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virgil
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Post by virgil »

ishy wrote:It really highlights how terrible PrC requirements actually are.
Hopefully (naive I know) it'll lead to better PrC write-ups in the future.
Not from Paizo. They only kept them out of appeasement to the backwards-compatible claims, and would excise the mechanic if they had the gumption.
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Voss
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Post by Voss »

Weird choice. 'Hey, guys, remember how we pushed and pushed this kickstarter to get this D&D clone game off the ground? We're really glad you supported this and all so.... yeah. Also, here's this other D&D clone game that people just gave us money for.'
Last edited by Voss on Wed Aug 13, 2014 12:15 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by Koumei »

Honestly, I'd be okay with a PF video game if it cut a lot of bullshit options out so that making a decent character, with customisation, was a simple-enough affair, and if it played out kind of like NWN2 where different traits and things change the dialogue. And if it looked pretty enough.

So if Paizo stressed the importance of looking pretty (which is how their TT game became so big) while having basically nothing to do with the actual making of the game (being banned from ringside for all plot and mechanics discussions), basically.
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Archmage Joda
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Post by Archmage Joda »

So, on the topic of the magus, how does the staff magus archetype measure up? Does it just suck horribly, or is it potentially worth taking?
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Post by Lago PARANOIA »

So, remember a couple of months back in the old thread, where I mocked Pathfinder releasing the Advance Class Guide literally less than a week when the 5E D&D PHB would come out?

Well, here's the updated product listing:
http://paizo.com/products/btpy978v/disc ... Guide#tabs

I gotta hand it to Paizo: They're not fucking around. This is a much, much heftier book than what I was expecting. Hell, this has significantly more content than both the 3E and 4E D&D Player Handbooks. Now this is what I would call a counterattack.
Josh Kablack wrote:Your freedom to make rulings up on the fly is in direct conflict with my freedom to interact with an internally consistent narrative. Your freedom to run/play a game without needing to understand a complex rule system is in direct conflict with my freedom to play a character whose abilities and flaws function as I intended within that ruleset. Your freedom to add and change rules in the middle of the game is in direct conflict with my ability to understand that rules system before I decided whether or not to join your game.

In short, your entire post is dismissive of not merely my intelligence, but my agency. And I don't mean agency as a player within one of your games, I mean my agency as a person. You do not want me to be informed when I make the fundamental decisions of deciding whether to join your game or buying your rules system.
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Post by Voss »

Lago PARANOIA wrote:So, remember a couple of months back in the old thread, where I mocked Pathfinder releasing the Advance Class Guide literally less than a week when the 5E D&D PHB would come out?

Well, here's the updated product listing:
http://paizo.com/products/btpy978v/disc ... Guide#tabs

I gotta hand it to Paizo: They're not fucking around. This is a much, much heftier book than what I was expecting. Hell, this has significantly more content than both the 3E and 4E D&D Player Handbooks. Now this is what I would call a counterattack.
Sidenote to this particular carnival: Due to whatever disaster WotC has decided to brew up with their partnership with an untested studio doing digital tools, they're aren't doing electronic versions of the 5e books. At least not anytime soon. Sure there are the limited basic rules, but there are so many (intentional) gaps in there that it isn't even in the same theoretical space.
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Post by TiaC »

Archmage Joda wrote:So, on the topic of the magus, how does the staff magus archetype measure up? Does it just suck horribly, or is it potentially worth taking?
It looks functional. Better at high levels I'd say.
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Post by Lago PARANOIA »

Belatedly: I meant the 3E and 4E D&D Player Handbook twos.
Josh Kablack wrote:Your freedom to make rulings up on the fly is in direct conflict with my freedom to interact with an internally consistent narrative. Your freedom to run/play a game without needing to understand a complex rule system is in direct conflict with my freedom to play a character whose abilities and flaws function as I intended within that ruleset. Your freedom to add and change rules in the middle of the game is in direct conflict with my ability to understand that rules system before I decided whether or not to join your game.

In short, your entire post is dismissive of not merely my intelligence, but my agency. And I don't mean agency as a player within one of your games, I mean my agency as a person. You do not want me to be informed when I make the fundamental decisions of deciding whether to join your game or buying your rules system.
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Post by Prak »

So, on the strength of the iconic Brawler illustration*, I looked for a leaked pdf of the new Advanced Class Handbook. It's easy enough to find a playtest pdf, and I'm not sure how fbmf feels about links to pirated material, so I won't link directly to it.

