged and switch to hammer to knock people back when they try to trade.

I haven't seen many Jayces since the mana nerfs that weakened his laning a bit. He has bad mana problems without tear now.

[Surgo]

Tear is an extremely popular first item for Jayce nowadays, has been since the start of S3.

It's usually a trade-off between "buy Tear now" and "buy Brutalizer now" (even though the latter is more expensive). The thing you have to keep in mind about going Tear is that it's only providing mana. You'll do a lot more damage a lot faster if you skip the Tear entirely. But where it really shines is the long-term. If you can abuse your Tear to land a lot of Shock Blasts, you could find yourself in a better position than if you had gone Brutalizer. But you absolutely need to land them! If you don't hit a large percentage, you threw away 700 gold and are now behind your lane opponent.

[Pseudo Stupidity]

I'm halfway up Plat I largely due to the following reasons:

1. I'm a misfit, always ready to roll.

2. It's my business roughing people up as the law.

3. Morgana support.

4. A series of surprisingly competent teams that don't give up.

Really hoping to hit diamond in the next few games because I doubt the streak will hold up. That and I'm fairly certain I'm not actually good at Vi, just that she's an incredibly strong champion who should be getting banned more often. Instakills carries and can reliably initiate from fucking 1300 range if her team is ahead. Bitch be crazy.

[Ravengm]

I love Jayce.

If you're able to micro-manage who you're using his REEL AMURRIKIN BESSBALL knockback on, you can contribute pretty well to tactics in teamfights, but that's your biggest contribution other that Muramana autoattacks. The rest of his kit revolves around mobility and poke.

As for build, you definitely want Tear, provided you can hit empowered Qs, whether on champions or for farming at range. Muramana is a fantastic item for him, and it's super easy to farm up if you mash the R button when travelling. You also want a Brutalizer early if possible.

I've been playing around with a Blade of the Ruined King instead of a Bloodthirster. The extra attack speed isn't ideal in trade for AD, but doing percent-health-based damage is pretty awesome. Plus the active ability is handy.

That said, I'm a main midlaner, so take what I say with a grain of salt. Jayce is usually my go-to if I'm playing top.

[Korgan0]

I haven't been playing much recently with the scourge of finals upon me, but when I have been playing I've often ended up getting my shit kicked in by virtue of the fact that I play a lot of support, mainly (okay always) Sona, and I frequently get stuck against Cait/whoever bot lanes. Since my usual MO is to poke with my Q and Q-passive, against Cait there's basically nothing I can do since she just trades me right back with her obscene range plus her Q. I'm only level 24, so I don't have my full masteries yet, but I should probably go something like 0/7/17 instead of 0/3/12, and maybe pick up some armor reds when I get more rune-pages. In any case, how do I lane against Cait as Sona?

[Orion]

I'd start by reassessing your goals. It sounds like you're setting out to poke down your opponents and keep them on low health, either to send them home, distract and deny farm, or get kills if they hang out for too long. That's a good way to beat bad players and it works well when you have the stronger champion, but in this case you'll have to get more sophisticated. I see three basic strategies available to you: avoiding conflict, outplaying your opponent, or get help. First off, take a look at your carry. Odds are good that your carry has better teamfight utility, or higher dueling potential, or superior damage scaling to Caitlyn. Remember that dominating the lane phase is why people pick Caitlyn, so if the lane is "even" you're effectively winning. If you make sure your Vayne, Varus, Ashe, or Tristana is farming, you're winning even if Caitlyn is farming just as hard. If your carry lacks the ability to go in on Caitlyn, you may want to play incredibly passively. If you just max out your heal and hold the button down, your carry can eat a lot of poke while pursuing last hits, tank minions briefly once she pushes them to the tower, and generally do what they have to do to get their gold. It's not glamorous but it works.

Trading with Caitlyn is difficult but not actually impossible. At the beginning of the game up until Caitlyn goes back to shop, you actually can fight her if you really want to. If you land a Q and a Power Chor at level 1, that's 140 damage. Her base AD is 47; depending on runes and starting items she might be as high as 70. So if she autoattacks you twice, it's actually an even trade. If she hits you with one autoattack and a Q through a minion wave, the damage is also about even plus she pushes her lane and disrupts her lasthit rhythm. She will win if she gets her headshot passive off or lands a direct-hit Q, but if your timing and positioning are both perfect then you'll be fine. Once you get your Heal, consider using the debuff power chord. If you attack with a W-chord, then hit Q, you'll do a little less damage but also take a little less, or a lot less if you messed up. Plus it leaves a debuff on her for four seconds that will be handy if your AD joins the party, and might cause her to miss a last hit. Unfortunately, she will now have traps. If you step on a trap things will go very badly for you, so don't do that. Unfortunately this takes away most of your opportunities to trade, but the point is that trading optimally works fine until she gets her first damage item. This is particuarly worth doing if your lane partner is good at diving in. An Ezreal or Graves can jump in and punish her if she wastes her Q on you. However, you may have a different carry, and her support may be healing her or be too god at disengaging.

