The Gaming Den Forum Index The Gaming Den
Welcome to the Gaming Den.
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Google
 Search WWW   Search tgdmb.com 
Complete Tome items and Wish Economy
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Gaming Den Forum Index -> It's My Own Invention...
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Red_Rob
Prince


Joined: 17 Jul 2009
Posts: 2555

PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 1:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Along with implementing TarkisFlux's separation of the currencies, I'm currently going over the item types and highlighting areas that don't work correctly or could cause a problem if abused. The two major areas I'm concerned about are cheap offensive spell substitutes and potentially stackable buffs. The first leads to the Consumable Nova and the second leads to an accounting nightmare.

Spell Arrows and scrolls are something I'm not entirely happy with at the moment. I like the way they play when used as rare, limited use effects but striking the balance so that you aren't incentivised to start every fight with the whole party launching Sling Bullets of Stinking Cloud is tricky. The thing is spells are balanced as a limited use resource, so it is intentional that using a Wizard's highest level spell has a good chance of winning a level appropriate encounter outright. The problem comes when you find a way to cheat extra uses of these spells, then everything becomes a cakewalk.

On a similar note, I've been thinking that Wands and Staves should be more distinct. I feel the current mechanic is suitable for Staves, but Wands should provide an at-will magical effect (usually an attack) that is level appropriate for their item level, but weaker than an appropriately levelled spell. This would mean they could be cheaper and more common than a Staff of the same level, making Staffs feel more special, along with making things a little more difficult than just grabbing a wand of Fvcking Killing People and going to town.
_________________
Simplified Tome Armor. Tome item system and expanded Wish Economy rules.

"Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have found out the exact measure of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them, and these will continue till they are resisted with either words or blows, or with both. The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Surgo
Duke


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 1887

PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 2:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Well, if I can get you to post a diff or changelog, that would be great Smile

Alternatively, you could always edit the wikitext as the canonical source!
_________________
http://www.dnd-wiki.org -- the wiki


Last edited by Surgo on Tue Feb 25, 2014 2:19 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Sigil
Knight


Joined: 17 Jan 2013
Posts: 338

PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 4:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Rob, I have noticed one thing your system is missing, magical trinkets (for lack of a better term). Magic items that are so minor, that they aren't even worth an item slot. I'm talking about things like universal solvent, tree tokens, everburning torches, etc. While not the most important part of the 3.5 magic item system, I do think they lend an interesting flavor to the game.

Admittedly, such items would clash with the 8 item limit, and possibly go against the in-game justification for said limit. Perhaps they could be redefined as magic items and passed off as "not quite magic"?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Wiseman
Duke


Joined: 09 Mar 2012
Posts: 1131
Location: lost... HELP!

PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 4:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Why not limit wands to purely evocation spells, at the original 50 charge per wand.

Then again, are wands of CLW really that big of a deal?
_________________
Check out my RP site!

Click here to see the hidden message (It might contain spoilers)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
ubernoob
Duke


Joined: 17 May 2008
Posts: 2443

PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 6:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

//

Last edited by ubernoob on Tue Jun 09, 2015 1:45 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TarkisFlux
Duke


Joined: 22 Jun 2008
Posts: 1142
Location: Magic Mountain, CA

PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 7:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Red_Rob wrote:
Along with implementing TarkisFlux's separation of the currencies

Awwwww yeeeaahhh... contribution ftw!

Red_Rob wrote:
The two major areas I'm concerned about are cheap offensive spell substitutes and potentially stackable buffs. The first leads to the Consumable Nova and the second leads to an accounting nightmare.

Since you didn't respond to it directly earlier, I'll ask again. Why not just give people 2 slots to use consumables (and only consumables) with, on top of whatever other slots they happen to have free? Is it actually a game problem if they want to play buff accounting nightmare or offensive nova with consumables rather than attune constant gear, or a preference one?

Red_Rob wrote:
On a similar note, I've been thinking that Wands and Staves should be more distinct. I feel the current mechanic is suitable for Staves, but Wands should provide an at-will magical effect (usually an attack) that is level appropriate for their item level, but weaker than an appropriately levelled spell.

So... a warlock's blast basically? Possibly in "healing" flavor as well? Not terrible, but not very varied either. Might want to toss on a minor benefit as well (spell focus, spell penetration, random number wizard feat, etc.)for differentiation, and also so wizards care about attuning them.

