2e Monster Manual "Review" Electric Boogaloo

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2e Monster Manual "Review" Electric Boogaloo

Post by Shrapnel »

So, I've said before, I am clueless when it comes to D&D mechanics and drinking. But, I'm sure as hell gonna try to do the best I can, so bear with me.

So, to start:

The cover of the book shows some various monsters in various, monstery poses:
Image.

(I've always like the look in the dragon's face, he looks all grumpy and constipated.)

The back cover has the same picture, just smaller and missing the minotaur and constipated dragon. The back text reads, in bright neon yellow on black:
Back Cover wrote:Need a monster? Look inside, where more than 300 full-color illustrations show what the monsters really look like!

This book contains more than 600 monsters for the AD&D game, including creatures of myth and legend as well as fantastic creations unique to the AD&D game. Inside you'll find more than 20 types of dragons, 9 lycanthropes, 17 giantd, and hundreds of other horrors from aarakocra to zombie.

You'll never run out of foes with the AD&D MONSTEROUS MANUAL(TM) accessory, the most valuable monster reference ever!
Already, we have hilarity: Not only is the declaritive "more than 300 full-color illustrations show what the monsters really look like!" just inherently funny, but the second paragraph gives the blanket term "horrors" to everything in the book. This means, apparently, that things like cats are a great, big "horror".

Then again, I've been told that they can kill commoners...

Oh, and fun fact: Aarakocra is my Xbox 360 gamertag.


Now, let us delve into the book itself...

(I won't go over the staff credits, but I will point out that Tim Beach and Doug Stewart are listed as the illustrators for the Invisible Stalker entry. Oh, TSR, you so wacky.)

The first section is called

How To Use This Book

Which tells us in the first sentence that "this hardcover Monsterous Manual(TM) was created in response to the many request to gather monsters into a single, durable volume which would be convenient to carry". I will say that that is not quite the truth: For the entire, what 15+ years I've had this thing, the spine has been steadily falling apart, and it's also somewhat heavy. So, no, it is not easy to carry nor is it terribly sturdy. First sentence in and already the book is lying to me.

Anywho, it goes on to say that every monster from the MONSTEROUS COMPENDIUM(R) (MC, for short, because I like abbreviations) Volumes 1 adn 2 have been collected, as well as some creature dudes from later volumes. Apparently, each monster has been "revised, edited, and updated", including tweaks to statistics (which I wouldn't understand anyway), the addition of new info on some of the monsters, and that many of the monsters have been "reclassified", which has always struck me as ominous. I think I spelled that wrong, but I dont care too much, cause I"M HIGH!

It also says that some new beasties have been added, and that in cases of conflicting info, the new material (re: THE MONSTEROUS MANUAL(TM)) supercedes it previous shit.

Now, here's some fun: It says that certain entries have been condensed from their MONSTEROUS COMPENDIUM entries, to "make this book as complete as possible without increasing its size or price." They then give the example of the fact that there was a full-paged description of ravens in the MC appendix for... the... Greyhawk setting. Uh-huh*. It then goes on to say that in this book, the entry for ravens has been condensed to a few lines under the "Bird" entry, which is just fun to say. It gives the reason that it gives enough info for ravens to be used in a short encounter, and "it allows a page to be devoted to another advesary." Such as the Leucrotta, or the Mold. Boy oh boy.

It then has a paragraph on how to find a monster. Their brilliant advice?
Flip through the pages or look in the index.
Well, gee, thanks, I had no idea how books worked. Thanks, TSR!


And now, for my first favorite part of the book. I'll just put the whole thing here:
What the Monsterous Manual wrote:All of the monsters described here are typical for their type. DMs should note that unusual variations are encouraged, but they are most effective when they depart from the expected.
What I took from it: Mix up monster behavior so you can throw your players off guard and kill them easier.
What the Monsterous Manual wrote:Likewise, entries describe typical lairs for creatures, from the dungeon complexs they inhabit to the tree houses they build; changing the look of these make a monster encounter unique.
What I took from it: Mix up monster encounters so you can throw your players off guard and kill them easier.

The rest of the section describes what the contents of the book are (monster entries and three small appendices: The first deals with making monsters, the second deals with summoning and includes tables for randomness, and the third is about creating NPC parties); how to deal with using monsters from different settings, such as whether there should be a Giff smackdab in the middle of Dark Sun (it's up the the DM, the DM is God); and then goes on to explain the layout of the book and what it covers.

These are the different parts of a Monster entry:

CLIMATE/TERRAIN: Where the beasty lives

FREQUENCY:The likelihood of encountering the beasty.

ORGANIZATION: The social stuctures that the beasty adopts.

ACTIVITY CYCLE: The time of day the beasty is active.

DIET: What the beasty eats.