*
Image
Admittedly, it's a a playtest version, but I'm curious what people think of it. It doesn't look too terrible, but it's kind of just a better monk with less than optimal wording.

Basically, they get the Tome fighter's Problem Solver ability, but only usable (half class level) times per day, for 1 minute, and it takes a move action. On the other hand, as they level up, they can actually get more than one feat at a time with the ability and the action to gain a single feat drops. This is probably the best ability they have, even if any uses per day feat you gain with it has the feat's uses per day counted from one total regardless of how many times it's emulated in a day. They also have an ability where their class level counts as monk and fighter levels for the purposes of gaining feats.

They also gain a monk's unarmed strike, and a weird brawler flurry thing where they benefit from Two Weapon Fighting while fighting unarmed, or with a monk or close fighting weapon. This improves as they level up, but at the weird rate of at 8th and fifteenth level.

Oh, right. They get bonus feats at 2nd level and every three after, and at fifth level they can retrain previous bonus feats when they gain a bonus feat. Kind of cool. Unless the retraining costs you your new bonus feat (like I said, poorly worded) then it's stupid.

They get a +1 to CMB and CMD when using/defending against one specific chosen combat maneuver at third, and at 7th, 11th, 15th and 19th, they get to select another combat maneuver to get +1 to, and all the previous ones' bonuses go up by a point. Then at 4th they just get a +1 bonus to AC and CMD which increases by 1 at 9th, 13th and 18th level.

They get something like Ki Strike at 5th, where their unarmed is counted as magic, then silver and cold iron at 9th, then 1 alignment component at 12th, then adamantine at 17th. This... could really be fucking earlier. Unarmed-focused class unarmed attacks should just start magical. And then materials should be at once and obtained at around 4th level. And you should just fucking get an alignment component at like 7th level, and then another every 2 or 3 levels until they can just count as whatever alignment they want for DR.

At 13th, they can make a knockout attack once a day, typical fort DC scheme, but they can choose Str or Dex for it. Lasts 1d6 rounds, and usable 3/day at 16th. Crit/Nonlethal immunity makes you immune to this attack.

At 16th they get an ability to make a special knockback (10ft) combat maneuver against creatures their size or smaller, which deals 1d6 damage to victim and what they hit if any obstacle prevents it. At 20th this improves to affect creatures of any size, with a -5/size cat above the brawler. They can roll a second combat maneuver roll if the first succeeds to make the thing do double damage.

*sigh* when the fuck am I going to get a martial artist class that lets me punch people through fucking walls at high levels?
Last edited by Prak on Wed Aug 13, 2014 6:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.
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Post by Axebird »

Yeah. Brawler looks like it's slightly more competent than monk... but still not nearly good enough. The feats are cool, but the limited uses per day are harsh compared to the duration, and the feats you can get are... underwhelming.
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Post by Prak »

Yeah, I figured that would be the case on feats. I mean, it's a nice way to make use of the stupidly circumstantial feats PF has, but that's about it.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.
Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.
FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
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Archmage Joda
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Post by Archmage Joda »

I'm a bit unclear, Prak, did you actually find a leaked pdf of the final book, or just give up and settle for the playtest document?
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Post by Prak »

playtest only. So things may change (though I doubt it). Apparently it was an open playtest, so, link: http://gforcecomp.com/wp-content/uploads/r-acg.pdf

Edit: so I just noticed that classes in the ACG were all designed to mix two base classes. Which is a neat idea. On the other hand, you're not allowed to multiclass with either of the classes that were voltroned together to make the advanced class or any other advanced class that shares either component.
Last edited by Prak on Wed Aug 13, 2014 7:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.
Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.
FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
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Post by Axebird »

They retracted the multiclassing restrictions in the final.
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Prak
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Post by Prak »

Oh, well that's good.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.
Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.
FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
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OgreBattle
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Post by OgreBattle »

So is this worth flipping through for inspiration/ideas or is it mostly a testament to failure
Axebird
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Post by Axebird »

Half and half. They've got some cool ideas (Bloodrager is neat), and some real bad ones (Swashbucklers are just more crappy glass cannon martials, a feat that straight up gives Cha to all saves).