You should also consider removing the 2-hand requirement from staves if this goes through, since all spell effects will be restricted to them and other classes often want them (as indicated by ubernoob's comment, which is likely in reference to any non-full BAB class with UMD or the spell).

Sigil wrote:
Rob, I have noticed one thing your system is missing, magical trinkets (for lack of a better term). Magic items that are so minor, that they aren't even worth an item slot. I'm talking about things like universal solvent, tree tokens, everburning torches, etc. While not the most important part of the 3.5 magic item system, I do think they lend an interesting flavor to the game.

Admittedly, such items would clash with the 8 item limit, and possibly go against the in-game justification for said limit. Perhaps they could be redefined as magic items and passed off as "not quite magic"?

Some of these could well piggyback on whatever consumable solution is offered, so throwing down a tree token or using a solvent is similar to drinking a weak potion or whatever.

Everburning torches are different, as they're not a crafted magic item per se. They're the direct result of a spell effect and may not even need to count against an item limit because of that. While "spell created items don't count" is a potential can of worms, their comparison with sunrods and similar alchemical gear that doesn't use a slot seems like it earns a pass in this case. Probably with a disclaimer text so higher level things don't go crazy (or at least no crazier than minor creationing poison or whatever).
_________________
The wiki you should be linking to when you need a wiki link - http://www.dnd-wiki.org

Fectin: "Ant, what is best in life?"
Ant: "Ethically, a task well-completed for the good of the colony. Experientially, endorphins."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
codeGlaze
Duke


Joined: 05 Oct 2011
Posts: 1070

PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Surgo wrote:
Alternatively, you could always edit the wikitext as the canonical source!
This is a pretty good idea.
_________________
Phlebotinum : fleh-bot-ih-nuhmA glossary of RPG/Dennizen terminology • Favorite replies: [1]
nockermensch wrote:
Advantage will lead to dicepools in D&D. Remember, you read this here first!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Red_Rob
Prince


Joined: 17 Jul 2009
Posts: 2555

PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 11:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

TarkisFlux wrote:
Since you didn't respond to it directly earlier, I'll ask again. Why not just give people 2 slots to use consumables (and only consumables) with, on top of whatever other slots they happen to have free? Is it actually a game problem if they want to play buff accounting nightmare or offensive nova with consumables rather than attune constant gear, or a preference one?

Here's some discussion on the subject. The most relevant section is as follows:
Frank wrote:
Once players embrace the 3e methodology of grabbing "limited" use items for whatever they want to use and then burning through it like toilet paper, pretty much all opposition can be laughably steamrollered. You noticed how completely non-threatening arrow traps are once you get a wand of cure light? Now proceed to watch the fifty encounter workday once people become willing to buy a wand of Solid fog and a wand of summon swarm (or any other area DOT) every day. You know how meaningless a 21,000 gp daily surcharge is when you have fifty treasure parcels?

Or, more succinctly:
Quote:
The fact of the matter is that 50 level appropriate spells in a day is broken as fuck


This is my worry with consumables that directly mimic spell effects. At the point it becomes cheaper to buy a scroll, wand or spell arrow of a level appropriate spell for each encounter you expect to face than you get back in treasure you have all the problems of the 3e consumables system. I'd rather build that incentive out of the system than just hope players don't notice.

TarkisFlux wrote:
Red_Rob wrote:
On a similar note, I've been thinking that Wands and Staves should be more distinct. I feel the current mechanic is suitable for Staves, but Wands should provide an at-will magical effect (usually an attack) that is level appropriate for their item level, but weaker than an appropriately levelled spell.

So... a warlock's blast basically?

Hopefully more varied and interesting than a warlock's blast. I was thinking they should be more analogous to Magic Weapons for wizards. By having them usable at will it would cut down on counting charges, and by having their effects be somewhat less than a full spell it would help lessen the nova effect referred to earlier. There could still be utility versions, as spells like Silence and Invisibility aren't as problematic when at-will as Stinking Cloud or Confusion would be.
Sigil wrote:
Rob, I have noticed one thing your system is missing, magical trinkets (for lack of a better term). Magic items that are so minor, that they aren't even worth an item slot.... Perhaps they could be redefined as magic items and passed off as "not quite magic"?


You said it yourself, if they aren't worth a slot then they don't interact with the slots system. Yeah I should maybe mention them, but in general if they are no more powerful than a thunderstone or a sunrod then they aren't something that needs to be regulated.
Surgo wrote:
you could always edit the wikitext as the canonical source!

I might just do that.
_________________
Simplified Tome Armor. Tome item system and expanded Wish Economy rules.

"Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have found out the exact measure of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them, and these will continue till they are resisted with either words or blows, or with both. The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TarkisFlux
Duke


Joined: 22 Jun 2008
Posts: 1142
Location: Magic Mountain, CA

PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 12:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Red_Rob wrote:
TarkisFlux wrote:
Since you didn't respond to it directly earlier, I'll ask again. Why not just give people 2 slots to use consumables (and only consumables) with, on top of whatever other slots they happen to have free? Is it actually a game problem if they want to play buff accounting nightmare or offensive nova with consumables rather than attune constant gear, or a preference one?

Here's some discussion on the subject. The most relevant section is as follows:
Frank wrote:
Once players embrace the 3e methodology of grabbing "limited" use items for whatever they want to use and then burning through it like toilet paper, pretty much all opposition can be laughably steamrollered. You noticed how completely non-threatening arrow traps are once you get a wand of cure light? Now proceed to watch the fifty encounter workday once people become willing to buy a wand of Solid fog and a wand of summon swarm (or any other area DOT) every day. You know how meaningless a 21,000 gp daily surcharge is when you have fifty treasure parcels?

Or, more succinctly:
Quote:
The fact of the matter is that 50 level appropriate spells in a day is broken as fuck


This is my worry with consumables that directly mimic spell effects. At the point it becomes cheaper to buy a scroll, wand or spell arrow of a level appropriate spell for each encounter you expect to face than you get back in treasure you have all the problems of the 3e consumables system. I'd rather build that incentive out of the system than just hope players don't notice.

The key term in there is "level appropriate", and it doesn't look like you'd get anywhere close to large piles of level appropriate effects with current consumable pricing. Your parcel system seems to similarly prevent run away consumable use, above the wish limit anyway, with the recommendation that you get some number of items per level rather than encounter. Since you can trade your greater item at level 14 for approximately 12 level 7 scrolls, and then you're done with greater items for the level, runaway use seems unlikely. And if it does come up anyway, you can just fix pricing (which I've previously said is kinda weird).

Yeah, you could still start fights with sling bullets of stinking cloud because it's under the wish limit. But you'd be level 10+ when that happened and you could well be trading other consumable uses / item attunements for the privilege (because consumables using scroll rules have opportunity costs in remaining attuned for 1d4 minutes afterwards). I think it's a much smaller problem than you, or at least a non-difficult one to solve with respect to level appropriate effects.

I look forward to seeing what you come up with though. A tighter handle on them certainly wouldn't hurt.
_________________
The wiki you should be linking to when you need a wiki link - http://www.dnd-wiki.org

Fectin: "Ant, what is best in life?"
Ant: "Ethically, a task well-completed for the good of the colony. Experientially, endorphins."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Wiseman
Duke


Joined: 09 Mar 2012
Posts: 1131
Location: lost... HELP!

PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 2:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

ubernoob wrote:
Wiseman wrote:
Why not limit wands to purely evocation spells, at the original 50 charge per wand.

Then again, are wands of CLW really that big of a deal?
Divine power.


Huh, why the hell is it in evocation instead of transmutation?
_________________
Check out my RP site!

Click here to see the hidden message (It might contain spoilers)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
ubernoob
Duke


Joined: 17 May 2008
Posts: 2443

PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 4:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

//

Last edited by ubernoob on Tue Jun 09, 2015 1:45 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Red_Rob
Prince


Joined: 17 Jul 2009
Posts: 2555

PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 12:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

TarkisFlux wrote:
The key term in there is "level appropriate", and it doesn't look like you'd get anywhere close to large piles of level appropriate effects with current consumable pricing.


This is one reason I was looking to change Wands - they are probably the most economical way to get repeated spell effects at the moment. One side effect of using scaling DC's rather than the fixed ones suggested in the PHB is that spells without a separate HD limit (as seen on Colour Spray or Deep Slumber) stay "level appropriate" for longer. Stinking Cloud with a level appropriate DC will still fuck up a Cloud Giant's day.

Quote:
I look forward to seeing what you come up with though. A tighter handle on them certainly wouldn't hurt.

I just started a new job which is taking a lot of time up at the moment, but hopefully I'll have something up in the next few days.
_________________
Simplified Tome Armor. Tome item system and expanded Wish Economy rules.

"Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have found out the exact measure of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them, and these will continue till they are resisted with either words or blows, or with both. The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
zugschef
Knight-Baron


Joined: 02 Feb 2013
Posts: 750

PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Wiseman wrote:
ubernoob wrote:
Wiseman wrote:
Why not limit wands to purely evocation spells, at the original 50 charge per wand.

Then again, are wands of CLW really that big of a deal?
Divine power.


Huh, why the hell is it in evocation instead of transmutation?

I think it's because you're supposed to be channeling positive energy into your body. Thus, you could actually make the claim that it should be a necromantic spell, as well.


Last edited by zugschef on Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:22 am; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Red_Rob
Prince


Joined: 17 Jul 2009
Posts: 2555

PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 12:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Inbetween work, family and Dominions I've been working on revising things to take into account the issues highlighted by Tarkisflux and others, plus some things I've noticed that could cause problems.

So here's my current changelog:

CHANGE WISH ECONOMY TO DP STANDARD:
All WE goods cost DP = gp/1000 except as below:

Medium Item 15DP
Greater Item 60DP

Souls CR9+ 8DP
Souls CR16+ 30DP
Pain 1DP per 5 doses

Fixed WBL chart showing DP equivalencies, including average treasure parcels for each level with smoother increase.

Changes to Consumables:
Spell Arrows use slot for 5mins
Spell Arrows only allow spells dealing damage or requiring a saving throw
Scrolls Full Round to read and use slot for 5mins
Tighten up dust sprinkle / throw rules
Change Dust costs to match oil/potion

Wands / Staffs
Wands now provide at-will effects
Staves use current mechanics but cost twice as much as a standard item of their level

Wands:
A wand is a wizard's equivalent of a magical weapon. As such they are instantly attuned by being wielded, and can be unattuned at will providing none of their effects are currently ongoing. A wand provides a number of Spell Like Abilities that can be activated by the wielder as a Standard Action. In order to activate a Wand ability the wielder's Character Level must equal the required level, and the Trigger Spell must be on their class spell list.

EXAMPLE LESSER WAND:
Wand of Fire
Abilities:
Char Level 1
Trigger Spell: Burning Hands
Effect: A bolt of flame shoots out to strike one target within Short Range. Treat this as a Ranged Touch Attack dealing D6 Fire damage/level. The target must make a Ref Save or they are set On Fire.

Char Level 5
Trigger Spell: Fireball
Effect: A blast of flames shoots out to Medium Range. Treat this as a 10' burst dealing D6 Fire damage/level to each target within the area. Each target may make a Ref Save to halve the damage taken.

Minor/Bugfixes:
Fix CL for dispels
Candles & Chimes DC scales
Iron Bands use time reduction
Terror weapon 3 rounds duration
Banishing weapon typo
Lifelight state duration
Note about trinkets?
Nonstandard forms currently clunky?

Is there anything else I really need to include? Anything there that people violently disagree with?
_________________
Simplified Tome Armor. Tome item system and expanded Wish Economy rules.

"Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have found out the exact measure of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them, and these will continue till they are resisted with either words or blows, or with both. The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TarkisFlux
Duke


Joined: 22 Jun 2008
Posts: 1142
Location: Magic Mountain, CA

PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 4:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Scroll cast - full round action, or 1 round? It looks like you want full round action, but it should be more clear (because stupid terminology issues).

Wands look interesting. So long as they're smaller in effect than the trigger spell (to avoid trampling on fire mages / sphere users with at-wills), they should be fine.

Still keeping the level 3 potion / level 6 dust item limits?

For reference, are potions / dusts basically double scroll costs? What about spell arrow costs given their use restrictions?
_________________
The wiki you should be linking to when you need a wiki link - http://www.dnd-wiki.org

Fectin: "Ant, what is best in life?"
Ant: "Ethically, a task well-completed for the good of the colony. Experientially, endorphins."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Lokathor
Duke


Joined: 01 Nov 2009
Posts: 2119
Location: ID

PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Quote:
Dispelling - A weapon of dispelling destroys magic. Anything struck that fails a Willpower Save is targeted by a targeted dispel magic, with a dispelling check of d20 + wielder’s character level (no cap).


This should have a line saying that it affects objects, otherwise you can't dispel golems or undead (or magical locks on doors). Also, you should be able to dispel lasting area effects (web, obscuring mist, etc) by spending an attack swinging at them.
_________________
Ends Of The Matrix (GitBook), After Sundown (Gitbook), Immobile Sun
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address
Red_Rob
Prince


Joined: 17 Jul 2009
Posts: 2555

PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 12:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

TarkisFlux wrote:
Scroll cast - full round action, or 1 round?