INTELLIGENCE: How smart the beastie is

TREASURE: What, if any, goodies and loot the monster carries. The treasure tables, by the way, are not in the Monster Manual. They're buried somewhere in the DM guide.

ALIGNMENT: Is the beasty good, ebil, neutral, chaotic, lawful, and/or any confusing combination of such.

NO. APPEARING: How many of the beasties that will normally appear in an encounter.

ARMOR CLASS: The beasties defence

MOVEMENT: How fast the beasty is

HIT DIE: The beasties health

THAC0: OH GOD NO my head hurts from just looking at the entry. I'm not even gonna try.

NUMBER OF ATTACKS: How many times the beasty can attack. I think.

DAMAGE/ATTACK: How hard the beastie hits.

SPECIAL ATTACK: Indicates the power of a special attack move. The higher this stat, the more powerful a special attack move. It is applied to the following move types: FIRE, WATER, ELECTRIC, GRASS, ICE, PSYCHIC, DRAGON, and DARK.

SPECIAL DEFENSE: Indicates the resistance a Pokemon beasty has against special attacks. The higher this stat, the less damage sustained from a foes special attack.

MAGIC RESISTANCE: The chance that any magic cast at the beasty will fail to affect it.

SIZE: How big the beasty is.

MORALE: The likelyhood of the beasty being a complete pussy or total badass.

XP VALUE: So they're worth XP now?

And then the main body of text is broken up into:

Combat: How the beasty fights.

Habitat/Society: What, if any, culture the beasty has and what it's like.

Ecology: How the beasty fits into, well, the ecology of a given setting, what products or byproducts they produce, and other miscellania.

Then it says that some entries have variations, such as the fact that the xorn entry also includes the xaren, a similar creature.

And then it lists Psionics, and the sub-listings involved with that clusterfuck. However, my head is already pounding from lord knows how much sugar, and Psionics has always made my mind-brain hurt.

What I will say about it, though, is that it says if the DM choses not to use psionics in his campaign, then the powers can be changed to magical equivalents or simply ignored, the latter of which is shit advice.


And that's all for the intro, and already I've got a pounding headache and a sick stomach. I'll start on the monster entries tomorrow, unless I'm catatonic. Not a bad start.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to go puke.




*Wait, what the fuck?! Why do ravens get a full page write up for fucking Greyhawk?! Admittedly, I'm no expert on all the various settings, but I was always under the impression that Greyhawk was the most vanilla D&D setting. I mean, I could understand if it were for the Ravenloft setting, because Ravenloft is "LOL so GOTH" and shit, but fucking GREYHAWK?! I mean, just why?
Last edited by Shrapnel on Wed Aug 27, 2014 1:55 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Post by Whatever »

I vote for options 2 and 3. Review what you want, and take requests. I request: everything Beholder. There should be about a half-dozen entries in that section, if I remember right.
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Post by Shrapnel »

It would actually be around nineteen entries, counting all the little fiddly beholder-kin and various offshoots.
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Post by Hicks »

Your suffering and impending diabetes amuses me. Do them all.

I actually own the entire 2e set of monstrous compendiums, and look up the raven on your behalf when I get home.
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Post by RelentlessImp »

I vote 'Do them all', especially if you're going to scan and upload the artwork of each creature, because some of it is good and some of it is hilarious.
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Post by ...You Lost Me »

I think you should read through the find the dumbest ones and talk about those.
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Post by Red_Rob »

Do them all! This guy did them all and it only took him 2 years!

I guess you could skip entries you really can't think of anything to say about, but there was so much information on each monster I can't see that happening too often. That's one of the things I miss about the 3e monster manual format, it stripped out most of the fluff. Sure, all you really need are the stats I guess, but there were some really cool and unusual things hidden in the monster descriptions in the 2e book. Things that made you look at a monster in a new way or suggested plot hooks you might not have considered.
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Post by Username17 »

For what it is worth, the 2nd edition monsters in all their retarded glory are online where you can read them.

I don't think we're missing anything by not having ha'Ponies or wereswine (as distinct from centaurs or wereboars), but I think that it is moderately sad that we no longer have Death's Head Trees. Because that is some seriously fucked up shit and makes for a truly memorable encounter every time.

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Post by Darth Rabbitt »

Mongrelman, you totally need to do Mongrelman; I remember that being fucking hilarious.

Also, "fuck you, no save" monsters like the demilich, and to a lesser extent the Nymph and Foxwoman and the others that fall apart as soon as you play a LGBT character, or one under the effect of a girdle of sex change.

The British hippo mercenaries from Spelljammer are assumed to be a given.

And the 9001+$TEXAS dragons, golems and beholders.