If you don't get the advantage right off the bat you really can't do much until you hit level 6. Your carry's ultimate is almost certainly better than hers, and yours is almost certainly better than her support's, so it's suddenly possible to win an all-in fight. She still trades better than you do, so you have to stop thinking like a poker and start thinking like an assassin. Keep your side's health topped up and wait for her to make a misstep which allows you to jump in 100->0 her in one go. This is easy with Ashe, Graves, or Ezreal, but hard with Corki and Vayne.

Also, if you can't win the lane by yourself, stay alive and wait for your jungler.

[Pseudo Stupidity]

One thing worth mentioning about Sona is that her Q does not reveal her if cast from bushes, so you can harass with Q safely as long as you're in a bush they don't have vision of (take a pink with you to counter ward). Good players will make plays against the Sona bush, but if you have a strong early game AD you can cause huge problems for their lane by gaining bush control.

Also, run defensive masteries up to at least Veteran (9 points) on Sona. Ideally you go into the utility tree up to pickpocket and then run defensive until block (-3 damage from autos), but you need to be 30 for that. I'd also suggest running full armor seals and marks as Sona, since you'll still be taking autos and you're very, very squishy.

[Ravengm]

I haven't been playing much recently with the scourge of finals upon me, but when I have been playing I've often ended up getting my shit kicked in by virtue of the fact that I play a lot of support, mainly (okay always) Sona, and I frequently get stuck against Cait/whoever bot lanes. Since my usual MO is to poke with my Q and Q-passive, against Cait there's basically nothing I can do since she just trades me right back with her obscene range plus her Q. I'm only level 24, so I don't have my full masteries yet, but I should probably go something like 0/7/17 instead of 0/3/12, and maybe pick up some armor reds when I get more rune-pages. In any case, how do I lane against Cait as Sona?

A phrase that comes up in my playgroup whenever someone chooses Sona is that you're playing as a purple caster minion. You're squishy as balls in the earlygame. I use a mastery page of 0/13/17 when I play supports I intend to autoattack with for Pickpocket value (though you won't be able to go that deep yet if you're level 24). You definitely want to pick up Block and Veteran's Scars masteries, and start working on armor marks for rune pages.

How you lane is very dependent on who your adc is and how aggressive they are (both the champion and the player). Generally your gameplan is going to be to sit back and provide the passive AD from your Q unless you can safely poke. Against Cait, it's important to see when she's firing the Peacemaker and be able to dodge it. The key thing is to gain bush control, because then you can Q from the bushes without revealing yourself.

Here's my mastery pages if you want to look. My support ones have the "S:" prefix (e.g. "S: Pickpocket").

[Korgan0]

I haven't been playing much recently with the scourge of finals upon me, but when I have been playing I've often ended up getting my shit kicked in by virtue of the fact that I play a lot of support, mainly (okay always) Sona, and I frequently get stuck against Cait/whoever bot lanes. Since my usual MO is to poke with my Q and Q-passive, against Cait there's basically nothing I can do since she just trades me right back with her obscene range plus her Q. I'm only level 24, so I don't have my full masteries yet, but I should probably go something like 0/7/17 instead of 0/3/12, and maybe pick up some armor reds when I get more rune-pages. In any case, how do I lane against Cait as Sona?

A phrase that comes up in my playgroup whenever someone chooses Sona is that you're playing as a purple caster minion. You're squishy as balls in the earlygame. I use a mastery page of 0/13/17 when I play supports I intend to autoattack with for Pickpocket value (though you won't be able to go that deep yet if you're level 24). You definitely want to pick up Block and Veteran's Scars masteries, and start working on armor marks for rune pages.

How you lane is very dependent on who your adc is and how aggressive they are (both the champion and the player). Generally your gameplan is going to be to sit back and provide the passive AD from your Q unless you can safely poke. Against Cait, it's important to see when she's firing the Peacemaker and be able to dodge it. The key thing is to gain bush control, because then you can Q from the bushes without revealing yourself.

Here's my mastery pages if you want to look. My support ones have the "S:" prefix (e.g. "S: Pickpocket").

Thanks, that's really useful. If you don't mind me asking, how come you go 2/7/21 on your tanky jungler mastery page?