Full round should be sufficient in conjunction with the slot usage.

Quote:
Wands look interesting. So long as they're smaller in effect than the trigger spell (to avoid trampling on fire mages / sphere users with at-wills), they should be fine.

I was thinking about how getting repeatable effects that were better than level appropriate was really hard to balance and I just thought "why can't they be at-will level appropriate abilities?". The goal is they should be the kind of thing you'd see a class like the Stormlord get at-will at that level. The fact you had to buy an item and use a slot on it should mean they don't overshadow those classes, but I am being a little careful. The Fire Wand is an indication of where I want the abilities to be - useful and worth a combat action, but not as good as a straight up highest level spell you get at that level.

Quote:
Still keeping the level 3 potion / level 6 dust item limits?

For reference, are potions / dusts basically double scroll costs? What about spell arrow costs given their use restrictions?

I've kept the limits for the moment, but I'm not sure it's really a problem. Regarding costs I am looking at moving to a unified consumable cost structure. Ideally I'd like to keep low level consumables useable at low levels, which means level 1 consumables don't want to be more than about 100gp I think.

Lokathor wrote:
This should have a line saying that it affects objects

Sure, that seems reasonable. I'll add it to the list.
_________________
Simplified Tome Armor. Tome item system and expanded Wish Economy rules.

"Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have found out the exact measure of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them, and these will continue till they are resisted with either words or blows, or with both. The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress."


Last edited by Red_Rob on Sun Mar 23, 2014 12:38 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TarkisFlux
Duke


Joined: 22 Jun 2008
Posts: 1142
Location: Magic Mountain, CA

PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 1:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Red_Rob wrote:
TarkisFlux wrote:
Scroll cast - full round action, or 1 round?

Full round should be sufficient in conjunction with the slot usage.

I was looking for clarification, not justification, and this is still unclear. Or at least insufficiently clear IMO, because people get sloppy with at table language and often talk about spending a full round doing something that takes 1 round. So, "Full round action" or "1 round"?

Red_Rob wrote:
Quote:
Wands look interesting. So long as they're smaller in effect than the trigger spell (to avoid trampling on fire mages / sphere users with at-wills), they should be fine.

I was thinking about how getting repeatable effects that were better than level appropriate was really hard to balance and I just thought "why can't they be at-will level appropriate abilities?". The goal is they should be the kind of thing you'd see a class like the Stormlord get at-will at that level. The fact you had to buy an item and use a slot on it should mean they don't overshadow those classes, but I am being a little careful. The Fire Wand is an indication of where I want the abilities to be - useful and worth a combat action, but not as good as a straight up highest level spell you get at that level.

It's mostly a concern about duplicating them by grabbing an item. Those classes get a pass on casting their highest thing all day long because their selection is so limited, and they don't have class lists to magic item bootstrap into different spells. Being able to swap between a cold dude and a fire mage and a puppeteer by grabbing different wands would be annoying. Being able to swap between pale imitations of them by grabbing different wants isn't.

To say nothing of how you'd just worsen the consumable nova problem by giving full casters hot-swappable spell sticks with now unlimited charges.

Which is really more of me just agreeing with you. Careful is good here I think.

Red_Rob wrote:
Quote:
Still keeping the level 3 potion / level 6 dust item limits?

I've kept the limits for the moment, but I'm not sure it's really a problem. Regarding costs I am looking at moving to a unified consumable cost structure. Ideally I'd like to keep low level consumables useable at low levels, which means level 1 consumables don't want to be more than about 100gp I think.

I don't think the limits matter much either and wouldn't care if they vanished. Everything over 3 will be WE material stuff anyway.
_________________
The wiki you should be linking to when you need a wiki link - http://www.dnd-wiki.org

Fectin: "Ant, what is best in life?"
Ant: "Ethically, a task well-completed for the good of the colony. Experientially, endorphins."


Last edited by TarkisFlux on Sun Mar 23, 2014 1:03 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Red_Rob
Prince


Joined: 17 Jul 2009
Posts: 2555

PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Some more Wand ideas:

Red_Rob wrote:
Wands:
A wand is a wizard's equivalent of a magical weapon. As such they are instantly attuned by being wielded, and can be unattuned at will providing none of their effects are currently ongoing. A wand provides a number of Spell Like Abilities that can be activated by the wielder as a Standard Action. In order to activate a Wand ability the wielder's Character Level must equal the required level, and the Trigger Spell must be on their class spell list.