In other news... this is a joke, right? Please tell me this is a hoax.
Last edited by Axebird on Wed Aug 13, 2014 11:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by hogarth »

Lago PARANOIA wrote:I gotta hand it to Paizo: They're not fucking around. This is a much, much heftier book than what I was expecting.
This is exactly the same size as the other hardcover rules splatbooks they have been churning out every six months (Ultimate Magic, Ultimate Combat, Mythic Adventures, Ultimate Campaign, Master Race Handbook, etc.). I'm not sure why you expected something smaller.
Last edited by hogarth on Wed Aug 13, 2014 11:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Voss »

hogarth wrote:
Lago PARANOIA wrote:I gotta hand it to Paizo: They're not fucking around. This is a much, much heftier book than what I was expecting.
This is exactly the same size as the other hardcover rules splatbooks they have been churning out every six months (Ultimate Magic, Ultimate Combat, Mythic Adventures, Ultimate Campaign, Master Race Handbook, etc.). I'm not sure why you expected something smaller.
Probably because the playtest version gave no indication of all that other stuff, particularly yet more archetypes for the old classes. As written it just looked like an info dump of poorly thought out gestalts
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Post by Avoraciopoctules »

OBSIDIAN ANNOUNCES PATHFINDER LICENSE

Obsidian to partner with Paizo Inc. to release electronic Pathfinder games

INDIANAPOLIS -- August 13, 2014 -- Obsidian Entertainment, the developer of Fallout: New Vegas, South Park: the Stick of Truth and the Kickstarter phenomenon Pillars of Eternity, announced that they have entered into a long-term licensing partnership with Paizo Inc. to produce electronic games based on its popular Pathfinder Roleplaying Game intellectual property

Obsidian's first licensed product will be a tablet game based on the highly successful Pathfinder Adventure Card game, a cooperative game for 1 to 4 players. Players each have a unique character composed of a deck of cards and a set of stats. Characters have classes such as fighter, rogue, wizard and cleric, as well as numbers that define attributes such as strength, wisdom and charisma etc. Players will be able to customize their deck to better suit each individual’s vision of their character.

"At Obsidian we have a long history of working with the greatest RPG franchises, and we're thrilled to get to play in the Pathfinder universe now," said CEO Feargus Urquhart. "We're huge fans and can't wait to bring what we do in the electronic gaming world to Pathfinder fans everywhere".

In the world of Pathfinder, players take on the role of brave adventurers fighting to survive in a world beset by magic and evil. The Pathfinder RPG is currently translated into multiple languages, with hundreds of thousands of players worldwide. The Pathfinder brand has also been licensed for comic book series, graphic novels, miniatures, plush toys, apparel, and is being developed into a massively multiplayer online roleplaying game.

"Obsidian is a video game developer at the top of its game", said Paizo CEO Lisa Stevens. "Being able to bring that type of experience and passion to Pathfinder can only mean great things, both for our loyal Pathfinder community and for all fans of great CRPG's."

Obsidian will be at Gen Con 2014 showing off an early prototype of the digital Pathfinder Adventure Card Game in the Paizo booth (#203) and in their own booth (#2151) featuring the first consumer hands on for Pillars of Eternity.
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Post by Longes »

Avoraciopoctules wrote:
OBSIDIAN ANNOUNCES PATHFINDER LICENSE

Obsidian to partner with Paizo Inc. to release electronic Pathfinder games

INDIANAPOLIS -- August 13, 2014 -- Obsidian Entertainment, the developer of Fallout: New Vegas, South Park: the Stick of Truth and the Kickstarter phenomenon Pillars of Eternity, announced that they have entered into a long-term licensing partnership with Paizo Inc. to produce electronic games based on its popular Pathfinder Roleplaying Game intellectual property

Obsidian's first licensed product will be a tablet game based on the highly successful Pathfinder Adventure Card game, a cooperative game for 1 to 4 players. Players each have a unique character composed of a deck of cards and a set of stats. Characters have classes such as fighter, rogue, wizard and cleric, as well as numbers that define attributes such as strength, wisdom and charisma etc. Players will be able to customize their deck to better suit each individual’s vision of their character.

"At Obsidian we have a long history of working with the greatest RPG franchises, and we're thrilled to get to play in the Pathfinder universe now," said CEO Feargus Urquhart. "We're huge fans and can't wait to bring what we do in the electronic gaming world to Pathfinder fans everywhere".