Don't really care about what else; I happen to be fond of Thri-Kreen, Mind Flayers, Lizard Men, Yuan-Ti and Death Knights but I don't recall any of them being particularly ridiculous or interesting in the 2e books (other than Dragonlance for the latter, but that's because Dragonlance.)
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Post by shadzar »

Wow you got the book picture to put in the post, and still screw its name up!

There really is no reason to review this book, other than to say it is not the loose-leaf MCs. 2nd edition first had the MCs and MM was made by picking and choosing from them all and putting a hardback book together from all the settings mixed together.

black cover had no changes over the white cover, unless a later printing made some sort of errata inclusions that did not make it into CoreRules.

Only thing about this book really is that it was a first compiled book, and had decent organization unlike 1st. Most people prefer the single monster per page over EVERY other format used in D&D history. (or complete page, not having 3 monsters crammed alphabetically on a page.)

also you comment on "horros", since you seem to be following stupid reviews like done at Something Awful... refers to Ravenloft campaign setting. Look at the MCs and you will see most things are called a horror there.

so your understanding, or lack thereof, of the book and its contents is where the hilarity ensues.

and yes, flip through th pages or check the index, cause it has a functioning one as opposed to the shit system of organization 1st MMs had.

the ability to understand some of these things you people write about is like a retard talking to a rock. except the rock, unlike us reading these fucked up attacks disguised as reviews, gets little harm by the nonsense spoken to it.
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Post by Stahlseele »

2.)
Pick and Chose.
The Good and the Dumb.
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Post by Shrapnel »

Ah, shadzar, shadzar, shadzar. You so zonky.
RelentlessImp wrote:...especially if you're going to scan and upload the artwork of each creature...
I... don't have a scanner, unfortunately. But, I'm sure that I can find all the images on the internets.
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Post by Ted the Flayer »

Re: Shadzar's post.

Wow, someone woke up on the wrong side of the DICK today.
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Post by Shrapnel »

Okay, no one's home, I'm utterly stark naked, and I don't remember taking my clothes off. Scary, but definite signs that it's time for another delving expidition into

THE 2e MONSTOROUS MANUAL

It seems general consensus is for me to do the enitire book. Daunting, but I'll try, in my own way. I'm not going to do the traditional alphabetical angle, because I'm just like that.

We will start with my favorite entry in the entire book: The Mongrelman.

Mongrelman
Image

Ah, the mongrelman. Awesome, awesome, awesome. The one important thing you have to bear in mind while reading this: Mongrelmen are a peaceful, Lawful Neutral race. I cannot stress enough the peaceful part.

Here's the description:
Mongerlmen are a mixture of the blood of many species: human, orcs, gnolls, ogres, dwarves, hobgoblins, elves, bugbears, bullywugs, and many others. Their appearance varies greatly, combining the worst features of their parent stocks. They are usually clad in dirty rags, they are ashamed of their appearence and try keep(sic) their bodies concealed, especially among strangers. They have no distinct tongue of their own, but speak a debased common, mixed with grunts, whistles, growls, and gestures. Their names often mimic animal noises.
The combat section says that mongrel man three main abilities: mimicry, pickpocketing, and camouflage, which they essentially use to basically just get along and survive.

Mongrelman can mimic any noise or sound made by any creature or monster they've encountered, 'cepting sounds and noises that count as attacks (the example of a groaning spirits death wail is given). They also have mad pickpocketing skillz, with a 70% chance of success. However, a mogrelman's best ability is it's camouflage skill: They're uber 1337 at hiding shit, with a 80% base success chance of going undetected. It takes one turn to prepare the camo, and each additional chance is an added one percent, to a maximum of 95% (after 16 turns). Successfully camo'd persons or shit aren't noticed unless they are moved, touched, or the camo'd person or shit moves itself. One thing it doesn't mention is what mongreldudes use for camo. My guess is their own by-products, probably while their still warm.

Mongreldudes usually fight with clubs and/or swords, but there'z a 5% chance that the members of any group encountered are armed with blowguns and poison or paralyzing darts.

So far, things seem okay; no real stupidity that's readily apparent.

Until we get to the Habitat/Society section. Here's where the stupid really starts flowing.

After some yakking about the percentage of hit die mongrel's have, it then comes to this:
Because of their apperance, mongrelmen are seldom welcome in any good or lawful society.
In other words: "Good guys are retarded douchebags".

That's right, good guys will not let Mongrelmen join them in their good guy reindeer games simply because they are ugly. What is this, middle school? The writers at TSR were either the "cool" kids in school, or they live in the deep south and drank absinthe from a pouch made from a cows udders; otherwise they'd know that apperance alone is not a reason to discriminate
The book then has the gall to say that Mongrelmen perform acts of violence only as self-defense. It goes on further making TSR's writers look like douchebags to say that they raise game and grow fruits and vegetables, and that they have a long tradition of art, music, and literature.