LESSER WANDS:
Wand of Fire
Char Level 1 Trigger Spell: Burning Hands
Effect: A bolt of flame shoots out to strike one target within Short Range. Treat this as a Ranged Touch Attack dealing D6 Fire damage/level. The target must make a Ref Save or they are set On Fire.

Char Level 5 Trigger Spell: Fireball
Effect: A blast of flames shoots out to Medium Range. Treat this as a 10' burst dealing D6 Fire damage/level to each target within the area. Each target may make a Ref Save to halve the damage taken.


Wand of Ice
Char Level 1 Trigger Spell: Ray of Frost
Effect: An icy blast shoots out to strike one target within Short Range. Treat this as a Ranged Touch Attack dealing D6 Cold damage/level. The target must make a Fort Save or they are Fatigued.

Char Level 5 Trigger Spell: Cone of Cold
Effect: A 40' cone of icy shards springs from the end of the wand. Everyone in the area takes D6 Cold damage/level and may make a Ref save to halve the damage taken.


Wand of Lightning
Char Level 1 Trigger Spell: Shocking Grasp
Effect: A jolt of lightning shoots out to strike one target within Short Range. Treat this as a Ranged Touch Attack dealing D6 Electricity damage/level. If the attack hits the jolt will attempt to leap to another target within Short range of the original - roll to hit again against the second target. Only one additional target can be struck per use of this ability.

Char Level 5 Trigger Spell: Lightning Bolt
Effect: A bolt of lightning shoots in a straight line out to Medium range. Anything in its path takes D6 Electricity damage/level and may make a Ref save to halve the damage.


Wand of Grease
Char Level 1 Trigger Spell: Grease
Effect: The wielder may shoot a jet of foul smelling grease that affects a 5' square within Short range with a Grease effect as per the spell. This grease lasts for one round before evaporating.

Char Level 5 Trigger Spell: Stinking Cloud
Effect: A cloud of putrid fumes flows out to Medium range. Treat this as a 10' burst that blocks line of sight. Anyone within the cloud at the start of their turn must make a Fort save or be Nauseated for one round. The cloud remains for one round before dispersing.


Wand of Missiles
Char Level 1 Trigger Spell: Magic Missile
Effect: One magic missile, plus one additional missile per 2 levels of the wielder above 1, shoot from the wand to strike targets within Short range. These missiles hit automatically and deal 1D4+1 Force damage.

Char Level 5 Trigger Spell: Daze Monster
Effect: A bolt of magical force shoots out to strike one target within Medium range. This bolt hits automatically and deals 1D4 Force damage/level to the target, who must make a Will save or be Dazed for 1 round by the blast.


Wand of Colors
Char Level 1 Trigger Spell: Color Spray
Effect: A kaleidoscopic cone of lights shoots from the wand in a 15' cone. Anyone in this area must make a Will save or be Blinded for one round.

Char Level 5 Trigger Spell: Minor Image
Effect: The wielder can create a visual illusion within Medium range that cannot be larger than a 10' square and includes sight and sound. This illusion lasts as long as the wielder concentrates on it, however it is not solid and creates no illusion of touch.


Wand of Acid
Char Level 1 Trigger Spell: Acid Splash
Effect: A jet of acid shoots out to strike one target within Short Range. Treat this as a Ranged Touch Attack dealing D6 Acid damage/level. The target must make a Ref save to wipe the acid away, otherwise it deals an additional D4/level damage one round later before evaporating.

Char Level 5 Trigger Spell: Acid Arrow
Effect: An acid projectile shoots out to strike one target within Medium Range. Treat this as a Ranged Touch Attack dealing D6 Acid damage/level. The target must make a Ref save to wipe the acid away, otherwise it deals an additional D4/level Acid damage one round later. Each time the target suffers damage from this effect they must make a Ref save to prevent the damage from reoccuring the next round.


Wand of Fear
Char Level 1 Trigger Spell: Cause Fear
Effect: One creature within Short Range is gripped with a terrible fear. The target must make a Will save or become Frightened of the wielder for one round.

Char Level 5 Trigger Spell: Scare
Effect: Terror fills the heart of all creatures within a 10' burst out to Medium range. Anyone within the area must make a Will save or become Frightened of the wielder for 1 round / level.


Wand of Wild Growth
Char Level 1 Trigger Spell: Entangle
Effect: Plants burst from the ground to entrap one target within Short range. The target must make a Ref save or become Entangled for 1 round / level, anchored to their current square. The target can break free by making a DC15 Strength or Escape Artist check as a Full action.