In the world of Pathfinder, players take on the role of brave adventurers fighting to survive in a world beset by magic and evil. The Pathfinder RPG is currently translated into multiple languages, with hundreds of thousands of players worldwide. The Pathfinder brand has also been licensed for comic book series, graphic novels, miniatures, plush toys, apparel, and is being developed into a massively multiplayer online roleplaying game.

"Obsidian is a video game developer at the top of its game", said Paizo CEO Lisa Stevens. "Being able to bring that type of experience and passion to Pathfinder can only mean great things, both for our loyal Pathfinder community and for all fans of great CRPG's."

Obsidian will be at Gen Con 2014 showing off an early prototype of the digital Pathfinder Adventure Card Game in the Paizo booth (#203) and in their own booth (#2151) featuring the first consumer hands on for Pillars of Eternity.
I liked Neverwinter Nights 2 and add-ons. So, eh, I'm hopeful.
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Post by malak »

Avoraciopoctules wrote:
OBSIDIAN ANNOUNCES PATHFINDER LICENSE

Obsidian to partner with Paizo Inc. to release electronic Pathfinder games

INDIANAPOLIS -- August 13, 2014 -- Obsidian Entertainment, the developer of Fallout: New Vegas, South Park: the Stick of Truth and the Kickstarter phenomenon Pillars of Eternity, announced that they have entered into a long-term licensing partnership with Paizo Inc. to produce electronic games based on its popular Pathfinder Roleplaying Game intellectual property

Obsidian's first licensed product will be a tablet game based on the highly successful Pathfinder Adventure Card game, a cooperative game for 1 to 4 players. Players each have a unique character composed of a deck of cards and a set of stats. Characters have classes such as fighter, rogue, wizard and cleric, as well as numbers that define attributes such as strength, wisdom and charisma etc. Players will be able to customize their deck to better suit each individual’s vision of their character.

"At Obsidian we have a long history of working with the greatest RPG franchises, and we're thrilled to get to play in the Pathfinder universe now," said CEO Feargus Urquhart. "We're huge fans and can't wait to bring what we do in the electronic gaming world to Pathfinder fans everywhere".

In the world of Pathfinder, players take on the role of brave adventurers fighting to survive in a world beset by magic and evil. The Pathfinder RPG is currently translated into multiple languages, with hundreds of thousands of players worldwide. The Pathfinder brand has also been licensed for comic book series, graphic novels, miniatures, plush toys, apparel, and is being developed into a massively multiplayer online roleplaying game.

"Obsidian is a video game developer at the top of its game", said Paizo CEO Lisa Stevens. "Being able to bring that type of experience and passion to Pathfinder can only mean great things, both for our loyal Pathfinder community and for all fans of great CRPG's."

Obsidian will be at Gen Con 2014 showing off an early prototype of the digital Pathfinder Adventure Card Game in the Paizo booth (#203) and in their own booth (#2151) featuring the first consumer hands on for Pillars of Eternity.
But...Obsidian, so great and yet so flawed, and Pathfinder, so flawed and yet... not great.
Lago PARANOIA
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Post by Lago PARANOIA »

Damn, that's one spiteful poke in the eye for WotC. And coming off of the 'exploded in the hangar' 5E digital tools it just makes WotC look that much worse, doesn't it?

If Hasbro had even a little bit of competence, Mike Mearls would soon wake up next to a horse's head in his bed.
Josh Kablack wrote:Your freedom to make rulings up on the fly is in direct conflict with my freedom to interact with an internally consistent narrative. Your freedom to run/play a game without needing to understand a complex rule system is in direct conflict with my freedom to play a character whose abilities and flaws function as I intended within that ruleset. Your freedom to add and change rules in the middle of the game is in direct conflict with my ability to understand that rules system before I decided whether or not to join your game.

In short, your entire post is dismissive of not merely my intelligence, but my agency. And I don't mean agency as a player within one of your games, I mean my agency as a person. You do not want me to be informed when I make the fundamental decisions of deciding whether to join your game or buying your rules system.
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Post by Voss »

Oh. A tablet card game. I guess Pillars of Eternity backers (and people looking forward to it) have nothing to worry about after all.

Paizo/Obsidian definitely seem to feel like they can play with the big boys, however. Digital MtG and Blizzard's Heathstone are the competitors here.

This should be funny in a train wreck kind of way.
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