So, these are intelligent, enlightend, civilized beings who are rejected by other supposedly intelligent, enlightend civilized beings based solely on the fact that, again, they don't happen to look pretty.

Reeealllly not making the side of good look that good.

They're not treated much better by evil dudes, who basically enslave them and treat them not a whole lot worse than good guys, but hey, at least it's expected that they evil dudes will be douches. The lawful and good dudes have no such excuse.

Speaking of enslavement, it says that Mongrelmen value patience above all, and that even enslaved Mongrelmen are unwilling to revolt against their evil masters, waiting outside forces to finish off 'em off.

Moving on to Ecology, we learn that Mongrelmen are omnivorous and they have an average life span of around 25 to 35 years for when they're free, and only 15 to 20 years if they're slaves. Their infant mortality rate is often very high.
And their only natural enemies are roving tribes and bands of humaniods (re: players) who hunt them for sport.


And that's the Mongrelman. And goddamn did wading through that take a lot out of me. I'm so hopped up it's taking up my entire willpower to type straight. I've had to press each key on the board verry slowly so as not to screw up, so it's taken hours to write this.

I'll start again on another entry from the MONSTEROUS Manual sometime tomorrow, hopefully. If anyone has any suggestions as to which one I should do, post it here. Otherwise, I'll just flip over to the index and pull a name out my ass.

And damn, my head is pounding like a bitch.
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Post by Ted the Flayer »

I like reading reviews about the MONSTREOUS manual
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Post by Koumei »

Yes, the MONSTERIUS MANUAL is pretty awesome.

And don't mind shadzar, your tone simply suggested you weren't sucking 2E's decaying dick hard enough for his liking.
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Post by Darth Rabbitt »

Mongrelmen would actually make really fucking bitchin' skill monkeys, assuming they can be Thieves (and even if not they could just be decent Fighters with excellent Thief skills.)

I also like how the Mongrelman just looks like someone randomly stitched it together from a number of creatures, rather than being one deformed hybrid.

In Shrapnel's lingo, Shadzar would be considered GEEWUN.

And MONSTERIUSE MANUAL makes for fun reading indoodles.
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Post by Mistborn »

Shrapnel wrote:Mongrelman
Da fack TSR y u do dis.

Is it wrong to think that this takes the uncomfortable racialist subtext of D&D into full blown text.
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Post by OgreBattle »

I want you to review everything with breasts
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Post by Ted the Flayer »

Like the Famine Spirit.
Prak Anima wrote:Um, Frank, I believe you're missing the fact that the game is glorified spank material/foreplay.
Frank Trollman wrote:I don't think that is any excuse for a game to have bad mechanics.
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Post by Username17 »

LM wrote:Is it wrong to think that this takes the uncomfortable racialist subtext of D&D into full blown text.
No. Like the Complete Book of Elves, the Mongrelmen writeup really makes "team good" sound like a bunch of racist assholes. This in turn makes me want to stab "good" creatures. I'm not sure whether this was a deliberate stance to try to make the True Neutral "fighting for balance" position sound more attractive, or whether the writers were just people in the early nineties who happened to have disturbing and outdated views on race.

The thing is that considering what the Mongrelmen are, you could actually present them in a way that didn't make "good" look bad at all. They are a biologically impossible 31 flavor crossbreed whose main feature is that they lack the assertiveness or anti-authoritarian streak necessary to do anything but grudgingly resent enslavement. Obviously they were created in the lab of a mad wizard, and it seems equally obvious that the reason for their creation was that said mad wizard wanted sapient creatures as slaves and was starting with some creatures he magicked up before moving on to world conquest.

So you have a built-in reason why they are hated and shunned in Dwarven territory - they "worked for" the mad wizard Malabrax for years. And the Dwarves would naturally still be hacked off about that, considering all the atrocities Malabrax did during the Marmalade Wars. But no, the book has to go off on the tangent "Good People are actually racist assholes who judge books by their covers and kill in the name of an arbitrary standard of beauty". Which is all kinds of fucked up.

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Post by Rawbeard »

Kinda reminds me of revised Darksun, where the Bad Guy was Bad because he was ugly. No, really. That was his reason to hate everybody (except halflings). He was not as pretty as the others.

Yup. I think that was a theme of 2e.
Last edited by Rawbeard on Thu Mar 07, 2013 6:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Tumbling Down »

Yeah, now that you've gotten Shad fannyflustered, you basically have to review the whole book and talk shit about it all the way.
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Post by Maxus »

Huh. Sounds like Terry Pratchett ripped off the Mongelmen, for the goblins in Snuff.

And now you have to review it all man.

::manly clap on the back::

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Post by Torko »

What is it about miscegenation that causes every generation of old white people to flip the FUCK out?
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