Char Level 5 Trigger Spell: Plant Growth
Effect: Animated plants emerge from the ground in a 20' burst within Medium range. Movement through the area is at half speed and anyone within the area when it is created must make a Ref save or become Entangled in their current square. The plants remain for one round before withering and dying away.


Arcane Wand
Char Level 1 Trigger Spell: Detect Magic
Effect: The wielder can Detect Magic as per the spell by Concentrating whilst this wand is held.

Char Level 5 Trigger Spell: Dispel Magic
Effect: The wielder can attempt to nullify any single ongoing spell effect within Short range that they have previously identified with a Spellcraft roll. The wielder makes a dispel check using their Character level and if successful the spell effect is immediately ended.


MEDIUM WANDS


Wand of Hindering
Char Level 7 Trigger Spell: Slow
Effect: A 10' burst of magical energy shoots out to Medium range. Each target within the area must make a Will save or become Slowed as per the spell for 1 round / level.

Char Level 11 Trigger Spell: Hold Monster
Effect: Strands of arcane energy stream out to one creature within Medium range. The target must make a Will save or become Paralyzed for 1 round / level. At the end of each of their turns the target may make a new Will save to end this effect.


Wand of Force
Char Level 7 Trigger Spell: Telekinesis
Effect: A telekinetic force reaches out to any one target within Medium range. This force can either lift and manipulate an inanimate object weighing up to 25lbs/level for as long as you retain Concentration, or can strike one creature with a Trip or Bullrush attempt. Treat the force as a Large creature with a BaB equal to your level and Str 18.

Char Level 11 Trigger Spell: Wall of Force
Effect: A 10' x 10' flat plane of unbreakable, unmovable glowing force springs into being anywhere within Medium range. This plane must be unbroken when formed, and lasts until the wielder wills it to end, or another wall is created using this ability.


Wand of Inferno
Char Level 7 Trigger Spell: Delayed Blast Fireball
Effect: A 10' burst of flames shoots out to Medium range. This deals D6 Fire damage / level to everything in the area unless a Ref save is made to halve the damage. Anything failing this Ref save is also set On Fire.

Char Level 11 Trigger Spell: Incendiary Cloud
Effect: A 10' burst of red hot choking smoke shoots from the wand to land within Medium range. This smoke blocks line of sight and deals D6 Fire damage / level to everything in the area each turn unless a Fort save is passed to halve the damage. Any target failing the Fort save is also Nauseated for one round by the fumes.


Wand of Stone
Char Level 7 Trigger Spell: Soften Earth and Stone
Effect: A 10' square area of solid stone or earth within Medium range is turned to sticky mud to a depth of 5'. Each creature standing on the area must make a Ref save or become Entangled in their current square. Each round an affected creature may make a new save to escape the effect. Movement through the area is at half speed. This lasts until the mud naturally dries.

Char Level 11 Trigger Spell: Wall of Stone
Effect: The wielder creates a Wall of Stone as per the spell out to Medium range. This lasts until the caster wills it to crumble, or until another wall is created with this effect.


Wand of Thunderbolts
Char Level 7 Trigger Spell: Lightning Bolt
Effect: A bolt of lightning shoots in a straight line out to Medium range. This deals D6 Electricity damage / level to each target struck, unless a Ref save is passed to halve the damage. Any target failing the Ref save is also Blinded for one round by the flash.

Char Level 11 Trigger Spell: Chain Lightning
Effect: An arc of electricity lashes out to strike one target within Medium range. Treat this as a Ranged touch attack that deals D6 Electricity damage / level to one target. If the attack hits the jolt will attempt to leap to another target within Short range of the original - roll to hit again against a different target. Only one additional target per level can be struck per use of this ability, and no target can be struck more than once.


Wand of Curses
Char Level 7 Trigger Spell: Bestow Curse
Effect: One target within Medium range is affected by a curse of bad luck. The target suffers a -4 penalty to all attacks, saves, ability and skill rolls made within the next round.

Char Level 11 Trigger Spell: Baleful Polymorph
Effect: One target within Medium range is polymorphed into a 1HD animal unless they pass a Fort save. At the end of each of their turns the target may attempt another Fort save to end this effect.


Wand of Nightmares
Char Level 7 Trigger Spell: Evard's Black Tentacles
Effect: Rubbery black tentacles erupt from the ground to grapple one target within Medium range. Treat the tentacles as a Large creature with a base attack bonus equal to your caster level and a Strength score of 19 that deal D6 damage on a successful grapple check. The tentacles remain for 1 round/level or until the target breaks free.

Char Level 11 Trigger Spell: Confusion
Effect: Up to one target within Medium range is assaulted by confusing and nightmarish hallucinations. The target must make a Will save or become Confused for 1 round/level. At the end of each of their turns the target may attempt another Will save to end this effect.
_________________
Simplified Tome Armor. Tome item system and expanded Wish Economy rules.

"Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have found out the exact measure of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them, and these will continue till they are resisted with either words or blows, or with both. The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress."


Last edited by Red_Rob on Mon Mar 31, 2014 12:11 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Surgo
Duke


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 1887

PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Wand of Inferno: Says "Con save". Also that's potentially two saves for a lot of people, maybe better off collapsing both into one save?

Wand of Force level 7 seems strictly worse than Wand of Missiles level 5, despite being thematically similar.

Wand of Curses level 7 seems kind of crap. If it only lasts a round, is there a reason this needs to have a save at all? It's basically a 2x Shaken effect that eats up your standard action.
_________________
http://www.dnd-wiki.org -- the wiki
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Red_Rob
Prince


Joined: 17 Jul 2009
Posts: 2555

PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Surgo wrote:
Wand of Inferno: Says "Con save". Also that's potentially two saves for a lot of people, maybe better off collapsing both into one save?

Yeah, I'll change the wording to match the Wand of Thunderbolts effect.

Quote:
Wand of Force level 7 seems strictly worse than Wand of Missiles level 5, despite being thematically similar.

I did waver on this a little - I was thinking it does the most damage, no hit roll, no save, as a Force effect which means it will kill most level appropriate opposition in about 2 turns without any real defence. I guess I could drop the Wand of Missiles to cause Stunning and have the Wand of Force do a Daze?

Quote:
Wand of Curses level 7 seems kind of crap. If it only lasts a round, is there a reason this needs to have a save at all? It's basically a 2x Shaken effect that eats up your standard action.

Good call, I'll drop the save.

On a broader level do these seem about the right power level? I need to go through and give tags to some of these effects ([Mind Affection] [Compulsion] etc.). I'm working on some Greater wands at the moment that scale up to single target SoD's at level 17. Does that seem too much?
_________________
Simplified Tome Armor. Tome item system and expanded Wish Economy rules.

"Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have found out the exact measure of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them, and these will continue till they are resisted with either words or blows, or with both. The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Surgo
Duke


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 1887

PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

For the Wand of Force, maybe the damage should just be removed entirely. There's plenty of stuff that could be done with [Force] effects -- telekinetic combat maneuvers and whatnot come to mind.

The power level seems okay to me. I don't think tags are needed on any of these.
_________________
http://www.dnd-wiki.org -- the wiki
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Red_Rob
Prince


Joined: 17 Jul 2009
Posts: 2555

PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Fixed those issues and reworked the Wand of Force ability.

Regarding tags, I get the feeling people immune to Mind Affecting effects or Fear would be pretty pissed if they were affected by Wand abilities that mimicked those spells.
_________________
Simplified Tome Armor. Tome item system and expanded Wish Economy rules.

"Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have found out the exact measure of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them, and these will continue till they are resisted with either words or blows, or with both. The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
radthemad4
Duke


Joined: 18 Nov 2013
Posts: 2026

PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2014 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Red_Rob wrote:
Wands:
A wand is a wizard's equivalent of a magical weapon. As such they are instantly attuned by being wielded, and can be unattuned at will providing none of their effects are currently ongoing. A wand provides a number of Spell Like Abilities that can be activated by the wielder as a Standard Action. In order to activate a Wand ability the wielder's Character Level must equal the required level, and the Trigger Spell must be on their class spell list.
Would a Wizard 1, Fighter 4 with a Wand of Fire be able to use the level 5 effect? What if Evocation was a banned school for the Wizard?

Last edited by radthemad4 on Mon May 19, 2014 10:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
schpeelah
Knight-Baron


Joined: 08 Jun 2008
Posts: 504

PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2014 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

radthemad4 wrote:
Would a Wizard 1, Fighter 4 with a Wand of Fire be able to use the level 5 effect? What if Evocation was a banned school for the Wizard?
Yes in the first case, no in the second.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Gaming Den Forum Index -> It's My Own Invention... All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Page 4 of 5

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group